Episode 131 with Elizabeth Hautman

These gun owners were armed on the street, at home, and at work. Were they lucky or were they prepared? What would you do if you were in their situation?

Rob- Introduction- I’m glad you found us and welcome to episode 131 of Self-Defense Gun Stories.

This podcast is for people who are curious about a firearm for self-defense, and for those who already own one. I’m your host, Rob Morse. We’re joined this week by self defense instructor Elizabeth Hautman.

Elizabeth- Hi, Rob.  I’ve been working and shooting and selling gift certificates for the holidays.

Rob- Elizabeth, how do you listen to the show?

Elizabeth– I listen to it on Itunes.

Rob- That is how most people listen. Please put us in your pocket every week, and give us rating on I-Tunes and Stitcher. Please leave a comment to tell us what you liked about the show.

Please introduce our podcast to our new listeners.

Elizabeth- We study several examples where gun owners survived a life threatening situation. Were they lucky, or did they have a plan? What should we do if we were in their place? Our first story took place last week in Thomasville, Georgia.

Rob- First story-  Do you have your firearm on you when you go to your bank?

You’re walking out of the Suntrust bank at 2 in the afternoon. A man walks up besides you. He grabs your arm and he tries to grab your purse. You pull your purse away from him, but he draws his gun and demands you hand over your purse. You draw your gun and the robber runs away. You go back into the bank and call police.

Elizabeth- Good she had an attitude to not be a victim.

Rob- Before you tell us more, is this sort of robbery unusual? Someone walked up to this lady in daylight right outside a bank.

Elizabeth-  Good she had a gun

Rob- What else do you see?

Elizabeth- I wish she’d had more practice because she drew her gun while someone else had their gun pointed at her, and she did not fire her gun. That makes me think she was slow and her attacker might not have had a real gun.

Rob- Does she have the right to defend herself from being robbed?

Elizabeth-  

Rob- What do you want your students to do in this situation?

Elizabeth- Let’s wait and I’ll explain that during our second story?
Rob- What is the minimum training you want someone to have before they are safe to carry a firearm in public?

Elizabeth- Safety. Safe storage. Loading and unloading. Basic handling.

That is enough for now. Our second story happened last week in Shively, Kentucky.

Rob- Second Story-  Are you armed as you drive your car?   

You’re going back to your car after doing your shopping. It is a little after 9 at night. Two men approach you and ask you for a light. You reach into your car for a lighter, and you’re facing a gun to your head when you turn back around. You move and draw your own gun. The attackers shoot at you as they run away. You shoot back. The robbers missed you. Other witnesses say your attackers limped as he got into a getaway car.

Police arrest both robbers at a nearby hospital where they sought treatment. In addition to robbery, one of your attackers had an outstanding warrant for his arrest.

Elizabeth, explain why the victim had a right to use lethal force to defend himself?

Elizabeth- Immediate and unavoidable threat of death.

Rob- Well that is pretty clear.

Elizabeth- Also, this might have been avoidable. Don’t hang around outside the store in the dark. It is a transition space and people can appear out of the darkness and cause problems for you.

Rob- We have holiday shopping coming up in a few weeks. What else?

Elizabeth- Thank goodness he had a gun and the training to use it.

Rob- What did this victim do that was different from the victim in our first story?

Elizabeth- He had a plan and he practiced.

He moved as he drew his firearm. He quickly presented his firearm and shot his attackers. Our third story happened last week in Spokane, Washington.

Rob- First this message from my good friends at FASTER Colorado.

Please support Coloradans for Civil Liberties

Rob- Third story- Are you armed while you’re at work in the evenings?

You own a convenience store. Tonight you are behind the checkout counter. The next customer walks up and instead of dropping some chips on the counter or saying he wants to pre-pay for gas, this man is wearing a bandana over his face and has a knife pointed at you. The robber says, “Give me the money.”

You take a step back and draw your gun from under the counter. Before you say anything, the robber is running out the door. You call 911 and then show the police the video from your security cameras.

Elizabeth- Good work, but that isn’t best practice. That isn’t what I want my students to do.

Rob- What should we do if we faced a man with a knife?

Elizabeth- A knife is a lethal threat, so you have the right to use lethal force to stop that threat and save your life. It is your duty, and you have to think about how to perform that duty before you face the threat. There are lots of times during the day when the store owner is away from the cash register and I want him to be able to protect himself all the time.  You don’t have a gun to protect the money, you have a gun to protect your life, so have the tools you need on your body where you need them, not at the cash register.

Rob- OK

Elizabeth- I’m glad the store owner had a gun, but I want him to get much more training.

Rob- Why do you think he wasn’t proficient with his firearm?

Elizabeth- It is one motion to clear your garments away from your gun, grab your gun, present it in front of you as you put your hands together, see the gun sights on the target, and press the trigger to fire. If he practiced, then that is one motion and one thought, but our defender didn’t fire. That means our defender was slow and the attacker had time to run away. Good decision for the defender to not shoot once the robber turned and started to run.

Rob- You’re saying that presenting your gun and shooting is a single action, like clapping your hands.

Elizabeth- Yes, it is that fast. Once you decide to shoot you’ve got a shot on the way in a little over a second. That isn’t enough time for your attacker to see your gun, decide what to do, turn and move toward the door.  That is why we know that this defender needs to practice.

