Episode 61 with David Cole

Welcome to episode 61 of Self-Defense Gun Stories. Firearms instructor David Cole joins us this week. Together, we report and analyze examples of armed civilian defense. Were these gun owners lucky, or were they prepared? How would you do in their situation?

Introduction- Rob- I’m Rob Morse.  Welcome to episode 61 of Self-Defense Gun Stories.  This show is for  people who think they might want a firearm for self-defense, and those who already have one.  We’re joined this week by self-defense instructor David Cole.

Hi, David.  How have you been?

David- Hi, Rob.  Seems like just yesterday we were hanging out at the NRA Annual Meetings & Exhibits in Atlanta. It sure was a great show this year.

Hi to our new listeners, and welcome back to our regular listeners. We report and analyze three examples of armed civilian defense.  We hope you use these reports as part of your exercise program.. to exercise your imagination today so you can defend the people you care about tomorrow.  Please leave us a message on our facebook page with your questions or comments.

David- Our first story took place last week in Jacksonville, Florida.

Rob- First story-  Are you armed when you arrive home?  You return home at about 10 in the morning.  Unfortunately, a robber is waiting for you.  He follows you to the door and forces his way inside.  He then tries to take your purse and you phone.  You fight.  You grab your handgun and shoot your attacker.  He runs from your home.  You slam the door and call the police.  The police arrest your attacker when he called for medical attention.

David- Fortunately, our good citizen was prepared…she had a gun handy and was ready to use it.

Rob-  We can’t tell how she got her gun.  What do you tell your students?

David- She also did the right thing by calling 911 and reporting the incident.

David- Our second story happened last week in Memphis, Tennessee.

Rob- Second Story-  Are you armed at work late at night.  You work at a liquor store.  It is never completely safe.  Yesterday, the police visited your store to warn you about a series of liquor store robberies in the area.  It is 11 at night when a man walks in wearing a ski mask.  It isn’t cold outside.  The masked man presents a gun and starts yelling at you to get down on the floor.  You draw your pistol and shoot your attacker several times.  You back away and call police.  No one else was injured.  The FBI links the attacker to eight other robberies.

David- This one was kind of obvious, but sometimes it can be difficult to see trouble coming. But a guy in a ski mask in a liquor store at 11 PM is most likely not your friend.

Rob- Talk about a risky occupation.  The police told him to be ready..and he was.

David- The clerk was prepared with a gun of his own, and did what he had to do to defend himself.

Rob- Should we do what a criminal demands?

David- That’s a tough call, and the only 100% correct answer is “it depends.” But compliance doesn’t increase our chances of going home unhurt. There are plenty of examples of robberies where the victim gave the robber what they demanded, and were shot anyway.  My personal opinion is that you are taking a big chance when you count on mercy from someone willing to threaten your life for your purse or wallet.

David- Our third story happened last week in Arlington, Texas.

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Rob- Third story- Are you armed when you visit a sports bar?  You’re sitting in a sports bar with family and friends when you hear the yelling.  A stranger is yelling at everyone.  The restaurant manager goes over to talk the the man.  The stranger is upset, and the manager is trying to calm him down.  The stranger yells louder, then he pulls a gun from his pocket and shoots the manager.  You tell your wife to get on the floor.  You crouch down and draw your own firearm.  People are running wildly.  The attacker is shooting towards people as they run for the front door.  The crowd thins for a second and you take your shot.  The attacker stops shooting.  You and your family leave the scene, but you don’t go far.  You know you have to talk to police.  They say the attacker had two guns and two knives on him.  The manager died at the scene..along with the attacker.  The only other injury was one customer he cut himself on the broken glass as he left.

David-  This one had the potential to be much, much worse..but for a good guy with a gun. And it seems like this week’s theme could easily be Jeff Cooper’s first rule of gunfighting: “Have a gun.”

Rob-

David- Laws regarding carry in bars vary from state to state

Exit- Rob- That wraps up this episode. David, thank you for helping me today.  Where can our listeners learn more about you?

David- Our listeners can find me at

Rob- Our listeners can share their thoughts with us by leaving a message on the podcast facebook page.  

David-  If you liked this show, then you’ll like the other podcasts on the Self-defense radio network.  We create this podcast under a creative commons license, so please share them with a friend, and give us a rating on I-Tunes.

Rob- I’m Rob Morse.  We’ll be back next week with more Self-Defense Gun Stories.

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Episode 53 with David Cole

Welcome to episode 53 of Self-Defense Gun Stories. Firearms instructor David Cole joins us this week. We report and analyze examples of armed civilian defense. Were these gun owners lucky, or were they prepared?

I had to re-record some of the audio.  🙁

Introduction- Rob- I’m Rob Morse, and welcome to episode 53 of Self-Defense Gun Stories.  This podcast is for  people who think they might want a gun for self-defense, and those who already have one.  Firearms instructor Dave Cole is with us this week.

It has been a little cold to compete outside, but other than that, how have you been?

Dave- Hi, Rob.  Yeah, it’s too cold and dark to shoot steel after work, but it’s getting lighter and warmer every day. Check out my latest post at Black Man With A Gun, called “March Madness” for more about the benefits of competition.

