Episode 106 with David Cole

Can you protect yourself at home and at work? Firearms instructor David Cole brings us three news stories of armed civilians who protected themselves.. and those they love. (16 minute audio podcast)

Rob- Introduction- Welcome to episode 106 of Self-Defense Gun Stories.  This podcast is for people who might want a firearm for self-defense, and for those who already have one.  I’m your host, Rob Morse. Firearms instructor David Cole with us as co-host.

Hi, David.  How have you been?

David- Hi, Rob.  I’ve been building an 80% Glock 19, shooting USPSA, and getting ready for the NRA Annual Meeting.

Rob- Please introduce our podcast to our new listeners.

David- Each week we study three recent examples of armed defense to see what we can learn. What should we do if we were in their situation. Our first story took place last week in Raleigh, North Carolina.  Here’s what happened.

Rob- First story-  Are you armed at home?

Someone knocks at your front door at 430 in the morning. A few seconds later there is yelling from your front room. Two armed men are shouting orders. You grab your gun. These two strangers point a gun at you and you shoot them. You shoot them both. Your son is hurt. It isn’t clear from news reports whether he was struck by gunfire or hit by the robbers. You grab your son and drive him to the hospital.

Neighbors hear the gunshots and call 911. The police find one robber dead in your home. They arrest the second robber when he goes to the hospital.

You’re attacker has been arrested at least 8 times before. His latest arrest was only two months ago for robbery. This time he is charged with armed robbery, conspiracy to commit armed robbery, first-degree burglary and firearms possession by a felon.

 

David- This one sounds pretty bad, but it certainly could have been much worse. The good news is that the homeowner had a gun and was able to get to it quickly enough to respond to the attack. A good rule of thumb is POGO…Pants On, Gun On. When you’re asleep, you do need some sort of secure storage such as a speed safe or similar, once you’re up the best place for your gun is on your person.

Rob- When do your students learn about where to store their firearms so they can get to them?

David- CCW classes teach that material.

Rob- If you have your concealed carry permit, do you even know how to draw a gun quickly and safely?

David- As far as the ability to quickly engage multiple targets accurately…you know where I stand on that, Rob. First of all, go get some training in defensive pistol shooting. Both the NRA and Second Amendment Foundation offer defensive pistol classes, and there are plenty of other instructors out there as well. Then to keep those skills sharp…and improve them…I’m a big fan of action pistol competition such as USPSA and IDPA.

Rob- If you had to guess, how many of your students compete?

David- Our second story happened last week, and was right next to Raleigh, North Carolina.

Rob- Second Story-  Are you armed at work.

It is late at night at this convenience store. A man comes in. You watch him. Rather than select an item, the customer walks directly to the counter. The man has a gun in his hand, and it is pointed at you. You push him away and try to run to the back room. He follows you.

It isn’t clear if your gun was kept in the back room of if kept your gun on you. You shoot your attacker. He runs.

You call police..and so does your attacker. Your attacker said he was shot in a drive by shooting. The police see the surveillance video from your store and arrest your attacker in the hospital. He is charged with armed robbery and aggravated assault.

-Please carry your gun on you. You don’t want to spend the rest of your life trying to get a gun to defend yourself.

Rob- David, how does a gun owner get his permit?

David- Of course, all states are different, but most require that you take some sort of class, and then take the certificate of completion from that class to apply for your permit. One website I recommend to learn about state laws regarding permitting and other topics surrounding concealed carry is handgunlaw.us  I have found them to be a reliable source for state firearms laws, as well as the NRA-ILA website.

Rob- Where would he then learn to shoot as he moves, and to shoot at very close targets?

David- Again, a good defensive pistol class such as offered by the NRA, SAF or others is the best place to start if you have never done that type of shooting before. I have shot the NRA course, but have not tried the SAF version yet. And my personal opinion is that if you have the time and money, the Gunsite Academy 250 Pistol class is the gold standard.

 

David- Our third story happened last week in Gaffney, South Carolina.

Listen to Gun Freedom Radio at http://gunfreedomradio.com

Rob- Third story- Do you have a way to defend yourself in the early morning?

You hear a knock at your door. It is 3:30 in the morning. Your boyfriend answers the door and ask why they are knocking at that hour. Two armed men push the door open and throw your boyfriend against the wall. He breaks the wall as he hits it. The two intruders are armed. The one in front has a shotgun, and your boyfriend grabs it. You grab your gun.

The story isn’t clear if you had your gun with you or if you had to retrieve it. You shoot the large man fighting with your boyfriend. The attacker drops to the floor. The other intruder runs away. You call the police. Your attacker was pronounced dead at the scene from a shot to the head.

David- This is an interesting one, though we are missing some details. From the news story, it sounds like the defender shot the attacker at very close range. You are right that it is a difficult problem to solve, shooting in defense of another while tangled up in physical combat. Besides concerns of making an accurate shot, you also need to consider the angle of the shot. If the shot fully penetrates the bad guy, where is it going to go? I think you would want to get close enough to be 100% confident in your shot placement. And for the record, I decline your invitation to a tickle fight!

David- Both of our home invasion stories this week featured homeowners who opened the door without knowing who was outside. Both occurred during the very early morning hours, and although we don’t know how these folks lived, I know that I would find a knock on the door at 3 or 4 AM to be very suspicious. I don’t believe I would answer that knock, and I definitely would challenge the person outside to identify themselves before I even thought about opening the door. You know for sure that if I did open it, I’d be armed.

David- Another option is something called a wide-angle peephole. We’ve all seen the standard peepholes in hotel room doors, and although they’re better than nothing, it can be hard to see very well through them. A better option is a wide-angle peephole, with a bigger lens and wider field of view which makes it much easier to see who’s out there. You can find them at places like Lowe’s and Home Depot, or on Amazon. Also, high tech options such as wireless surveillance cameras and video view doorbells are also becoming more common and less expensive.

 

Exit- Rob- That wraps up this episode. David, thank you for helping us today.  Where can we learn more about you?

David- My training website is Aegis Solutions LLC on Facebook, and I’m also at BlackManWithAGun.com

Rob- You can share your thoughts with us by leaving a message on the podcast facebook page.  

David-   If you liked this show, then you’ll like the other podcasts on the Self-defense radio network. We share this podcast with you for free.  Please share it with a friend and give us a rating on I-Tunes and Stitcher.  We’re also available on Google Play Music and Spotify.

Rob- I’m Rob Morse.  We’ll be back next week with more Self-Defense Gun Stories.

Episode 105 with Elizabeth Hautman

Can you protect yourself at home, at work, and as you drive? Firearms instructor Elizabeth Hautman brings us three news stories of armed civilians who protected themselves.. and those they love. (18 minute audio podcast)

Rob- Introduction- Welcome to episode 105 of Self-Defense Gun Stories.  This podcast is for people who might want a firearm for self-defense, and for those who already have one.  I’m your host, Rob Morse. We have firearms instructor Elizabeth Hautman with us as co-host.