Let’s move on. We go to Natchez, Mississippi for our fourth story.

Rob- Fourth story- Are you have a firearm where you can get it as you get out of bed?

Your wife shakes you awake at little after sunrise Saturday morning. She says she heard someone moving around outside and knocking at your front door. You live in a gated community. You have a gate to your property and you are not expecting visitors. You look out your window and notice that the doors are open on your truck sitting in the driveway.

You pull on pants and put on your gun. As you walk out to your truck, you notice that the doors are open on the cars in your garage too. A stranger is sitting in one of your cars. You walk up, point your gun at him, and tell him not to move. Your wife has already called the police. The robber was charged with four counts of burglary and a misdemeanor charge of malicious mischief.

Elizabeth- Good that he had security cameras. Bad that he didn’t use them until later when he showed them to the police.  Good that he had a gun. Bad that he didn’t call the police and let them arrest the robber while our defender stayed inside and kept his family safe. You don’t want to kill someone to protect your truck, but you must protect your family.

Rob- When to your teach your students about the right and the wrong time to use lethal force?

Elizabeth- What classes come before and after legal use of lethal force?

Exit-  Rob- that wraps up this episode. Elizabeth, thank you for helping us again. Where can we learn more about you?

Elizabeth- I instruct in Colorado Springs.  I teach small classes at my private range in Black Forest.  Students can contact me at Colorado Boots Firearms Instruction.

Rob- Let us know what you think by leaving us a message on the podcast facebook page.  

Elizabeth- We share this podcast with you for free.  Please share the podcast with a friend and give us a rating on I-Tunes and Stitcher.  We’re also available on Google Play Music and Spotify.

Rob- This podcast is part of the Self-defense radio network at sdrn.us

I’m Rob Morse.  We’ll be back next week with more Self-Defense Gun Stories.

Episode 122 with Elizabeth Hautman

Can you defend yourself at home, in public, at work, and as you drive? How will you protect your family when there is no time to think? You need a plan. Instructor Elizabeth Hautman brings us four new stories of self-defense. (25 minute audio podcast)

Rob- Introduction- Welcome to episode 122 of Self-Defense Gun Stories.  This podcast is for people who are thinking about a firearm for self-defense, and for those who already own own. I’m your host, Rob Morse. We have self defense instructor Elizabeth Hautman with us as co-host.

Hi, Elizabeth.  I know you’ve been teaching and advertising at summer fairs the last few weeks.

Elizabeth- Hi, Rob.  I’ve been working and shooting and I even got to watch the outhouse races.

Rob- Elizabeth, someone asked us how they can listen. Most people have an application on their cell phone that automatically loads each new episode. Please tell our new listeners what they have in their pocket.

Elizabeth- We’re going to look at several news stories about armed defense.  These gun owners survived a life threatening situation, but were they lucky, or smart, or did they have a plan? What should we do if we were in their place, and how would we learn those new skills?

Our first story took place last week in Elmira, New York.

Rob- First story-  Do you have a gun nearby when your family is waking up early in the morning?  

It is Sunday morning, so you get to sleep in. You’re at home with your wife and four young children. You’re jolted awake when you hear a crashing sound from the front of your house. Someone kicked in your front door. You keep a shotgun in the corner. You grab your gun and walk toward the front of the house. A stranger is standing in your house and walks toward you. You shoot him once. Now he turns around. You stop shooting.

Your wife grabs the children and calls police. The intruder was a felon who served time for robbery.

Rob- This story sounds scary, but is it that unusual?

Elizabeth- Self defense thousands of times a day. Most are assaults in public, but many of them are inside your home or business.

Rob- What is the first thing we should do to defend ourselves?

Elizabeth- Have a plan to protect yourself and your family. That usually means you’ll want a gun as part of your plan.

Rob- You didn’t say, get your gun. You said the first thing to do is to make a plan.

Elizabeth- Once you’re attacked there is too much to do and no time to do it. That is why you want to talk about this and rehearse the possible scenarios ahead of time with your spouse..and later as they grow up, with your children.   Just like when I taught my children about fire drills. It is not to panic them but to equip them with the skills and knowledge to handle the situation. And every child is different, as the parent, you get to decide at what level and how much information that will educate your children but not scare them.

Rob- What comes first.

Elizabeth- If you had a fire then you’d wake up your family and get them out of the house. Then you’d grab a fire fighting tool like a fire extinguisher. If you had an intruder, you’d grab your defensive tool, your gun, and your spouse grabs the kids and then calls 911.

The man grabbed a gun and went to investigate, because it was not a door to door salesman knocking at the door, it was an intruder who kicked his way inside. Your family is in danger right now and protecting them comes first.

Rob- That means a lot, because I could waste a lot of time calling 911 when I needed to protect my family.

Elizabeth- It sounds like the adults worked together. Someone called the police before the intruder was shot. I imagine that was the wife making a call on her cell phone. That’s great. She updated the police after shots were fired and her family was safe. If you can, stay on the phone until the police arrive. That is hard to do as you take care of four children.

Rob- What do you recommend for home defense.

Elizabeth- This is what I tell my students. If you conceal carry, then use the tool you know best. That may be your handgun. If you’re a hunter who doesn’t carry a handgun every day, then again use the tool you’re most comfortable with.