Hi to our new listeners, and welcome back to our regular listeners. We report and analyze three examples of armed civilian defense each week.  I hope we inspire you to defend the people you care about.  If you have questions or want to hear more, then please leave us a message on our facebook page.

Our first story took place this month in Nebraska.

First story-  Are you armed at your local barbershop?  You and your brother run a barbershop together.  Your family lives upstairs, and you’re both cutting hair on a Friday morning.  Customers were in the chars and in the shop waiting their turn.  That is when a stranger walked in and pushed to the front of the line.

This stranger was carrying a shotgun and a backpack.  He dropped the backpack on the ground and  pointed the shotgun at you.  He yelled, “You and everyone else, put everything in the bag.”

You glance at your brother.  He nods in reply.

“Here, take it,” you say, as you throw your wallet on the floor.  You and your brother are both licensed to carry.  You’re both armed.  You wait your turn and step back.  Your brother draws first as the thief reaches down to grab your wallet.  Your gun is drawn a second later.  The thief shoots at you, and then both you and your brother are shooting at him.  The thief runs from your barbershop.  The entire robbery was over in seconds and captured on your security video.

You had a plan.  Other stores in the area were robbed.  You knew what you’d do because you talked about it before.  You tell reporters that everyone needs a plan.

The police collected the robber from where he’d collapsed outside.  They took him to a local hospital, and wouldn’t comment on his condition.  The thief’s bullets shattered a mirror on the back wall.  Thank goodness that neither you, your family or your customers were injured.  You and your brother start sweeping up the broken glass.

Dave- Violent attacks happen fast.  Knowing what to do saves you time.  Having a plan can be more important than having the fastest draw. Visualize your daily routine, and when and where an attack might happen. Then think “what would I do?”

Rob-  But practice helps too, doesn’t it?

Dave-  Sure it helps to practice, but practice saves you fractions of a second.  Having a plan can save whole seconds…and that’s a lot. It’s important to note what their plan accomplished, which was to distract the robber by throwing a wallet on the floor, creating the opportunity for the armed brother to draw his gun.

This is the value of “wargaming” scenarios…actually thinking about how a violent encounter might go down, and then how you might deal with it.

Rob-  You don’t have ten seconds to calm down and think.

Dave- Our second story took place in California.

Second Story-  Are you armed at work at 3 in the morning?

It’s a messy business, but someone has to do it if your customers want fresh pastry and doughnuts on their way to work.   You don’t stay in the bakery business if flour and sugar bother you.  All is not sweetness and light here in Lancaster, California.  Being a baker means you go to work in the dark.  Your day is half done by the time most people wake up.  Your daughter owns the shop, but you help her at night.

It was early morning when you heard the crash of glass from the front of the shop.  You looked up and saw two man run past the cash register and head towards the back of the store.  He’s carrying the tire iron he used to break through the front of the store.   Your daughter was back there.  You drew your firearm and fired.  Both thieves turned and ran.  One of the thieves dropped the cash register.  The other one dropped to the pavement outside.

You called police.  You’d thought about what to say because you’d been robbed before at another bakery where you worked. That is why you were carrying today.  You couldn’t get a concealed carry permit since you work in Los Angeles County, but you can still carry at work and at home.  Neither you nor the other employees at the store were hurt.

Dave- (There are California gun owners. Carry at work.  Carry on your body. Protect the people you care about.) Once again, here is a business owner who was prepared. People who work at odd hours such as this bakery owner, convenience store workers, and the like are often at high risk for crime. Rob, you have more intimate knowledge of California gun laws than I do, but it IS possible to have a defensive firearm, right?

Dave- So this baker didn’t simply surrender his safety to restrictive California gun laws; he found a way to do what he could within the constraints of the law to be prepared for violent crime, and it made all the difference.

Dave- Our third story took place in Idaho.

http://www.armedlutheran.us/

Third story- Rob- Are you armed when you’re driving your young daughter to school in the morning?  Monday’s are hard.  You got your 9-year-old daugher up, got her fed and had just dropped her off at school in Boise, Idaho.  You were driving alone and had slowed down to stop at the corner.  That is when a man jumped in front of your car and pulled open the driver’s side door.  You slammed on the brakes and the car stalled.  The carjacker demanded your keys and your purse.  He started hitting you in the head when he didn’t get what he wanted as fast as he wanted it.

Your attacker grabbed your hair and tried to drag you out of your car.  You yelled, “’OK, OK, that’s enough! I’ll give you my purse.”  That is what you said, but that isn’t what you did.  You reached into the console of your car and grabbed your gun.  You turned and pointed your pistol at your attacker.  His plans changed in an instant.  He turned and ran.

You called the police.  The suspect is still at large.

Dave-  Great job to this mom.  She thought about what to do because you don’t have time to think while you’re getting hit in the head.  If there’s a common theme in our stories today, it’s “have a plan.” While the saying that “no plan survives the first contact,” it is still better to have a plan and adapt as necessary, than to have no plan at all.