Hi, Elizabeth.  How have you been?

Elizabeth- Hi, Rob.  I’ve been busy setting up my spring schedule.  Now is the time to take advantage of mild temps and quiet weekends before summer kicks in.

Rob- Please introduce our podcast to our new listeners.

Elizabeth- Each week we study three new examples of armed defense to see what we can learn. What should we do if we were in their situation? Our first story took place last week in Hesperia, California.  Here is what happened.

Rob- First story-  Is your firearm available to you late in the evening?  

You’re at home late in the evening. You’re in bed when you hear a really loud crash from the front of your home. You grab your gun and go to investigate. A stranger is standing in the front room and your front window is gone. You yell for him to leave, and then shoot him when he doesn’t. Now the intruder leaves. You retreat to your bedroom and call police.

EMTs take the intruder to the hospital. The police recognize the intruder. Your intruder was arrested for a parole violation two months ago and was let out of jail four days ago.

The news media asks you to comment, and you don’t. Police Sgt. Marc Bracco said, “We’re glad when any homeowner protects themselves, that’s what they need to do in these situations. That’s why you’re allowed to carry a firearm in your residence.”

Elizabeth, how do you store your guns at night?  

Elizabeth- Well Rob, there are two answers to that and it really depends upon whether the kids are home or not.  I always lock up my firearms when the kids are home. No question about it. Even though they are responsible, older teens, with firearms experience, we all know teens can be unpredictable and moody.  Also, i’m happy to welcome their friends into the house. No telling what their gun education is. So kids in the house, guns locked up, kids at dad’s gun in by my bed. We always have to make compromises when it comes to firearms access.  I know some who sleep with a firearm under their pillow. I don’t understand that. My gun would be on the floor with the extra blanket and pillows and no use to me anyway. I trust my training to access my firearm efficiently when the time comes.

Secondly,  I am not searching through my home looking for the intruder.  What if I hear one guy and there are three, what if I am outgunned, and besides, there is nothing beyond my room worth getting hurt over.

Rob- When would your students learn to shoot in low light?

Elizabeth- Indoor range, simulators are great for that type of practice.  We are fortunate to have that type of trainer in my town.

Rob- Do you talk about calling the police and what to say when they arrive?

Elizabeth- Absolutely….

Elizabeth- Our second story happened last week in Memphis, Tennessee.

Rob- Second Story-  Are you armed as you drive your car?

You’re driving for Uber Eats to pick up a few dollars. It is a few minutes after midnight on a weekday night. Your wife is riding along as you drive. You pull into  IHOP and pick up the order. You hand her the order and sit in the driver’s seat when three young men approach your car. One of them puts a gun to the driver’s side window and tells you to get out of the car and hand him your keys and your money.

Your wife is in the car. You grab your handgun that is sitting in the center console. You shoot the attacker closest to your driver’s window. Some of the other robbers are shooting at your car. You open the door and shoot back at them.

They run. You and  your wife go inside and call the police. Two of the robbers were arrested at the hospital. The police said they may be connected to another robbery earlier that night.

Elizabeth, this is pretty advanced self-defense. You have to defend yourself from multiple attackers in the dark, and you have someone else to protect so you can’t run.

Rob- Where would we learn to carry in a car?

Elizabeth-   Again, one step at a time.  Really we don’t know what we don’t know.  I have worked with the unconscious incompetent.  The student doesn’t have an inkling what they don’t know.   Then they take a class and begin to see the total sum of completeness of what there is to know and they become the consciously incompetent.  So the student becomes aware of their shortcomings and then hopefully becomes motivated to learn more. Hopefully to progress to unconsciously competent where the right thing to do becomes automatic.  That comes from training, training and more training. Incorporating muscle memory into the drill and just knowing what to do. I believe we drive that way. I know I don’t have to tell myself to turn on the turn signal, it is an automatic maneuver for my turn.  I unconsciously know to do that before I initiate a turn. Firearms training is the same way. But only after much practice and training and coaching.

Rob- Suppose you have your carry permit. How could you safely practice drawing a firearm while you’re seated?  

Elizabeth- This is where tools like blue guns come into play.  I use them quite frequently in my class. They are simply plastic guns, that fit in my holster and have the look and feel of my real firearm, however, they are bright blue, and plastic.  

Elizabeth- Our third story happened last week in Roanoke, Virginia.

Please join and support the Second Amendment Foundation at SAF.org

Rob- Third story- Are you armed when you’re walking down the street?

You’re working on equipment in a small business. It is late morning and you hear people scream outside. You look out the window and see a dog attack a young mother who is pushing a baby carriage. You walk to your car and grab your gun. An older man with a cane is hitting the dog and trying to protect the mother and child. The dog bites the older man. You run closer. Someone shoots the dog in the face with pepper spray. Someone grabs his collar and tries to choke the dog. Someone hits the dog with a hammer. Finally the dog lets go and the victims scatter. You shoot the dog. You have to shoot the dog a second time to stop him.

An animal control officer comes to take the dog away. He’d seen this dog before after the dog bit someone.

Elizabeth- He had a gun. I wish it was on him rather than in his truck.

Rob- This isn’t easy. We don’t usually think of animals as a target.

Elizabeth-  I carry pepper spray because of animals.  Very often I believe that I would rather spray a dog because they are just doing what comes naturally to them, in this case, however, the pepper spray didn’t work.  There may be a few reasons for that. Not all pepper spray is created equally. I recommend one with tested high levels of capsaicinoids. Really hot. Also practice with them.  They sell practice sprays that are just water so you can check your aim and try it first.

Rob- This was on a city street in the middle of the day.

Elizabeth- Remember the four safety rules? One of them is to know your target and what lies around it. Could anyone move between you and the dog as you shoot. You’re probably shooting down at the dog. Where will your bullets go if they bounce off the street?

Exit-  Rob- That wraps up this episode. Elizabeth, thank you for helping us today.  Where can we learn more about you?

Elizabeth- I instruct in Colorado Springs.  I teach small classes at my private range in Black Forest.  Students can contact me at Colorado Boots Firearms Instruction.

Rob- You can share your thoughts with us by leaving a message on the podcast facebook page.  

Elizabeth-  We share this podcast with you for free.  Please share it with a friend and give us a rating on I-Tunes and Stitcher.  We’re also available on Google Play Music.

Rob- I’m Rob Morse.  We’ll be back next week with more Self-Defense Gun Stories.