Rob- What would you tell a stay at home mom or dad to carry?  This question comes up in my classes quite a bit.

Elizabeth- I want them to get a permit and carry all the time. Until then, carry on body at home. You say you’re a stay at home parent, but your out of the home a lot. You go to school, to the store, to the gym, to the mailbox or to a neighbor’s house. You might be working in the yard. I want you to have your defensive tool all the time, that means a handgun that is carried on your body.

You took driving lessons to drive a car. You’d take swimming lessons if you didn’t know how to swim, or take lessons to learn how to ride a horse or scuba dive. We aren’t born knowing those things. Take a class and learn how to use your defensive tool.

Rob- Do you give your students homework?

Elizabeth- I do. Sometimes I go to their home and we walk through it together.  Sometimes another pair of eyes can look at situations and floorplans in different ways.  I can also suggest tools to keep your firearm accessible and unavailable to unauthorized people – kids…

Rob- What sort of things are you looking for.

Elizabeth- Start with inexpensive fixes – trim hedges away from the house – eliminating dark hiding places for bad guys, proper lighting, possible timers with different schedules to turn lights on and off when you are not around – especially as fall approaches and it is getting dark earlier.  Deadbolts, gun safes,

Rob- Anything else?

Elizabeth- That is enough for now. Our second story happened last week in Redding, California.

Rob- Second Story-  Are you armed when you’re helping someone with their homework?   

You’re visiting your girlfriend. It is a weeknight and lots of people are in the house. Your girlfriend’s cousin is working on homework and you are helping her. You’re also holding a four month old infant in your arms. Two men start a loud argument, and the homeowner tells them to go outside. They go outside, but they keep fighting.

You walk outside and ask them to stop. One of the men attacks you as you’re holding the infant. He hits you in the face several times. The child slips from your arms, but you catch her before she hits the ground.

You own a gun. You have your concealed carry permit. You’re carrying concealed today. You draw your gun and shoot your attacker once in the chest. Now he stops hitting you.

You shout for other people to call police. You stay on the porch until the police arrive.

EMTs said your attacker was dead when they arrived. The police identified your attacker and said he was a registered sex offender and had a long record of crimes and run-ins with the law.

Elizabeth- This is important?

Rob- Why?

Elizabeth- Suppose someone who is my own size and strength hits me. That isn’t considered a lethal threat. I can backup, or run away, or hit back to protect myself.

If I have a child in my arms then I need to immediately stop the threat for the safety of the innocent child. Thank god this man had a gun.

Rob- I’m imagining that I was in this man’s situation. All I’m doing is visiting a friend. That sounds like a safe place, and then things turned violent in a fraction of a second.

Elizabeth- Right. If you knew it would get crazy, you wouldn’t go. In fact, everyone would leave. You’re helping a student with their math and then this man attacked you and you had to defend yourself and others.

Rob- This was a dangerous situation.

Elizabeth- It is a really hard problem. You’re getting hit in the face. You have an infant in your arms so you can’t put up your arms and defend yourself. You have to turn your body so your body is between you and your attacker. You have to pull up your shirt, grab your gun, point it at your attacker, and press the trigger. Try doing that with one one handed while you’re holding a child.

Rob- Great. Now we’re one of the few podcasts that give homework to our listeners.  But you’re right. I need to try that myself and see if I can do it and how long it takes me.

Elizabeth- me too.

Rob- What else do you notice.
Elizabeth- Our defender asked people to call the police. He stayed on the scene to give his story. If you’re safe, then don’t run away. Bad guys run away and good guys stay and talk to the police. Unfortunately, our good guy dropped the gun rather than put it back into his holster. I wish he’d listened to these stories so he would have known what to do.

Rob- Putting your gun back into the holster isn’t easy when your that excited.

Elizabeth- Again, that takes practice. I know that I would be really emotional if I just defended my life and shot someone. Now I’ve got a baby on the ground and a gun in my hand. If I didn’t have a plan to safely re-holster my gun, if I hadn’t practiced that motion time after time, then it is easy to imagine being overwhelmed in the moment. That is why it is so important to practice holstering your gun.  I teach my students to draw from their holsters efficiently and reholster reluctantly. This is where muscle memory comes into play.

Rob- So we have been practicing all along. Good for us.

Elizabeth- You’re not done yet. You can’t influence the witnesses, but you can ask them if they are hurt. Ask them to stay put so the EMTs can look at them, and then ask them to stay so they can tell the police what they saw. They are part of your defense that you did the right thing, and you want the police to talk to them and establish their statements as part of your record.

Rob- You didn’t commit a crime, but you’re already putting elements in place that will show you’re the good guy in a court of law. Do you talk to your students about that too?

Elizabeth- I tell everyone about that..even our listeners.   Our third story happened last week near Detroit, Michigan.

Rob- Fist this message from my friends at Armed Lutheran Radio.

Give a listen at http://www.armedlutheran.us/

Rob- Third story- Are you armed when you open up your store first thing in the morning?

You work at a pawn shop. The store isn’t open yet, but you’re already getting ready for the day. There is equipment to repair. You’ll put construction tools out in front as workmen rent them for the day.  Before you get that done, there is a loud crash from the front of your store. You look into the front room to see a truck drive out of your store. He smashed a hole where your front door used to be. Now two men run inside and run to the gun counter. You shoot them. They run back outside, jump into their truck, and drive away.

