Episode 122 with Elizabeth Hautman

Can you defend yourself at home, in public, at work, and as you drive? How will you protect your family when there is no time to think? You need a plan. Instructor Elizabeth Hautman brings us four new stories of self-defense. (25 minute audio podcast)

Rob- Introduction- Welcome to episode 122 of Self-Defense Gun Stories.  This podcast is for people who are thinking about a firearm for self-defense, and for those who already own own. I’m your host, Rob Morse. We have self defense instructor Elizabeth Hautman with us as co-host.

Hi, Elizabeth.  I know you’ve been teaching and advertising at summer fairs the last few weeks.

Elizabeth- Hi, Rob.  I’ve been working and shooting and I even got to watch the outhouse races.

Rob- Elizabeth, someone asked us how they can listen. Most people have an application on their cell phone that automatically loads each new episode. Please tell our new listeners what they have in their pocket.

Elizabeth- We’re going to look at several news stories about armed defense.  These gun owners survived a life threatening situation, but were they lucky, or smart, or did they have a plan? What should we do if we were in their place, and how would we learn those new skills?

Our first story took place last week in Elmira, New York.

Rob- First story-  Do you have a gun nearby when your family is waking up early in the morning?  

It is Sunday morning, so you get to sleep in. You’re at home with your wife and four young children. You’re jolted awake when you hear a crashing sound from the front of your house. Someone kicked in your front door. You keep a shotgun in the corner. You grab your gun and walk toward the front of the house. A stranger is standing in your house and walks toward you. You shoot him once. Now he turns around. You stop shooting.

Your wife grabs the children and calls police. The intruder was a felon who served time for robbery.

Rob- This story sounds scary, but is it that unusual?

Elizabeth- Self defense thousands of times a day. Most are assaults in public, but many of them are inside your home or business.

Rob- What is the first thing we should do to defend ourselves?

Elizabeth- Have a plan to protect yourself and your family. That usually means you’ll want a gun as part of your plan.

Rob- You didn’t say, get your gun. You said the first thing to do is to make a plan.

Elizabeth- Once you’re attacked there is too much to do and no time to do it. That is why you want to talk about this and rehearse the possible scenarios ahead of time with your spouse..and later as they grow up, with your children.   Just like when I taught my children about fire drills. It is not to panic them but to equip them with the skills and knowledge to handle the situation. And every child is different, as the parent, you get to decide at what level and how much information that will educate your children but not scare them.

Rob- What comes first.

Elizabeth- If you had a fire then you’d wake up your family and get them out of the house. Then you’d grab a fire fighting tool like a fire extinguisher. If you had an intruder, you’d grab your defensive tool, your gun, and your spouse grabs the kids and then calls 911.

The man grabbed a gun and went to investigate, because it was not a door to door salesman knocking at the door, it was an intruder who kicked his way inside. Your family is in danger right now and protecting them comes first.

Rob- That means a lot, because I could waste a lot of time calling 911 when I needed to protect my family.

Elizabeth- It sounds like the adults worked together. Someone called the police before the intruder was shot. I imagine that was the wife making a call on her cell phone. That’s great. She updated the police after shots were fired and her family was safe. If you can, stay on the phone until the police arrive. That is hard to do as you take care of four children.

Rob- What do you recommend for home defense.

Elizabeth- This is what I tell my students. If you conceal carry, then use the tool you know best. That may be your handgun. If you’re a hunter who doesn’t carry a handgun every day, then again use the tool you’re most comfortable with.

Rob- What would you tell a stay at home mom or dad to carry?  This question comes up in my classes quite a bit.

Elizabeth- I want them to get a permit and carry all the time. Until then, carry on body at home. You say you’re a stay at home parent, but your out of the home a lot. You go to school, to the store, to the gym, to the mailbox or to a neighbor’s house. You might be working in the yard. I want you to have your defensive tool all the time, that means a handgun that is carried on your body.

You took driving lessons to drive a car. You’d take swimming lessons if you didn’t know how to swim, or take lessons to learn how to ride a horse or scuba dive. We aren’t born knowing those things. Take a class and learn how to use your defensive tool.

Rob- Do you give your students homework?

Elizabeth- I do. Sometimes I go to their home and we walk through it together.  Sometimes another pair of eyes can look at situations and floorplans in different ways.  I can also suggest tools to keep your firearm accessible and unavailable to unauthorized people – kids…

Rob- What sort of things are you looking for.

Elizabeth- Start with inexpensive fixes – trim hedges away from the house – eliminating dark hiding places for bad guys, proper lighting, possible timers with different schedules to turn lights on and off when you are not around – especially as fall approaches and it is getting dark earlier.  Deadbolts, gun safes,

Rob- Anything else?

Elizabeth- That is enough for now. Our second story happened last week in Redding, California.

Rob- Second Story-  Are you armed when you’re helping someone with their homework?   

You’re visiting your girlfriend. It is a weeknight and lots of people are in the house. Your girlfriend’s cousin is working on homework and you are helping her. You’re also holding a four month old infant in your arms. Two men start a loud argument, and the homeowner tells them to go outside. They go outside, but they keep fighting.

You walk outside and ask them to stop. One of the men attacks you as you’re holding the infant. He hits you in the face several times. The child slips from your arms, but you catch her before she hits the ground.

You own a gun. You have your concealed carry permit. You’re carrying concealed today. You draw your gun and shoot your attacker once in the chest. Now he stops hitting you.

You shout for other people to call police. You stay on the porch until the police arrive.

EMTs said your attacker was dead when they arrived. The police identified your attacker and said he was a registered sex offender and had a long record of crimes and run-ins with the law.

Elizabeth- This is important?

Rob- Why?

Elizabeth- Suppose someone who is my own size and strength hits me. That isn’t considered a lethal threat. I can backup, or run away, or hit back to protect myself.

If I have a child in my arms then I need to immediately stop the threat for the safety of the innocent child. Thank god this man had a gun.

Rob- I’m imagining that I was in this man’s situation. All I’m doing is visiting a friend. That sounds like a safe place, and then things turned violent in a fraction of a second.

Elizabeth- Right. If you knew it would get crazy, you wouldn’t go. In fact, everyone would leave. You’re helping a student with their math and then this man attacked you and you had to defend yourself and others.

Rob- This was a dangerous situation.

Elizabeth- It is a really hard problem. You’re getting hit in the face. You have an infant in your arms so you can’t put up your arms and defend yourself. You have to turn your body so your body is between you and your attacker. You have to pull up your shirt, grab your gun, point it at your attacker, and press the trigger. Try doing that with one one handed while you’re holding a child.

Rob- Great. Now we’re one of the few podcasts that give homework to our listeners.  But you’re right. I need to try that myself and see if I can do it and how long it takes me.

Elizabeth- me too.

Rob- What else do you notice.
Elizabeth- Our defender asked people to call the police. He stayed on the scene to give his story. If you’re safe, then don’t run away. Bad guys run away and good guys stay and talk to the police. Unfortunately, our good guy dropped the gun rather than put it back into his holster. I wish he’d listened to these stories so he would have known what to do.

Rob- Putting your gun back into the holster isn’t easy when your that excited.

Elizabeth- Again, that takes practice. I know that I would be really emotional if I just defended my life and shot someone. Now I’ve got a baby on the ground and a gun in my hand. If I didn’t have a plan to safely re-holster my gun, if I hadn’t practiced that motion time after time, then it is easy to imagine being overwhelmed in the moment. That is why it is so important to practice holstering your gun.  I teach my students to draw from their holsters efficiently and reholster reluctantly. This is where muscle memory comes into play.

Rob- So we have been practicing all along. Good for us.

Elizabeth- You’re not done yet. You can’t influence the witnesses, but you can ask them if they are hurt. Ask them to stay put so the EMTs can look at them, and then ask them to stay so they can tell the police what they saw. They are part of your defense that you did the right thing, and you want the police to talk to them and establish their statements as part of your record.

Rob- You didn’t commit a crime, but you’re already putting elements in place that will show you’re the good guy in a court of law. Do you talk to your students about that too?

Elizabeth- I tell everyone about that..even our listeners.   Our third story happened last week near Detroit, Michigan.

Rob- Fist this message from my friends at Armed Lutheran Radio.

Give a listen at http://www.armedlutheran.us/

Rob- Third story- Are you armed when you open up your store first thing in the morning?

You work at a pawn shop. The store isn’t open yet, but you’re already getting ready for the day. There is equipment to repair. You’ll put construction tools out in front as workmen rent them for the day.  Before you get that done, there is a loud crash from the front of your store. You look into the front room to see a truck drive out of your store. He smashed a hole where your front door used to be. Now two men run inside and run to the gun counter. You shoot them. They run back outside, jump into their truck, and drive away.

You call the police and show them the surveillance videos.

Elizabeth- This is harder than it looks.

Rob- Why is that?

Elizabeth- If this break in were at my home then I’d be in my bedroom. The door is already locked. I’d grab my gun, point it at the door, and call the police.

I’d do the same thing if this were a clothing shop before it opened. Let them steal the money and the sox.

But this store had guns, and the thieves wanted the guns to commit more crimes. That is why gun-store employees go armed. They will kill you if you try to rob them.

