Episode 62 with Jeff Street

Welcome to episode 62 of Self-Defense Gun Stories. Firearms instructor Jeff Street joins us this week. Together, we report and analyze examples of armed civilian defense. Were these gun owners lucky, or were they prepared? How would you do in their situation?

Introduction- Rob- I’m Rob Morse and welcome to episode 62 of Self-Defense Gun Stories.  This show is for  people who think they might want a gun for self-defense, and those who already have one.  We’re joined this week by self-defense instructor Jeff Street.

It’s great to talk with you again, Jeff.  What have you been up to?

 

Jeff- Hi, Rob.  Hi to our new listeners, and welcome back to our regular listeners. We report and analyze three examples of armed civilian defense.  We hope you use these reports as part of your exercise program.. to exercise your imagination today so you can defend the people you care about tomorrow.  Please leave us a message on our facebook page with your questions or comments.

Jeff- Our first story took place last week in Decatur, Alabama.

Rob- First story-  Are you armed at work? You work on the back dock of a roofing supply company.  You’re around construction and material handling equipment all day long as you move materials and set up customer’s orders.  It isn’t unusual to yell so you can hear each other over the noise of the equipment, but this yelling is different.  One of your customers is yelling at one of your co-workers.  You stop to see what is happening.  You see the customer pull a firearm and point the gun at one of your co-workers.  He isn’t showing off the gun, he is threatening to hurt your co-worker.  You draw your own gun and fire twice at the attacker.  Then you’re the one doing the shouting as you yell for someone to call the police.

Jeff, what would you tell your students if they were in this situation?

 

Jeff- This may be an example of involving yourself in the conflicts of others.   We don’t know all the details.  Was the employee the only one threatened by the customer?  How well do you know the involved coworker?  Are you willing to put your life in danger for them?  Can you assist without putting other coworkers in greater danger?

Rob- What do we need to know before we get involved?

Jeff- You need to figure these things out ahead of time.  Make a list of the people you would be willing to die for or spend the rest of your life in jail for.  My wife Robyn is on that list.  The world will miss her more than me.  Putting myself in jeopardy for someone else will potentially deprive my wife of me.

Rob- Should you protect strangers in a movie theater, but not in the mall?  Should you protect your mother in law, but not your brother in law?

Rob- What did the responder do correctly?

Jeff- Our second story happened last week in La Porte, Texas.

Rob- Second Story-  Are you armed at home in the evening?  Your daughter wanted to buy a cell phone.  She found a used one at a price she wanted to pay.  She agreed to meet the buyer at a public place.  The police have an area of their parking lot set up with cameras for trades like this.  They seller was late, so your daughter agreed to meet the seller at your home.

Your daughter asked to see the phone and make sure it worked before she handed over the money. Your wife was standing nearby, and the buyer grabbed your wife.  He grabbed your wife  by the hair and demanded the money.  Your wife yelled and you looked from inside your house.  Your daughter yelled that she’d go get the money from inside the house.  You saw the stranger with a gun pointed at your wife’s head.  You walked to the front steps and leaped at the buyer, knocking him away from your wife.  Rather than run away, the attacker again demanded the money.  You said you’d get it.  You walked inside and grabbed your handgun.  The attacker raised his gun as you came outside.  You shot him once in the low- center chest.  Now the attacker ran away.  The driver waiting in his car sped away with the injured attacker.  Now you call police.

Jeff- Late buyer should be a red flag.  We never invite strangers to our home.  Would have been better is someone involved in the exchange on the good guy side of the balance sheet had been armed.  

Rob-  When is lethal force justified, when is it necessary, and when is it advantageous?

Jeff- The criminal was armed.

Rob- That shows he threatened us with lethal force.  When should we shoot?

Jeff-  Low center chest was not an instant stop shot.  At that point. our violent criminal actor was convinced that retreat was a good option.   

Rob- I like it that he went hand to hand rather than stand there when his wife was threatened.

 

 

Jeff- Our third story happened last week in Chicago, Illinois.

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Rob- Third story- Are you armed when you walk to your car?  

You had to get something from your car.  It is parked on the street.  It is almost noon, and two men approach you as you reach for the door.  One of the men has a gun.  They demand your car keys and wallet.  You are licensed to carry a concealed handgun in Chicago.  You’re armed.  You reach for your keys and then present your firearm.  You shoot the armed robber.  He drops his gun.  Both men run away.  You stop firing and call the police.

Jeff-  When approaching your car, you should give an extra look around.  Maybe they would not have selected you.  This is Chicago and they most likely believe that you are not armed.  I will not ever live in Chicago or any other gun unfriendly city.

Rob- What if he saw them.  What should he do next?

 

Jeff- Distraction worked.  Reaching into your pocket for the keys or putting them on the car might have diverted their attention and slowed their reaction time.  That gave the defender more time to act.

Rob- It sounds like only one of the attackers had a firearm.

Jeff- Notice that in the last case and this one both perpetrators were not immediately immobilized from a handgun wound (like in the movies).  Calling the police is very important.  We recommend the say little approach.  In order to accomplish the say little approach I recommend vigorous listening to SDGS and thinking about what you would tell 911, the arriving police, and your attorney after the fact.

 

 

Exit-  Rob- That wraps up this episode. Jeff, thank you for helping me today.  Where can our listeners learn more about you?

Jeff-  My wife and I teach in Naples Florida, and our listeners can learn more about us at Step by Step Gun Training.com.  We provide custom training courses as well as weekly group classes.  Our listeners can also find us on Facebook.

Rob- Please leave your comments and questions on the podcast facebook page.  

Jeff-  If you liked this show, then you’ll like the other podcasts on the Self-defense radio network.  We create this podcast under a creative commons license, so please share them with a friend.  It has been a couple months since we received a rating on on I-Tunes, so we can use your help.

Rob- I’m Rob Morse.  We’ll be back next week with more Self-Defense Gun Stories.

Please support the Crime Prevention Research Center at
http://crimeresearch.org/

 

Episode 61 with David Cole

Welcome to episode 61 of Self-Defense Gun Stories. Firearms instructor David Cole joins us this week. Together, we report and analyze examples of armed civilian defense. Were these gun owners lucky, or were they prepared? How would you do in their situation?

Introduction- Rob- I’m Rob Morse.  Welcome to episode 61 of Self-Defense Gun Stories.  This show is for  people who think they might want a firearm for self-defense, and those who already have one.  We’re joined this week by self-defense instructor David Cole.

Hi, David.  How have you been?

David- Hi, Rob.  Seems like just yesterday we were hanging out at the NRA Annual Meetings & Exhibits in Atlanta. It sure was a great show this year.

Hi to our new listeners, and welcome back to our regular listeners. We report and analyze three examples of armed civilian defense.  We hope you use these reports as part of your exercise program.. to exercise your imagination today so you can defend the people you care about tomorrow.  Please leave us a message on our facebook page with your questions or comments.

David- Our first story took place last week in Jacksonville, Florida.

Rob- First story-  Are you armed when you arrive home?  You return home at about 10 in the morning.  Unfortunately, a robber is waiting for you.  He follows you to the door and forces his way inside.  He then tries to take your purse and you phone.  You fight.  You grab your handgun and shoot your attacker.  He runs from your home.  You slam the door and call the police.  The police arrest your attacker when he called for medical attention.

David- Fortunately, our good citizen was prepared…she had a gun handy and was ready to use it.

Rob-  We can’t tell how she got her gun.  What do you tell your students?

David- She also did the right thing by calling 911 and reporting the incident.

David- Our second story happened last week in Memphis, Tennessee.

Rob- Second Story-  Are you armed at work late at night.  You work at a liquor store.  It is never completely safe.  Yesterday, the police visited your store to warn you about a series of liquor store robberies in the area.  It is 11 at night when a man walks in wearing a ski mask.  It isn’t cold outside.  The masked man presents a gun and starts yelling at you to get down on the floor.  You draw your pistol and shoot your attacker several times.  You back away and call police.  No one else was injured.  The FBI links the attacker to eight other robberies.

David- This one was kind of obvious, but sometimes it can be difficult to see trouble coming. But a guy in a ski mask in a liquor store at 11 PM is most likely not your friend.