It was fortunate that her daughter wasn’t with her, which would have made for a much more complex problem.  I can imagine how I would feel if my young nieces were in the car while I was attacked.  But that’s exactly why I carry, and it’s great that this mom was prepared and had her gun near her.

This is where things get complicated.  I want our listeners to imagine they are driving with a child in the back seat.   What if the thief had jumped into the passenger seat and grabbed her purse and her gun?  I’m well trained, and I don’t want to have to solve that problem.

Better if she had her doors locked, especially since the news story doesn’t indicate that the carjacker was armed.  Better still if she had her gun on her person. What if he had managed to drag her out of the car and away from her gun?

 

 

Exit-  Rob- That wraps up this episode. Dave, thank you for helping me today.  Where can our listeners learn more about you?

Dave- I teach in the Cincinnati area.  They can contact me at Aegis Solutions for firearms instruction.  I also write at the Blackman with a Gun website.  Our listeners can reach me at either site. I’d also like to mention that our big “family reunion” is right around the corner…the NRA Annual Meetings & Exhibits, and we’d love to see you there. It’s in Atlanta, Georgia, April 27-30, at the Georgia World Congress Center.

Rob- Our listeners can share their thoughts with us by leaving a message on the podcast facebook page.  

Dave-  We create this podcast under a creative commons license, so please share them with a friend, and give us a rating on I-Tunes.

Rob- I’m Rob Morse.  We’ll be back next week with more Self-Defense Gun Stories.

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Episode 47 with David Cole

Welcome to episode 47 of Self-Defense Gun Stories. Firearms instructor David Cole joins us this week. We report and analyze examples of armed civilian defense. Were these gun owners lucky, or were they prepared?

Introduction-  Rob- I’m Rob Morse, and welcome to episode 47 of Self-Defense Gun Stories.  This show is for new gun owners and people who think they might want a firearm for self-defense. We’re part of the Self-Defense Radio Network.   We have self-defense instructor David Cole with us this week.  How have you been, David?

David – Hi, Rob.  

Hi to our new listeners, and welcome back to our regular listeners. We report and analyze three examples of armed civilian defense each week.  I hope we inspire you to defend the people you care about.  If you have questions or want to hear more, then please leave us a message on our facebook page.

Rob, I have to say I’m really excited to talk about these three cases today, because they all have something in common…probably THE most important thing when it comes to self-defense. I’m not going to say what it is just yet, but I’m sure our listeners will figure it out by the end.

Our first story took place this month in Georgia.

First story-  Are you armed as you drive down the street?  A couple were driving in Midtown Atlanta.  The driver in front of them jumped out of his car and and tried to take theirs.  The victims stopped.  The two men struggled.  That is when the female victim drew her gun and shot their attacker.  Police were on the scene in a minute, even with the downtown traffic.  The carjacker had hit dozens of cars in an ongoing hit and run episode.  Police said the carjacker was on drugs.

David – Great job by the passenger in the car! While there is a lot we don’t know…method of carry, etc…what is apparent is that the passenger in the white Porsche acted quickly and decisively. From what we can tell, it seems that the armed passenger was immediately recognize the threat, decide, and then act without hesitation. That sort of awareness and decisiveness can make all the difference. It may have been very apparent in this case that action was warranted and what that action should be, but what gets folks in trouble all too often is that they aren’t able to see what is happening, accept that it is happening, and act in time to stop an attack.

 

David – Our second story took place just a few miles away, in Cobb County, Georgia.

Second Story-  Are you armed at work?  The store owner and his employee had opened the store only a few minutes earlier.  They already had two customers at Dixie Gun and Pawn.  Two more men entered, but these men were wearing ski-masks and carrying guns.  

“The robbers said, get down on the floor. Get down on the floor or I’ll kill you.”  

Then the robber fired his gun.  The owner drew his firearm and shot one of the robbers.  The second robber ran.  The wounded robber died at the scene.

The store owner said he hated to kill another man.  He had been burglarized many times.  The other store employee and the two customers were uninjured.

David – This is another example of how decisive action made the difference.  Had they been able to establish dominance, the two armed robbers would have been very difficult to overcome. They made it apparent that they were willing to kill to complete their crime, and had they established that dominance over the four people in the store…owner and two customers…they certainly could have killed them all. But the owner acted immediately, before they could establish that dominance…absolutely critical.

Rob- The owner had a plan.

 

David- Our third story took place in North Carolina.

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Third story- Are you armed as you arrive home after work?

A Wilmington woman arrived home after work at 11 in the evening.  She had a cup in one hand with her keys.  She was talking to her dad on the phone.  She unlocked her apartment door when a man pushed her inside.

The robber choked her.  He pushed her into her bedroom and tied her up.  The robber then searched the apartment.  The victim got her hands free and grabbed the gun she keeps beside her bed.  She shot the robber once in the chest.  The robber ran, but collapsed inside the apartment.  The victim called police.

She had the gun for over a year, but this was the first time she’d fired it.

The robber was a felon with over a dozen convictions.

David- Here’s another case where mindset and decisiveness come into play, in a slightly different way. While our armed citizen in this case did prevail…and we’re glad of it…there are some lessons we could take away.