Some states forbid you from protecting property. Some states allow you to defend yourself from any intruder. Michigan is a stand your ground state. The employee had no duty to run. That means that people who break into your home, your office or your store are assumed to be there to hurt you. You don’t have to get hit before you can defend yourself given that they have already smashed down the wall of your building.

That is the law. In general, don’t use your gun unless human life is at immediate risk.

Rob- That is a lot to think about.  In fact, it is too much for me to think about if it was happening to me. I’d have to plan what to do ahead of time.

Elizabeth- I talk to store owners. I train them and train with them. Safety is part of their business plan. They have their rules for them and their employees. Don’t go to war over the sox and snickers bars, but if employees are at risk of immediate serious harm, then they and you may and should use lethal force do protect human life. Think about it now.

Know your target and what is beyond..

Rob- How do your students learn about that?

Elizabeth- We talk about it a little, but there are excellent books and seminars on exactly that subject. (Which ones have you been to? NRA? Branka? McYoung? Kincaid?)

Rob-What else should we do in this situation.

Elizabeth- Don’t chase the bad guys. Make sure you’re safe. Once you’re sure you’re out of danger, then holster your gun and take a breath. Also, tell yourself a joke. Call the police. Call your lawyer. Wait for the police and give them a brief statement.

Rob- Even the simplest story is complex. Let’s stop here and go on to our fourth story.

Elizabeth- Forth story? We usually do three stories.

Rob- Our listeners left messages on the podcast facebook page. About 70 percent of the comments are in favor of a longer episode. Thank you, Leroy. If you like more stories, then let us know. If you want a shorter podcast, then tell us.

Elizabeth- Our fourth story took place in Winterhaven, Florida.

Rob- Fourth story- Are you armed as you drive for a ride-sharing company?

It is late at night. You’re driving for a ride sharing company. You get a call to drive someone home from a local bar. You’ve been there before. You identify yourself as you drive up. The lady matches her picture on the Uber account. She gets in and you start to drive her home. You’re on the highway when a pickup truck tries to run you off the road. You pull over to let him pass.

A truck driver stops and gets out of his truck. He runs toward your car and has something in his hands. The truck driver shouts, “You know I’ve got a pistol. You want me to f’ing shoot you!”

You own a gun. You have your concealed carry permit. You’re armed and carrying concealed right now. You draw your firearm and shoot your attacker as he reaches the door of your car.

You call 911 and provide emergency medical aid to your attacker.

Police said the driver thought you drove away from the bar with his girlfriend. You had never seen this passenger before this ride, and the truck driver’s girlfriend was back at the bar.

The police believe the truck driver may have been intoxicated and are waiting for medical reports on drugs and alcohol from the state medical examiner.

Elizabeth- This is a good story. I’m glad the driver had the means to protect himself and his passenger.

Rob- What do you see?

Elizabeth- Most of the attackers in assault cases are intoxicated on either drugs or alcohol. That is true for both robberies and fights at the local bar.

Rob- So you’re saying that the attacker’s story doesn’t have to make sense.

Elizabeth- Sometimes the crazy person is out to get you for no reason. That means you can’t always talk your way out of a problem. Yes, you should deescalate a situation if you can, but sometimes you can’t.

Rob- What do you tell your students to do?

Elizabeth- Be the innocent good guy. You can defend yourself because you didn’t do anything wrong. You lose that legal presumption of innocence if you threaten someone in a bar. You lose that innocence if you try to run someone off the road in a road-rage incident. If you do, then you lose the right of self-defense.

Rob- There is a lot to learn as you carry a gun for self-defense.

Elizabeth- But you can learn it. Not in one day, but you didn’t learn to drive in one day. It took a lot of practice before you could drive anywhere, day or night. Like learning to drive, there might be situations where you wouldn’t carry your gun yet because you feel you don’t have enough experience. That voice of concern you hear might be your good judgement trying to give you a message. Keep learning.

Rob- Is there more?

Elizabeth- Rob- That is enough for now. We’ll be back after this message from Buckeye Firearms Foundation

Please support Buckeye Firearms Foundation at https://www.buckeyefirearmsfoundation.org/

Exit-  Rob- That wraps up this episode. Elizabeth Hautman, thank you for helping us again. Where can we learn more about you?

Elizabeth- Elizabeth- I instruct in Colorado Springs.  I teach small classes at my private range in Black Forest.  Students can contact me at Colorado Boots Firearms Instruction.

Rob- Let us know what you think. Do you like the longer podcast with four stories? Do you want more personal news from our instructors? Leave us a message on the podcast facebook page.  We have an inbox there if you don’t want to leave your message in public.

Elizabeth-  We share this podcast with you for free.  All we ask is that you share the podcast with a friend and give us a rating on I-Tunes and Stitcher.  We’re also available on Google Play Music and Spotify.

Rob- I’m Rob Morse.  We’ll be back next week with more Self-Defense Gun Stories.

Episode 121 with Ben Branam

Can you defend yourself at your office, as you drive, at home and where you work? Instructor Ben Branam brings us three new stories of self-defense. (23 minute audio podcast)

Rob- Introduction- Welcome to episode 121 of Self-Defense Gun Stories.

This podcast is for people who might want a gun for self-defense, and for those who already a firearm.  I’m your host, Rob Morse. We have self defense instructor Ben Branam with us as co-host.

Hi, Ben.  I know you’ve been working on physical conditioning as well as shooting in the last few weeks.

Ben- Hi, Rob.  I’ve been working out and shooting..and my website was hacked by a shoe store.

Rob- Please introduce our podcast to our new listeners.

Ben- We will study several examples of armed defense.  These gun owners survived a life threatening situation, but were they lucky, or did they do the right thing? Our first story took place last week in Princess Anne, Maryland.

Rob- First story-  Are you armed at work?  

You own and operate a pharmacy. You ate lunch and are working in your office on some paperwork. You hear shouts from the front of the store. You step out of your office to see two large men wearing ski masks over their faces. They have a rifle pointed at your employees and your customers at the check-out line. You grab your handgun out of your drawer and shoot at the robbers. They run. None of your employees or customers were hurt.

Ben- The pharmacist had a gun.  Good for him.

Rob- Both of the robbers were over six feet tall, and they had a rifle.

Ben- The attackers had an preponderance of force. There were two of them and only one armed defender. They told people to get down on the ground. They posed a lethal threat with their rifle. That is why lethal force was justified, and necessary, to save innocent lives.

Rob- You need to recognize the situation when you see it. You can ask yourself, if I see this, am I justified in protecting myself and others.

Ben- Our good guy had thought that part through. He did not think about his self-defense enough. He did NOT carry a gun on his body. He had his gun in a drawer in his back office. That means he was  lucky to be in his office when the attack happened. If he had been at the drug counter.. A place where he spends a lot of time each day.. then the thieves could have taken the money, the drugs, the gun, and perhaps their lives as well.

Rob- Is this a common crime and a common response?

Ben- The bad news is that people are robbed tens of thousands of times a day. The good news is that we defend ourselves with a gun, in situations just like this, thousands of times a day.

Rob- You’ve trained small business owners. What do you tell them to do?

Ben- The pharmacist recognized a problem. He faced a lethal threat and he acted. He shot at his attackers. When it is time to press the trigger, opening your mouth and talking makes it much more likely that you’re going to get shot.

Rob- he understood that this could happen to him.

Ben- Right. I’m betting that either he was robbed before, or someone he knew was robbed. Most people don’t listen to this podcast, so they don’t know.

In this case, there were three gang members who came in to do harm. That is why I want all the adult staff to be armed, not just the sore owner. There were times when the pharmacist wasn’t at his desk with his gun. He might go out for lunch. He might run to the bank or go to the post office box. He might be in the back of the store accepting a shipment that was being delivered. That means he won’t be there to protect his staff.

I want the assistant pharmacist armed because they are at risk.

I want the cashire and the stocking clerk armed because they are at risk.

Rob- The pharmacist missed his attackers when he shot at them.

Ben- A gun is not a magic wand. You have to practice until your first shot hits your target.

Another good thing that the pharmacist did is he did not chase after the robbers. I want you to stay behind a wall so you don’t give that bad guys a target to shot at.

Also, there was a getaway driver waiting for the criminals to come out. You don’t want to run out the door and get shot by their accomplice. So, good job there. The police arrested all three of the bad guys and they are now in jail.

Rob- Anything else?

Ben- That is enough for now. Our second story happened last week in Old Iron Town, Utah.

Rob- Second Story-  Are you armed at home?   

You’ve finished lunch and are at home with your spouse. You’re both retired and have some disabilities. You hear a crash from the front of your house. A naked man broke through your front door. You shout at him to get out. You also grab your gun. The stranger walks toward your spouse and you shoot the intruder. Now the intruder turns around and leaves.

You call police.

Police find the intruder sitting in front of your house. He fights with the police and has to be tazed several times.

Ben- This is the carry your gun on you all the time episode.

Rob- How so?

