Rob- Introduction- Welcome to episode 97 of Self-Defense Gun Stories. This podcast is for people who might want a firearm, and for those who have one and want to learn more. I’m your host, Rob Morse. We have firearms instructor Ben Branam as co-host this week.
Ben- Hi, Rob. I’ve been really busy with my day job. We had fun with Bill Frady on Lock and Load Radio. (Starting here) On this podcast, we study three recent examples of armed defense. Our first story took place last week in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. Here is what happened.
Rob- First story- Are you armed when you’re walking on the street?
You’re a woman in your thirties. It is mid-morning and you’re walking down the street. You hear a woman scream. You see a man attacking the woman who delivers your mail. The attacker has the mailwoman down on the ground and is pulling at her clothes. You yell for him to stop. He won’t. You step near the attacker, draw your gun, and shoot into the ground. Now the man stops attacking the woman. He stands up and runs at you. You shoot into the ground in front of him. He stops and runs away. You turn back to the victim of the sexual assault and ask her if she is ok. She is shaken. The police arrive in minutes and tell you to put the gun down. You follow their instructions. The police find the attacker in a nearby alley.
Ben- Great that our defender was armed. She had a gun on her so she could help herself and other people who clearly needed it.
Rob- How do we know the mail carrier needed help?
Ben- She was mounted with a larger attacker on top of her. The mail carrier faced a lethal threat or great bodily harm. Rape is considered great bodily harm.
Rob- And that is the legal justification for using lethal force?
Ben- Yes. If someone is trying to kill you, you can shoot them to defend yourself. If someone is trying to choke you unconscious or rape you, you can shoot them to defend yourself.
Rob- But they weren’t attacking me or the armed defender.
Ben- Right. You have the right to use lethal force because the sexual assault victim had that right. You are doing it for her. You’re acting like a bodyguard and you get your legal justification from the rights of the victim.
Rob- Because the mail carrier had the right to defend herself, I have the right to defend her?
Ben- Exactly. I wish that this defender had been in my class because we talk about that. She would have known that she could shoot the attacker rather than shoot near him.
Rob- Could you say more about that?
Ben- Not right now. We’ll talk about warning shots later. I want to go back to what the defender did correctly. She followed the instructions that the police gave her. They said put the gun down. She complied immediately and didn’t argue. That is not the time to explain that you’re the good person. Drop your gun so the police don’t shoot you. They are going to secure the scene before they do anything else. The faster you comply the faster the police can help the sexual assault victim.
Rob- Is there more.
Ben- Lots more, but I’ll save some of it for the next story. Our second story happened last week in Actworth, Georgia.
It is very early Saturday morning. You’re having breakfast at a restaurant. You look up as two men enter in hurry. They are wearing hoodies..and have guns drawn. They demand the money from the cash register. They are pointing their guns at the clerk behind the counter. You’re armed. You draw your firearm and shoot at the robbers. They run. You check on the clerk and call police.
Ben- Good he had a gun. Draw from a seated position at a table. Similar to presenting when you’re in your car.
Why miss? Don’t send warning shots. Justified or not. Civilians can’t use a firearm as a tool of intimidation. That is what the bad guys do. We don’t do that.
Ben- Our third story happened last week in Springville, Utah.
Rob- First this message GFR
Rob- Third story- Are you armed when you’re driving your car?
You’re driving on Main Street just after noon. This has to be the safest place in the world at the safest time of day. You look over and see a police car with its light flashing. The officer is on the ground and another man is on top of him hitting the police officer. You stop your car and get out. You have your carry permit. You’re armed. You shout for the attacker to stop. He doesn’t. You draw your gun and then the attacker stops. He runs away. Police arrive and you put your gun away.
The injured police officer was taken to the hospital with broken bones in his face. The attacker was arrested and has a lengthy police record..
Ben- This is the week for stories about helping a third party.
Rob- I knew you could handle it.
Ben- We have an unarmed mail carrier. A clerk in a waffle house, and an armed cop.
Rob- And more.
Ben- That’s right. Each of the victims were at risk of death or great bodily injury.
Rob- and no one died in each case, so what is going on here?
Ben- Remember how we get our justification from the victim? We’re betting our freedom that the person we think is the victim didn’t start the fight. The mail carrier didn’t start the fight. The clerk behind the counter at Waffle house didn’t start the fight. Here, the police officer didn’t start the fight. The presumption of innocence is pretty strong in this case. That might not be true for your uncle Bob.
Rob- Was our armed responder justified in shooting and perhaps killing the attacker?
Ben- Being on your back and being hit means the attacker has a disparity of force.
Exit- Rob- Ben, that wraps up this episode. Thank you for helping us today. Where can we learn more about you?
Ben- You can find me at Modern Self Protection.com. I live in San Antonio, and most of my classes are in central Texas. I teach armed self-defense and church security. Listeners can see my complete class schedule at my website, and they can also listen to my podcast Modern Self-Protection.
Rob- You can share your thoughts with us by leaving a message on the podcast facebook page.
Ben- If you liked this show, then you’ll like the other podcasts on the Self-defense radio network.
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Rob- I’m Rob Morse. We’ll be back next week with more Self-Defense Gun Stories.