Rob- Talk about a risky occupation.  The police told him to be ready..and he was.

David- The clerk was prepared with a gun of his own, and did what he had to do to defend himself.

Rob- Should we do what a criminal demands?

David- That’s a tough call, and the only 100% correct answer is “it depends.” But compliance doesn’t increase our chances of going home unhurt. There are plenty of examples of robberies where the victim gave the robber what they demanded, and were shot anyway.  My personal opinion is that you are taking a big chance when you count on mercy from someone willing to threaten your life for your purse or wallet.

David- Our third story happened last week in Arlington, Texas.

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Rob- Third story- Are you armed when you visit a sports bar?  You’re sitting in a sports bar with family and friends when you hear the yelling.  A stranger is yelling at everyone.  The restaurant manager goes over to talk the the man.  The stranger is upset, and the manager is trying to calm him down.  The stranger yells louder, then he pulls a gun from his pocket and shoots the manager.  You tell your wife to get on the floor.  You crouch down and draw your own firearm.  People are running wildly.  The attacker is shooting towards people as they run for the front door.  The crowd thins for a second and you take your shot.  The attacker stops shooting.  You and your family leave the scene, but you don’t go far.  You know you have to talk to police.  They say the attacker had two guns and two knives on him.  The manager died at the scene..along with the attacker.  The only other injury was one customer he cut himself on the broken glass as he left.

David-  This one had the potential to be much, much worse..but for a good guy with a gun. And it seems like this week’s theme could easily be Jeff Cooper’s first rule of gunfighting: “Have a gun.”

Rob-

David- Laws regarding carry in bars vary from state to state

Exit- Rob- That wraps up this episode. David, thank you for helping me today.  Where can our listeners learn more about you?

David- Our listeners can find me at

Rob- Our listeners can share their thoughts with us by leaving a message on the podcast facebook page.  

David-  If you liked this show, then you’ll like the other podcasts on the Self-defense radio network.  We create this podcast under a creative commons license, so please share them with a friend, and give us a rating on I-Tunes.

Rob- I’m Rob Morse.  We’ll be back next week with more Self-Defense Gun Stories.

Learn more at SAF Training Division.

Episode 60 with Elizabeth Hautman

Welcome to episode 60 of Self-Defense Gun Stories. Firearms instructor Elizabeth Hautman joins us this week. Together, we report and analyze examples of armed civilian defense. Were these gun owners lucky, or were they prepared? How would you do in their situation?

Introduction- Rob- I’m Rob Morse, and welcome to episode 60 of Self-Defense Gun Stories.  This podcast is for people who think they might want a gun for self-defense, and those who already have one.  We’re joined this week by self-defense instructor Elizabeth Hautman.

Hi, Elizabeth.  You’ve been busy.

Elizabeth- Hi, Rob.  

Appleseed.  Teaching new firearms students.

Hi to our new listeners, and welcome back to our regular listeners. We report and analyze three examples of armed civilian defense.  We hope you use these reports as part of your exercise program.. to exercise your imagination today so you can defend the people you care about tomorrow.  Please leave us a message on our facebook page with your questions or comments.

Elizabeth- Our first story took place last week near Palm Beach, Florida

Rob- First story-  Are you armed at home?  Your teenage son and his friends are watching TV and playing video games late at night.  They hear a knock on the door.  They open the front door to see who it is.  Two armed men push their way into your home.  One of the teenagers runs the the bathroom and slams the door behind him.  The robbers shoot through the bathroom door.

You hear the shouts, the slams and the gunfire.  You walk out of the master bedroom with your handgun drawn.  You fire at the armed intruders.  They run from the apartment.

One of your son’s friends was shot in the abdomen.  You call police and emergency medical services.  The medics take the teenager to the hospital.  While he is at the hospital, into the emergency room walks the intruder you shot.  Police arrest both intruders.

Elizabeth-   don’t open the door, but the intruders showed up at the hospital, maybe the kids at your home were hanging around with the wrong crowd.  

Rob-  Where did the gun come from?  How was the gun stored?

Elizabeth-  do your kids know what to do if there is an intruder?  Practice a plan, like a fire drill   

Rob-  You talk about that with your students?

Elizabeth- Our second story happened last week in Clarksburg, West Virginia.

Rob- Second Story-  Are you armed at work late at night?  You work as a night clerk at the Sutton Inn.  You help travelers with what they need.  A clean place to sleep.  Sometimes they need a toothbrush if they forgot something at home.  It’s been quiet this morning until a stranger walks through the doors.  He’s in his mid-twenties, wearing a black hoodie, jeans with sequins and wearing earrings.  His hands are in front of his face.  The stranger says, “Don’t make me pull my piece.  Just give me the money.”  You present your firearm and point it at the robber’s chest.  The robber turns and runs before you can pull the trigger.  You come around the counter, but don’t follow the robber outside.  Then you remember to call the police.  You tell police which way the robber ran.  The police arrest the robber at a nearby motel.  The charges filed against your attacker carry a 10 year minimum sentence.

Elizabeth- I wonder where the clerk had the gun?  Holster, pocket, a mount under the counter, in a drawer?  On body is best,  

Rob- Out of reach is out if use.

Elizabeth-

Rob- Was the clerk justified to pull the trigger? Yes he was justified, and he didn’t need to.

Elizabeth-  the clerk was well trained and exercised great self control.  In that the clerk had the gun easy to draw, the clerk had training.  I tell my students when they are in fear of an innocent person going to the morgue or the hospital, that is when to pull the trigger.  Not if someone is on your porch, or running away.

Elizabeth- Our third story happened last week in Grady, Oklahoma.

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Rob- Third story-  Are you armed when you’re at home?  You asked the judge for a protective order so your ex-boyfriend would leave you alone. The judge gave you the order, and said there was to be no contact between you and your ex-boyfriend.  Now your ex is calling again.  He wants the title to the car.  He demands you give him your credit card.  You told him to go away.  He threatened to kill you.  A neighbor called the police to say they saw him near your house.

Now he’s outside.  You grab your rifle, walk out on the porch and tell him to leave.  He starts to say something, but changes his mind and runs back to his car when he hears the sirens on the police cars.  The cops were right behind him as he drives away.  The police arrest him and put him in jail.

Rob- Tell me about opening the door.

Elizabeth- she didn’t think it through.

Elizabeth-  Good that the neighbors know about your problem.  They were the first to call the police.  I have given this advice to some of my students who may have been facing the same situation.  

Elizabeth-  Keep the door between you and trouble.  Always.  Why she grabbed her rifle and went outside doesn’t make sense.  I do get it.  You want him to go away, but in the cases we are often dealing with crazy.  It also builds the victim’s case if the bad guy has to break into the domicile.

Exit-  Rob- That wraps up this episode. Elizabeth, thank you for helping me today.  Where can our listeners learn more about you?

Elizabeth- I instruct in Colorado Springs.  I teach small classes at my private range in Black Forest.  Students can contact me at Colorado Boots Firearms Instruction.

Rob- Our listeners can share their thoughts with us by leaving a message on the podcast facebook page.  

Elizabeth-  If you liked this show, then you’ll like the other podcasts on the Self-defense radio network.  We create this podcast under a creative commons license, so please share them with a friend, and give us a rating on I-Tunes.

Rob- I’m Rob Morse.  We’ll be back next week with more Self-Defense Gun Stories.

Listen to Gun Freedom Radio at http://gunfreedomradio.com

Episode 59 with Ben Branam

Welcome to episode 59 of Self-Defense Gun Stories. Firearms instructor Ben Branam joins us this week. Together, we report and analyze examples of armed civilian defense. Were these gun owners lucky, or were they prepared? How would you do in their situation?

 

Introduction- Rob- Welcome to episode 59 of Self-Defense Gun Stories.  This show is for  people who think they might want a gun for self-defense, and those who already have one.  I’m Rob Morse and we’re joined this week by self-defense instructor Ben Branam.

How have you been, Mister Branam?

Ben- Hi, Rob.  Hi to our new listeners, and welcome back to our regular listeners. We report and analyze three examples of armed civilian defense.  We hope you use these reports as part of your exercise program.. to exercise your imagination today so you can defend the people you care about tomorrow.  Please leave us a message on our facebook page with your questions or comments.