Ben- Suppose you and your spouse were on opposite sides of the house when the intruder breaks in. You might have to fight your way to your gun while your spouse is being attacked, and then get back to the fight while the attacker is now holding your spouse. That’s a very hard problem to solve. That is a nightmare. You’re in your 60s or 70s and a 24 year old man is beating up your wife or your husband.

Suppose you were watching your grandkids that day. Maybe then you can’t get to your gun and you all become victims. Let’s plan ahead so we face a problem we can solve.

Rob- Lots of people imagine they will have time to get their gun.

Ben- We’ve asked our listeners to find out for themselves. If you have a gun in the other end of the house, have a friend start clapping slowly. As they clap, you have to go to your gun and then come back to your friend. Each clap was a time your friend was hit by an attacker. Do you want to wait that long? I don’t.

Rob- Wow.

Ben- Again, our good guys used verbal commands. “Get out of here.” and then they used self-defense when those commands didn’t work. Good job. Again, they called police and did not chase the crazy naked man. Leave that for the cops.

Rob- I noticed that both our first story and our second story took place in the middle of the afternoon.

Ben- Our third story happened last week outside of Pittsburg, Pennsylvania.

Rob- Fist this message from Doctors for responsible gun ownership.

Ben- Hey, I know them.

Please support Doctors for responsible gun ownership, DRGO.us

Rob- Third story- Are you armed when you’re driving?

You delivered food to an address after midnight. You’re walking back to your car when a stranger comes out of the darkness.

The stranger has a knife and demands your money and keys. He stabs you. You retreat to your car and grab your gun. You shoot your attacker. Now he stops attacking you.

Neighbors come outside and call police. You’re taken to the hospital for stab wounds to your back, shoulder, and head.

Ben- I just talked about being able to save your friend because you had your gun on you. The friend you save might be yourself. Good that our defender had a gun. Better if he had it on his body so he could get it when he needed it. This happened in Pennsylvania, so the driver could have a concealed carry permit and carry in public.

Rob- I bet he will once his wounds heal.

Ben- Yeah, but some wounds don’t heal. I want us to learn from his situation rather than wait until it happens to us or someone in our family.

And another thing, wearing a holster gives you a place to put your gun after you’ve defended yourself. The police won’t try to stop your bleeding until they have your gun put away. Witnesses are also reluctant to help you when you have a gun in your hands. Wear a holster if you can. We can show you how to use it. Honest. Millions of people carry concealed today..but you don’t see them..because, well, its concealed.

Rob- Yeah. We don’t advertise. Let’s go on to our fourth story.

Ben- Forth story? We usually do three stories.

Rob- Our listeners left us a message on the podcast facebook page and asked for a fourth story. If you like more stories, then let us know. If you want a shorter podcast, then let us know that as well.

Rob- Fourth story- Are you armed when you’re working construction outside?

You and your partner are working to repair an underground cable. It is an emergency repair and it is late at night. You’re both standing at the bottom of an excavated hole. Two strangers walk up to your work site. They point their gun at you and demand your money and your tools.

You draw your gun and shoot the robbers. They run away. You call police. They find one of the injured robbers at the end of the street.

Ben- I’m so glad he had a gun because it is really scary to have people pointing a gun at you when you’re down in a hole and can’t run away.

A gunfight is when the bad guys shoot at you and you shoot back. You don’t want to be in a gunfight. Good tactics mean you get a turn to shoot and they don’t. Use good tactics so you’re involved in a shooting where you stop the threat and they don’t get a chance to shoot you.

Rob- How do we change a gunfight into a shooting?

Ben- I’ve worked construction. You’re wearing a tool belt. You have keys and wallets and guns in your pockets. Just like at home when you undress, it takes time to pull all that out and complete the pocket dump.

Wait until the robber is watching your partner or reaching down for your wallet before you reach for your gun. In fact, the robber won’t recognize when you’re reaching for your gun because he expects you to be reaching into your pocket for your wallet.

“Easy, man. Here are the keys, and phone, and wallet. Take ‘em.”

Rob- So wait your turn.

Ben- Know how much time you need to present your gun and take a shot. Act when you see that opportunity. That said, don’t hesitate. You’re looking at a person who threatened to kill you. Don’t talk when it is time to press the trigger.

The good news is that you’re in a hole and under cover. That means that you’re hard to shoot once the bad guys step back a few feet. I like that a lot.

Once you defend yourself, grab your cell phone and call the police. Don’t jump out of the hole and chase the bad guys. You did a good job and didn’t get shot so far, now don’t go and spoil your good work.

Speaking from experience, you probably have to get out of the hole and get a drink of water and pee after the attack. If the scene is safe, then put your gun away and stay there until the police arrive.

Rob- We’ll be back after this message from the Second Amendment Foundation.

Please join and support the Second Amendment Foundation at SAF.org

Exit-  Rob- that wraps up this episode. Ben, thank you for helping us again. Where can we learn more about you?

Ben- Look for me at Modern Self Protection.com.  I live in San Antonio, and most of my classes are in central Texas.  I teach armed self-defense and church security. Listeners can see my class schedule at my website, and they can also listen to my podcast Modern Self-Protection.

Rob- Do you like the longer podcast with four stories? Do you want more personal news from our instructors? Let us know what you think by leaving a message on the podcast facebook page.  We have an inbox there if you don’t want to leave your message in public.

Ben-  We share this podcast with you for free.  All we ask is that you share the podcast with a friend and give us a rating on I-Tunes and Stitcher.  We’re also available on Google Play Music and Spotify.

Rob- I’m Rob Morse.  We’ll be back next week with more Self-Defense Gun Stories.

Episode 120 with Amanda Suffecool

Can you protect your family at home and in your car? Firearms instructor Amanda Suffecool brings us three new stories of self-defense. (15 minute audio podcast)

Rob- Introduction- Welcome to episode 120 of Self-Defense Gun Stories.

 This podcast is for people who might want a gun for self-defense, and for those who already have one.  I’m your host, Rob Morse. We have firearms instructor Amanda Suffecool with us as co-host.

Hi, Amanda. How have you been?

Amanda- Hi, Rob.  I’ve been taking a short break from all things guns, to focus on my second life.  Aerospace engineering. But – thankfully – I am done with that, and now engaged in several cool things.   Nationally syndicated our Radio Show- Stay tuned for more news in September.

Rob- Please introduce our podcast to our new listeners.

Amanda- We’ll study three recent examples of armed defense.  These armed citizens survived a life threatening situation. What should we do if we were in their place?

Our first story took place last week in Republic, Washington.

Rob- First story-  Are you armed as you drive?  

You’re driving down the street. You’re 20 miles from the canadian border and there are less than two dozen streets in the entire town. It’s usually a quiet place. You’re parking in front of a clothing store when a stranger jumps through the open passenger window of your car. He shouts for you to get out of your car.

You own a gun. You have your concealed carry license. You’ve practiced with your firearm and you’re armed this morning as you drive.

The article does not say if you drew your gun while you were inside the car or outside, but you present your gun and order the robber to the ground. You tell him not to move. Police arrest the robber for multiple break ins he committed that morning.

The police facebook page described the event this way. “Crimes happen and they happen in the blink of an eye usually when you least expect them, even in small towns like Republic. I encourage the free exercise of our inalienable rights. If you go about your day unarmed and helpless, you are a victim waiting for a crime to happen. YOU are responsible for your protection, the police, even as hard as we try, usually only arrive after the crime.

“Get a gun, take a class and refuse to be a victim.

“Thank you to everyone who helps the police, we are you.”

Amanda- Most of us leave our gun up on the shelf and yet we carry this fantasy that we can use it for defense.

Rob- We pretend we’re armed at home, and that we don’t need a gun when we’re in our car. So you want me to go armed as I drive to the store?

Amanda- Rob, I know you think you’re special, but you’re special just like the rest of us. Yes, carry your gun. Even you, and even when you’re driving in your car. Make your firearms instructor proud of you.

Rob- Defending yourself inside your car is hard. Most of us don’t have training to do it. And it’s very different from what I practice at the shooting range.

Amanda- A gun is a defensive tool that works best at a distance. We want to be far enough away from our attacker that we can stop the attack before the attacker can reach us with his hands. That is why it was a good choice to step out of the car and then draw your gun.

Rob- Our driver didn’t have much time to think.

Amanda- No, he didn’t. Criminals attack us without warning. That is why we talk about these stories now, so that we have a model in place of what we could do in a situation like this. There are over 6 thousand examples of armed self-defense every day, and each one is different. Each of these gun-owners adapted their plan to their situation.

Rob- What else did you see in this story?

Amanda- The defender gave verbal commands.

(command voice) Stop. Get back. Get on the ground. Stay there.

That tells the criminal what to do. It also attracts witnesses. They might not be eye witnesses, they might be ear-witnesses. They heard you tell the robber to stop the attack. If you have to shoot, then those loud, clear commands have already started your defense.

Rob- So that is why my instructor had me shout “STOP” when he had me practice drawing my gun?

Amanda- Exactly. We want to build that habit as we practice.

Another thing. It is really hard to hold someone at gunpoint and get on the phone at the same time. The local police appreciated that our defender detained the robber. Larger police departments would tell you to let the robber go and get on the phone. You want to do that so you identify yourself as the good guy. I suspect that the witnesses called police in this case.