You call the police and show them the surveillance videos.

Elizabeth- This is harder than it looks.

Rob- Why is that?

Elizabeth- If this break in were at my home then I’d be in my bedroom. The door is already locked. I’d grab my gun, point it at the door, and call the police.

I’d do the same thing if this were a clothing shop before it opened. Let them steal the money and the sox.

But this store had guns, and the thieves wanted the guns to commit more crimes. That is why gun-store employees go armed. They will kill you if you try to rob them.

Some states forbid you from protecting property. Some states allow you to defend yourself from any intruder. Michigan is a stand your ground state. The employee had no duty to run. That means that people who break into your home, your office or your store are assumed to be there to hurt you. You don’t have to get hit before you can defend yourself given that they have already smashed down the wall of your building.

That is the law. In general, don’t use your gun unless human life is at immediate risk.

Rob- That is a lot to think about.  In fact, it is too much for me to think about if it was happening to me. I’d have to plan what to do ahead of time.

Elizabeth- I talk to store owners. I train them and train with them. Safety is part of their business plan. They have their rules for them and their employees. Don’t go to war over the sox and snickers bars, but if employees are at risk of immediate serious harm, then they and you may and should use lethal force do protect human life. Think about it now.

Know your target and what is beyond..

Rob- How do your students learn about that?

Elizabeth- We talk about it a little, but there are excellent books and seminars on exactly that subject. (Which ones have you been to? NRA? Branka? McYoung? Kincaid?)

Rob-What else should we do in this situation.

Elizabeth- Don’t chase the bad guys. Make sure you’re safe. Once you’re sure you’re out of danger, then holster your gun and take a breath. Also, tell yourself a joke. Call the police. Call your lawyer. Wait for the police and give them a brief statement.

Rob- Even the simplest story is complex. Let’s stop here and go on to our fourth story.

Elizabeth- Forth story? We usually do three stories.

Rob- Our listeners left messages on the podcast facebook page. About 70 percent of the comments are in favor of a longer episode. Thank you, Leroy. If you like more stories, then let us know. If you want a shorter podcast, then tell us.

Elizabeth- Our fourth story took place in Winterhaven, Florida.

Rob- Fourth story- Are you armed as you drive for a ride-sharing company?

It is late at night. You’re driving for a ride sharing company. You get a call to drive someone home from a local bar. You’ve been there before. You identify yourself as you drive up. The lady matches her picture on the Uber account. She gets in and you start to drive her home. You’re on the highway when a pickup truck tries to run you off the road. You pull over to let him pass.

A truck driver stops and gets out of his truck. He runs toward your car and has something in his hands. The truck driver shouts, “You know I’ve got a pistol. You want me to f’ing shoot you!”

You own a gun. You have your concealed carry permit. You’re armed and carrying concealed right now. You draw your firearm and shoot your attacker as he reaches the door of your car.

You call 911 and provide emergency medical aid to your attacker.

Police said the driver thought you drove away from the bar with his girlfriend. You had never seen this passenger before this ride, and the truck driver’s girlfriend was back at the bar.

The police believe the truck driver may have been intoxicated and are waiting for medical reports on drugs and alcohol from the state medical examiner.

Elizabeth- This is a good story. I’m glad the driver had the means to protect himself and his passenger.

Rob- What do you see?

Elizabeth- Most of the attackers in assault cases are intoxicated on either drugs or alcohol. That is true for both robberies and fights at the local bar.

Rob- So you’re saying that the attacker’s story doesn’t have to make sense.

Elizabeth- Sometimes the crazy person is out to get you for no reason. That means you can’t always talk your way out of a problem. Yes, you should deescalate a situation if you can, but sometimes you can’t.

Rob- What do you tell your students to do?

Elizabeth- Be the innocent good guy. You can defend yourself because you didn’t do anything wrong. You lose that legal presumption of innocence if you threaten someone in a bar. You lose that innocence if you try to run someone off the road in a road-rage incident. If you do, then you lose the right of self-defense.

Rob- There is a lot to learn as you carry a gun for self-defense.

Elizabeth- But you can learn it. Not in one day, but you didn’t learn to drive in one day. It took a lot of practice before you could drive anywhere, day or night. Like learning to drive, there might be situations where you wouldn’t carry your gun yet because you feel you don’t have enough experience. That voice of concern you hear might be your good judgement trying to give you a message. Keep learning.

Rob- Is there more?

Elizabeth- Rob- That is enough for now. We’ll be back after this message from Buckeye Firearms Foundation

Please support Buckeye Firearms Foundation at https://www.buckeyefirearmsfoundation.org/

Exit-  Rob- That wraps up this episode. Elizabeth Hautman, thank you for helping us again. Where can we learn more about you?

Elizabeth- Elizabeth- I instruct in Colorado Springs.  I teach small classes at my private range in Black Forest.  Students can contact me at Colorado Boots Firearms Instruction.

Rob- Let us know what you think. Do you like the longer podcast with four stories? Do you want more personal news from our instructors? Leave us a message on the podcast facebook page.  We have an inbox there if you don’t want to leave your message in public.