Rob- She was successful, but what can we learn.

David- Some points for improvement are the fact that she wasn’t armed at the initial contact. Her gun was in her apartment, rather than on her person. It’s always going to be better to have it on you than not, if at all possible. It also sounds like although she had her keys in hand and another person on the line as she got out of her car and approached her home, she also had a drink in her hand…sounds like her hands were kind of full. Maybe unavoidable, maybe wouldn’t have made a difference…but definitely not optimal.

Rob-  What if the robber had tied her up in the living room?

David- But we should note that when she had the opportunity to act, she saw the opportunity and took decisive action to save her own life. Rather than give in to what could have been a tragic outcome, she worked to improve her position by getting free of her restraints, and then made a forceful and committed move. It’s a much better option than hoping the predator who just assaulted you and tied you up is going to let you live.

Rob- None of our victims thought they would be attacked.

David- In the unlikely case that anyone has not figured out the common thread in our three cases today…it’s MINDSET.  Recognizing a threat for what it is, and quickly making the decision to act. All three of our armed citizens today took prompt, decisive action to save their own lives in situations where even a moment’s hesitation could have been tragic.

Exit-  Rob- That wraps up this episode. David, thank you for helping me today.  Where can our listeners learn more about you?

David- I teach in the Cincinnati area.  They can contact me at Aegis Solutions for firearms instruction.  I also write at the Blackman with a Gun website.  Our listeners can reach me at either site.

Rob- Our listeners can share their thoughts with us by leaving a message on the podcast facebook page.  

David – If these examples inspired you, then please share them with a friend.  Would you also give us a rating on I-Tunes.

I’m Rob Morse.  Please join us next week for more Self-Defense Gun Stories.

Episode 38 with David Cole

Welcome to episode 38 of Self-Defense Gun Stories. We report and analyze examples of armed civilian defense each week.

Introduction-  Rob- Welcome to episode 38 of Self-Defense Gun Stories.  This podcast is part of the Self-Defense Radio Network.  I’m Rob Morse and we’re joined this week by self-defense instructor David Cole.  How have you been, David?David Cole

David – Hi, Rob.  We dodged a bullet in the last election, but we have to make sure the republican’s don’t make excuses.

Rob- Politicians won’t do more than we expect them to do.

David- I wrote about this at Black Man With A Gun.. and the article was called…Roll Up Your Sleeves.  Firearms owners cannot let down our guard, and we need to seize this opportunity to make some strides towards restoring the 2nd Amendment.  I hope we’ll see some improvements in my state of Kentucky.

Rob- I hope you’re right.

Hi to our new listeners, and welcome back to our regular listeners. Together, we report and analyze examples of armed civilian defense.  We inform you about the news, and I hope we inspire you to defend the people you care about.

Our first story took place this month in Michigan.

First story-  Are you armed at home?  Eight young men broke into a home in Lansing Michigan last week.  That’s right, there were eight of them, and the robbers were armed.  Fortunately, so was the homeowner.  It isn’t clear who fired first.  We know the robbers fired at the homeowner.  The homeowner wasn’t injured, and he shot two of the teenage robbers.  Most of the teens ran after the shooting started.  Two were arrested at the scene.  One robber received a shoulder wound and was driven to the hospital by an accomplice in the getaway car.  One teen ran into a nearby woods.  It is his good luck that the robber was quickly discovered by a policeman.  The officer saved the teen’s life by applying a tourniquet to his bleeding leg.  The robbers were from 18 years old down to 13 years old.  Police record showed several break ins in the area during the last month.  The 17 and 18 year old are being charged as adults.  They already have a police record.

David – Win for the good guy.

Rob-  Is a revolver enough gun?

David – We can always debate ammo capacity, etc., but software will always be more important than hardware.

Rob-  He had the training and the attitude to defend himself from young men.

David – Our second story took place in Missouri.

Second Story-  Are you armed at when you’re working in your garage?  A 73 year old man was working in the garage of his Saint Louis home.  Two young men entered the garage at about 4 in the afternoon.  The armed robbers immediately put a gun to the elderly man’s head and pushed him into the back garage.  The robbers demanded the keys to the man’s truck that was parked in the driveway.  The elderly man drew his gun and fought back.  Though he fired only five times, the victim hit his attackers in the chest with every shot.  The 18 and 20 year old robbers were unable to leave the garage before they died.  Police collected the robber’s two guns at the crime scene.  The homeowner and his wife were shaken, but not physically injured.

Rob- It is hard to defend yourself that way.

David- Empty hands skills and close quarters shooting skills are specialized and should be practiced. If you’ve never fired a gun in close quarters, professional instruction is a must.

Rob-  This armed homeowner did a better job than the average security or law enforcement officer.

David – Another win for the good guys! Mindset and being prepared to fight allowed the homeowner to prevail.

Rob- David, you practice them both.  In fact you teach them both.  Just how good was this man’s performance?  How much practice would you expect before your students could do as well?

David- Exposure helps, but you need regular practice.

David- Our third story took place in Idaho.