Rob- Lets go on to our next story.

Amanda- Our second story happened last week in Forest City, North Carolina.

Rob- Second Story-  Are you armed at home?

You hear the yelling and screaming. Your mom’s ex boyfriend threatened to cut your mom’s throat and to kill all of you. Now he’s choking your mom. Your older sister is trying to pull them apart and save your mom. It isn’t working. Your younger brother grabs your mom’s gun and runs toward the fight. Your brother is only 12 years old. You are 15, so you take the gun from your brother and shoot the attacker. Now he lets go of your mom.

Your family runs away and calls police. The police said your mom’s boyfriend was a convicted felon.

Amanda- Don’t date violent people.

Rob- Right

Amanda- Childproof your guns, and gun-proof your children.

Rob- Tell me more.

Amanda- This woman was terrorized by her violent boyfriend. She got a gun for self-defense. She should also have taken out a restraining order, or an order of protection. Even though it is only a piece of paper, it is an important step in your legal defense if you have to use force to defend yourself.

Rob- be hard to convict

Amanda- This is what I have to teach someone who was not a gun person and then they get a gun.

Storage.

Family training for safe handling

Personal defense

I’m glad her son could get to the gun. If your kids are old enough to be left alone then they are old enough to know about your firearms.

Rob- That is serious.

Amanda- Life and death. Our third story happened last week in Cool, California.

Rob- First this message

Please support the Crime Prevention Research Center at
http://crimeresearch.org/

Rob- Third story- Are you armed at home?  

It is after dark, and you hear someone knock at your door and call your name. It is your neighbors. All of them. The husband, the wife, and their child are asking to come in. You open the door. They said a crazy man broke into their home. They had already called police. You try to make them comfortable when your wife sees someone at your back door.

A stranger breaks through your screen porch and then breaks the glass in your back door. You yell for him to stop. He enters the home and you shoot him.

Now your attacker steps back outside the home. You and your family retreat and call police.

EMTs take the attacker to the hospital.

Amanda- This is the episode where second parties are armed. We had that in our first story too. It sounds like the intruder could have been intoxicated.

Rob- It is hard to reason with a crazy person.

Amanda- Do you have your gun on you right now?

Rob- Yes.

Amanda- Good. You don’t need a carry permit to go armed at home. You need a gun and to know how to use it

..and have a holster. A holster helps a lot.

Rob- Better yet if all four of the adults in this story were armed.

Amanda- That would have been good, and maybe that would have been enough to stop the attack without shots being fired.
I like that our defender stopped shooting when the attack stopped.

Rob- He did not chase the bad guy and keep shooting.

Amanda- At night? You don’t know how many people are outside your home. The crazy attacker may have had friends.

Our armed defender did the right thing. He moved his family and his neighbors to safety and called police. That identified the homeowner as the good guy, and he got help on the way.

Rob- Goodguys call police. Did the first family do the right thing to leave their home when they were attacked?

Amanda- If they didn’t have a tool to defend themselves, then they did the right thing. They ran to safety and called police. I’m glad their neighbor was able to protect them.

Exit-  Rob- And we’ve run out of time. Amanda, thank you for helping us again. Where can we learn more about you?

Amanda- You can find me at eye on the target radio radio. I have two radio programs and I instruct on the weekends.

Rob- Don’t you have a concealed carry fashion show in the works?

Amanda-?  Yeah I do.  At GRPC – Gun Rights Policy Conference in Chicago put on by the 2nd Amendment Foundation.   It should be the kick off to a good 2A time.

Rob- Some listeners asked us to put out a longer show. Some like it short. Please tell us what you like by leaving a message on the podcast facebook page.  

Amanda-   We share this podcast with you for free.  All we ask is that you share it with a friend and give us a rating on I-Tunes and Stitcher.  We’re also available on Google Play Music and Spotify.

Rob- I’m Rob Morse.  We’ll be back next week with more Self-Defense Gun Stories.

Please support Coloradans for Civil Liberties

Episode 119 with Tony Simon

Are you armed at home and in public? Firearms instructor Tony Simon brings us three new self-defense stories. (15 minute audio podcast)

Rob- Introduction- Welcome to episode 119 of Self-Defense Gun Stories.  This podcast is for people who might want a gun for self-defense, and for those who already have one.  I’m your host, Rob Morse. We have firearms instructor Tony Simon with us as co-host.

Hi, Tony.  How have you been?

Tony- Hi, Rob.  I’ve been hosting the 2nd is For Everyone Diversity Shoot. The latest event was last Thursday at Gun For Hire range in Woodland Park NJ. We introduced a few new shooters to firearms.

Rob- Well done, and thank you. While you’re making introductions, please describe our podcast to our new listeners.

Tony- We study three recent examples of armed defense.  These gun owners survived a life threatening situation. What should we do if we were in their place?

Our first story took place last week in Las Vegas, Nevada.

Rob- First story-  Are you armed at home?  

You’re not sure if you heard it or not. You wake up and hear something moving around in your house. You sit up and see someone in your bedroom. You grab your handgun and shoot at the intruder. He runs away. You call police. It is 3:30 in the morning.

Tony-  That’s scary.

Rob- and it happens every day. You’re a locksmith. How many of your customers call you after an event like this and want better locks?

Lock your doors. Many thieves creep around neighborhoods checking homes and cars to see if they’re locked. When they find an open door they go in and steal what they can.

Rob- Why?

Tony-  Locked doors and alarms will buy you time. The thief arrives with a plan. You need to me to put your plan in place.

Alarms should be a part of your home’s layered security. After 25 years of being a locksmith I can tell you many homeowners never hear the breaking glass or a kicked in door that indicates a home invasion.Alarms make you aware of your outer security being breached.

It can also get authorities responding to your home alarm even if you can’t call them yourself. Alams can also scare off intruders.

Rob- What do you think of the do it yourself security systems that link to your PC and your phone?

Tony- Also, I want you to have a flashlight. You have to identify what goes bump in the night. Too many people are injured or killed because of misidentification by armed homeowners. It’s tragic and avoidable.

Rob- Learn from other people’s mistakes, and please practice with your light since most attacks are after dark.

Tony- Great that he had a gun with him. The no one was hurt but at bedroom distance the homeowner missed the bad guy. You don’t get to choose when you use your firearm. Be accurate enough to hit what you are shooting at, you are responsible for every round you fire.

Rob- I can see two reasons he might have missed the intruder. One is stress. The other is that it is hard to see your sights in the dark.

Talk to me about the training steps we’d want our students to have before the meet a stranger in the dark.

Tony- Firearms safety. Safe storage. Load and unload your gun.

On-body carry and presentation.

Target practice.

Moving with a gun.

Training will overcome stress. We already talked about practicing with your flashlight.

Our second story happened last week in Titusville, Florida.

Rob- Second Story-  Are you armed at the park?   You’re walking across the park. In front of you is a rally where a community group is giving away free school supplies to poor kids. You see a guy run up and pull a gun from his pants. This guy starts shooting into the crowd. You see people run. Now the attacker tracks some of the people in the crowd. You draw your gun and shoot the attacker.

You have your carry permit. You holster your gun and wait for police. EMTs take the attacker to the hospital.

Tony-  The video from this has been all over social media. Thank God that hero was there to stop the potential massacre. I think it raises an important question for all people regardless of whether they carry a weapon for self defense. Do you get involved or do you get yourself and your family to safety?

Rob- Talk about that. What should I consider if I’m there with my family, and if I’m there alone?

Tony- As an armed self defender you need to have the ability to hit your target and stop them immediately. We also don’t want to hit innocent bystanders.

Rob- Moving headshot in a crowd.

Talk to me about a “cold test.”

Tony- The “cold test” is going to the range, setting your target at a distance you feel you can hit your target effectively and firing your first shot on target. You can choose drawing from concealment or not. The result tells us what you are capable of at that time.

Training doesn’t have to be a lifestyle but you must learn the fundamentals and be able to apply them at anytime. You should also learn your limitations with your firearm. At what distance can you hit at target effectively? 10 effective shots consecutively on target was one standard that I’ve given myself.  

Tony- Our third story happened last week in Litchfield, Texas.

Rob- Third story- Are you armed when you arrive home?  

You pull up to your house you notice your neighbor being attacked by a man with a knife. You step out of your car. She is screaming and trying to get her two children out of the carseats in the back of her automobile. Her boyfriend was trying to help her, but an attacker was cutting them both with a knife and trying to take the car.

You draw your gun and step between the car and the attacker. Now the attacker runs across the street. You call police.

When the police finally get there, the assailant drops the knife and attacks the police.

Tony-  Another hero steps in and saves a family. The news story stated that no one was injured which is great.

Rob- And hard to believe given that the attacker had a knife.

Tony-  The only thing that I find concerning was the gun owner placing himself between the knife wielding attacker and the car. Distance is your friend and armed with a firearm. The more distance and objects you put between yourself and the knife the more the results are tipped in your favor.

Rob- What would you tell your students to do?

Tony- Get on the other side of the car or anything that would require you bad guy to run around to get to you. That gives the defender more time to put rounds on the bad guy and reduce the chances of get stabbed.