Please support Buckeye Firearms Foundation at https://www.buckeyefirearmsfoundation.org/

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Episode 104 with Amanda Suffecool

Can you protect yourself at home, at work, and as you drive? Firearms instructor Amanda Suffecool brings us three news stories of armed civilians who protected themselves.. and those they love. (16 minute audio podcast)

Rob- Introduction- Welcome to episode 104 of Self-Defense Gun Stories.  This podcast is for people who might want a firearm for self-defense, and for those who already have one.  I’m your host, Rob Morse. We have firearms instructor Amanda Suffecool with us as co-host.

Hi, Amanda.  How have you been?

Amanda- Hi, Rob.  We just had our fundraising event. We raised enough to support our programs for more than 6 months of the year. That covers our firearm education program called Realize Firearms Awareness Coalition. We also got a grant from the NRA to support our Woman’s Day On the Range program.  They are giving us a gun, ammo, targets and supplies. This really helps…

Rob- Please introduce our podcast to our new listeners.

Amanda- Each week we study three new examples of armed defense. What should we do if we were in their situation. Our first story took place last week in Miami Gardens, Florida.  Here’s what happened.

Rob- First story-  Are you armed at home?

You hear a loud thump from the front of your house. It is midday and you wonder if there was a traffic accident on the highway nearby. Then you hear it again and again. Your two kids are screaming. Someone is trying to break down your front door. You shout for your children to come to you. They are 10 and 3. They follow you to your bedroom and you tell them to stay there. The robber keeps banging and kicking at your door. You grab your shotgun. After a dozen attempts the door gives way. The robber comes face to face with a loaded shotgun. He runs. You call police.

Amanda, it seems this mom did a lot of things right.

Amanda-   the best way to win the confrontation is to avoid the confrontation.  She retreated, and then provided the defensive plan – should she have to use it.

Rob- Did the homeowner have the right to use lethal force and to press the trigger?

Amanda-  I think this was a WIN above all.  He was gone, she was safe, her kids know that MOM will defend but does not need to take (the final action) unless and until it’s called for.

Rob- Do you talk about this with your students?

Amanda- Our second story happened last week in Saint Paul, Minnesota.

Rob- Second Story-  Are you armed as you drive and to shopping after work?

You’re buying an iPhone. You found the seller online. You agree to meet after work. You drive up and start the sale. You examine the phone. You want it so you count out the cash. Then the seller pulls a gun out of his pocket and tells you to give him all your money. You hand it over. You also draw your firearm and shoot the robber. Then you run.

Later, you call police. They arrest the robber as he sought treatment at a local hospital.

Amanda-   This is one where the shooter-defender is once again having to defend their position.  Because once they fire – they are going to have to tell the police WHY they were in fear for their lives.   In this case it’s easy – there was an untrustworthy lowlife pointing a gun at you.

Rob- What would you tell your students to do in this situation?

Amanda-  Only one bit of advice – maybe two.  Aim better,

Rob- When do your students learn where to aim, and maybe how to shoot a target that is only a few feet away?

Amanda- Shooting at 5 yards is easy. 50 yards is hard, and half a yard is hard too. You don’t want to hand your attacker your gun. You don’t have time to use the sights even if you could.

and then call the police first.  First one to the phone gets to tell ALL the story, and not be on the defense.

Our third story happened last week in Arnold, Missouri.

Rob- First this break.

Please support Coloradans for Civil Liberties

Rob- Third story- Are you armed at work in the afternoon?  

You and your family own a pawn shop. The store is in the southern suburbs of Saint Louis. You have construction equipment chained up outside and the usual flow of customers. A young man comes in and walks up to the cash register. He draws a gun and demands the cash. You’re armed. You and your family are always armed. You draw and shoot your attacker until he drops his gun.

You retreat into the back of the store and call police.

Rob- That is a lot to think about.

Amanda- That is why you take a class. That is why you go to the range. You also have to listen to this podcast so you review your plans.

 You must have a business defence plan.  Who does what. When do you – if you get that ‘something is wrong’ feeling – notify others working in the store and HOW.   Have a code word, code sentence.

Amanda-   We use “Hey Rob, forgot to tell you – uncle Ed called.  Call him back” Uncle Ed, bless his heart, has been dead since the 70’s.   

Exit-  Rob- That wraps up this episode. Amanda, thank you for helping us today.  Where can we learn more about you?

Amanda- You can find me at eye on the target radio radio. I have two radio programs and I instruct on the weekends.

Rob- You can share your thoughts with us by leaving a message on the podcast facebook page.  

Amanda-  We share this podcast with you for free.  Please share it with a friend and give us a rating on I-Tunes and Stitcher.  We’re also available on Google Play Music.

Rob- I think the next time we talk will be at the NRA convention in Dallas.

I’m Rob Morse.  We’ll be back next week with more Self-Defense Gun 

Please support Doctors for responsible gun ownership, DRGO.us

 

Episode 103 with Ben Branam

Can you protect yourself at home, at work, and as you drive? Firearms instructor Ben Branam brings us three news stories of armed civilians who protected themselves.. and those they love. (15 minute audio podcast)

Rob- Introduction- Welcome to episode 103 of Self-Defense Gun Stories.  This podcast is for people who might want a firearm for self-defense, and for those who already have one.  I’m your host, Rob Morse. Firearms instructor Ben Branam joins us as co-host.

 

Rob- Please introduce our podcast to our new listeners.

Ben- We study three recent examples of armed defense to see what we can learn. What should we do if we were in this situation? Our first story took place last week in Travelers Rest, South Carolina.  Here is what happened.

Rob- First story-  Are you armed at home?

You’re at home at 10 in the evening. You hear someone breaking the back window of your home. You grab your gun and investigate. You see a stranger standing in the back of your home. He has a knife. You shout for him to leave. He shouts back. You shoot. Now he runs.

You call police.

The police find the robber next to your home and take him to the hospital. Your attacker was arrested for burglary and drug possession. He is out of state prison on parole.

 

 

Ben- Our second story happened last week in Avondale, Arizona.

Rob- Second Story-  Are you armed as you drive with your children?   

You were attacked by your boyfriend. You want to stay with your family for a few days, so you drive to your home to get some clothes. Your boyfriend appears from around the corner of the house. He orders you inside. Your child is in the car and you say you have to drop him off first. Your kidnapper gets in the car. He turns away and talks to the child. You grab his gun and get out of the car.

The kidnapper runs and you shoot at him. You call police and they find your attacker nearby. He is charged with aggravated assault, kidnapping, and possession of a weapon by a prohibited person.

Ben- Our third story happened last week in Aurora, Colorado.

Give a listen at http://www.armedlutheran.us/

Rob- Third story- Are you armed at work?

You’re a barber. You are at work in your shop when you hear gunshots coming from the small grocery store next door. You look outside and the glass at the front of the grocery store shatters. You get against the wall. A man runs out of the store and continues to shoot into the building the store owner chases him. The robber continues to shoot and you see that your neighbor is hit. You draw your firearm and shoot the robber. Now he runs. The Indian woman who owns the store in injured and you go to help her. Someone calls police.