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Third story- Are you armed when you’re at home?  A young man and his dad were at home on a quiet morning.  They heard a banging noise from down the hall.  They left their rooms in this rural home in Rigby, Idaho and moved into the center of the house.  Each thought it was the other making the noise, but it wasn’t.

The homeowner had arrived moments before.  He went back outside and saw a stranger crawling out a back-bedroom window.  The robber saw the homeowner and crawled back inside.  The father and son then went back inside and walked toward the back of the house.  The son had followed his dad down the hallway.  The son also grabbed his shotgun from the gun case as he followed his dad. The homeowner walked into an unused room, and the robber immediately started shooting a handgun at the dad and son.

The two residents ran back out of the room as fast as they could.  Then, the son stepped forward and shot the robber once in the abdomen.  The robber dropped his gun.  The two residents retreated and called police.  Emergency medical technicians removed the robber from the victim’s front lawn.  The 30 year old robber is in the hospital.  The victims did not know the armed robber.  The armed young man is a highschool student and had hunted for years.  

David-  They were fortunate that they were able to access a firearm in time.

Rob- Could they have backed out of this problem and never traded shots with the robber?

David- Almost certainly. Better to back out and call police than get into a fight if possible.

Rob- It would have been better if they were both armed, but the young man might be under age to have his CCW.

David- Very true. It appears that they did at least have a gun staged and accessible, which is a consideration if home carry isn’t an option.

Rob- Pants on gun on.  POGO.

David- I think it is also interesting to look at the time of day…in the morning.  Not when we typically think of a crime occurring.

Rob- Druggies need a fix when they need a fix.

Exit-  Rob- That wraps up this episode. David, thank you for helping me today.  Where can our listeners find out more about you?

David- I teach in the Cincinnati area.  They can contact me at Aegis Solutions for firearms instruction.  I also write at the Blackman with a Gun website.  Our listeners can reach me at either site.

Rob- Our listeners can share their thoughts with us by leaving a message on the podcast facebook page.  

David – If these examples inspired you, then please share them with a friend and give us a rating on I-Tunes.

I’m Rob Morse.  Please join us next week for more Self-Defense Gun Stories.

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Episode 32 with David Cole

Welcome to episode 32 of Self-Defense Gun Stories. We report and analyze examples of armed civilian defense each week.

Introduction- Rob- We’re back with episode 32 of Self-Defense Gun Stories.  This podcast is part of the Self-Defense Radio Network.  I’m Rob Morse and we’re joined this week by self-defense instructor David Cole.  How have you been, David?David Cole

David – Hi, Rob.  Hi to our new listeners, and welcome back to our regular listeners. Together, we report and analyze examples of armed civilian defense.  We inform you about the news, and I hope we inspire you to defend the people you care about.

Our first story took place this month in Georgia.

First story-  Are you armed at home?  Police now believe it was a robbery, but a man and woman didn’t know what to believe when they were jolted awake.  They heard three man breaking in the front door of their Atlanta area home at 4 in the morning.

The woman immediately grabbed her gun.  She then walked towards the sounds and saw three man inside her home near the front door.  They were armed.  The female homeowner immediately shot at the intruders.  Two of the robbers ran and shot at the home as they left..  One of them tried to run, but died at the scene.  There were no other occupants of the home.

What is the first skill she needs, and where would she learn them?

David – Some “next steps” gun handling training

David – Of course, the big question is are you armed and home? Where is your gun?

David – Do you lock your doors? What if they had not had to kick the door? Would she have heard them in time?

David – She went to investigate. Should she have? I don’t think this is as simple as it seems. We are always taught to not search, but to bunker down and call police. Is this realistic? Is this ALWAYS the right answer? (FLASHLIGHT!)

David – Our second story took place in Florida.

Second Story-  Are you armed at work and on the street.. Or both?   

An employee at the Walmart in Sunrise, Florida was the victim of an attempted robbery.  The victim was waiting in his car before he could clock in.  A young man came up the the victim at about 4 AM and showed the victim a gun.  The robber then demanded that the victim turn over all his possessions.  The robber probably didn’t think that own of those possessions was a loaded gun.  The victim shot the robber several times.  He then ran into the store and asked for help.  Police pronounced the robber dead at the scene.  A victim’s sister said that their entire family has their permits.  A co-worker was surprised that the victim was armed.  Quote, “He’s a pretty mellow guy. If you ever get to meet him and talk to him, you wouldn’t even expect him to be able to defend himself like that because he’s very quiet and friendly.”

David – Not clear if he had to shoot from inside the car or outside.

Rob-  If you were in that situation, would you try to leave the car or would you try to stay inside your car?

David – I think that is hard to say, and is going to depend on the situation. While it might be difficult to draw while seated in a car (you should practice this), getting out takes time. That said, it also makes you a moving target, and movement can work to your advantage. Maybe an even better answer is to simply drive away? Do you leave your car locked while sitting in it? Running?

Important to note that this is one of the problems with employers who don’t allow guns on property, especially in states without “parking lot” laws.

David- Our third story took place in New Mexico.