Exit-  Rob- That wraps up this episode. Tony, thank you for helping us again. Where can we learn more about you?

Tony- My website is Diversityshoot.com You can find me on Instagram and facebook at Simon Says Train and The 2nd is For Everyone podcast.

Rob- You can share your thoughts with us by leaving a message on the podcast facebook page.  

Tony-   We share this podcast with you for free.  Please share it with a friend and give us a rating on I-Tunes and Stitcher.  We’re also available on Google Play Music and Spotify.

Rob- I’m Rob Morse.  We’ll be back next week with more Self-Defense Gun Stories.

Give a listen at http://www.armedlutheran.us/

Episode 118 with Andee Reardon

Are you armed at home and at work? Firearms instructor Andee Reardon brings us three new self-defense stories. (13 minute audio podcast)

Rob- Introduction- Welcome to episode 118 of Self-Defense Gun Stories.  This podcast is for people who might want a gun for self-defense, and for those who already have one.  I’m your host, Rob Morse. We have firearms instructor Andee Reardon with us as co-host.

Hi, Andee.  How have you been?

Andee- Hi, Rob.  I’ve been teaching and training. Over the weekend I was at the Women Who Shoot retreat here in Maine. We had an awesome group of women who came and we had a blast shooting together.

And you?

Rob- I went to a three day training course for school teachers. Defending kids is deadly serious business and there is a lot to learn.

Andee- I love it! I hope more schools begin to do this and become open to the thought of arming teachers and staff.

Rob- Andee, please let our new listeners know what they’ll learn here.

Andee- We study three recent examples of armed defense.  These gun owners survived a life threatening situation. Were they lucky, or were they well trained? What should we do if we were in their place?

Our first story took place last week in Triadelphia, West Virginia.

Rob- First story-  Are you armed at work?

You’re behind the bar at the First and Last Shot Cantina. It is after midnight when you look up to see a stranger walk through the door. This stranger has a gun in his hands. You draw your handgun and point it at the robber. The robber turns and runs. You don’t shoot, but you do call police. Police dogs tracked the robber back to his car, but the robber wasn’t there.

Andee- on body or behind the counter? The story doesn’t say but I like to think he was carrying on body. You never know when you’ll need your pistol and the last thing you want is for it to be out of reach.

Rob- What would have happened if you were at the other end of the bar serving customers when a man walks in and presents a gun. Now the robber gets both the money AND your gun.

Andee- Please carry on body if you can. There are so many options for holsters out there, there aren’t many reasons not to carry on your person.

Andee- Sometimes just having a gun and being confident that you know how to use it is enough. The bartender quickly changed the scene when he drew his gun causing the robber to flee. I’m a firm believer that you shouldn’t carry unless you are prepared to shoot but often that isn’t even necessary..

Andee- Our second story happened last week in Memphis, Tennessee.

Rob- Second Story-  Are you armed at home?

It is late at night and you’re getting ready for bed. You hear someone knock on  your front door. Then they ring the bell. They are banging on the door really hard, so  you look out the window. You see a strange man sitting in a car in your driveway and a strange woman beating on your door.

You grab the shotgun that you and your husband keep for defense. The strange woman walked around to the side of the house and began trying to open your side door. The intruder breaks the glass and you walk around the corner with your shotgun leveled at her.  The intruder sees you and your gun. Her hands go up in the air, she turns around and walk back to the car. Both the burglar and her getaway driver head down the road. You call police.

Andee- It’s so important to be armed at home with a gun and a plan. This women never had to fire a shot. She showed she was armed and willing to protect herself and that was enough for the would-be robbers. Criminals often work together. I’m glad the homeowner didn’t just open the door because she saw a woman outside. She looked around and noticed the man waiting in the vehicle parked outside.

Andee- What if the gun was on the other side of the house so the homeowner had to fight her way to her shotgun? Keeping your firearm accessible is important and if you don’t carry in your home, make sure you have staged weapons where you can easily grab one if needed.

Andee- Something I did notice that I wanted to point out was the homeowner put the barrel of the shotgun through the window. This is something you don’t want to do, it would give the intruders a chance to grab the gun and take it from her. Always keep that “reactionary gap” open so you have time and space to react to what is going on. Luckily everything went well for the homeowner and she is safe thanks, to owning a firearm.

Andee- Our third story happened last week in Phenix City, Alabama.

Please support Buckeye Firearms Foundation at https://www.buckeyefirearmsfoundation.org/

 

Rob- Third story- Are you armed at work?

You’re restocking the refrigerator case at a convenience store. It is 11 at night and a customer comes in with a gun in his hands. He tells you to give him the money in the register. That is exactly what you do.

Next, the robber tells you to get down on your knees and the robber puts a gun in your face. The robber turns away to grab some cigarettes. You grab your gun and shoot the robber three times in the chest. Then you call police. They transport the robber to the hospital and take the robber’s gun.

News reports said your gun was a 45.

Andee- This is another case showing why on the body carry is so important. The store clerk most likely wouldn’t have had a good opportunity to draw his gun had it not been on his body. He waited for the right moment to draw, when the suspect was distracted with grabbing some cigarettes. If someone has a gun aimed right at you and you try to draw, chances are you’ll be shot. Keep calm and wait for the right moment.

Andee- wait your turn.

Andee- Something I really took from this story was the clerk did not want to harm the man but was given a choice of shooting or the possibility of losing his own life. The media often portrays gun owners as bloodthirsty people who wish for the opportunity to use their gun. This man’s testimony shows he did not want to shoot and he even prayed for the man he shot, hoping he would be ok.

Exit-  Rob- And that wraps up this episode. Andee, thank you for helping us again. Where can we learn more about you?

Andee- You can find me at EastCoastSchoolofSafety.com and on my facebook and Instagram pages with the same name.

Rob- You can share your thoughts with us by leaving a message on the podcast facebook page.  

Andee-   If you liked this show, then you’ll like the other podcasts on the Self-defense radio network. We share this podcast with you for free.  Please share it with a friend and give us a rating on I-Tunes and Stitcher.  We’re also available on Google Play Music and Spotify.

Rob- I’m Rob Morse.  We’ll be back next week with more Self-Defense Gun Stories.

Listen to Gun Freedom Radio at http://gunfreedomradio.com

Episode 117 with Jeff Street

Are you armed at home and on the street? Can you protect those you love? Firearms instructor Jeff Street brings us three new stories. (13 minute audio podcast)

Rob- Introduction- Welcome to episode 117 of Self-Defense Gun Stories.  This podcast is for people who might want a gun for self-defense, and for those who already have one.  I’m your host, Rob Morse. We have firearms instructor Jeff Street with us as co-host.

Hi, Jeff.  How have you been?

Jeff- Hi, Rob.  I’ve been busy training, both indoors, and outdoor is in the south florida heat.  Wow.

Rob- Please introduce our podcast to our new listeners.

Jeff- We study three recent examples of armed defense.  These gun owners survived a life threatening situation. What should we do if we were in their place?

We Get a lot of time to think about these stories before we comment on them.  Our listeners need to think about their daily lives and what possible problems they might encounter.  

Our first story took place last week in Houston, Texas.

Rob- First story-  Are you armed at home at night?  

It is after dark. You hear your wife scream from outside your house. You walk to the windows and see two men grabbing your wife and pushing her towards the front door. You grab your handgun and step outside. The robbers shoot at you. You shoot them. Now they run.

One of the suspects was arrested at the hospital. Both you and your wife are uninjured, but badly shaken.

Jeff- great that he had a gun

Rob- two robbers versus you and your wife. I don’t like those odds.

Jeff- Home invasion method that defeats Locks and Alarms. Situational Awareness Levels, P.O.G.O. What door do you exit from to confront the attackers? Exchange of Fire hostage shot, Difficulty of your problem, Moving Targets, Skills needed, skills tested

Jeff- It isn’t clear if the man was armed, or if he had to go get his gun. If you have your gun up in a closet, then time yourself to see how long it takes you to get it. Start at your front door, go get your gun, load it, and then get back to the front door.

Rob- ccw vs sniper shot

Jeff- He shot the attacker in the head..at night

Jeff- Our second story happened last week in Chicago, Illinois.

Rob- Second Story-  Are you armed as you drive your car?   

You are driving for a ride share company. It is almost midnight when you pick up two customers. Before you start to drive, the two passengers start punching you and reaching for the car keys. You have your concealed carry permit. You’re armed this night.  You lean away from them and draw your firearm. They run from your car.

Jeff- Not the safest job ever, most of us will not ever need to draw while in a car.  This would be an exception. Once someone has your car and they are driving away, let it go. Do you have your cars License plate number memorized or recorded on your phone?

A common situation, and becoming more common every day.

Rob- I didn’t learn to draw my firearm from a seated position when I took my CCW class.

Jeff- Not our CCW students either.

Rob- Sounds like it takes a couple of steps to get there.

Jeff- But you can learn it small step by step. First we have to learn firearms safety, to live with a loaded gun concealed on your body, learn to present when you’re standing, then learn  to do so when sitting.