Rob- That wraps up this episode. Ben, thank you for helping us today.  Where can we learn more about you?

Ben- You can find me at Modern Self Protection.com.  I live in San Antonio, and most of my classes are in central Texas.  I teach armed self-defense and church security. Listeners can see my class schedule at my website, and they can also listen to my podcast Modern Self-Protection.

Rob- You can share your thoughts with us by leaving a message on the podcast facebook page.  

Ben-  We share this podcast with you for free.  Please share it with a friend and give us a rating on I-Tunes and Stitcher.  We’re also available on Google Play Music.

Rob- I’m Rob Morse.  We’ll be back next week with more Self-Defense Gun Stories.

Please support the Crime Prevention Research Center at
http://crimeresearch.org/

Episode 102 with Tony Simon

Can you defend yourself at home? Firearms instructor Tony Simon brings us three news stories of armed civilians who protected themselves and those they love. (12 minute audio podcast)

Rob- Introduction- Welcome to episode 102 of Self-Defense Gun Stories.  This podcast is for people who might want a firearm, and for those who already have one.  I’m your host, Rob Morse. We have firearms instructor Tony Simon as co-host this week.

Hi, Tony.  How have you been?

Tony- Hi, Rob.  I’ve designed a $10  2nd Amendment Rally Tee shirt that can be used at 2A rallies across the country.

Rally Tees

https://www.facebook.com/simonsaystrain/photos/a.165204353687527.1073741828.149298195278143/774072966133993/?type=3&theater

2A speech in NJ Assembly

I am still hosting the 2nd is For Everyone: Diversity Shoots and Minuteman Challenge shooting competition.

Rob- After that introduction, please explain our podcast to our new listeners.

Tony- Each week we study three recent examples of armed defense to see what we can learn. Our first story took place last week in Jacksonville, Florida.  Here is what happened.

Rob- First story-  Are you armed at home?  

You’re at home in your apartment around noon. You answer the knock at your door. Two men push their way inside. One of them has a gun. You back away and run upstairs. Your attackers follow you. You draw yours and fire. Both men run. They jump out the upstairs window. You call police. The police arrest one wounded robber a few blocks away.

Tony- Don’t open the door. It isn’t rude to talk to strangers through a door. Your door is the final layer of perimeter security keeping people outside of your home. This homeowner had to get into a foot race with two home intruders.

Carry a gun on your person, Pants on,  Gun on.

Rob- What did our homeowner do correctly?

Tony- He didn’t give up. He backed up and that bought him time.

Tony- Our second story happened last week in Washington County, Oregon.

Rob- Second Story- Are you armed at home?   

You’re at home on a friday morning. You hear someone in your home. That doesn’t make sense, so you go look what’s happening. A man is standing in your kitchen. You yell at him. He grabs a knife from the kitchen counter. You draw your firearm and tell him to drop the knife and not move. You grab your phone and call police. You also take a picture of the robber. He runs, but is picked up the next day by police.

Tony- Please lock your doors. That makes most thieves go away. Your locked door also gives you more time to react.

Having your self defense tool on your body gives you options and opportunity that an unarmed defender won’t have. You have a purpose made tool for defensive use so you don’t have to search for an improvised weapon.

Tony- Let the thugs go..but I have to give our homeowner style points for taking a photograph.

Rob- Let the second home owner take a photo once he’s off the phone with police.

Tony- Our third story happened last week in Fulton County, Georgia.

Please join and support the Second Amendment Foundation at SAF.org

Rob- Third story- Are you armed at home?

Your mom came by to take your son to the doctors. You are inside your house and your mom has your son loaded into the car. You hear your mom scream. You’re armed and you go outside to see what is happening. An armed man is pointing a gun at your mom. You shoot him several times. He runs to the waiting car and drives away. You check on your son, and then call police.

Tony- How long does it take to go to your back closet, get your gun, get your ammunition, load your magazine, put the loaded magazine into your gun, rack the slide and run to the front of the house.

Rob- too long.

Tony- exactly. Have a loaded gun on you because you won’t have time for anything else.

Rob- This isn’t as simple as it sounds. I have to defend my mom and my son while a robber and kidnapper is standing next to them.

Tony- We can practice being both fast and accurate. Go to the range and shoot a man sized target at 5 yards, and on out to 20 yards. The easy part is to notice how long it takes you to make those hits at the range. Then you have to give yourself the time you need even though your mom is facing a gun. That is the hard part.

Exit-  Rob- That wraps up this episode. Tony, thank you for helping us today.  Where can we learn more about you?

Tony- My website is DiversityShoot.com

Rob- You can share your thoughts with us by leaving a message on the podcast facebook page.  

Tony-   If you liked this show, then you’ll like the other podcasts on the Self-defense radio network. We share this podcast with you for free.  Please share it with a friend and give us a rating on I-Tunes and Stitcher.  We’re also available on Google Play Music.

Rob- I’m Rob Morse.  We’ll be back next week with more Self-Defense Gun Stories.

Episode 101 with Andee Reardon

Can you defend yourself at home? Firearms instructor Andee Reardon brings us three news stories of armed civilians who protected themselves and those they love. (15 minute audio podcast)

Rob- Introduction- Welcome to episode 101 of Self-Defense Gun Stories.  This podcast is for people who might want a firearm, and for those who already have one.  I’m your host, Rob Morse. We have firearms instructor Andee Reardon as co-host this week.

Hi, Andee.  How have you been?

Andee- Hi, Rob.  

It’s been busy, We are still digging out from the last snow storm and preparing for another one tonight!

 Two days ago I held a concealed carry clinic for women at a local gun shop! We packed the room with women and had a great time.

Rob- That is good to hear. Please introduce our podcast to our new listeners.

Andee- Each week at Self Defense Gun Stories we study three recent examples of armed defense to see what we can learn. Our first story took place last week in Corpus Christi, Texas.  Here is what happened.

Rob- First story-  Are you armed at home?  

You’re at home at 1:30 in the morning. You hear glass breaking at the front of your apartment. You also hear voices. You grab your gun you see your ex-boyfriend in your front room. He sees your gun and runs away. You follow him out the door. You shoot at him. Your neighbors tackle him, but he gets up and runs away. Now you call police.

After the police arrive, someone points out your ex-boyfriend’s car in the parking lot. He’s come back. Now the police chase him until he crashes his car.

Your ex-boyfriend was arrested on suspicion of burglary with intent to commit another crime, evading arrest, evading arrest in a vehicle and resisting arrest. He is in jail waiting to make his at $37,000 bail.

Andee- I wouldn’t want to wake up and get into a physical fight at 1:30 in the morning. I’m glad the homeowner was armed.

Rob- I don’t want that fight, and I’m a guy over 6ft tall.

