Episode 97 with Ben Branam

Can you protect yourself away from home? Learn how. Ben Branam brings us three news stories of armed civilians who protected other people. (16 minute audio podcast)

Rob- Introduction- Welcome to episode 97 of Self-Defense Gun Stories.  This podcast is for people who might want a firearm, and for those who have one and want to learn more.  I’m your host, Rob Morse.  We have firearms instructor Ben Branam as co-host this week.

Hi, Ben.  How have you been?

Ben- Hi, Rob.  I’ve been really busy with my day job.  We had fun with Bill Frady on Lock and Load Radio. (Starting here)  On this podcast, we study three recent examples of armed defense. Our first story took place last week in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. Here is what happened.

Rob- First story-  Are you armed when you’re walking on the street?

You’re a woman in your thirties. It is mid-morning and you’re walking down the street. You hear a woman scream. You see a man attacking the woman who delivers your mail. The attacker has the mailwoman down on the ground and is pulling at her clothes. You yell for him to stop. He won’t. You step near the attacker, draw your gun, and shoot into the ground. Now the man stops attacking the woman.  He stands up and runs at you. You shoot into the ground in front of him. He stops and runs away. You turn back to the victim of the sexual assault and ask her if she is ok. She is shaken. The police arrive in minutes and tell you to put the gun down. You follow their instructions. The police find the attacker in a nearby alley.

Ben- Great that our defender was armed. She had a gun on her so she could help herself and other people who clearly needed it.

Rob- How do we know the mail carrier needed help?

Ben- She was mounted with a larger attacker on top of her. The mail carrier faced a lethal threat or great bodily harm. Rape is considered great bodily harm.

Rob- And that is the legal justification for using lethal force?

Ben- Yes. If someone is trying to kill you, you can shoot them to defend yourself. If someone is trying to choke you unconscious or rape you, you can shoot them to defend yourself.

Rob- But they weren’t attacking me or the armed defender.

Ben- Right. You have the right to use lethal force because the sexual assault victim had that right. You are doing it for her. You’re acting like a bodyguard and you get your legal justification from the rights of the victim.

Rob- Because the mail carrier had the right to defend herself, I have the right to defend her?

Ben- Exactly. I wish that this defender had been in my class because we talk about that. She would have known that she could shoot the attacker rather than shoot near him.

Rob- Could you say more about that?

Ben- Not right now. We’ll talk about warning shots later. I want to go back to what the defender did correctly. She followed the instructions that the police gave her. They said put the gun down. She complied immediately and didn’t argue. That is not the time to explain that you’re the good person. Drop your gun so the police don’t shoot you.  They are going to secure the scene before they do anything else. The faster you comply the faster the police can help the sexual assault victim.

Rob- Is there more.

Ben- Lots more, but I’ll save some of it for the next story. Our second story happened last week in Actworth, Georgia.

Rob- Second Story-  Are you armed when you are out to eat?

It is very early Saturday morning. You’re having breakfast at a restaurant. You look up as two men enter in hurry. They are wearing hoodies..and have guns drawn. They demand the money from the cash register. They are pointing their guns at the clerk behind the counter. You’re armed. You draw your firearm and shoot at the robbers. They run. You check on the clerk and call police.

Ben- Good he had a gun. Draw from a seated position at a table. Similar to presenting when you’re in your car.

Why miss? Don’t send warning shots. Justified or not. Civilians can’t use a firearm as a tool of intimidation.  That is what the bad guys do.  We don’t do that.

Ben- Our third story happened last week in Springville, Utah.

Rob- First this message GFR

Listen to Gun Freedom Radio at http://gunfreedomradio.com

Rob- Third story- Are you armed when you’re driving your car?

You’re driving on Main Street just after noon. This has to be the safest place in the world at the safest time of day. You look over and see a police car with its light flashing. The officer is on the ground and another man is on top of him hitting the police officer. You stop your car and get out. You have your carry permit. You’re armed. You shout for the attacker to stop. He doesn’t. You draw your gun and then the attacker stops. He runs away. Police arrive and you put your gun away.

The injured police officer was taken to the hospital with broken bones in his face. The attacker was arrested and has a lengthy police record..

Ben- This is the week for stories about helping a third party.

Rob- I knew you could handle it.

Ben- We have an unarmed mail carrier. A clerk in a waffle house, and an armed cop.

Rob- And more.

Ben- That’s right. Each of the victims were at risk of death or great bodily injury.

Rob- and no one died in each case, so what is going on here?