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Armed Citizen Legal Defense Network at https://armedcitizensnetwork.org/  The tracking code is 15625 or “Paul Lathrop.

Third story- Are you armed when you’re at home?  An 70 year old man was at his home just outside Albuquerque, New Mexico.  He walks with a cane.  Neighbors said he has difficulty moving.  Quote, “..a strong breeze would push him over. “He wasn’t expecting visitors when a man stranger broke into his home at 5:30 in the afternoon.  The old man was expecting trouble and he wasn’t a pushover despite his age.  The surprised homeowner was hit on the head with a bamboo pole, and with a hockey stick.  The intruder was shot once in the chest and died at the scene.

David-  Sounds like the homeowner had a gun with him.  Who called the police?  Even if a neighbor calls the police before you do, you want to call as soon as you can.

Rob- This is why you lock your doors.

David- While in this case, the bad guy wasn’t calling anybody, in about 92% of armed self defense cases, no shots are fired. That means there is likely to be more than one version of the story told to police, and you want to get your version in first. The first caller is going to be considered the “victim”…if you are the second caller, or don’t call at all, you may well be considered to be the “suspect.” Just ask Paul Lathrop!

David- Also interesting to note the time of day…5:30 in the afternoon. It’s easy to envision the late night intruder, but what about in the middle of the day? Again, are your doors locked? Do you open the door for unexpected visitors? Might want to think about that.

 

Exit-  Rob- That wraps up this episode. David, thank you for helping me today.  Where can our listeners find out more about you?

David – I teach in the Cincinnati area.  They can contact me at Aegis Solutions for firearms instruction.  I also write at the Blackman with a Gun website.  Our listeners can reach me at either site.

Rob- Our listeners can share their thoughts with us by leaving a message on the podcast facebook page.  

David – If these examples inspired you, then please share them with a friend and give us a rating on I-Tunes.

I’m Rob Morse.  Please join us next week for more Self-Defense Gun Stories.CPRC_webPlease support the Crime Prevention Research Center at Crime Research.org

 

Episode 22 with David Cole

Welcome to episode 22 of Self-Defense Gun Stories. We report and analyze examples of armed civilian defense each week.

Introduction- Rob- Welcome to episode 22 of Self-Defense Gun Stories.  I’m Rob Morse and I’m helped this week by instructor David Cole.David Cole

David-  Hi, Rob.  Hello new listeners, and our regular listeners. Each week we report and analyze examples of civilian defense.  Our first example took place last week just south of Dallas, Texas.

First story-  Rob- A 26 year old man walked into a Waffle House restaurant carrying a rifle.  He robbed the store and the customers who were in the restaurant at 2 in the morning.  One customer was carrying concealed.  This customer expected his wife to join him at the restaurant any moment.  The customer followed the robber into the parking lot.  The customer shouted.  The robber turned and raised his rifle.  The customer shot the robber several times.  The robber dropped the rifle and collapsed on the pavement.  The robber is now on life support in a Dallas hospital.

David, I keep hearing that a person with a pistol is no match against a person with a rifle, so how did this happen?

David-  While a pistol may not be as effective as range increases, capabilities and limitations are much more a factor of the software…the person behind the gun…than the hardware. All things being equal, a rifle is going to be a more effective weapon than a pistol. But all things are rarely equal. In fact, Jeff Cooper’s “Combat Triad,” consists of marksmanship, gun handling, and mindset…the actual gun is not mentioned at all.

Rob- 2am.  Shooting by street lights.. And making hits on your attacker.

David-  Lighting is a big factor not just in being able to shoot accurately, but in being able to correctly identify a threat. In this case, it seems that there was enough available light, but as armed citizens, we shouldn’t depend on that.  Always carry a good source of white light, and incorporate it into your shooting practice.

Rob-  We normally tell people to let the criminal go and leave the arrest to the police.

David-  Correct. Normally, we would not want to follow a robber after the robbery has been completed and has left the area…that would be difficult to justify as self defense.  I do understand that in this case he was concerned that his wife might be arriving and was concerned for her safety. This is something that we had better be able to articulate when we are justifying a shooting.

Our next story took place in Kentucky

Second Story-  Rob- A homeowner in Brandenburg returned to his home and found a side door open and a storm door smashed.  Their security camera caught the entire robbery.  The robber shot the family dog, threw a knife at the dog, and then shot the dog again with an antique pistol the robber found in the home.  

The homeowner came through the door with his gun drawn.  The thief had a knife in his hands and the homeowner ordered him to the ground.  The thief complied, and was arrested by police.  

The thief was charged with burglary, theft by unlawful taking, receiving stolen property and animal cruelty.  The dog is recovering too.

Did this homeowner do the right thing?

David-  There’s a saying in training circles, “fortuitous outcomes reinforce poor tactics.”

Rob- you mean he was lucky.

Dave- In this case, while the outcome was positive, the homeowner did get lucky to a degree.

Unless there is a pressing reason to enter the home (other family members inside), a safer course of action would have been to stay outside and call the police. Searching a structure solo is very dangerous, and it could have ended very differently if the burglar was determined to fight.