Andee- That is why a plan is important. The moment the attacker started to run, the victim should have stayed in a safe area and waited for police. Most states don’t see it as self defense if the attacker is running away and you chase them.

Rob- You talk to your students about what to do if they are attacked? It is a legal jeopardy if you chase your attacker.

Andee- It is more than that. You’re also putting yourself in danger not knowing if he is running to retrieve a weapon or if there are more suspects outside with him. You’re inviting trouble and giving up the advantage you hold. By leaving the house you’re losing your use of cover.

Rob- It is pretty easy to stay in your bedroom and defend your doorway. It is harder to protect yourself when you’re out on the street.

Andee- One more thing, the time you spend chasing the bad guy is time your wasting when you could call the police and get help on the way.

Rob- Is there more?

Andee- A lot of my students were in abusive relationships. Women are at their greatest risk while leaving or just after leaving a relationship with an abuser. This man was so intent on hurting her he was willing to come back even when police were present. This is why I’m such a big advocate for gun rights, I want women to have the ability to keep themselves safe.

Rob- You talk to your students about that issue?

Andee- Yes, I’ve helped women make safety plans, install alarms and cameras and trained them in self defense and firearms. It’s a very dangerous time for them. I do what I can to keep them safe and teach them what to do if things get worse.

Our second story happened last week in Bunker Hill, West Virginia.

Rob- Second Story-  Are you armed at home in the morning.

You hear your dogs bark. Whatever is going on, they sure don’t like it. A second later you hear glass breaking at the back of your home. You grab your 9mm handgun and investigate. You see someone standing in your kitchen. You fire a warning shot into the floor and tell him to lie down. He comes toward you and you shoot again. You shoot him in the leg and he lies down. You call police.

They arrest the robber and take him to the hospital and then to jail. He’s being held on a 100 thousand dollar bond.

Andee- Aren’t dogs great? I teach my students to be aware of their dogs behavior and utilize them as alarm systems. Who knows what would have happened if this family did not own a dog.

Rob- I’ll have to buy an alarm instead.

Andee- Who knows what would have happened if they did not have a gun in the home. I’m glad they did but I did notice a few things that could have been done better.

Rob- What’s that?
Andee- The first thing was the warning shot. Using verbal commands and pointing your gun at the intruder should be all warning they need. You are responsible for every round you shoot. When you feel your life is being imminent danger, that is when you shoot.

Rob- Good idea. No warning shots.

Andee- The homeowner shot the man in the leg. I don’t know if that was intentional, the fact that he fired a warning shot makes me think it may have been. When you shoot in self defense it’s important to fire at what we call “center mass” which is the chest area. You need to stop the threat as quickly as possible. Shooting at the leg may not stop the attacker and under stress would be easy to miss altogether.

Rob- A gun is a lethal tool. Don’t use it or threaten to use it unless you’re facing a lethal threat.

Andee- There is an idea that being shot in the leg isn’t lethal. It is. Some of your largest arteries are down there. A gunshot can be lethal no matter where you shoot, and it is always considered as the use of lethal force.

Rob- Give me one more comment before we go on to our last story.

Andee- Two people lived in the home. If you can then grab your gun, close your door, and call the police. If there are two of you, then one can defend while the other one handles communications. Believe it or not, but you can’t talk and shoot at the same time. Protect yourself first.

Rob- That is the plan we talked about.

Andee- Exactly. Our third story happened last week in Austin, Texas.

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Rob- Third story- Do you have a gun nearby when you are in your bedroom?

You and your wife are asleep in your bed. You wake up when your wife nudges you. You thought it was your son talking to you, but you look up to see a stranger standing at the foot of your bed with a knife in one hand and a stick in the other.

The stranger says, ‘hey man . . . my wife is under the house and Chuck Norris is waiting for me and I’m having a hard time.’

You slowly reach for your gun and point it at the intruder. You dial 911.

The homeowner said the intruder never lunged toward him but appeared mentally disturbed. “If he’d had a gun rather than a knife I would have fired.”

Andee- I told you that dogs were a good idea. This man said his german shepherd would have torn the intruder apart but wasn’t in the home that night.

They are extremely lucky, if the intruder was able to stand over them while they were sleeping he could have killed them. Maybe they always depended on the dog to alert them and because the dog wasn’t home they didn’t wake up.  I wonder how he got in. Were the doors locked? Make sure an intruder has to break in rather than walk in. Even a simple alarm would help in a situation like this.

Rob- Should the homeowner have used his gun?

Andee- He did use it, but he didn’t need to press the trigger. He may have had the legal justification to shoot the intruder, but the homeowner did not see an immediate threat. He re-evaluated the situation and decided not to shoot.

Rob- What else?

Andee- The couple was in their bedroom so they could have used teamwork. One on defense. The other on the phone.

Rob- That is our theme for this episode.

Andee- There’s one more thing I want to know….

Did anyone find out what Chuck Norris was doing when this was happening??

Exit-  Rob- That wraps up this episode. Andee, thank you for helping us today.  Where can we learn more about you?

Andee- You can find me at EastCoastSchoolofSafety.com and on my facebook and Instagram pages with the same name.

Rob- You can share your thoughts with us by leaving a message on the podcast facebook page.  Blake wrote in and said he was surprised. Everyone says that carrying a gun is uncomfortable, but Blake doesn’t find it so. He carries a Glock 19 in the appendix position inside the waistband. He says the only time he notices the gun is if he has to bend over to tie his shoes.

Andee- It is great to hear from you, Blake, and thank you for carrying. Finding the right gun and holster for you can be challenging. It’s even harder for women! That’s why I started doing the concealed carry clinics for women, it’s a great way to learn what others like and dislike and try some out before you buy.

Rob- We carry concealed and so can you.

Andee- We share this podcast with you for free.  Please share it with a friend and give us a rating on I-Tunes and Stitcher.  We’re also available on Google Play Music.

Rob- I’m Rob Morse.  We’ll be back next week with more Self-Defense Gun Stories.

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Episode 100 with Tiffany Johnson

Can you protect yourself at home and at work? Tiffany Johnson brings us three news stories of armed civilians who protected themselves and those they love. (19 minute audio podcast)

Rob- Introduction- Welcome to episode 100 of Self-Defense Gun Stories.  This podcast is for people who might want a firearm, and for those who already have one.  I’m your host, Rob Morse. We have firearms instructor Tiffany Johnson as co-host this week.

Hi, Tiffany. This is your first episode. Please say hello.

Tiffany- Hi, Rob.

Rob- Now that you’ve introduced yourself, please introduce our podcast.

Tiffany- Each week we study three recent examples of armed defense. Our first story took place last week in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. Here is what happened.

Rob- First story-  Are you armed as you go to work?