Jeff- Our third story happened last week outside Greenville, South Carolina, but first this message.

Please support Doctors for responsible gun ownership, DRGO.us

Rob- Third story- Are you armed when you arrive home in the morning?

You dropped your two children off at school. You open the door and notice a strange smell. You go upstairs and hear someone in your bedroom. You open your bedroom closet and a man reaches out to grab you. You have your concealed carry permit. You are armed. You draw your gun and shoot your attacker. You run out of the house and call police.

Police identify your dead attacker as the stalker who’d threatened you at work. Now, he’s broken into your home.

Jeff-  risk of working in the public, gun must have been in her hand as she opened to closet door.  Maybe tell the intruder to stay in the closet until police arrive? Talk through the door but not in front of the door.

A gun is one tool for self-defense. There are other tools as well. For example, I wish she had a home alarm. She could have stayed outside and let the police find her stalker.

Exit-  Rob- That wraps up this episode. Jeff, thank you for helping us again. Where can we learn more about you?

Jeff- You can find me at Step by Step Gun Training in Naples Florida.  We provide custom training courses as well as group classes. Our listeners can leave me a message for us on the Step by Step Facebook page.

Rob- You can share your thoughts with us by leaving a message on the podcast facebook page.  

Jeff-   We share this podcast with you for free.  Please share it with a friend and give us a rating on I-Tunes and Stitcher.  We’re also available on Google Play Music and Spotify.

Rob- I’m Rob Morse.  We’ll be back next week with more Self-Defense Gun Stories.

Please join and support the Second Amendment Foundation at SAF.org

Episode 116 with Tiffany Johnson

Are you armed at home? Can you defend yourself on the street? Firearms instructor Tiffany Johnson brings us three new stories. (17 minute audio podcast)

Rob- Introduction- Welcome to episode 116 of Self-Defense Gun Stories.  This podcast is for people who think they might want a firearm for self-defense, and for those who already have one.  I’m your host, Rob Morse. We have firearms instructor Tiffany Johnson with us as co-host.

Hi, Tiffany.  How have you been?

Tiffany- Hi, Rob.  I’ve been too busy with classes and my day jobs.

Rob- Please introduce our podcast to our new listeners.

Tiffany- We study three recent examples of armed defense.  These gun owners survived a life threatening situation. What should we do if we were in their place?

Our first story took place last week in Carlsbad, California.

Rob- First story-  Are you armed at home?

It is Friday night and you’re having some friends over. Sometimes friends invite friends, so you see several strangers in your home and you ask them who they came with. They invited themselves, so you ask them to leave. They argue, but they go away. Not too long after that, you hear a terrible crash from your front door. These strangers kicked in your front door and are now standing in your hallway. You grab your gun and shoot at the intruders. Now they run.

Two of the attackers are wounded. Their friends took them to separate hospitals with non- life threatening injuries.

Tiffany- The door was locked.

Rob- Yes it was. That gave the homeowner more time to react as the home invaders broke down his door. A video camera and a motion detector would have given him warning too.

Tiffany, Yes, and they would have bought him even more time. The homeowner also had a firearm nearby. It’s unlikely that the gun was carried concealed, but even in anti-gun Carlsbad, California, you may still carry concealed at home.

Rob- Was the use of force justified?

Tiffany- Violent entry by multiple men is considered justifiable cause for self-defense. This wasn’t the fire department breaking through a door to get to someone who was trapped in a fire. This sounds more like gang activity.

Rob- It sounds like that to me too. But that can happen to honest people too. What should we do if we were in their place?

Tiffany- Our second story happened last week near Sacramento, California.

Rob- Second Story-  Are you armed at home?   

You hired several men to work on a construction project on your property. The sounds changed from the sound of saws and hammers, to the sound of screams and yells. You see one of the construction workers hit another worker with a hammer..several times. You grab your shotgun and run to the scene. You yell for the attacker to stop and threaten to shoot him. Now he stops the attack. You then shout for the other workers to call police and EMTs. You tell the attacker not to move. Sheriff’s deputies arrive by helicopter and secure the scene. The victim was taken to the hospital by ambulance and required surgery for life threatening injuries to his head. The attacker was arrested, and out on parole.

Tiffany- You want to investigate who you’re inviting on your property. This homeowner had a friend doing the construction work. The other laborers were friends of friends. That means you don’t know who is in your house. Real professionals have a license and are bonded to protect the homeowner from issues like this one.

Tiffany- It sounds like this was a rural neighborhood and the homeowner had a loaded shotgun at hand.

Rob- That is why the cops used a helicopter to get there quickly. What should we do with a violent criminal once he’s stopped an attack on a third person?

Tiffany- Our third story happened last week in Richmond, California, but first this message.

Please support the Crime Prevention Research Center at
http://crimeresearch.org/

Rob- Third story- Are you armed at night?  

It is after midnight. You are staying at your parents home when you hear breaking glass. You grab your gun and investigate. There you see a stranger standing in the front room of the house and he has something in his hands. You tell him to get out. He walks toward you. You shoot him until he stops advancing. Now your folks are awake, and they call 911. EMTs take your attacker to the hospital. The police recover 7 empty shell casings.

Your attacker had an arrest record for home invasion. Police think he’d broken into two other homes that night.

Tiffany- This is the california episode, isn’t it?

Rob- People defend themselves even in anti-gun California.

Tiffany- Of course they are. Thousands of us need to defend ourselves every day.

Rob- Would you explain why lethal force was justified in this case?

Tiffany- At home, dark of night, the intruder didn’t stop when confronted.

Rob- What does it mean by shooting until the attacker stopped?

Tiffany- We’re employing the firearm as a tool. It can stop a person from attacking us or other innocent parties. Once that attack is stopped, then our justification for using lethal force stops also. You may have every right to shoot a criminal who has broken into your home and shows every sign of attacking you. Once the criminal turns to run, you have to stop shooting because the attacker is no longer a threat.

Rob- What do you tell your students to do?

Tiffany- you don’t have much warning. By the time you knew there was a problem, the intruder was already in your home. There were several family members in the home, so you probably don’t have time to gather together and barricade behind your bedroom door. That limits your options, so you might have to confront an intruder as this man did.

Exit- Rob- And speaking of ??? that wraps up this episode. Tiffany, thank you for helping us again. Where can we learn more about you?

Tiffany- My website is Front Sight Press and I instruct at Citizens Safety Academy and Rangemaster

Rob- You can share your thoughts with us by leaving a message on the podcast facebook page.  

Tiffany-  We share this podcast with you for free.  Please share it with a friend and give us a rating on I-Tunes and Stitcher.  We’re also available on Google Play Music and Spotify.

Rob- I’m Rob Morse.  We’ll be back next week with more Self-Defense Gun Stories.

Please support Coloradans for Civil Liberties

Episode 115 with Robyn Street

Have you prepared your home? Can you yourself on the street? Firearms instructor Robyn Street brings us three new stories of armed defense. (14 minute audio podcast)

Rob- Introduction- Welcome to episode 115 of Self-Defense Gun Stories.  This podcast is for people who might want a firearm for self-defense, and for those who already have one.  I’m your host, Rob Morse. We have firearms instructor Robyn Street with us as co-host.

Hi, Robyn.  How have you been?

Robyn- Hi, Rob.  I’ve been good. We have been working on strengthening our self defense tool box.  We have been working on enhancing our situational awareness, self defense and knife training.  I would like to avoid ever being attacked, but if I am attacked, I want a robust set of skills to escape and to protect myself.  I am really enjoying learning and refining my skills. I also got to shoot black powder muzzle loaded rifles with my friends. It was really fun but my friends just kept saying if I had been a soldier back in the old days, I would not have lasted very long.  I was not very fast loading the rifle. My primary focus was on safety.

Rob- And speaking of safety tools, please introduce our podcast to our new listeners.

Robyn- We study three recent examples of armed defense.  These gun owners survived a life threatening situation. What should we do if we were in their place?

Our first story took place last week in Fresno, California.

Rob- First story-  Are you armed at home?  

It is well after dark when you hear someone knocking on your front door. You check your doorbell camera and don’t recognize the woman standing on your porch. The stranger says her friend lives there. The strange woman is obviously confused, and she also sounds increasingly angry as she demands to be let in. You call police. The strange woman rips the screen door off your entryway and the screens off your windows. Your doors and windows are locked. The intruder throws herself an your door over and over, then starts banging on your windows.

You tell her you have a gun and to go away. Police arrive a moment later and arrest her. The intruder is a 30-years-old and she was drunk. She faces charges with vandalism.

Robyn- The homeowner, a retired police officer, had a gun and was mentally prepared to use it to defend herself.  This was something that our homeowner had already envisioned as a possibility. She had done a good job of hardening her home.  The doors and windows were locked and secure, camera was installed and operating, phone was charged and in hand, gun was available and ready to use.  Hooray.

Robyn – I love the fact that she had installed a doorbell camera.  She could identify the person at the door without compromising her security..  I am not sure if the camera had a speaker but regardless she also issued clear verbal commands to leave.

Robyn – She did so many things right.  She called the police and got them on the way. A further benefit to calling 911 is that they can give you updates on the position of help on the way, you can keep them updated on the location of the threat and on your location.  Finally, it is recorded in case any legal action is required.