Elizabeth-  We share this podcast with you for free.  All we ask is that you share the podcast with a friend and give us a rating on I-Tunes and Stitcher.  We’re also available on Google Play Music and Spotify.

Rob- I’m Rob Morse.  We’ll be back next week with more Self-Defense Gun Stories.

Episode 113 with Elizabeth Hautman

Can you protect innocent victims at home, at work, and on the street? Firearms instructor Elizabeth Hautman brings us three news stories of armed civilians who protected themselves.. and those they love. (18 minute audio podcast)

Rob- Introduction- Welcome to episode 113 of Self-Defense Gun Stories.  This podcast is for people who might want a gun for self-defense, and for those who already have one.  I’m your host, Rob Morse. We have firearms instructor Elizabeth Hautman with us as co-host.

Hi, Elizabeth.  How have you been?

Elizabeth- Hi, Rob.  I’ve been running a couple classes a week.

Rob-Please introduce our podcast to our new listeners.

Elizabeth- We study three recent examples of armed defense to see what we can learn.  These gun owners survived a life threatening situation because they were armed. What would you do in their place?

Our first story took place last week near Atlanta, Georgia.  Here’s what happened.

Rob- First story-  Are you armed as you buy groceries?  

You’re shopping with your wife after work. Lots of people are picking up supplies for the Father’s Day weekend. Three men approach you as you walk to your car. They are armed. You’re being robbed. You carry concealed. You and your wife run behind your car. You present your firearm and shoot all three robbers. They shoot back, at least for a while. Soon, one of the robbers runs away. One robber drops to the pavement. The third crawls back inside the store.

You and your wife are shaken, but not shot. Your car isn’t so lucky. You call the police.

The police pick up the two robbers and take them to local hospitals. That is where they arrest the third robber who drove away.

Elizabeth- I notice that our defender was alert. His head was probably out of his phone. He noticed that three men with guns walking up behind him was unusual and he acted on that clue. That is what let him with against three attackers.

Rob- Was this a robbery or a carjacking?

Elizabeth- Maybe. We don’t know if the robbers told him what they wanted, or if he noticed them as they approached. It sounds like the first thing the good guys did is move, and that changed everything.

Rob- What do you mean?

Elizabeth- Most couples would stand there frozen. They would wonder who is going to act first. This couple got behind their car. That kept the bad guys from grabbing them. It limited how many of the robbers could approach them at one time. It also absorbed some of the bullets in the gunfight that followed.

Rob- I see that.

Elizabeth- Moving changed the entire dynamic of the event.

The robbers had a plan. The victims would have their eyes down in their phones or be busy loading their groceries. The robbers would quickly confront them and take their money and keys. The victims would never have time to form a plan and act on it.

Instead, the victims moved. Now it was the robbers who had to react to an armed defender. The defenders had cover and the robbers were out in the open in the lane of traffic. The fact that the wife knew to move made this defense possible. If possible, they could move around opposite ends of the car so that the robbers wouldn’t know who to chase, but the important thing to do is to move and do something.

Rob- I thought you were going to say the armed defender shot well.

Elizabeth- He might have, but he made the shooting part much more effective because he was behind his car rather than out in the open. It is more important to avoid getting shot than to be a good shot. These defenders did both.

Rob- Anything else you notice?

Elizabeth- Most armed robberies have multiple attackers, so this isn’t that unusual. I wish both defenders were armed and trained. That would have made their attackers run away sooner and made this husband and wife even safer.

Our second story happened last week east of Orlando in Seminole County, Florida.

Rob- Second Story-  Are you armed at home in the afternoon?   

You are at home with your mom when you hear someone break into your home. You both run upstairs and hide in your bedroom. You grab your gun and retreat into a corner. A stranger opens your bedroom door and you shoot him. He runs. Now you call police. You and your mom are frightened but unharmed.

The police arrest the wounded robber at a nearby gas station. They also arrest two of his accomplices. Both are being charged with murder after their partner died at the hospital.

Elizabeth- See, three attackers again. I’m glad the door was locked so the robbers had to break in. That gives you time to act before the robbers are on top of you.

Rob- Good point. The defenders knew how to use the time they had.

Elizabeth- The defender was a young woman who had some firearms training. It isn’t clear if she pulled her mom into her room where she had her gun, or if the young woman was armed at home and went to her mom’s room to defend them both. Either plan would work.

Rob- She made the robbers come to her.

Elizabeth- She thought about this before it happened. She made the bad guys step around the corner and open her bedroom door. That means she got a turn to defend herself before the robbers got a chance to attack either her or her mom. A good plan means you have an opportunity to act and the bad guys have to react rather than hurt you.  

Rob- What else did you notice.

Elizabeth- I want my students to take care of first things first. Get your defensive tools, a gun and a phone. Gather your loved ones and go someplace safe. Then, get help on the way. Maybe mom was calling the police once they were safely in their bedroom. That isn’t the sort of thing that reporters think to ask. Also, the daughter didn’t chase the robbers. She let the police do that. Good for her.

Our third story happened last week in McComb, Mississippi.

Rob- First this message.

Please support Coloradans for Civil Liberties

Rob- Third story- Are you armed at work?

You work in a convenience store. It is after dark. You hear some noise from the backroom and turn around. The other night clerk is a young woman. She is being pushed back into the store by a man holding a gun to her head. The robber pushes her into the store and waves his gun at both of you.