You have to arrive at work before 6AM. It is still dark when you follow other cars into the lot. You park, and before you can get out of your car, another car pulls up right behind you. There is a man with a gun standing at your door. You’re armed  and have your concealed carry license. It isn’t clear from the story if you shot while you were seated or if you got out of the car first.

The car behind you takes off. You call police. They said your attacker had two felony convictions.

Tiffany- have a gun

Rob-

Tiffany- have a plan. Are you going to defend yourself from inside your car? Have you practiced that?

Rob- Where would your students learn to present a firearm while they were sitting down?

Tiffany- call the police, follow instructions

Tiffany- Our second story happened last week in Hemet, California.

Rob- Second Story-  Do you have a gun accessible at night?

You are a couple in your 70s. It is after midnight when you hear someone break into your home. The male homeowner gets out of bed and grabs his firearm. He finds a stranger in the bathroom. The intruder attacks the male homeowner. Eventually, you shoot your attacker..and so does the female homeowner..with her 357 revolver.

The intruder runs away. He is out on parole with a long record of convictions.

Tiffany- disparity of force

Tiffany- hard to combine a physical struggle and a gun fight. This takes training and practice since guns are usually distance tools.

Rob- Where would your students learn to use a firearm on an attacker that is within arms reach.

Tiffany- Our third story happened last week in Swansboro, North Carolina

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Rob- Third story- Are you armed when you are driving your car?

You’re driving your car down the road at 9 in the morning. You notice a police car ahead. The officer and another man are wrestling in the ditch at the side of the road. You stop your car. As you walk towards the officer you draw your firearm. The suspect sees your gun and rolls over on his stomach.

You holster your firearm as police arrive. The vehicle the officer stopped was being used as a meth lab. The suspect was charged with possession of methamphetamine, resisting a public officer, possession of drug paraphernalia and driving with a revoked license.

Tiffany- third party- innocence

Tiffany- good that he had a gun

Tiffany- He didn’t need to use it, but it was a persuasive and deciding deterrent.

Rob- Do you talk about defending a third party with your students?

Exit-  Rob- That wraps up this episode. Tiffany, thank you for helping us today.  Where can we learn more about you?

Tiffany- My website is Front Sight Press and I instruct at Citizens Safety Academy and Rangemaster

Rob- You can share your thoughts with us by leaving a message on the podcast facebook page.

Tiffany- We share this podcast with you for free.  Please share it with a friend and give us a rating on I-Tunes and Stitcher.  We’re also available on Google Play Music.

Rob- I’m Rob Morse.  We’ll be back next week with more Self-Defense Gun Stories.

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Episode 99 with David Cole

Can you protect yourself at home and at work? David Cole brings us three news stories of armed civilians who protected themselves and those they love. (17 minute audio podcast)

Rob- Introduction- Welcome to episode 99 of Self-Defense Gun Stories.  This podcast is for people who might want a firearm, and for those who have one and want to learn more.  I’m your host, Rob Morse.  We have firearms instructor David Cole as co-host this week.

Hi, David.  How have you been?

David- Hi, Rob.  I’ve been loading ammo and helping coach new shooters at USPSA clinics at my club.

David, please introduce our podcast.

David- Each week we study three recent examples of armed defense to see what we can learn. Our first story took place last week in Miami, Florida.   

Rob- First story-   Do you have a gun nearby at night?

You’re a 55 year old woman. You wake up at 1:30 in the morning to the sound of glass breaking. There are other people living in your home with you. You grab your gun and move toward the sound.

You see an intruder in your home and he moves toward you. You shoot him and call the police.

You’re a 25 year old veteran of customs and border patrol. Your intruder is a repeat criminal who is out on parole.

David- Usually barricading in your room is best, but what if there are other in the house who need defending? Kids? A room mate? Learning to move through a structure with a gun is a skill, and doing it properly requires training.

Also, the conventional wisdom is to barricade, but I’m not sure that it always reflects reality. Are we really going to barricade and call the police for every unidentified bump in the night? I don’t think so. I’m not talking about when you know that there is clearly wrong…repeated banging, crashing, footsteps. We hear things like that, we know something is wrong.

But who hasn’t heard a noise and you weren’t sure what it was? Is someone in the house, or was it the bag of trash you set by the door, to take out in the morning, falling over. You’re going to go have a look. You need to learn how to do that correctly and safely.

Rob- You don’t want to shoot your roommate.

David- Barricaded or not, you MUST have a flashlight. The primary reason is target identification…failure to properly identify a threat can land you in prison. There is a lot of misconception around castle doctrine, and a lot of people believe that it means you can legally shoot any trespasser inside your home. Different states may vary a bit, but usually all castle doctrine does is remove the duty to retreat inside your home; some allow for the assumption of intent to harm.

And besides the legal issue, there’s moral issue: Do you REALLY want to shoot someone if you don’t have to…even if legally justified? I don’t. One hypothetical I use to drive this home with folks who don’t get it is this: You hear a noise in the night. You go to check, find your front door splintered, and an obviously drunk man passed out on your couch. It is legal in your state to shoot him. Do you do it? It’s perfectly legal; you will not be arrested or charged. Do you shoot him? Everyone always answers no. I ask why not, and they answer that he is not a threat. Bingo.

David- Low light. You won’t have a clear picture of your sights. Lasers can help, but are no substitute for light. Of course, most of our homes have lights in them, which can be turned on by a switch on the wall…you can use those, too. It was Always funny to watch a new police officer try to clear a building in the dark, rather than just turning the lights on.

Rob – What about giving away your position?

David- We hear this all the time, and I don’t believe it is a concern in most civilian situations. If there is no one there, no harm done. If they are a typical burglar, they are not going to hang around for a gunfight. Not only am I going to turn the lights on, I’m going to shout to them that I am armed. And remember, I’m only going out there if I need to secure another person, or if I am unsure that there is a threat. If those conditions aren’t met, I don’t need to leave my room. I’m going to barricade, call the police, and let the bad guys come to me.

use of cover or concealment. We see motion at night and in our peripheral vision. Use your corners to your advantage. Take a finger-gun and go look at yourself in the mirror. See how little of yourself you need to expose in order to see the target and have a sight picture.

Rob- When do you talk about this with your students?

David- It typically comes up when we talk about legal use of deadly force, and much of the time, they’ll ask about the law concerning home defense before it even comes up in the lesson.

Our second story happened last week in Mitchellville, Maryland.

Rob- Second Story-  Are you armed at home after dark?   

You’re an 83 year old retired school teacher. You live alone. You get up around midnight to take your medication and then you go back to bed. A few minutes later you hear a crashing sound from your basement. You grab your gun from under your pillow. The basement door is locked, but you can see the door from your room. The intruder kicks in your basement door and enters the house. You shoot him twice.

The intruder runs away and you call police. Police take your intruder to the hospital.

David- This is different than our first story because this homeowner doesn’t have anyone living with him. He can wait and make the robber come to him. That is good combat tactics and good legal tactics.