Our first story took place last week in Petersburg, Virginia.

First story-  Do you have a gun nearby when you are sleeping in your bedroom?  It’s late in the morning, and you’re lying in bed.  The first thing you hear is someone smashing in your front door.  A few minutes go by and then a man pushes into your bedroom with a mask over his face and a gun in his hand.  You roll out of bed and grab your purse.  You point your gun at the intruder and fire one shot.  He lurches to the side and runs out the door.  You call police.

Ben- The front door was locked.  That is good.

Rob-  The sound of the breaking door acted as an alarm.  Why didn’t the victim do something after they heard their door broken in?

Ben- They had a gun.  That’s good.  But they didn’t have a plan.

Rob- What should they have done?

Ben- I teach my students to lock the door, grab their gun and their phone and call police.

Rob- Good plan.

Ben- The homeowner did take action.  She moved when her bedroom door was opened.  I want our listeners to be ready before that happens.

Rob- It is hard to make a plan the first minute you wake up.

Ben- We act smart in the minute because we thought about the situation ahead of time.

Ben- Our second story took place last week in Lawton, Oklahoma.

Second Story-  Are you armed at home? This is scary.  You’re sleeping in your bed.  You wake up to find your ex-boyfriend standing at the food of the bed.  He’s holding a gun in his hand and threatens you.  You reach under your pillow and grab your handgun.  You point the gun at the intruder and press the trigger.  Then you roll out of bed and call the police.

Ben- It doesn’t say if her attacker fell down, or if he ran.  The first thing to do is to get to a safe place.  That might mean to lock the door and hide behind the bed.  It might mean to run to a neighbor’s house.

Rob- It would be great to think about that now and share your plan with your family.

Ben- Good on this lady for having a gun with her.

Rob- Did she out-draw her attacker?

Ben- That, or tactical patience.  That means she might have waited until she had an advantage.  Better yet, if she locked her front door, her bedroom door, and if she had an alarm.  If she had enough money for a gun then she had enough money for an alarm.

Ben- Our third story took place last week in Tacoma, Washington.

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Third story- Are you armed when you’re at home?  You’re sleeping at home in your bed when you hear someone outside.  You grab your gun and investigate.  Someone broke into your porch.  You shout for them to leave.  The intruder breaks into your home.  You shoot him and call the police.  There were two other people in the home at the time. No one else in the house was injured.

Ben-  A third of us will be victims at some time.  This homeowner was prepared, but he needed a little more training.  When someone invites you to a fight, don’t.

Rob- Where should we put a gun when we sleep at night?

 

Exit-  Rob- That wraps up this episode. Ben, thank you for helping me today.  Where can our listeners learn more about you?

Ben- Our listeners can find me at Modern Self Protection.com.  I live in San Antonio, and most of my classes are in central Texas.  Listeners can see my complete class schedule at my website, and they can also listen to my podcast.

Rob- Our listeners can share their thoughts with us by leaving a message on the podcast facebook page.  

Ben-  If you liked this show, then you’ll like the other podcasts on the Self-defense radio network.  We create this podcast under a creative commons license, so please share them with a friend, and give us a rating on I-Tunes.

Rob- I’m Rob Morse.  We’ll be back in two weeks with more Self-Defense Gun Stories.

 

Episode 58 with Jenna Meek

Welcome to episode 58 of Self-Defense Gun Stories. Firearms instructor Jenna Meek joins us this week. Together, we report and analyze examples of armed civilian defense. Were these gun owners lucky, or were they prepared? How would you do in their situation?

Introduction- Rob- Welcome to episode 58 of Self-Defense Gun Stories.  This show is for  people who think they might want a gun for self-defense, and those who already have one.  I’m Rob Morse and we’re joined this week by self-defense instructor Jenna Meek.

Hi, Jenna.  How have you been?

Jenna- Hi, Rob.  I’ve been busy as usual!  ‘Tis the season to get back to the range after a long winter break, which has been great!  Lots of private classes on the calendar and we’re excited to host John Farnam of Defense Training International at the end of the month!

Rob- One of our listeners wrote in.  Greg said,

“for those who forgot to lock the front door or just like the added feature of it, about a year ago we had to replace our front door lock, so we went with the auto locking deadbolt by Schlage, it automatically locks after 30sec and beeps if someone fiddles with the door.

I’m always Armed at home or out for that matter, and that is from Greg.

I posted a link to that lock in our show notes- http://consumer.schlage.com/products/pages/productdetails.aspx?ModelNumber=FE575%20PLY%20619%20FLA

Jenna- Locks have to be set, alarms have to be turned on, and guns have to be worn or they aren’t much good.

That tip is from a regular listener, Greg.  Let me take a minute to say hi to our new listeners.  We report and analyze three examples of armed civilian defense each week.  I hope we inspire you to defend the people you care about.  If you have questions or want to hear more, then please leave us a message on our facebook page.

Jenna- Our first story took place this month in Ohio.

First story-  Is your gun accessible late at night when you’re at home? It is almost midnight on a Friday night in Cleveland, Ohio. You’re in your room upstairs when you hear someone else in your house.  You hear them opening and closing the drawers and the closet doors downstairs.  You grab your handgun and walk downstairs.  You see an intruder, and tell him not to move.  He moves.  You shoot him.  The intruder runs to your ground floor bathroom and locks himself inside.  The robber opens the bathroom window and climbs out.  You recognize the robber as a young man who works in a local pizza parlor.  You call the police.  The police open the bathroom door, but the robber is gone.  He bled all over the bathroom and the police are looking for him.

Of course you had your gun.  You have your Ohio Concealed Carry permit.  You used to work at a barbershop, and the owner required barbers to get their concealed carry licenses for their own protection..

Jenna- Locks?  We just talked about the importance of locking your doors.  Were the doors to this home locked?  How was the gun stored?  It sounds like it was easy enough to get to, so that’s half the battle.  Why go downstairs unless you have children or people with bedrooms down stairs and maybe you thought that the other family members might be the ones going through stuff down there.  In that case, maybe the homeowner was going to see who was up and about late at night…  We all know how much I love the option of sheltering in place and calling for help, I will reiterate, that is always the best option if it is practical for your particular situation.  

Rob- If the robber is armed, you just walked into a gunfight.  You could lose.

 

Jenna- Our second story took place in Arkansas.

Second Story-  Are you armed on the street. You’re walking down a residential street in a small housing subdivision about 30 miles north of Little Rock.  You hear someone shout and you turn to see them.  Two men are fighting.  One of them falls to the ground.  The other one, he isn’t hitting him.  He is stabbing him.  You yell for the attacker to stop.  You draw your firearm and point it at the attacker.  You call police.  The police arrest the attacker and EMTs take the wounded man to the hospital.

You wonder if you should have gotten involved. You’re a Lieutenant in the United States Air Force Reserves stationed in Little Rock.  You wonder what your commanding officer might say.  The Austin police chief said your actions saved a life. The Lieutenant is a perfect example of a responsible concealed carry permit holder.  He acted heroically in the face of extreme danger and avoided a tragedy.”  You hope your CO believes the chief.

Jenna- Protecting a third party is physically and legally dangerous. I have hundreds of hours of professional training under my belt and I would have to think long and hard before I were to jump in the middle of a situation like this.  Not to be harsh, but I carry to protect myself and those that I love.  Risking my liberty for a third party could very likely hurt me and my family.  I am all for helping others, but at what expense?

Rob- Police tell us again and again that they stop a family fight, and then the victim refuses to testify.

Jenna-  I also need to know the ENTIRE situation before I am going to jump in.  We’ve heard of countless examples of cases of mistaken identities and third parties getting involved when they should not have.  For example the undercover officer taking down a drug dealer.  In this situation the cop was almost shot because of mistaken identity.  Not something I want on my conscience.

 

Jenna- Our third story took place in Iowa.

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Rob- Third story- Are you armed when you’re at home?  It happened before when you were away.  People broke into one of your family homes.  Now, you’re sleeping in the home a few nights a month.  Tonight you’re sleeping in the basement bedroom where it is cool and comfortable in Des Moines.  You hear someone come downstairs.  It is just before midnight, and you grab your gun and turn on the lights.  There is a woman standing in your house and she is wearing a headlamp and gloves.