Robyn- She was frightened..and she is a retired police officer.  She did a great job of analyzing the threat as it was unfolding. I think it is important for us to mention how upset she was sharing how  close she was to shooting the woman. Perhaps she had drawn the red line at crossing the threshold of the house. She was prepared and stayed in control.  She had police on the way but they were not there yet. She was her own first responder. If we find ourselves in a similar situation this would give us a good mental map to follow.

Robyn- No shots fired.  I wish that every self defense scenario was like this one.  The preparations were sufficient to keep her potential attacker away.  Good job! Our second story happened North of Daytona Beach.

Rob- Second Story-  Are you armed at work

You work in a pizza restaurant. It is almost time to close the store for the day. A man walks in and you look up. The customer wears a mask and before you know it he hit you with a wooden post. You duck and the post breaks on the counter. The stranger pulls out some scissors and tries to stab you. You draw your firearm and shoot him several times.

You call the police. The video shows the robber waiting outside and then attacking you. There are no other witnesses, and the police find your attacker behind the store wearing a clown mask.

Robyn- Our defender got a late start. There is a lot to do as you close a restaurant. You’re cleaning up from today and getting ready for tomorrow. No wonder the employee was paying attention to clean-up and prep rather than the stranger coming in the door.

Rob- So the first clue is that you’re getting hit with a fence post.

Robyn-I understand that the worker was probably anxious to get home, but if possible he should have waited to do clean-up until after the doors were secured.

Robyn- This is a situation where he had to earn his draw.  The attacker was already attacking him at close range before he defended himself.  This is where the skills I am working on this summer might have come in very handy.  Avoid getting hit, block and work for your counter movement

Robyn-Thank goodness that he was armed.  He was able to defend his life with the tool he had. He was mentally and physically prepared to do whatever to took to get home to his family.

Robyn-He stayed in the fight until it was over.  But when the threat no longer existed he stopped.

Robyn- He did a good job calling the police and letting them do their job.  They found the attacker behind the store.

Robyn- Our third story happened last week in Tuscaloosa, Alabama.

Listen to Gun Freedom Radio at http://gunfreedomradio.com

Rob- Third story- Are you armed when you’re at home?  

It is still dark outside when you hear someone in your basement. You tell your wife to call police and you grab your gun. You go downstairs and tell the intruder not to move. Police arrive a few minutes later.

The intruder is charged with second-degree burglary and the police think he is responsible for several other break-ins.

Your wife and children are unhurt.

Robyn- Wife and kids in the home. Do you shelter in place or investigate the noise in the basement?

Rob- Is there only one way up from the basement? How do I know there is only one intruder?

Robyn – That is one of the reasons that we have cameras in our house.  I can search my house via my phone. If you can see them you can give good information to the police and you can to a better job evaluating the threat and planning your defense.

Robyn- If you had not installed cameras, the first thing that popped into my mind was to barricade the basement door.  If there was indeed an intruder or intruders in my basement they could take any of the basement stuff they wanted but they were not allowed to hurt me or my family.  Single entry up a staircase through a door is relatively easy to defend. Let the police come investigate who is in the basement. My job is to keep them away from my family until the police arrive.  

Robyn-I like the team effort.  The wife called 911 to get the police on the way.  That freed her husband to protect the family.

Robyn- I would suggest getting set up in a defensible position and issuing verbal commands.  “The police are on the way.” “Get out of my house.” It would also be nice to illuminate them and or record them.  Many people can turn on lights remotely. Criminals do not want to be seen or filmed.

Robyn- I am glad that the husband had the gun and had it accessible at the time of the break-in   I am also glad that the wife had access to the phone and it was charged.

Robyn-I am not sure what people are thinking when they go off to investigate.  That is very dangerous. He held the intruder until the police arrived. He was lucky that it was a single intruder and that the intruder complied with his command.  This could have very easily turned out much different for the homeowner. I am glad that it worked out for him and his family. I would suggest letting the police do their job.  They can search, they can decide what to do with the criminals that they find. My job is to stay as safe as possible until they arrive.

Robyn- Police arrived in four minutes.  That is a very good response time but I imagine it felt like an eternity to the homeowner.

Exit-  Rob- I had a good time talking with you.  That wraps up this episode. Robyn, thank you for helping us again. Where can we learn more about you?

Robyn- You can find me at Step by Step Gun Training in Naples Florida.  We offer custom training courses as well as group classes. Leave us a message on the Step by Step Facebook page.

Rob- You can share your thoughts with us by leaving a message on the podcast facebook page.  

Robyn-   If you liked this show, then you’ll like the other podcasts on the Self-defense radio network. We share this podcast with you for free.  Please share it with a friend and give us a rating on I-Tunes and Stitcher.  We’re also available on Google Play Music and Spotify.

Rob- I’m Rob Morse.  We’ll be back next week with more Self-Defense Gun Stories.

Episode 114 with David Cole

Can you protect innocent victims at home and on the street? Firearms instructor David Cole brings us three news stories of armed civilians who protected themselves.. and those they love. (13 minute audio podcast)

Rob- Introduction- Welcome to episode 114 of Self-Defense Gun Stories.  This podcast is for people who might want a gun for self-defense, and for those who already have one.  I’m your host, Rob Morse. We have firearms instructor David Cole with us as co-host.

David, I see where you’ve been competing with your concealed carry handgun and teaching Aikido.

David- Hi, Rob.  I’ve been working out the kinks competing with a new gun; getting students ready for testing at the dojo.

Rob- Please introduce our podcast to our new listeners.

David- We study three recent examples of armed defense to see what we can learn.  These gun owners survived a life threatening situation because they were armed. What would you in their place?

Our first story took place last week in Atlanta, Georgia.  Here’s what happened.

Rob- First story-  Are you armed at home?  

You’ve finished the dishes and are cleaning up when you hear a woman scream from the front of your home. You walk outside and see three teenagers beating a pregnant woman on the sidewalk in front of your house. One of the teens is hitting the pregnant woman with a handgun. You draw your firearm and point it at the attacker. “Stop! Drop the gun or I’ll drop you,” you shout.  The attacker drops the gun and all three teens run away.

The victim was a Dominos Pizza delivery driver. The three teenage attackers lured her to the house next door where they waited to rob her of her money and her car. EMTs took the victim to the hospital for observation. Police arrested and charged the teenagers, two boys and a girl, all 16 years old.

David- This is a case of a third party intervention, with an overall happy ending. Our victim was very fortunate that there was a good Samaritan nearby who was willing and able to come to her aid.

Rob- Our defender recognized an innocent victim.

David- A smart decision to respond with a gun, since the attack was 3 on 1…even if the attackers had been unarmed, there is still a disparity of force.

Rob- Should the defender have used a verbal warning? Was he already justified to use lethal force and kill all three attackers?

David- It’s easy to armchair quarterback, but the obvious answer is yes, he should have challenged…because it worked…in this case. But it might not always, and he was certainly justified in using lethal force due to the fact that it was 3 on 1, and there was a weapon involved. Also, I don’t know of any state which requires a challenge be issued prior to use of lethal force. But had the attackers been more committed in carrying out the assault, he might have placed himself at an even greater disadvantage by giving the bad guys that warning, and the resulting time to act first.

David- Our second story happened last week near Richmond, Virginia.

Rob- Second Story-  Are you armed at home?

It is the afternoon when you hear someone trying to break into your basement door. You get your gun. The intruder walks up onto your back porch and tries to open your back door. The door is locked. You shout for the stranger to go away and that you are armed. The man picks up a retaining wall stone and breaks the glass of your back door. Then he reaches inside to unlock the door. Your two daughters are inside behind you. You shoot your invader. Now he runs and you call police.

EMTs take him to the hospital. Police report that the intruder met your daughter online and he lives in another country.

David- This mom protected her family. Well done.

Rob- Should she have retreated and called the police?

David- She certainly could have, but there was no way that this was going to end well. He had pursued this girl in online communications for months, despite having been told to stop. He flew halfway around the world, and purchased a knife, pepper spray, and duct tape before going to the girl’s house. I believe that this family was aware that this guy was a problem, and fortunately they were prepared. Had they not been, it could have turned into the stuff of horror movies.

Rob- 22 caliber

David- It worked..this time. Clearly, a centerfire caliber is better, but the gun you have and the gun you can shoot is still better than nothing.

Rob- What do you suggest for your students?

David- As I mentioned, a centerfire caliber is the best choice for most people; .380 as a minimum, and on up from there. It may take a little more training to become proficient, but when you can save your daughter from that sort of fate, wouldn’t that be worth it?

(another link with more detail on the story: https://wtvr.com/2018/06/25/troy-skinner-arrest/ )

David- Our third story happened last week outside Harrisburg, Pennsylvania.

Please join and support the Second Amendment Foundation at SAF.org

Rob- Third story- Are you armed when you’re getting a cup of coffee?  

It is early in the morning. You pull into a convenience store for gas and a cup of coffee. You’re walking to the register when you see the reaction on the clerk’s face. You turn around and see a man wearing a hoodie and a black mask over his face. He has a gun in his hand. The clerk runs out the back of the store. You draw your gun and step to the side. The thief turns around and runs. He’d robbed another store a half hour earlier.