You’re armed. You wait for a moment and then draw your own handgun. You shoot the robber. He shoots back and you shoot again. Now he runs out the front of the store. You lock the front door and call police. Neither of you are hurt, but you’re both very upset.

The robber looks like the same man who robbed your gas station last week. This time you were armed. The police find the dead robber across the street. They examine the surveillance video, just as they did last week. There are no charges against you.

Elizabeth- Store clerks carry out the trash late at night when there are not many customers around. Criminals wait in the dark near the dumpster so they can sneak in the back entrance. Both clerks needed to be armed..and maybe to have bright lights they could turn on at the back of the store when they went outside.

Rob- I carry the trash out in the dark at least once a week before pick-up day.

Elizabeth- Lots of us do, and it is predictable. Go armed when you go outside at night. The guys with the best plan win, so better yet, carry the trash out while it is still light outside.

Rob- What else did you notice.

Elizabeth- One of the defenders was armed. That is an improvement from last week when they were both disarmed. I hope the defender had the gun on him rather than having it behind the counter. The clerk could have been working on the displays in the middle of the store when the robber came in using the other clerk as a hostage. You don’t have a gun if it is out of reach.

Rob- A lot of gun owners pretend they have a gun for defense, but the gun is out of reach. Do you talk about that with your students?

Elizabeth- That is one of the first things we talk about. Most of them get it.

Both of the store employees did the right thing when they waited their turn to defend themselves. We don’t know how the female clerk was able to move away from the robber. It is important to think about that ahead of time.

I want my students to practice enough so they know how much time and distance they need to use their firearm effectively. That way they can recognize it when the robber gives them the time they need.

Rob- It sounds like the clerk shot once and then stopped. That is when the robber shot back.

Elizabeth- I noticed that. We want to avoid a gunfight where both sides shoot their guns. Practice so that your first shots hit the target. That give you an advantage because you are not shot and your attacker is. Keep shooting until the attacker stops threatening you.

Rob- Anything else?

Exit-  Rob- That wraps up this episode. Elizabeth, thank you for helping us today.  Where can we learn more about you?

Elizabeth- I instruct in Colorado Springs.  I teach small classes at my private range in Black Forest.  Students can contact me at Colorado Boots Firearms Instruction.

Rob- Some of you have shared the articles we post on the podcast facebook page.  You can also leave us a message and share your thoughts, either in public or in private.

Elizabeth-   If you liked this show, then you’ll like the other podcasts on the Self-defense radio network. We share this podcast with you for free.  Please share it with a friend and give us a rating on I-Tunes and Stitcher.  We’re also available on Google Play Music and Spotify.

Rob- I’m Rob Morse.  We’ll be back next week with more Self-Defense Gun Stories.

Please support Doctors for responsible gun ownership, DRGO.us

 

~_~_

 

Episode 105 with Elizabeth Hautman

Can you protect yourself at home, at work, and as you drive? Firearms instructor Elizabeth Hautman brings us three news stories of armed civilians who protected themselves.. and those they love. (18 minute audio podcast)

Rob- Introduction- Welcome to episode 105 of Self-Defense Gun Stories.  This podcast is for people who might want a firearm for self-defense, and for those who already have one.  I’m your host, Rob Morse. We have firearms instructor Elizabeth Hautman with us as co-host.

Hi, Elizabeth.  How have you been?

Elizabeth- Hi, Rob.  I’ve been busy setting up my spring schedule.  Now is the time to take advantage of mild temps and quiet weekends before summer kicks in.

Rob- Please introduce our podcast to our new listeners.

Elizabeth- Each week we study three new examples of armed defense to see what we can learn. What should we do if we were in their situation? Our first story took place last week in Hesperia, California.  Here is what happened.

Rob- First story-  Is your firearm available to you late in the evening?  

You’re at home late in the evening. You’re in bed when you hear a really loud crash from the front of your home. You grab your gun and go to investigate. A stranger is standing in the front room and your front window is gone. You yell for him to leave, and then shoot him when he doesn’t. Now the intruder leaves. You retreat to your bedroom and call police.

EMTs take the intruder to the hospital. The police recognize the intruder. Your intruder was arrested for a parole violation two months ago and was let out of jail four days ago.

The news media asks you to comment, and you don’t. Police Sgt. Marc Bracco said, “We’re glad when any homeowner protects themselves, that’s what they need to do in these situations. That’s why you’re allowed to carry a firearm in your residence.”

Elizabeth, how do you store your guns at night?  

Elizabeth- Well Rob, there are two answers to that and it really depends upon whether the kids are home or not.  I always lock up my firearms when the kids are home. No question about it. Even though they are responsible, older teens, with firearms experience, we all know teens can be unpredictable and moody.  Also, i’m happy to welcome their friends into the house. No telling what their gun education is. So kids in the house, guns locked up, kids at dad’s gun in by my bed. We always have to make compromises when it comes to firearms access.  I know some who sleep with a firearm under their pillow. I don’t understand that. My gun would be on the floor with the extra blanket and pillows and no use to me anyway. I trust my training to access my firearm efficiently when the time comes.

Secondly,  I am not searching through my home looking for the intruder.  What if I hear one guy and there are three, what if I am outgunned, and besides, there is nothing beyond my room worth getting hurt over.