You tell her to get out and push her upstairs.  You’re 71 years old.  When you’re outside, the woman turns on you and starts to choke you.  You shoot her once in the abdomen.  Then you call police.

Jenna-  Locks?  This seems to be a common theme this week.  Please lock your doors, people.  

Rob- Where did he keep his gun while he slept downstairs?

Jenna- I have to think that a woman wearing a headlamp and gloves is up to no good shortly before midnight in a house that she should not be in.  

Rob-  Yes, but is she a threat?

Jenna- I like that the homeowner started off with a degree of force that he felt necessary to protect himself, physically removing the woman by pushing her.  Maybe he should not have gone outside with her at that point.  I also believe that by the time he was being choked that deadly force was an appropriate response.  I am also guessing that there was enough disparity of force (woman was much younger and maybe also more physically sound) to warrant deadly force at that point.

Rob- Should we call police first?  I don’t know.  I was never trained to point a gun at someone as I walked through my house and forced them upstairs.  Are they a threat at that point?

 

Exit-  Rob- That wraps up this episode. Jenna, thank you for helping me today.  Where can our listeners learn more about you?

Jenna- Listeners can contact me Carry On Colorado Dot Com.  I also have my new book called “Calling the Shots” on Amazon.

Rob- Our listeners can share their thoughts with us by leaving a message on the podcast facebook page.  

Jenna-  If you liked this show, then you’ll like the other podcasts on the Self-defense radio network.  We create this podcast under a creative commons license, so please share them with a friend, and give us a rating on I-Tunes.

Rob- I’m Rob Morse.  We’ll be back next week with more Self-Defense Gun Stories.

Learn more at SAF Training Division.

Episode 57 with Tony Simon

Welcome to episode 57 of Self-Defense Gun Stories. Firearms instructor Tony Simon joins us this week. Together, we report and analyze examples of armed civilian defense. Were these gun owners lucky, or were they prepared? How would you do if you were in their situation?

Introduction- Rob- Welcome to episode 57 of Self-Defense Gun Stories.  This show is for  people who think they might want a gun for self-defense, and those who already have one.  I’m Rob Morse and we’re joined this week by self-defense instructor Tony Simon.

Hi, Tony.  How have you been?

 

Tony- Hi, Rob.  

Hi to our new listeners, and welcome back to our regular listeners. We report and analyze three examples of armed civilian defense each week.  I hope we inspire you to defend the people you care about.  If you have questions or want to hear more, then please leave us a message on our facebook page.

Our first story took place this month in North Carolina.

 

Rob- First story-  Are you armed at a bingo parlor.  You run a bingo parlor in Winston Salem.  People want to gamble at all hours, so you’re open all day long.  Usually it is quiet in the early morning.  Usually, but not this day.  Two men enter your business at 5 in the morning.  They walk up to you and say “Give me the money.”

At 63 three years old, you feel too old for this.  These two robbers are in their 20s.  Then they pull out pistols and threaten you and your customers.  One of the robbers waves his pistol in your face.  You are armed.  You draw your handgun and shoot the robber closest to you.  Both robbers turn and run.  One shoots you in the shoulder as he leaves.

The police arrive in a few minutes.  EMTs take you to the hospital to have your shoulder bandaged up.  They say the robber you shot died a few blocks from your bingo parlor.

Tony: Have a gun.  Good, the manager did.  Good for him.

The manager was willing to save his own life and the life of his customers.  Again, that is a good decision that he made a long time ago.

Rob- So you think the manager had thought about this ahead of time.

Tony- I do.  He was armed at work.. Every day.  He also did something else right.

I want you to move as you present your firearm if the situation dictates that you do so.  I think the manager moved as he was presenting his weapon and that is why the robber shot him in the shoulder rather than the chest.

Rob- It is always the right time to move.

Tony- Right, and just because you’re shot doesn’t mean you are out of the fight.

Here is what we don’t know and it’s really important.  You don’t have to draw your gun the instant you see his gun.  You can, but you don’t have to.  Sometimes it is better to wait your turn.  Maybe the robbers will turn their attention to the cash drawer or the other customers and give you a chance to act.

Either way, once you see your opportunity, you have to move and act to end the fight.

Rob- I noticed that the manager did not chase the robbers out of the store.

Tony- He did the right thing.  Leave the criminal to the police once you and your customers are safe.

Rob- Is there more?

Tony- That’s enough for now.  Have a gun, have a plan, take your turn, and know when to stop.

Rob- You make it sound so simple.

Tony- It is simple, but it isn’t easy.  There is more to say, but we’ll save it for another example.

Tony- Our second story took place in Florida.

Rob- Second Story-  Are you armed at home.  The first thing you hear are your dogs barking.  They wake you up.  They keep at it so you roll out of bed, put on your pants, and grab your firearm.  It’s early morning and you walk into the main part of your home in Orlando, Florida.  You’re 65 years old and your house has been broken into four times before.  The dogs are barking at a stranger standing in your enclosed porch.

You tell the stranger to leave.  He says he’s looking for a landscape job.  You say you don’t have one and that he has to go.  The stranger opens the door and pushes past you into your home.

You yell for the man to leave.  He looks around the house and then runs at you.  To quote from the police report, “He started coming at me, running at me, so I pulled out my gun and I shot him..”

The homeowner held the suspect until police arrived.

Tony- The victim had his pistol in his pants pocket when he went to answer the door. He was following the POGO principle, Pants On Gun On

I want our listeners to put their gun away at night so they can access it quickly and safely.  I want them to wear a holster and put on their gun every morning when they put on their pants or skirt.  POGO, pants on gun on.

Rob- This story is from florida.  Lots of citizens have their carry permits there.

Tony- I think this man carried every day.  Also, he used verbal commands.  He tried to back away from the confrontation.  The intruder brought the fight to him.  That makes the case very easy to explain and it may keep you out of court.

Rob-  You’re saying the homeowner was pushed into this fight.  What about after the fight. Is it easy to hold someone at gunpoint?

Tony- It is dangerous.  The intruder was shot in the hip and he didn’t going anywhere.  You won’t know the condition of our attacker after you defend yourself.

Don’t stand there with your finger on the trigger if you’re not going to shoot someone.  Your weapon should be at the low ready position or the high ready position.  Your finger should be off the trigger.

Back away from the intruder.  Maybe you holster your firearm to call the police.  Maybe not if you don’t feel safe.  Reholster when you hear the sirens.

Rob-  And the only warning the homeowner had was his dogs barking.

Tony- and then he did the right thing.  He had a gun when he had an unexpected fight with a stranger in his home.

Rob- Anything else?

Tony- Our third story took place in Louisiana.

Please support Buckeye Firearms Foundation at https://www.buckeyefirearmsfoundation.org/

Third story- Are you armed when you are driving your car for Uber? It is one in the morning and you’re driving for Uber in New Orleans.  You dropped off a passenger a few minutes ago and you’re looking at your phone to see if anyone else needs a ride.  Two men pull open the doors of your car and get in.  They have guns, and the guns are pointed at you.  They say drive, so you drive.  A couple blocks later they tell you to get out of your car.  You stop the car and get out.  You’re armed.  You shoot the robber closest to you.  Both robbers turn and run.

You call the police.

Tony-  Remember when I said that self-defense was simple.

You’re innocent.  You didn’t start a fight, they did.
Your life is in danger, they have guns pointed at you.
You face an immediate threat, you can be dead any second.
You can’t avoid the threat when it is sitting right next to you.

Those are the conditions you need to morally and legally use lethal force in self-defense.  When you defend yourself is up to you.

You won’t have time to learn about that when it is happening, but you will have time to recognize that situation if you already thought about it.  Let me say that again so you can look it up and study it.

The threat is dangerous, immediate, and unavoidable.

Rob- So the driver didn’t have to spend time wondering if he should protect himself.

Tony- Don’t spend the rest of your life wondering if you should save yourself.  Think about it now so you can use the rest of your life staying alive.

Rob- It isn’t a good idea when robbers tell you to go with them.

Tony- That is called abduction and kidnapping.  Add that to felony assault and robbery.

Tony- This driver was pretty cool.  He had guns pointed at him and he didn’t panic.  He waited his turn and then brought the fight to his attackers.  He did a great job.