Rob- explain that a little more.

David- Just as we discussed earlier, just because it’s legal to shoot doesn’t mean you should. Personally, morally I don’t want to shoot anyone I don’t have to. But from a legal perspective, even if the letter of the law supports you, you don’t want an overzealous prosecutor portraying you as “hunting down” your “victim.” It happens. If shooting is necessary, then do what must be done.

If I was in a situation like this, where I know I hear someone in the house, coming up the stairs, I’m going straight to our barricade/call PD strategy. I am also going to announce that I am armed and that the police have been called, loudly. This may or may not deter the burglar, but I am going to let him know clearly “I know you are there. I am armed.” I am going to do my best to convince him that he is better off going somewhere else.

Rob- There are a bunch of things I want to do, and I want them all at once. What do we do first.

David- Defensive tool first. Lock your door. Call the police. Win the race to the phone.

Rob- When do your students practice using a flashlight and hiding behind a corner?

I mostly teach only basic concealed carry, and those classes don’t really allow sufficient time to practice those skills, but we do discuss them. I do offer customizable “coaching packages” which can include those skills if a student chooses to take some continuing training.

For our listeners, I would add that there is very little in the typical home which could be considered cover…which stops a bullet. Drywall does a very poor job of stopping bullets, and something more substantial is necessary for that sort of protection. Think about what you might use to fortify your barricade location a little better…heavy wood furniture, etc.

David- Our third story happened last week in Tampa, Florida.

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Rob- Third story- Are you armed at work late at night?

You work in a convenience store. It is 2AM when a customer walks in..only this customer has a gun in his hands. The robber demands the money and waves his gun at you. You open the cash register. You also grab the gun that sits underneath it. You shoot your attacker. The attacker runs.

You follow him and call police.

The Tampa police released this statement. “This is sort of typical self-defense stuff,” said Lt. Urbinas. “If somebody’s threatening you with a firearm, anybody — a clerk, the general public — you have a right to defend yourself. And you can use deadly force if you’re faced with deadly force.”

David- Good that he had a gun.

 The victim had the will to win. I don’t know what he said to the robber, but we know what he did. He put his self-defense plan in place. He grabbed his gun and shot his attacker.

From the news story, it sounds like this might have been a close quarters struggle, which can really complicate things. It is difficult enough to shoot accurately under stress, even more so when you are physically entangled with the attacker, at extreme close quarters.

Some training in extreme close quarters shooting could have helped our defender. It is a very specialized skill, and very dangerous to practice without proper training. I have done some close quarters shooting drills, and it can be very unsettling to have the gun going off that close to your body, and it is very easy to make a mistake and injure yourself.

Fortunately, the leg hit that our good guy made on his attacker was enough…this time. But if his attacker had been more committed to the fight, it might have ended differently. The fact that the robber was able to run away tells us that he could have continued the fight if he wanted to. We can’t depend on our attacker giving up just because we got a hit on an extremity.

Rob- what else do you see.

I tell my students not to follow their attacker. Let them go once they run away.

Rob- How can I do the right thing under that much stress.

Win the call to the police. Win the legal battle. If your business is at risk of robbery, then you should have video cameras. Video cameras can help you win the second fight, the legal fight. But you have to win the first fight…well, first. Defend your life first, but prepare to win the court battle as well.

Exit-  Rob- That wraps up this episode. David, thank you for helping us today.  Where can we learn more about you?

David- Our listeners can find me at Black Man With A Gun and on my Aegis Solutions Facebook page.

Rob- You can share your thoughts with us by leaving a message on the podcast facebook page.  

David-  We share this podcast with you for free.  Please share it with a friend and give us a rating on I-Tunes and Stitcher.  We’re also available on Google Play Music.

Rob- I’m Rob Morse.  We’ll be back next week with more Self-Defense Gun Stories.

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Episode 98 with Elizabeth Hautman

Can you protect yourself at home and away? Learn how. Elizabeth Hautman brings us three news stories of armed civilians who protected themselves and those they love. (15 minute audio podcast)

Rob- Introduction- Welcome to episode 98 of Self-Defense Gun Stories.  This podcast is for people who might want a firearm, and for those who have one and want to learn more about how to use it.  I’m your host, Rob Morse.  We have firearms instructor Elizabeth Hautman as co-host this week.

Hi, Elizabeth.  How have you been?

Elizabeth- Hi, Rob.  I’ve been well, a mild winter has been great for students as we shoot in our beautiful winter weather. ????

Rob- Elizabeth, please introduce our podcast.

Elizabeth- Each week we study three recent examples of armed defense. Our first story took place last week in Blakely, Georgia. Here is what happened.

Rob- First story-  Are you armed as you arrive home?

It is late on a Saturday evening. You arrive home with your 12 year old daughter. Your daughter walks into her room and you head into your room and then the kitchen. The report isn’t clear who noticed it first, but you walk into your daughters room and notice something wrong with her bedroom window. A strange man comes out of your daughter’s closet. You yell at him and he attacks you. You fight with him..with the spoon you have in your hand. You and your daughter retreat. You get your gun and shoot your attacker. He stumbles away. Some news reports say you used a shotgun. Others say you could have used a handgun.

Now you and your daughter retreat to your bedroom and lock the door.  You call 911. The police find your attacker outside and unresponsive.

Your attacker was a convicted sex offender. His car was located a few blocks away behind a motel.

Elizabeth- Slow start. Good finish. POGO.

Elizabeth- Our second story happened last week in Dekalb County, Georgia.

Rob- Second Story-  Are you armed as you go shopping?

You want to buy a bottle of liquor. You drive to the store and start comparing brands. The store owner and another employee are getting ready to close. You make your selection and move towards the cash register. Three men enter the store and announce a robbery. They point guns at the clerk and the store owner. You’re armed. One of the robbers shoots the store owner. You draw your firearms and shoot the robber in the back. The robber stops attacking the store owner. You shoot at the next robber closest to you. The third robber is out the door before you can shoot at him.

Police arrive and take you in for questioning. The store owner and two of the robbers are taken to the hospital.

Elizabeth- All your examples last week were about armed citizens defending others. Good for them, and good for this man as well. It is clear that self-defense was justified because the robber shot the store owner.

Rob- Hospital or morgue.

Elizabeth- He was armed. He saw a lethal threat. He saved a life.

Rob- Are you justified in shooting all three robbers even though only one of them shot the store owner?

Elizabeth- Our third story happened last week in Ada, Oklahoma.

Learn more at SAF Training Division.

Rob- Third story- Are you armed when you’re at home?

You’re asleep in your bed. It is three AM when you hear something unexpected from inside your home. It is the sound of breaking glass. You roll out of bed and grab your gun from your nightstand. You walk into your house. The intruder is using a flashlight to look around your home. You yell at him when you hear him shoot at you several times.  You return fire and shoot your attacker. He runs. You are very shaken, but uninjured.