Ben- Remember how we get our justification from the victim? We’re betting our freedom that the person we think is the victim didn’t start the fight. The mail carrier didn’t start the fight. The clerk behind the counter at Waffle house didn’t start the fight. Here, the police officer didn’t start the fight. The presumption of innocence is pretty strong in this case. That might not be true for your uncle Bob.

Rob- Was our armed responder justified in shooting and perhaps killing the attacker?

Ben- Being on your back and being hit means the attacker has a disparity of force.

Exit-  Rob- Ben, that wraps up this episode. Thank you for helping us today. Where can we learn more about you?

Ben- You can find me at Modern Self Protection.com.  I live in San Antonio, and most of my classes are in central Texas.  I teach armed self-defense and church security. Listeners can see my complete class schedule at my website, and they can also listen to my podcast Modern Self-Protection.

Rob- You can share your thoughts with us by leaving a message on the podcast facebook page.  

Ben-   If you liked this show, then you’ll like the other podcasts on the Self-defense radio network.  

We share this podcast with you for free.  Please share it with a friend and give us a rating on I-Tunes and Stitcher.  We’re also available on Google Play Music.

Rob- I’m Rob Morse.  We’ll be back next week with more Self-Defense Gun Stories.

Episode 65 with Tony Simon

Welcome to episode 65 of Self-Defense Gun Stories. Firearms instructor Tony Simon joins us this week. We report and analyze examples of armed civilian defense. Were these gun owners lucky, or were they prepared? How would you do in their situation? (17 minutes )

Rob- Introduction- I’m Rob Morse and welcome to episode 65 of Self-Defense Gun Stories.  This podcast is for people who think they might want a firearm.. and those who already have one.  We’re joined this week by self-defense instructor Tony Simon.

Hi, Tony.  How have you been?

Tony- Hi, Rob.  How have I been? I had ‘The Second is for Everyone’ diversity shoot a few days ago.  About 50 people came.

Hi to our new listeners, and welcome back to our regular listeners. We report and analyze three examples of armed civilian defense.  We hope you use these reports as part of your exercise program.. to use your imagination today so you can defend the people you care about tomorrow.  Please leave us a message on our facebook page with your questions or comments.

Tony- Our first story took place last week in Selma, Alabama.

Rob- First story-  Are you armed as you arrive home?  You and your wife arrive home just before midnight.  You park in your driveway and start to get out of your car.  A man runs out of the darkness and says, “give it up.”  He has a gun pointed at you.  You’re on the driver’s side and you reach for your gun.  The attacker shoots you, and then he runs toward the passenger side of the car.  You shoot him as he grabs your wife’s purse.  Then you call police.

You’re released from the hospital in a few hours.  Your attacker was a convicted felon.

Tony- Felons don’t obey gun laws so this guy got a gun and committed another armed robbery. You don’t know when you will become a victim of violent crime so follow the “Pants on-Gun on” motto

Rob- so what should we do?

Tony- Let’s put motion sensor lights on the house so the driveway lights up when you come home. Cut back bushes and shrubs from your house. If the bad guy doesn’t have the cover of darkness or a hiding place he has no location from which to launch an ambush. Bad guys won’t likely stand in the middle of a empty, well lit lawn.

Rob- I see.  It is better to avoid the fight than win one.

Tony- You can’t lose a fight that you never showed up to be in.  Also, if you and your spouse are armed the two of you being armed is 10 times more effective than one of you being armed. Two sets of eyes scanning for bad guys is more effective than one set.

Rob- My wife and I took training together.  But we have to practice.

Tony- You have to practice together.  You can do it as you’re walking down the street together, or walking at the mall. During this year’s NRA annual meeting in Atlanta my wife and I stayed alert and kept our heads on a swivel. We were effective because we do this no matter where we are going. Being aware of your surroundings  at all times should become a goal.

Rob- OK, so now I’ve got homework.

Tony- We all have homework.  The next thing is to have your gun on you.  This victim had to reach for his gun as if it were not on his body.  It could have been located in a bag or in a compartment inside the car.

Rob-  Getting a gun from his bag took time he didn’t have.

Tony-  He might have had the time later, but he didn’t have it right then.  What if the robber took whatever his gun was in or saw it inside of the car before the victim could reach it?

Rob- Yikes.  What do you mean he didn’t have time right then?

Tony- The robber had moved on to the other side of the car and his attention was elsewhere when the driver got his gun into the fight. Using a term that I learned from Ben Branum, the driver used “tactical patience” and attacked when the situation favored him. The victim was justified in going for his gun, but it is still our decision when we do it.  

Tony- Our second story happened last week in Wichita, Kansas.