Rob- The driver had his gun with him in a holster, or at least it wasn’t stuffed in the glove compartment.

Tony- Please carry on body.

Rob- Do you talk about this with your students?

Tony- Every week.  And being from New Jersey, we have our own examples.

Exit- Rob- That wraps up this episode. Tony, thank you for helping me today.  Where can our listeners learn more about you?

Tony-  I teach safety and armed-self defense courses in New Jersey.  Our listeners can contact me on Facebook at Simon Says Train or at The Second is for Everyone and SimonSaysTrain on Instagram.  My classes are listed at BlackBagResources.com

Rob- Our listeners can share their thoughts with us by leaving a message on the podcast facebook page.  

Tony-  If you liked this show, then you’ll like the other podcasts on the Self-defense radio network.  We create this podcast under a creative commons license, so please share them with a friend, and give us a rating on I-Tunes.

Rob- I’m Rob Morse.  We’ll be back next week with more Self-Defense Gun Stories.

Give Lloyd a listen at http://www.armedlutheran.us/

Episode 56 with Amber Kunau

Welcome to episode 56 of Self-Defense Gun Stories. Firearms instructor Amber Kunau joins us this week. Together, we report and analyze examples of armed civilian defense. Were these gun owners lucky, or were they prepared?

Introduction- Rob– Welcome to episode 56 of Self-Defense Gun Stories.  This show is for  people who think they might want a gun for self-defense, and those who already have one.  I’m Rob Morse and we’re joined this week by self-defense instructor Amber Kunau.

Hi, Amber.  How have you been?

Amber- Hi, Rob.  I’ve been busy with work and family, but its a good busy.

 

Hi to our new listeners, and welcome back to our regular listeners. We report and analyze three examples of armed civilian defense each week.  I hope we inspire you to defend the people you care about.  If you have questions or want to hear more, then please leave us a message on our facebook page.

Our first story took place this month in Alabama.

Rob- First story-  Are you armed at home?  This time you hear a noise downstairs.  It’s just after 1 in the morning and you recognize the sound of your downstairs windows being forced open.  You live in a suburb of Birmingham, Alabama.  You lived here for the last 21 years.  The neighborhood has changed and your house has been robbed 13 times in the last ten months.  You’re 79 years old and you hear the two robbers coming upstairs from the basement.  They search the other two bedrooms on the upper floor of your house.  That is when you grab your firearm.  One of the robbers enters your bedroom and says, “Don’t move.  Don’t move, nigger.”

You move.  You shoot the robber one time in the chest.  Then you walk to the top of the stairs and chased the second robber from your home.  The second robber shoots at you as he runs from your home.  His bullet grazes your ankle.  You call police.  The first robber is dead on your floor.  The emergency medical responders take you to the hospital and they bandage the wound on your ankle.

This is the 14th time people broke into your home.  You tell the police you’ve become a prisoner in your own home because people keep breaking in and stealing your possessions.  You tell the police, “I hate that boy dead, but I don’t hate I shot him.”

Police officials say you won’t face charges since you were defending yourself from an armed invader at night.

Amber- We have disparity of force.  Multiple robbers.  Young men attacked a single older man.

Rob-  Amber, the news reports made it sound like the victim suddenly had a gun.  His gun did not materialize out of thin air.  What did he have to do to get his gun?

Amber-  near, ready, secure.  I keep mine in a locked compartment with a combination lock.  I practice opening it every day when I dress and put on my gun.

Rob- He heard multiple people in his home.  He shot one of them.  He then walked out of his bedroom.  He was also wounded.  That is a tough situation.  What does the victim have to juggle next.

Amber- night time, experience has proven that he will get robbed or attacked, be careful what you say to the police

Rob-  It might sound like we’re criticizing him for leaving his room.  What did the victim do correctly?

Amber- He stayed in his bedroom and shot the robber when there was a clear threat to his life.

Rob- Are those the high points?

Amber- Our second story took place in Detroit.

Rob- Are you armed when you’re in your apartment at 8 in the morning on a weekday?  You’ve only lived here for a few months.  You had to leave your old place because you have a stalker.  He beat you.  Now, your ex-boyfriend won’t leave you alone.  He’s already found this new place.  In earlier incidents at this appartment, your stalker broke your windows and kicked in your garage door.   This morning, you hear someone outside the front of your apartment.  He’s here again, and calling from the front door.  You call to your brother who is staying with you.  Your stalker kicks in the front door.  He’s armed.  Your brother draws his firearm and shoots the intruder several times in the chest.  The intruder drops his gun and drops to the ground.  You call police.

The police are convinced your stalker intended to kill you since he came armed and left his car running on the street in front of your apartment.  Thank god your brother had a gun.

Amber- This story is unusual and ordinary.  I’m glad we found this story of a domestic violence victim defending herself.  We don’t see that often enough.  What we do see all the time is that if you need a gun then you need it right now.  There was no time to go to the back bedroom, open a gun safe, load a magazine, load your gun, and then walk to the front of the apartment.  I see students who want to protect themselves but have not taken that last step to go armed.

It looks like the victim’s brother carried a gun, so rather than learn to carry herself, she borrowed him.

Rob-  Borrowing an armed relative is a temporary solution at best.

Amber-  Yes, but the victim did something to protect herself and that is the important thing.  You know there is a threat and don’t ignore it.

Rob- It sounds like they heard the stalker outside their home.  You think the brother was wearing a gun.

Amber- The woman should have been in the back of the house at this point.  She did not need to be near the front door.  Her brother didn’t need to be near the front door either.  Firearms are distance weapons.  He could have protected them while he was watching the front door from a room at the end of the hallway.  Maybe he did.  The story doesn’t say.

Rob- So you don’t have to stand in the open and get shot by your attacker.  Good idea now that you mention it.

Amber- This isn’t Hollywood.  You don’t need to be a target.

Rob-  I need reminding just like everyone else.  That is why I take instruction every year.

Amber- Our third story took place in Oklahoma.

 

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Rob- Third Story-  Are you armed at home in the afternoon?  The first thing you hear is a terrible crash from the back of your parents home. You walk towards the sound and wonder if your folks are alright.  It is just after noon, and you see three stranger men dressed in black standing in the back of your folks home.  They’ve just kick in the back door.  Your folks are not in sight.  You yell for the intruders to leave, and you turn back to your bedroom and grab your rifle.  You head towards the back of your house calling for your mom and dad.  The intruders are still there.  Again, you shout for them to leave.  They move toward you, and you open fire shooting all three of them.  Two of the robbers never make it out of the house.  The third runs out the back door and makes it to the driveway.  The getaway car driver squeals down the driveway before the robber makes it to the getaway car.

You barricade yourself in your bedroom and call the police.  The police catch the getaway driver.  The police say there have been a number of robberies in the area.  They found brass knuckles and a knife on the robbers.  The robbers were wearing gloves and masks.

Amber-  This is more like the usual stories we cover each week.  In our first two stories, the victims had an ongoing threat.  Our third story was a surprise.  The victim had no reason to suspect that he would be robbed.  That is why we need to be prepared all the time.

Rob-  Given the amount of time the victim had, he must have had the rifle at hand and the magazines loaded.  At least the gun was not in a locked safe.  Some of the news accounts said his parents were in the home at the time.

Amber-  That means the defender had to act.  The dead robbers parents said it was unfair that the victim had a rifle.  Three thugs carrying weapons didn’t break down someone’s door looking for a fair fight.  Three against one, that is the disparity of force we talk about.

And there are politicians who want us disarmed, or to limit us to only carrying 8 cartridges in our gun.

Rob- The victim had  a gun ready.

Amber-  That is my point.  Like a fire extinguisher, you need your gun when you need it.

 

Rob- Exit-  That wraps up this episode. Amber, thank you for helping me today.  Where can our listeners learn more about you?

Amber- I instruct and compete in Phoenix, Arizona.  Listeners can contact me at Instructor Amber K on my Facebook page.  

Rob- Our listeners can share their thoughts with us by leaving a message on the podcast facebook page.  

Amber-  If you liked this show, then you’ll like the other podcasts on the Self-defense radio network.  We create this podcast under a creative commons license, so please share them with a friend, and give us a rating on I-Tunes.