Rob- When would your students learn to shoot in low light?

Elizabeth- Indoor range, simulators are great for that type of practice.  We are fortunate to have that type of trainer in my town.

Rob- Do you talk about calling the police and what to say when they arrive?

Elizabeth- Absolutely….

Elizabeth- Our second story happened last week in Memphis, Tennessee.

Rob- Second Story-  Are you armed as you drive your car?

You’re driving for Uber Eats to pick up a few dollars. It is a few minutes after midnight on a weekday night. Your wife is riding along as you drive. You pull into  IHOP and pick up the order. You hand her the order and sit in the driver’s seat when three young men approach your car. One of them puts a gun to the driver’s side window and tells you to get out of the car and hand him your keys and your money.

Your wife is in the car. You grab your handgun that is sitting in the center console. You shoot the attacker closest to your driver’s window. Some of the other robbers are shooting at your car. You open the door and shoot back at them.

They run. You and  your wife go inside and call the police. Two of the robbers were arrested at the hospital. The police said they may be connected to another robbery earlier that night.

Elizabeth, this is pretty advanced self-defense. You have to defend yourself from multiple attackers in the dark, and you have someone else to protect so you can’t run.

Rob- Where would we learn to carry in a car?

Elizabeth-   Again, one step at a time.  Really we don’t know what we don’t know.  I have worked with the unconscious incompetent.  The student doesn’t have an inkling what they don’t know.   Then they take a class and begin to see the total sum of completeness of what there is to know and they become the consciously incompetent.  So the student becomes aware of their shortcomings and then hopefully becomes motivated to learn more. Hopefully to progress to unconsciously competent where the right thing to do becomes automatic.  That comes from training, training and more training. Incorporating muscle memory into the drill and just knowing what to do. I believe we drive that way. I know I don’t have to tell myself to turn on the turn signal, it is an automatic maneuver for my turn.  I unconsciously know to do that before I initiate a turn. Firearms training is the same way. But only after much practice and training and coaching.

Rob- Suppose you have your carry permit. How could you safely practice drawing a firearm while you’re seated?  

Elizabeth- This is where tools like blue guns come into play.  I use them quite frequently in my class. They are simply plastic guns, that fit in my holster and have the look and feel of my real firearm, however, they are bright blue, and plastic.  

Elizabeth- Our third story happened last week in Roanoke, Virginia.

Please join and support the Second Amendment Foundation at SAF.org

Rob- Third story- Are you armed when you’re walking down the street?

You’re working on equipment in a small business. It is late morning and you hear people scream outside. You look out the window and see a dog attack a young mother who is pushing a baby carriage. You walk to your car and grab your gun. An older man with a cane is hitting the dog and trying to protect the mother and child. The dog bites the older man. You run closer. Someone shoots the dog in the face with pepper spray. Someone grabs his collar and tries to choke the dog. Someone hits the dog with a hammer. Finally the dog lets go and the victims scatter. You shoot the dog. You have to shoot the dog a second time to stop him.

An animal control officer comes to take the dog away. He’d seen this dog before after the dog bit someone.

Elizabeth- He had a gun. I wish it was on him rather than in his truck.

Rob- This isn’t easy. We don’t usually think of animals as a target.

Elizabeth-  I carry pepper spray because of animals.  Very often I believe that I would rather spray a dog because they are just doing what comes naturally to them, in this case, however, the pepper spray didn’t work.  There may be a few reasons for that. Not all pepper spray is created equally. I recommend one with tested high levels of capsaicinoids. Really hot. Also practice with them.  They sell practice sprays that are just water so you can check your aim and try it first.

Rob- This was on a city street in the middle of the day.

Elizabeth- Remember the four safety rules? One of them is to know your target and what lies around it. Could anyone move between you and the dog as you shoot. You’re probably shooting down at the dog. Where will your bullets go if they bounce off the street?

Exit-  Rob- That wraps up this episode. Elizabeth, thank you for helping us today.  Where can we learn more about you?

Elizabeth- I instruct in Colorado Springs.  I teach small classes at my private range in Black Forest.  Students can contact me at Colorado Boots Firearms Instruction.

Rob- You can share your thoughts with us by leaving a message on the podcast facebook page.  

Elizabeth-  We share this podcast with you for free.  Please share it with a friend and give us a rating on I-Tunes and Stitcher.  We’re also available on Google Play Music.

Rob- I’m Rob Morse.  We’ll be back next week with more Self-Defense Gun Stories.

Please support Buckeye Firearms Foundation at https://www.buckeyefirearmsfoundation.org/

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Episode 98 with Elizabeth Hautman

Can you protect yourself at home and away? Learn how. Elizabeth Hautman brings us three news stories of armed civilians who protected themselves and those they love. (15 minute audio podcast)

Rob- Introduction- Welcome to episode 98 of Self-Defense Gun Stories.  This podcast is for people who might want a firearm, and for those who have one and want to learn more about how to use it.  I’m your host, Rob Morse.  We have firearms instructor Elizabeth Hautman as co-host this week.

Hi, Elizabeth.  How have you been?

Elizabeth- Hi, Rob.  I’ve been well, a mild winter has been great for students as we shoot in our beautiful winter weather. ????

Rob- Elizabeth, please introduce our podcast.