Rob- Second Story-  Are you armed as you drive for Lyft?  You’re driving for Lyft.  It’s late at night on memorial day, and you think you’ll just take some people home after they have been partying too hard and too late.  You pick up two passengers who say they want to go to the zoo..in the middle of the night.  That sets off some alarm bells.  You drive them back to where you picked them up and a third man, one of their friends gets in the car as well.  That is when they start asking inappropriate questions.

You’re a married mom, and it sounds like they are looking for something else entirely.  One of the men grabs your breast.  You yell for him to stop and get out of the car.  He doesn’t move fast enough so you draw your firearm.  Now he moves.

You call police.

Being a stay at home mom seems like a better idea than driving for Lyft.

Tony- Could she have avoided the problem by letting her passengers out in front of a police station, or a major well-lit motel that has porters standing outside.  The staff will walk up to your window and ask if you want them to park your car.  That means you have a witness, and that alone will stop a lot of criminals.

Rob- she was in the driver’s seat..in more ways than one.

Tony- Right, but she didn’t have a plan of what to do if she had aggressive passengers.  Most gun owners don’t carry.  Most of the carriers only took enough training to get their license.  Thinking these things through helps you make better choices.

Rob-  Do you have students who drive a cab, or work for Lyft or Uber?

Tony- I have not had any students but both my Father-in Law and Mother-in- law drive and drove cabs for years. You should never take on fares by yourself.  Have a plan to get police to you or to get yourself to the police.

Our third story happened last week in Burlington, North Carolina.

Please support Buckeye Firearms Foundation at https://www.buckeyefirearmsfoundation.org/

Rob- Third story- Are you armed when you wash your car?  You’re washing your car early in the morning.  You see another car cruise by, and then it parks a few stalls away from you.  It’s an old car with lots of patches and half painted repairs.  Odd that they want to wash their car in the middle of the night.  You’re worried, so you grab your gun from your car.

A man steps around the concrete barriers between stalls.  He has a bandana over his face and he points his gun at you.  He says to give him your money.  You raise your gun and fire.  Your attacker runs away.  You’re not injured.  You call police.

Tony, what did the victim do right?

Tony- Rob, the victim was aware of his surroundings, he wasn’t distracted by having his earphones on and his head down.

Rob- He would have been disarmed if he hadn’t seen them coming.

Tony- And please have your gun on your body.  What if you were washing the passenger side of your car while the gun was over on the drivers side.  When you need a gun, you really need a gun. If it isn’t on you, you may spend the rest of your life trying to reach your defensive firearm.

Rob- again, that was time the victim didn’t have.

Tony- you know you said that before.

Rob- Well we make the same mistakes over and over.  Next week I’ll try and find new mistakes.

Tony- Most gun owners don’t have carry permits.  Lots of people with their permit don’t carry.  They would do so much better with just a little bit of training and a little thought. Training gives you things to think about that may never have crossed your mind.

Rob- In this example, what would your students learn

Tony- here are two obvious things.  First lesson is to move to keep the car between you and your attacker.  The second is to know how well you shoot.  Practice lets you know what you’re capable of doing.  It looks like the victim’s shot missed his attacker.  This was a psychological stop.  Please practice shooting quickly.  Not every range will let you do that.

Rob- Drawing quickly can be dangerous for new students, so you’d probably want to practice with and empty gun at first.

Tony- Please start with a class so you’re not practicing mistakes.  

Rob- better yet.

Tony- Don’t do what you see people do in the movies or on TV or Youtube.  We can show you how to do it safely and quickly.

We also tell everyone to win the race to the phone.  Be the first one to call the police.

Rob- You know that is three things you’d tell your students.  You said there were only two.

Tony- basic gun safety

How to shoot safely

How to defend yourself with a gun.

Exit-  Rob- That wraps up this episode. Tony, thank you for helping me today.  Where can our listeners learn more about you?

Tony-  I teach firearms safety and armed-self defense courses in New Jersey.  Our listeners can contact me on Facebook at Simon Says Train or at The Second is for Everyone. I’m also at SimonSaysTrain on Instagram.  My classes are listed at BlackBagResources.com

Rob- Our listeners can share their thoughts with us by leaving a message on the podcast facebook page.  

Tony-  If you liked this show, then you’ll like the other podcasts on the Self-defense radio network.  We create this podcast under a creative commons license, so please share it with a friend, and give us a rating on I-Tunes.

Rob- I’m Rob Morse.  We’ll be back next week with more Self-Defense Gun Stories.

Give Lloyd a listen at http://www.armedlutheran.us/