Rob- I’m Rob Morse.  We’ll be back next week with more Self-Defense Gun Stories.

Listen to Gun Freedom Radio at http://gunfreedomradio.com

Episode 55 with Robyn Street

Welcome to episode 55 of Self-Defense Gun Stories. Firearms instructor Robyn Street joins us this week. Together, we report and analyze examples of armed civilian defense. Were these gun owners lucky, or were they prepared?

Rob- Introduction- Welcome to episode 55 of Self-Defense Gun Stories.  This show is for  people who think they might want a gun for self-defense, and those who already have one.  I’m Rob Morse and we’re joined this week by self-defense instructor Robyn Street.

Hi, Robyn.  How have you been?

Robyn- Hi, Rob.  

We‘ve been busy.  We were at the  tactical conference last week in Little Rock, Arkansas.  It was good to see you there.  We also took a MAG 40 class.  I have the Florida State Shoot for The Well Armed Woman next week.    I’m lucky to see old friends and make new ones at these classes.  Speaking of old friends, welcome back to our regular listeners, and hi to our new listeners.

On this podcast, we report and analyze three examples of armed civilian defense each week.  I hope we inspire you to defend the people you care about.  If you have questions or want to hear more, then please leave us a message on our facebook page.

Our first story took place this month in Louisiana.

Rob- First story- Are you armed at home when you answer the doorbell early in the morning?  You’re asleep in your home in Breaux Bridge, Louisiana.  You wake up as someone rings your doorbell again and again.  It isn’t easy to wake up at 3 in the morning.  Half awake, you are about to answer the door when your spouse tells you to take your gun with you.  You see one man standing outside your back door.  The stranger said his car broke down and he needed help.  The strange man turns his head to one side as he speaks.  You open the door a crack and look in the same direction.  There you see a man dressed in black clothes standing by your rose bushes.  The second stranger is wearing a mask and carrying a rifle.  You slam the door closed and yell a warning to your family.  The robber kicks in the door.  You take two steps back and shoot your attacker.  He was the man carrying the rifle.  You move the rifle away from the robber who is now laying on the ground.  You and your family are uninjured, but you’re sure shaken up.

Police arrest both the injured robber at the scene, and they arrest the second injured robber a few miles away.  Both were taken to a local hospital in critical condition.  Both suspects are wanted for an armed robbery and shooting that occurred in Baton Rouge the day before.  In that incident, the homeowner was shot.  Both robbers have a criminal record.  No charges will be filed against you.

Robyn – Prevention – harden your home – Now is the time to do everything that we can to prevent an attack and to make ourselves as safe as possible if we are attacked.

  •        A gate around the property if possible – keep people off your property
  •        Motion sensored lighting
  •        Cameras – interior and exterior
  •        Camera doorbells – limited field of view but you can see and talk from a distance
  •        Trim shrubbery – eliminate “hiding” places or blind spots
  •        Fortify the locks – deadbolts etc.
  •        Alarm systems – some have panic buttons and sirens
  •        Use the locks and alarms!  I am amazed at the number of people who leave the doors unlocked and only set the alarm when the go on vacation

Attackers don’t want to be seen or heard.  If you are too much of a “problem” for them there are so many others that they can go rob or attack.  No guarantee but I want to do everything that I can to prevent it.

It seems obvious that our homeowner was already behind the curve when the door bell is ringing over and over and our sleepy homeowner is heading down to the door.

Rob- This homeowner was really lucky that his spouse stopped him from opening the door unarmed.

Robyn – It is important to have the gun close, preferable in a holster, in case the homeowner needed it.

Rob – So this homeowner did something right.  He had a gun

Robyn – Yes, and he had already decided to protect his family if they were threatened.  That is great.  Now imagine how much better this scenario could have been if the husband AND the wife had both had a gun and were prepared to work together.   Working together is a huge force multiplier.

Rob- I need a solid door.  My wife and I need to be armed.  What else can we learn from this couple’s experience?

Robyn – Do NOT open the door not even a crack!

  •         That is why I like the new doorbells – you can see and talk to someone on the outside without opening the door.  You could be upstairs in a relatively safe room with your loved ones while you are instructing the person at your door to leave.  It would be great if another family member was on the phone with 911.  That would get help on the way and the 911 recording would document that you tried to get them to leave.
  •        You have to train your spouse, housemate and children not to open doors for strangers.
  •       Sometimes they use a decoy to get the door open and then the real attack begins.  In this case the bad guy at the door did not appear too threatening (someone unprepared might open the door to help him) but his accomplice in the rose bushes with a rifle and a mask (I don’t think even an unprepared person would have opened the door to help him.
  •       Schedule some time to train your housemates.  

Rob- You can do that tonight.

Robyn – In this case the bad guy said that the car was broken down and he needed help.  I am pretty skepticism about car broken down story – almost everyone today has a cell phone.  They can call for help.

Robyn – If I decided to talk to them through my doorbell camera/speaker, I don’t know how to fix a car.  I could offer to call 911 for them.  I imagine that they robbers would not be likely to hang around if I tell them that I have already called 911 and help is on the way.

Robyn – Sometimes they know to see if someone is home – if not burglary is easier

       Sometimes they want someone home

– use to open safes, get valuables

– might just want to attack

In either case if they know that police are on the way.  The clock has started on this attack. They don’t want to be around when the police arrive.

Robyn- Slammed door and yelled for the family.  

Do they know what to do? Come to him, hide, run??    

Family discussions and drills.

Robyn – I noticed that the homeowner took 2 steps back   If the robber with a rifle was advancing toward the homeowner, the robber could go much faster going forward than the homeowner could go backward. The robber would have his sights on the homeowner.  The homeowner would have to be careful not to trip.  If possible, work toward an angle.  If there was time, the homeowner should try to put a barrier between like furniture or a couch.  I imagine this happened very fast once the bad guys decided to enter the house.

Robyn – The homeowner shot the man with the rifle first.  Good job that robber was the most immediate threat.

Robyn – After the robber was shot and had fallen to the ground, the homeowner kicked the rifle away.  If the homeowner could safely get the weapons away it is a good idea.   

Robyn – As soon as it is safe to do so call 911.  Get the police and an ambulance on the way.

Rob- The Bureau of Justice Statistics said that almost half of us will be victims of a violent crime sometime in our lifetime.  The average hides more than it reveals.  Your chance of being attacked depends on where you live and what you do.    Some of us are less likely to be attacked, and some of us are more likely.

Robyn – Tom Givens says that it is not the odds but the stakes that is important.  You are not very likely to lose your family tonight, but who wants to take that chance.

Rob- Good point.  Let me say thank you to all our listeners who own a gun and are trained to use it.

Robyn- Our second story took place in Missouri.

Rob- Second Story- Are you armed when you work at a kid’s party store?

You own a party store in North Saint Louis.  The room is filled with rubber balloons, helium balloons and mylar balloons.  You’re busy preparing the next  order when a teenage customer walks in at 11 o’clock in the morning.  The customer looks around the store and selects the balloon he wants.  He brings it to the cash register. Instead of reaching for his wallet,  the teenage boy pulls back his coat and shows you the grip of a gun that is tucked into his pants.  “Give me the money,” he says.

You’re armed.  You see a lethal threat.  You grab the handgun that you keep behind the counter and fire one time.  The robber turns and runs from the store.  You check, and neither you, nor your customers, nor any bystanders are hurt.  Then you call the police.  The police say they will charge the teenage robber when he gets out of the hospital.  You won’t be charged.

Robyn- obvious that the store owner understood that this could happen.

Rob- So the store owner made a decision and had a gun?

Robyn – He was physically prepared – he had a gun at work.  He was mentally prepared to use lethal force to defend himself.

Rob- What if the robber had been talking to the owner and they were both standing in the middle of his store when the robber drew his gun?  Then the store owner would have been disarmed even though the robber still has a gun.

Robyn- You don’t have a gun if it is out of reach.  On body carry would have been better for the shop owner.  Also, call the police as soon as possible.

Rob- So this store owner had a gun.  Maybe some of our listeners are shop owners.  I bet your students ask you this question all the time.  What should someone do if they are not familiar with firearms and they want a gun for personal protection?