The police find your attacker as he was driving away with his accomplice. The two men are connected to 10 other burglaries. Your attacker has several felony charges against him including domestic abuse. Your attacker’s sons are in prison for murder or awaiting trial for murder.

Elizabeth- There are bad guys out there.

Elizabeth- This homeowner put his life at risk by investigating a breakin. Let the police do that. Lock your door. Call the police. You want to have a broken window and a smashed in door so the police know you were defending yourself.

Elizabeth- Insurance?

Exit-  Rob- That wraps up this episode. Elizabeth, thank you for helping us today.  Where can we learn more about you?

Elizabeth- I instruct in Colorado Springs.  I teach small classes at my private range in Black Forest.  Students can contact me at Colorado Boots Firearms Instruction.

Rob- You can share your thoughts with us by leaving a message on the podcast facebook page.  

Elizabeth-   If you liked this show, then you’ll like the other podcasts on the Self-defense radio network.  

We share this podcast with you for free.  Please share it with a friend and give us a rating on I-Tunes and Stitcher.  We’re also available on Google Play Music.

Rob- I’m Rob Morse.  We’ll be back next week with more Self-Defense Gun Stories.

Give a listen at http://www.armedlutheran.us/

Episode 97 with Ben Branam

Can you protect yourself away from home? Learn how. Ben Branam brings us three news stories of armed civilians who protected other people. (16 minute audio podcast)

Rob- Introduction- Welcome to episode 97 of Self-Defense Gun Stories.  This podcast is for people who might want a firearm, and for those who have one and want to learn more.  I’m your host, Rob Morse.  We have firearms instructor Ben Branam as co-host this week.

Hi, Ben.  How have you been?

Ben- Hi, Rob.  I’ve been really busy with my day job.  We had fun with Bill Frady on Lock and Load Radio. (Starting here)  On this podcast, we study three recent examples of armed defense. Our first story took place last week in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. Here is what happened.

Rob- First story-  Are you armed when you’re walking on the street?

You’re a woman in your thirties. It is mid-morning and you’re walking down the street. You hear a woman scream. You see a man attacking the woman who delivers your mail. The attacker has the mailwoman down on the ground and is pulling at her clothes. You yell for him to stop. He won’t. You step near the attacker, draw your gun, and shoot into the ground. Now the man stops attacking the woman.  He stands up and runs at you. You shoot into the ground in front of him. He stops and runs away. You turn back to the victim of the sexual assault and ask her if she is ok. She is shaken. The police arrive in minutes and tell you to put the gun down. You follow their instructions. The police find the attacker in a nearby alley.

Ben- Great that our defender was armed. She had a gun on her so she could help herself and other people who clearly needed it.

Rob- How do we know the mail carrier needed help?

Ben- She was mounted with a larger attacker on top of her. The mail carrier faced a lethal threat or great bodily harm. Rape is considered great bodily harm.

Rob- And that is the legal justification for using lethal force?

Ben- Yes. If someone is trying to kill you, you can shoot them to defend yourself. If someone is trying to choke you unconscious or rape you, you can shoot them to defend yourself.

Rob- But they weren’t attacking me or the armed defender.

Ben- Right. You have the right to use lethal force because the sexual assault victim had that right. You are doing it for her. You’re acting like a bodyguard and you get your legal justification from the rights of the victim.

Rob- Because the mail carrier had the right to defend herself, I have the right to defend her?

Ben- Exactly. I wish that this defender had been in my class because we talk about that. She would have known that she could shoot the attacker rather than shoot near him.

Rob- Could you say more about that?

Ben- Not right now. We’ll talk about warning shots later. I want to go back to what the defender did correctly. She followed the instructions that the police gave her. They said put the gun down. She complied immediately and didn’t argue. That is not the time to explain that you’re the good person. Drop your gun so the police don’t shoot you.  They are going to secure the scene before they do anything else. The faster you comply the faster the police can help the sexual assault victim.

Rob- Is there more.

Ben- Lots more, but I’ll save some of it for the next story. Our second story happened last week in Actworth, Georgia.

Rob- Second Story-  Are you armed when you are out to eat?

It is very early Saturday morning. You’re having breakfast at a restaurant. You look up as two men enter in hurry. They are wearing hoodies..and have guns drawn. They demand the money from the cash register. They are pointing their guns at the clerk behind the counter. You’re armed. You draw your firearm and shoot at the robbers. They run. You check on the clerk and call police.

Ben- Good he had a gun. Draw from a seated position at a table. Similar to presenting when you’re in your car.

Why miss? Don’t send warning shots. Justified or not. Civilians can’t use a firearm as a tool of intimidation.  That is what the bad guys do.  We don’t do that.

Ben- Our third story happened last week in Springville, Utah.

Rob- First this message GFR

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Rob- Third story- Are you armed when you’re driving your car?

You’re driving on Main Street just after noon. This has to be the safest place in the world at the safest time of day. You look over and see a police car with its light flashing. The officer is on the ground and another man is on top of him hitting the police officer. You stop your car and get out. You have your carry permit. You’re armed. You shout for the attacker to stop. He doesn’t. You draw your gun and then the attacker stops. He runs away. Police arrive and you put your gun away.

The injured police officer was taken to the hospital with broken bones in his face. The attacker was arrested and has a lengthy police record..

Ben- This is the week for stories about helping a third party.

Rob- I knew you could handle it.

Ben- We have an unarmed mail carrier. A clerk in a waffle house, and an armed cop.

Rob- And more.

Ben- That’s right. Each of the victims were at risk of death or great bodily injury.

Rob- and no one died in each case, so what is going on here?

Ben- Remember how we get our justification from the victim? We’re betting our freedom that the person we think is the victim didn’t start the fight. The mail carrier didn’t start the fight. The clerk behind the counter at Waffle house didn’t start the fight. Here, the police officer didn’t start the fight. The presumption of innocence is pretty strong in this case. That might not be true for your uncle Bob.

Rob- Was our armed responder justified in shooting and perhaps killing the attacker?

Ben- Being on your back and being hit means the attacker has a disparity of force.

Exit-  Rob- Ben, that wraps up this episode. Thank you for helping us today. Where can we learn more about you?

Ben- You can find me at Modern Self Protection.com.  I live in San Antonio, and most of my classes are in central Texas.  I teach armed self-defense and church security. Listeners can see my complete class schedule at my website, and they can also listen to my podcast Modern Self-Protection.

Rob- You can share your thoughts with us by leaving a message on the podcast facebook page.  

Ben-   If you liked this show, then you’ll like the other podcasts on the Self-defense radio network.  

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Rob- I’m Rob Morse.  We’ll be back next week with more Self-Defense Gun Stories.