David- Third party again…although the customer easily could have become the victim had the situation continued.

Rob- This is one of those common events that are rarely covered in the news. The defender didn’t have to fire his gun.

David- He had his gun on him. Being able to present in in time meant that he did NOT have to press the trigger.

Rob- Do you talk about a situation like this with your students?

David- I think that what probably gave the customer time to act more quickly than the robber could react was due to awareness. It sounds like the customer had his head up and recognized what was going on, and took decisive action before the robber even realized he was there.

Exit-  Rob- That wraps up this episode. David, thank you for helping us today.  Where can we learn more about you?

David- My training website is Aegis Solutions  on Facebook, and I’m also at BlackManWithAGun.com

Rob- You can share your thoughts with us by leaving a message on the podcast facebook page.  

David-   If you liked this show, then you’ll like the other podcasts on the Self-defense radio network. We share this podcast with you for free.  Please share it with a friend and give us a rating on I-Tunes and Stitcher.  We’re also available on Google Play Music and Spotify.

Rob- I’m Rob Morse.  We’ll be back next week with more Self-Defense Gun Stories.

Please support Buckeye Firearms Foundation at https://www.buckeyefirearmsfoundation.org/

Episode 113 with Elizabeth Hautman

Can you protect innocent victims at home, at work, and on the street? Firearms instructor Elizabeth Hautman brings us three news stories of armed civilians who protected themselves.. and those they love. (18 minute audio podcast)

Rob- Introduction- Welcome to episode 113 of Self-Defense Gun Stories.  This podcast is for people who might want a gun for self-defense, and for those who already have one.  I’m your host, Rob Morse. We have firearms instructor Elizabeth Hautman with us as co-host.

Hi, Elizabeth.  How have you been?

Elizabeth- Hi, Rob.  I’ve been running a couple classes a week.

Rob-Please introduce our podcast to our new listeners.

Elizabeth- We study three recent examples of armed defense to see what we can learn.  These gun owners survived a life threatening situation because they were armed. What would you do in their place?

Our first story took place last week near Atlanta, Georgia.  Here’s what happened.

Rob- First story-  Are you armed as you buy groceries?  

You’re shopping with your wife after work. Lots of people are picking up supplies for the Father’s Day weekend. Three men approach you as you walk to your car. They are armed. You’re being robbed. You carry concealed. You and your wife run behind your car. You present your firearm and shoot all three robbers. They shoot back, at least for a while. Soon, one of the robbers runs away. One robber drops to the pavement. The third crawls back inside the store.

You and your wife are shaken, but not shot. Your car isn’t so lucky. You call the police.

The police pick up the two robbers and take them to local hospitals. That is where they arrest the third robber who drove away.

Elizabeth- I notice that our defender was alert. His head was probably out of his phone. He noticed that three men with guns walking up behind him was unusual and he acted on that clue. That is what let him with against three attackers.

Rob- Was this a robbery or a carjacking?

Elizabeth- Maybe. We don’t know if the robbers told him what they wanted, or if he noticed them as they approached. It sounds like the first thing the good guys did is move, and that changed everything.

Rob- What do you mean?

Elizabeth- Most couples would stand there frozen. They would wonder who is going to act first. This couple got behind their car. That kept the bad guys from grabbing them. It limited how many of the robbers could approach them at one time. It also absorbed some of the bullets in the gunfight that followed.

Rob- I see that.

Elizabeth- Moving changed the entire dynamic of the event.

The robbers had a plan. The victims would have their eyes down in their phones or be busy loading their groceries. The robbers would quickly confront them and take their money and keys. The victims would never have time to form a plan and act on it.

Instead, the victims moved. Now it was the robbers who had to react to an armed defender. The defenders had cover and the robbers were out in the open in the lane of traffic. The fact that the wife knew to move made this defense possible. If possible, they could move around opposite ends of the car so that the robbers wouldn’t know who to chase, but the important thing to do is to move and do something.

Rob- I thought you were going to say the armed defender shot well.

Elizabeth- He might have, but he made the shooting part much more effective because he was behind his car rather than out in the open. It is more important to avoid getting shot than to be a good shot. These defenders did both.

Rob- Anything else you notice?

Elizabeth- Most armed robberies have multiple attackers, so this isn’t that unusual. I wish both defenders were armed and trained. That would have made their attackers run away sooner and made this husband and wife even safer.

Our second story happened last week east of Orlando in Seminole County, Florida.

Rob- Second Story-  Are you armed at home in the afternoon?   

You are at home with your mom when you hear someone break into your home. You both run upstairs and hide in your bedroom. You grab your gun and retreat into a corner. A stranger opens your bedroom door and you shoot him. He runs. Now you call police. You and your mom are frightened but unharmed.

The police arrest the wounded robber at a nearby gas station. They also arrest two of his accomplices. Both are being charged with murder after their partner died at the hospital.

Elizabeth- See, three attackers again. I’m glad the door was locked so the robbers had to break in. That gives you time to act before the robbers are on top of you.

Rob- Good point. The defenders knew how to use the time they had.

Elizabeth- The defender was a young woman who had some firearms training. It isn’t clear if she pulled her mom into her room where she had her gun, or if the young woman was armed at home and went to her mom’s room to defend them both. Either plan would work.

Rob- She made the robbers come to her.

Elizabeth- She thought about this before it happened. She made the bad guys step around the corner and open her bedroom door. That means she got a turn to defend herself before the robbers got a chance to attack either her or her mom. A good plan means you have an opportunity to act and the bad guys have to react rather than hurt you.  

Rob- What else did you notice.

Elizabeth- I want my students to take care of first things first. Get your defensive tools, a gun and a phone. Gather your loved ones and go someplace safe. Then, get help on the way. Maybe mom was calling the police once they were safely in their bedroom. That isn’t the sort of thing that reporters think to ask. Also, the daughter didn’t chase the robbers. She let the police do that. Good for her.

Our third story happened last week in McComb, Mississippi.

Rob- First this message.

Please support Coloradans for Civil Liberties

Rob- Third story- Are you armed at work?

You work in a convenience store. It is after dark. You hear some noise from the backroom and turn around. The other night clerk is a young woman. She is being pushed back into the store by a man holding a gun to her head. The robber pushes her into the store and waves his gun at both of you.

You’re armed. You wait for a moment and then draw your own handgun. You shoot the robber. He shoots back and you shoot again. Now he runs out the front of the store. You lock the front door and call police. Neither of you are hurt, but you’re both very upset.

The robber looks like the same man who robbed your gas station last week. This time you were armed. The police find the dead robber across the street. They examine the surveillance video, just as they did last week. There are no charges against you.

Elizabeth- Store clerks carry out the trash late at night when there are not many customers around. Criminals wait in the dark near the dumpster so they can sneak in the back entrance. Both clerks needed to be armed..and maybe to have bright lights they could turn on at the back of the store when they went outside.

Rob- I carry the trash out in the dark at least once a week before pick-up day.

Elizabeth- Lots of us do, and it is predictable. Go armed when you go outside at night. The guys with the best plan win, so better yet, carry the trash out while it is still light outside.

Rob- What else did you notice.

Elizabeth- One of the defenders was armed. That is an improvement from last week when they were both disarmed. I hope the defender had the gun on him rather than having it behind the counter. The clerk could have been working on the displays in the middle of the store when the robber came in using the other clerk as a hostage. You don’t have a gun if it is out of reach.

Rob- A lot of gun owners pretend they have a gun for defense, but the gun is out of reach. Do you talk about that with your students?

Elizabeth- That is one of the first things we talk about. Most of them get it.

Both of the store employees did the right thing when they waited their turn to defend themselves. We don’t know how the female clerk was able to move away from the robber. It is important to think about that ahead of time.

I want my students to practice enough so they know how much time and distance they need to use their firearm effectively. That way they can recognize it when the robber gives them the time they need.

Rob- It sounds like the clerk shot once and then stopped. That is when the robber shot back.

Elizabeth- I noticed that. We want to avoid a gunfight where both sides shoot their guns. Practice so that your first shots hit the target. That give you an advantage because you are not shot and your attacker is. Keep shooting until the attacker stops threatening you.

Rob- Anything else?

Exit-  Rob- That wraps up this episode. Elizabeth, thank you for helping us today.  Where can we learn more about you?

Elizabeth- I instruct in Colorado Springs.  I teach small classes at my private range in Black Forest.  Students can contact me at Colorado Boots Firearms Instruction.

Rob- Some of you have shared the articles we post on the podcast facebook page.  You can also leave us a message and share your thoughts, either in public or in private.

Elizabeth-   If you liked this show, then you’ll like the other podcasts on the Self-defense radio network. We share this podcast with you for free.  Please share it with a friend and give us a rating on I-Tunes and Stitcher.  We’re also available on Google Play Music and Spotify.

Rob- I’m Rob Morse.  We’ll be back next week with more Self-Defense Gun Stories.

Please support Doctors for responsible gun ownership, DRGO.us

 

~_~_