Robyn- Go shooting with an instructor or a trusted friend.  Take a class, because knowing what to do and how to do it is much more important than the particular hardware you use.

Rob- If you want to get somewhere, you need a map.

Robyn- Right.  It will take a few trips to the range before you find the gun that is right for you.  Gun owners need to know how to safely operate their firearm and they need to learn how to shoot.

Get some scenario based training too.  That is a fancy way of saying you want to act out your self-defense training with other people.  You put your skills and training to the test without the possibility of injuring anyone.  That way we can safely look at each action to see what went well and what we could improve.

Rob- You told me you used to use these stories with your students so they could brainstorm solutions.  Do you still do that?

Robyn- I do.  I had a meeting last night.  We ran through the scenarios to brainstorm ideas and consequences of our action choices.  Great discussion.

Robyn- Our third story took place in Georgia.

Rob- and we’ll hear about being armed in Georgia after this brief message.

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Rob- Third story- Are you armed at work?  Your job is pretty simple.  They call, and you come fix their problem.  You’re a maintenance man for a chain of sandwich shops in Acworth, Georgia.  You arrive early  in the day so the customers wouldn’t see you working on the cooling and washing equipment during the lunchtime rush.  You are almost finished with this repair and it is only 10:30 in the morning.  You hear shouts from the front of the store near the sandwich counter.  You turn and see a 20 year old standing behind the counter with a gun. You know the employees, and he isn’t one of them.  This thug is pointing his gun at the clerk.  You draw your own weapon and shoot the thug once in the chest.  The attacker turns and runs from the store.

Police say a getaway car dumped the injured robber at a local urgent care clinic.  The robber will be charged once he gets out of the hospital.  You are not facing charges.

Rob- You’re a third party to the robbery.  Should you be a good witness or get involved?

Robyn- As a third party you have no duty to intervene.

Robyn – Take some time now to make a mental list of people and situations where you’re going to use lethal force to defend someone.  Intervening in a third party dispute means that you are risking your treasure and your freedom and your life to defend that person.

Robyn – People should be responsible for their own safety.  It is not our duty as gun owners to defend someone who has neither training nor a gun.

Rob- Some adults chose to be disarmed.

Robyn-  Right, but kids didn’t have a choice.  Now is the time to make the moral decisions about what you would do, not in the moment of the attack.

Rob- You won’t have time to think, but you will have time to execute the actions you already considered.  The maintenance man decided he would protect some people he knew if a stranger threatened them with a gun.  That was his plan.

Robyn- When you’re protecting a stranger, you have to be sure of the details from beginning to end.  In this case, the entire robbery took place in front of the defender.

Rob- So the defender had a plan on when he would use deadly force for personal protection.  Did he have a plan on when to stop shooting?

Robyn- Yes.  The maintenance man only fired one shot.  Good discipline – as soon as the threat stops, so does the justification to use lethal force.  Those simple rules allow us to act quickly and to stop quickly.

Rob- What is the next step?  What is the next simple rule we want to know?

Robyn-  Make sure you’re safe, then call 911. This not only gets help on the way, it is the beginning of the next fight.  That is the potential legal battle.

Rob- Exit- That wraps up this episode. Robyn, thank you for helping me today.  Where can our listeners learn more about you?

Robyn-  I teach in Naples Florida, and our listeners can find me at Step by Step Gun Training.com.  We provide custom training courses as well as group classes.  They can also contact us on Facebook.

Rob- Our listeners can share their thoughts with us by leaving a message on the podcast facebook page.  

Robyn-  If you liked this show, then you’ll like the other podcasts on the Self-defense radio network.  We create this podcast under a creative commons license, so please share them with a friend, and give us a rating on I-Tunes.

Rob- I’m Rob Morse.  We’ll be back next week with more Self-Defense Gun Stories.

Listen to Gun Freedom Radio.

Episode 54 with Jeff Street

Welcome to episode 54 of Self-Defense Gun Stories. Firearms instructor Jeff Street joins us this week. We report and analyze examples of armed civilian defense. Were these gun owners lucky, or were they prepared?

Rob- Introduction– Welcome to episode 54 of Self-Defense Gun Stories.  This show is for  people who think they might want a gun for self-defense, and those who already have one.  I’m Rob Morse and we’re joined this week by self-defense instructor Jeff Street.

Hi, Jeff.  How have you been?

Jeff- Hi, Rob.  Hi to our new listeners, and welcome back to our regular listeners. We report and analyze three examples of armed civilian defense each week.  I hope we inspire you to defend the people you care about.  If you have questions or want to hear more, then please leave us a message on our facebook page.

Our first story took place this month in Ohio.

Rob- First story- Are you armed as you arrive home?  You’re a young woman and you are walking back home at 7:45 in the morning.  A man walks up beside you as you approach your apartment door.  He’s wearing a mask.  He has a gun.  You’re being robbed, right in front of you apartment in Cleveland, Ohio.  The robber tells you to open the door or he’ll shoot you.  He forces you inside.  He takes your purse, your keys, and your phone.  Then he walks upstairs.  He tries to rob the man living upstairs.  They fight.  The man living upstairs in the apartment grabs the robber’s gun and and shoots him several times.  The robber stumbles down stairs and falls to the floor.

The defender then calls for police and medical first responders.  The defender walks outside the apartment and waves to police.  He guides them to the crime scene. Police pronounced the robber dead at the scene.  The police say the robbers was using a stolen gun.

The two young children living in the apartment were not hurt.

Jeff- Walking home Awareness Looking Aware Flashlight

Be ready to drop or throw what is in your hand

She was forced let him in.  The robber was able the enter the building unannounced (except for noises made by the initial struggle outside the building.

The Defender grabs the robbers gun and uses it against the robber.  The repeated phrase “if you have a gun it will be used against you” comes to mind.  In reality guns are taken away from robbers and criminals by victims most often, not the other way around.  Law enforcement get their guns taken more often than non-LEOs because they have to get so close to criminals.

The gun was stolen.  Keep your guns on you or locked up.

Jeff- Our second story took place in Texas.

Rob- Second Story-  Are you armed as you stop for gasoline at night?  It’s only 8:30 in the evening.  You pull into the gas station in Houston, Texas to buy gas and get a drink.  You’re walking up to the office when a stranger comes around the corner of the building.  He pulls a gun out of his pocket and points it at you.  He wants your wallet, your phone and your keys.  You fumble for a few seconds while the robber points his gun at you.  You step to the side and present your own firearm.  You shoot the robber several times.  The robber is shooting too.  The robber falls to the ground and you run back to your car.

Police arrive a few minutes later.  Your gun is back in its holster.  You walk up to them and say you defended yourself.  You have a permit to carry concealed.

Jeff- be the first person to call the police.  You want to make sure to say that you’re the victim and tell them what you look like.  This is really important in this situation.  What if someone else sees you shoot the robber and they give the police your description as the bad guy?  If the robber has your cell phone, then go inside the business and ask them to call the police.

Side step worked.  Corner of the building is dangerous.  Usually the doors are in the middle of the building.  Try to have a direct rout but avoid traps.

Just because your being shot at or shot doesn’t give you permission to give up.

Jeff- Our third story took place in Alabama.

Please support Coloradans for civil liberties

Third story- Are you armed when you’re at home and at work?  You live where you work at your small boat store in Foley, Alabama.  With thirty to forty boats sitting outside, you need to be close by.  People come by at all hours looking for repair parts as well. That’s fine.  You have lots of regular customers after being here for ten years.

You were upstairs when you heard someone smash through the front of your store.  It’s dark outside so you can’t see what’s happening.  You stayed upstairs and grabbed your gun.  You retreated to your bedroom were looking for your cell phone.  Some big guy with an ax starts chopping his way through your bedroom door.   The intruder breaks down the door.  He is wearing a black bandana over his face.  You’re 77 years old, so you’re not going to wrestle with this guy.  The attacker comes toward you and you fire.  Your gun is really loud inside the small room, but you keep firing until the attacker stops.

Then you call police.  It is hard to dial the phone because your fingers are shaking.  It is hard to hear what the police say because it is hard to hear anything after shooting your gun indoors.