Another concern…something to think about…is how to handle things when the police arrive.  We’re standing there with a gun out…we need to think about how we are going to avoid being shot ourselves by the police.

 

Our third story took place in Texas

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Third story-  Rob-  A 19 year old robber entered the convenience store in Lancaster Texas wearing gloves and with a mask over his face.  He put a bag on the counter and demanded the clerk hand over the money in the cash register.  The clerk grabbed the gun he keeps behind the counter and pointed it at the robber.  The robber pulled up his shirt and started to present a gun of his own.  That is when the clerk shot the robber once in the chest.  The robber collapsed at the door and was pronounced dead at a local hospital.

What if the clerk had been standing somewhere else, or if the robber had walked around the counter?

David- That’s an excellent point, and probably the biggest takeaway here. A gun under a counter (or in a nightstand, etc) is only useful if we are in a position to reach it. The BEST way to carry a defensive gun is to carry the defensive gun on your person. It would be understandable if in a state where guns are available, but carry permits are not, but this was in Texas. If you don’t have a permit and you can get one in your state, then get one…and then carry your gun.

Rob- I doubt the clerk had to use the sights on the gun.

Exit-  Rob- That wraps up this episode. Thank you for helping me today, David.  Where can our listeners learn more about you?

David- They can contact me at Aegis Solutions, and at Blackman with a Gun.

Rob- Our listeners can leave us a message on the podcast facebook page.

I’m Rob Morse.  Please join us next week for more Self-Defense Gun Stories.

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Episode 14 with David Cole

Welcome to episode 14 of Self-Defense Gun Stories. We report and analyze examples of armed civilian defense each week.

cropped-SelfDefenseGunStories_Header_v2-2.jpgIntroduction- Welcome to episode 14 of Self-Defense Gun Stories.  I’m Rob Morse back with self-defense instructor David Cole.  Hello, David.

David-  Hi, Rob.  We report and analyze examples of armed civilian defense each week.  Our first example happened in a Houston Texas suburb.

First story-  We’ve all heard gun owners make this excuse.  I’ll only carry a gun when I go some place dangerous. Is a few blocks from a police station a dangerous place?   Is a McDonalds drive through a dangerous place?  Is 2pm in the afternoon a dangerous time?  They were this time, and thank goodness this dad had a gun.

A 37 year old man was sitting in his truck and waiting in the drive through line.  His 4 year old son was strapped into the car seat behind him.  A stranger walked up and put a gun to the driver’s side window.  We don’t know if the robber wanted cash, or wanted the truck.  We do know that the two men fought while the driver was still inside his truck.  The driver presented his legally owned firearm and shot the robber three times.  The gun owner then stayed at the scene and called police. We know the gun owner also contacted his wife, and his attorney.   The gun owner’s wife came to pick up their child.  The criminal had two prior drug arrests.

David- Pushing away a gun.  Any empty hand disarm or deflection of a gun is extremely risky. Get training.

Rob- David, you teach Aikido, and you think this is hard to do.

Dave-Presentation while seated in a vehicle.

Adam Painchaud of Sig Sauer Academy has a great video on the NSSF YouTube channel on this topic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ek50iqNOfus

  • Practice dry, and consider some alternative carry methods while driving as Adam suggests

Rob- Dave, what does that mean?  What are other ways to carry a firearm in a vehicle?

Dave- Be aware of your muzzle if addressing a driver’s side threat as in this scenario. Shooting yourself in the arm is not the recommended response!  Also consider non-shooting alternatives. Could you just drive away? Always leave enough room to get away…even in a drive through. Other customers might be annoyed if you don’t pull up close, but leave space to escape. Do you put your car in park in a drive through? Don’t. Leave it in gear and ready to go. Situational awareness is also key…how was the suspect able to walk up on the vehicle?  So driving over and through the bushes is an option.

Second Story-  If you only bring your gun with you in a dangerous place, then you need to have one in your home.

An elderly couple was still in bed at 6:30 on a Saturday morning.  The couple first knew something was wrong when a woman felt someone lay on her.  It wasn’t her husband, and she fought off the stranger.  The fight and her screams woke her husband.  The 60 year old woman had already knocked the intruder down by the time her husband had grabbed his gun.  The male homeowner then held the intruder for police.

The homeowner said he was angry, but realized that the intruder was unarmed, and not an immediate threat as long as he stayed put on the floor.  The homeowner didn’t shoot.

Police investigators say the intruder was out of jail on probation for auto theft.  The intruder had been arrested several times for drug charges, and robbery.

David-  Presence of mind to determine that a home invader is not an immediate threat.

  • Rule 4 of firearms safety says that you must be sure of your target.
  • Castle doctrine may say that legally you may shoot someone in your home, but do you want that on your conscience if it turns out to have been unnecessary?
  • Have a light either mounted on your gun, or with your gun. You MUST be able to ID the threat in order to make a reasonable decision whether or not to shoot.
  • I learned a lot from Andrew Branca’s book, the “Law of Self Defense”!
  • Massad Ayoob- “Deadly Force”

Rob- I’m glad you mentioned a flashlight.  This attack took place in the dim, but our next story takes place in the dark.

poing blank range logo transPoint Blank Range

Third story-   A mentally disturbed man lived in a nearby home.  He tried to break into the wrong house, but the first home that the intruder tried to enter had a reinforced door.  The occupants told the intruder to go away.  The intruder went to yet another home in this Seattle neighborhood and started throwing furniture through the front window as he yelled and cursed.