The police say your attacker died at the scene.  They pick up his two partners.  One was acting as a lookout, and the second was waiting in their getaway car.  The police admit you acted in self-defense.

Jeff- Motion sensor lights inside.  Cameras outside.  Cell phone always in familiar spot.  Electronic ear pro by the bed.  Silencer on defensive tools at home.

Jeff- Late at night.  Break in.  Where is your gun?

Rob- Should you turn on the light?

Rob- Exit- That wraps up this episode. Jeff, thank you for helping me today.  Where can our listeners learn more about you?

Jeff-  I teach in Naples Florida, and our listeners can find me at Step by Step Gun Training.com.  They can also contact us on Facebook.  We provide custom training courses as well as standard group classes.  (any upcoming classes?)

Rob- Our listeners can share their thoughts with us by leaving a message on the podcast facebook page.  

Jeff-  If you liked this show, then you’ll like the other podcasts on the Self-defense radio network.  We create this podcast under a creative commons license, so please share them with a friend, and give us a rating on I-Tunes.

Rob- I’m Rob Morse.  We’ll be back in a few weeks with more Self-Defense Gun Stories.


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Episode 53 with David Cole

Welcome to episode 53 of Self-Defense Gun Stories. Firearms instructor David Cole joins us this week. We report and analyze examples of armed civilian defense. Were these gun owners lucky, or were they prepared?

I had to re-record some of the audio.  🙁

Introduction- Rob- I’m Rob Morse, and welcome to episode 53 of Self-Defense Gun Stories.  This podcast is for  people who think they might want a gun for self-defense, and those who already have one.  Firearms instructor Dave Cole is with us this week.

It has been a little cold to compete outside, but other than that, how have you been?

Dave- Hi, Rob.  Yeah, it’s too cold and dark to shoot steel after work, but it’s getting lighter and warmer every day. Check out my latest post at Black Man With A Gun, called “March Madness” for more about the benefits of competition.

Hi to our new listeners, and welcome back to our regular listeners. We report and analyze three examples of armed civilian defense each week.  I hope we inspire you to defend the people you care about.  If you have questions or want to hear more, then please leave us a message on our facebook page.

Our first story took place this month in Nebraska.

First story-  Are you armed at your local barbershop?  You and your brother run a barbershop together.  Your family lives upstairs, and you’re both cutting hair on a Friday morning.  Customers were in the chars and in the shop waiting their turn.  That is when a stranger walked in and pushed to the front of the line.

This stranger was carrying a shotgun and a backpack.  He dropped the backpack on the ground and  pointed the shotgun at you.  He yelled, “You and everyone else, put everything in the bag.”

You glance at your brother.  He nods in reply.

“Here, take it,” you say, as you throw your wallet on the floor.  You and your brother are both licensed to carry.  You’re both armed.  You wait your turn and step back.  Your brother draws first as the thief reaches down to grab your wallet.  Your gun is drawn a second later.  The thief shoots at you, and then both you and your brother are shooting at him.  The thief runs from your barbershop.  The entire robbery was over in seconds and captured on your security video.

You had a plan.  Other stores in the area were robbed.  You knew what you’d do because you talked about it before.  You tell reporters that everyone needs a plan.

The police collected the robber from where he’d collapsed outside.  They took him to a local hospital, and wouldn’t comment on his condition.  The thief’s bullets shattered a mirror on the back wall.  Thank goodness that neither you, your family or your customers were injured.  You and your brother start sweeping up the broken glass.

Dave- Violent attacks happen fast.  Knowing what to do saves you time.  Having a plan can be more important than having the fastest draw. Visualize your daily routine, and when and where an attack might happen. Then think “what would I do?”

Rob-  But practice helps too, doesn’t it?

Dave-  Sure it helps to practice, but practice saves you fractions of a second.  Having a plan can save whole seconds…and that’s a lot. It’s important to note what their plan accomplished, which was to distract the robber by throwing a wallet on the floor, creating the opportunity for the armed brother to draw his gun.

This is the value of “wargaming” scenarios…actually thinking about how a violent encounter might go down, and then how you might deal with it.

Rob-  You don’t have ten seconds to calm down and think.

Dave- Our second story took place in California.

Second Story-  Are you armed at work at 3 in the morning?

It’s a messy business, but someone has to do it if your customers want fresh pastry and doughnuts on their way to work.   You don’t stay in the bakery business if flour and sugar bother you.  All is not sweetness and light here in Lancaster, California.  Being a baker means you go to work in the dark.  Your day is half done by the time most people wake up.  Your daughter owns the shop, but you help her at night.

It was early morning when you heard the crash of glass from the front of the shop.  You looked up and saw two man run past the cash register and head towards the back of the store.  He’s carrying the tire iron he used to break through the front of the store.   Your daughter was back there.  You drew your firearm and fired.  Both thieves turned and ran.  One of the thieves dropped the cash register.  The other one dropped to the pavement outside.

You called police.  You’d thought about what to say because you’d been robbed before at another bakery where you worked. That is why you were carrying today.  You couldn’t get a concealed carry permit since you work in Los Angeles County, but you can still carry at work and at home.  Neither you nor the other employees at the store were hurt.

Dave- (There are California gun owners. Carry at work.  Carry on your body. Protect the people you care about.) Once again, here is a business owner who was prepared. People who work at odd hours such as this bakery owner, convenience store workers, and the like are often at high risk for crime. Rob, you have more intimate knowledge of California gun laws than I do, but it IS possible to have a defensive firearm, right?

Dave- So this baker didn’t simply surrender his safety to restrictive California gun laws; he found a way to do what he could within the constraints of the law to be prepared for violent crime, and it made all the difference.

Dave- Our third story took place in Idaho.

http://www.armedlutheran.us/

Third story- Rob- Are you armed when you’re driving your young daughter to school in the morning?  Monday’s are hard.  You got your 9-year-old daugher up, got her fed and had just dropped her off at school in Boise, Idaho.  You were driving alone and had slowed down to stop at the corner.  That is when a man jumped in front of your car and pulled open the driver’s side door.  You slammed on the brakes and the car stalled.  The carjacker demanded your keys and your purse.  He started hitting you in the head when he didn’t get what he wanted as fast as he wanted it.

Your attacker grabbed your hair and tried to drag you out of your car.  You yelled, “’OK, OK, that’s enough! I’ll give you my purse.”  That is what you said, but that isn’t what you did.  You reached into the console of your car and grabbed your gun.  You turned and pointed your pistol at your attacker.  His plans changed in an instant.  He turned and ran.

You called the police.  The suspect is still at large.

Dave-  Great job to this mom.  She thought about what to do because you don’t have time to think while you’re getting hit in the head.  If there’s a common theme in our stories today, it’s “have a plan.” While the saying that “no plan survives the first contact,” it is still better to have a plan and adapt as necessary, than to have no plan at all.

It was fortunate that her daughter wasn’t with her, which would have made for a much more complex problem.  I can imagine how I would feel if my young nieces were in the car while I was attacked.  But that’s exactly why I carry, and it’s great that this mom was prepared and had her gun near her.

This is where things get complicated.  I want our listeners to imagine they are driving with a child in the back seat.   What if the thief had jumped into the passenger seat and grabbed her purse and her gun?  I’m well trained, and I don’t want to have to solve that problem.

Better if she had her doors locked, especially since the news story doesn’t indicate that the carjacker was armed.  Better still if she had her gun on her person. What if he had managed to drag her out of the car and away from her gun?

 

 

Exit-  Rob- That wraps up this episode. Dave, thank you for helping me today.  Where can our listeners learn more about you?

Dave- I teach in the Cincinnati area.  They can contact me at Aegis Solutions for firearms instruction.  I also write at the Blackman with a Gun website.  Our listeners can reach me at either site. I’d also like to mention that our big “family reunion” is right around the corner…the NRA Annual Meetings & Exhibits, and we’d love to see you there. It’s in Atlanta, Georgia, April 27-30, at the Georgia World Congress Center.

Rob- Our listeners can share their thoughts with us by leaving a message on the podcast facebook page.  

Dave-  We create this podcast under a creative commons license, so please share them with a friend, and give us a rating on I-Tunes.

Rob- I’m Rob Morse.  We’ll be back next week with more Self-Defense Gun Stories.

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