This homeowner heard the break in.  He retreated with his wife and two daughters to their back bedroom.  The homeowner also had his gun and a phone.  One of his daughters called police.  After the stranger broke through the front door, the homeowner left the back room and shot him.

Arriving deputies heard the shots and found the wounded suspect in the front yard. They applied a  tourniquet to the intruder’s leg before medics transported him to the hospital.  
David- The homeowner was doing such a great job until he left the bedroom.  Don’t go looking for trouble.

  • Another scenario where the shooting might have been legally justified, but was it necessary?
  • Wouldn’t it have been better if the family was able to just wait for police and let them handle it?
  • This home invasion happened at 4AM, so there wasn’t a lot of light to see what was going on.  The reports didn’t mention a flashlight, so the homeowner is working in low light or no light.
  • If you’re going to retreat to the kid’s room in the back of the house, it would be great to have a flashlight and phone in that room.  (And maybe a first aid kit?) Plenty of confusion and tension between family members.
  • Think how much better they would feel if they had rehearsed this plan to shelter in place.  They might have acted better too.

Exit- That wraps up this episode. David, thank you for helping me today.  Where can our listeners find you?

David Cole- They can contact me at Aegis Solutions, and at Blackman with a Gun.

Rob- Our usual schedule is going to change next week, but we’ll be back.  Listeners can always find us and leave a comment at self defense gun stories dot com.  I’m Rob Morse and please join us next week for more Self-Defense Gun Stories.

Please join the Second Amendment Society at SAF.org

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Episode 6 with David Cole

Welcome to episode 6 of Self-Defense Gun Stories. We report and analyze examples of armed civilian defense each week.

 

Introduction- Welcome to episode 6 of Self-Defense Gun Stories.  I’m Rob Morse with self-defense instructor and handgun competitor David Cole.  Hello, David.  Together, we report and analyze examples of armed civilian defense each week.

David- Our first example took place last month in Nashville, Tennessee.

First story-  Self defense inside a gated community  It was the middle of the night when an apartment owner heard someone banging at his bedroom window.  The owner called police and picked up his pistol.  A minute later, a stranger kicked in the owner’s back door.  The owner stayed in his bedroom.  The robber came into the bedroom and the homeowner shouted for the intruder to stop.  The robber reached for his gun, and the defender shot him.  The intruder ran from the home.

The intruder had a criminal history.  He had a pistol inside the waistband of his pants.  The resident cooperated with police and is not expected to face charges.  The apartment complex is a gated community and police are trying to identify how the armed robber got inside.

Easy entry to a gated community. Concealment inside your bedroom. How long does it take to walk to another room, unlock a gun and load it. 

Cover vs concealment. Verbal warning on entry- I’ve called to police and I’m armed. 

Second Story- Saved by a good grandson with a gun–  An older woman was driven to her bank by her grandson.  The grandson parked the car, and grandma walked up to her bank ATM.  This was at 10pm.  An armed  stranger approached the older woman.  The stranger demanded the woman’s money and waved the gun close to her face.  The grandson saw the intruder, saw his gun, and stepped out of his car.   The grandson drew his own firearm.  The robber fired first.  The grandson fired second, and hit the robber.  The robber ran from the scene. All this happened in Selma, Alabama.

David, was there time to get a gun from the trunk of his car? Grandson carried concealed.  When was the grandson justified in using lethal force? When do gun owners learn to draw a concealed firearm? 

First they learn range safety, Progress to concealed carry laws, Range practice, Presentation practice, Concealed practice, Shooting while you move and think

How long would that take to learn, not to competition levels, but to present a firearm safely?

poing blank range logo trans

Point Blank Range

Third story- Saved by another employee– Joseph Curry drove up to the Jacksonville, Florida landscape company where he worked.  People were running from the building yelling that another employee was shooting people inside.  Curry got out of his car and stepped into the building with his gun.  That is when Curry met the armed attacker holding a pistol in his hands.  Evidently the attacker’s gun had jammed, and the attacker was heading outside to get a baseball bat from his truck.

Curry told the attacker to drop the gun.  The attacker saw Curry’s gun.  The attacker dropped his gun and ran. Curry let him go.   The attacker was arrested by police a few blocks away.

David- No shots fired
Time to go back to his car after he saw the attacker?
Cover?
When and why was Curry justified to use lethal force?
There were other employees in the building.
The defender stopped mass murder.

Exit- That wraps up this episode.  David, thank you for helping me today.  Where can our listeners find you?

David Cole- They can contact me at Aegis Solutions, and at Blackman with a Gun.

Rob- Thank you for reminding me, Dave.  Listeners can find us and leave a comment at self defense gun stories dot com, and on our facebook page.

I’m Rob Morse and please join us next week for more Self-Defense Gun Stories.

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