Elizabeth- Each week we study three recent examples of armed defense. Our first story took place last week in Blakely, Georgia. Here is what happened.

Rob- First story-  Are you armed as you arrive home?

It is late on a Saturday evening. You arrive home with your 12 year old daughter. Your daughter walks into her room and you head into your room and then the kitchen. The report isn’t clear who noticed it first, but you walk into your daughters room and notice something wrong with her bedroom window. A strange man comes out of your daughter’s closet. You yell at him and he attacks you. You fight with him..with the spoon you have in your hand. You and your daughter retreat. You get your gun and shoot your attacker. He stumbles away. Some news reports say you used a shotgun. Others say you could have used a handgun.

Now you and your daughter retreat to your bedroom and lock the door.  You call 911. The police find your attacker outside and unresponsive.

Your attacker was a convicted sex offender. His car was located a few blocks away behind a motel.

Elizabeth- Slow start. Good finish. POGO.

Elizabeth- Our second story happened last week in Dekalb County, Georgia.

Rob- Second Story-  Are you armed as you go shopping?

You want to buy a bottle of liquor. You drive to the store and start comparing brands. The store owner and another employee are getting ready to close. You make your selection and move towards the cash register. Three men enter the store and announce a robbery. They point guns at the clerk and the store owner. You’re armed. One of the robbers shoots the store owner. You draw your firearms and shoot the robber in the back. The robber stops attacking the store owner. You shoot at the next robber closest to you. The third robber is out the door before you can shoot at him.

Police arrive and take you in for questioning. The store owner and two of the robbers are taken to the hospital.

Elizabeth- All your examples last week were about armed citizens defending others. Good for them, and good for this man as well. It is clear that self-defense was justified because the robber shot the store owner.

Rob- Hospital or morgue.

Elizabeth- He was armed. He saw a lethal threat. He saved a life.

Rob- Are you justified in shooting all three robbers even though only one of them shot the store owner?

Elizabeth- Our third story happened last week in Ada, Oklahoma.

Learn more at SAF Training Division.

Rob- Third story- Are you armed when you’re at home?

You’re asleep in your bed. It is three AM when you hear something unexpected from inside your home. It is the sound of breaking glass. You roll out of bed and grab your gun from your nightstand. You walk into your house. The intruder is using a flashlight to look around your home. You yell at him when you hear him shoot at you several times.  You return fire and shoot your attacker. He runs. You are very shaken, but uninjured.

The police find your attacker as he was driving away with his accomplice. The two men are connected to 10 other burglaries. Your attacker has several felony charges against him including domestic abuse. Your attacker’s sons are in prison for murder or awaiting trial for murder.

Elizabeth- There are bad guys out there.

Elizabeth- This homeowner put his life at risk by investigating a breakin. Let the police do that. Lock your door. Call the police. You want to have a broken window and a smashed in door so the police know you were defending yourself.

Elizabeth- Insurance?

Exit-  Rob- That wraps up this episode. Elizabeth, thank you for helping us today.  Where can we learn more about you?

Elizabeth- I instruct in Colorado Springs.  I teach small classes at my private range in Black Forest.  Students can contact me at Colorado Boots Firearms Instruction.

Rob- You can share your thoughts with us by leaving a message on the podcast facebook page.  

Elizabeth-   If you liked this show, then you’ll like the other podcasts on the Self-defense radio network.  

We share this podcast with you for free.  Please share it with a friend and give us a rating on I-Tunes and Stitcher.  We’re also available on Google Play Music.

Rob- I’m Rob Morse.  We’ll be back next week with more Self-Defense Gun Stories.

Give a listen at http://www.armedlutheran.us/

Episode 92 with Elizabeth Hautman

Instructor Elizabeth Hautman joins us this week with three new self-defense stories. Were these gun owners lucky, or were they armed with tools and training? How would you react in their situation? (18 minutes)

Rob- Introduction- Welcome to episode 92 of Self-Defense Gun Stories.  This podcast is for people who might want a firearm.. and for those who already have one.  I’m your host, Rob Morse, and firearms instructor Elizabeth Hautman is our co-host this week.

Hi, Elizabeth. I hope you had a great vacation, a happy Christmas, and a happy new year.

Elizabeth- Hi, Rob.  I’ve been enjoying time off with my family.  This is the best time of the year.  I feel like I can reset  and hit the ground running for 2018.

Rob- Elizabeth, please introduce our podcast to our new listeners.

Elizabeth- Each week we discuss three recent examples of armed defense. Our first story took place last week near Wilmington, North Carolina. Here is what happened.

Rob- First story-  Do you have a firearm nearby when you sleep at night?  

You live in a mobile home by yourself. You hear a crashing sound early in the morning. At least you thought you heard it. It was loud enough and it shook the whole building. Did you imagine it? Now you hear voices outside. Someone has broken into your home. You grab your firearm and move from your bedroom toward the sound. You see two strangers in your home. You shout for them to get out. One of them shoots at you. You shoot back. Both men run. You back up to your bedroom and call police.

The police tell you that your attacker was a three time felon who had a gun.

Elizabeth- Good that he locked his doors. An alarm would be even better.  I really believe that at a crazy hour in the morning, it is difficult to recognize a threat.  Our homeowner, got over his/her disbelief and accessed their firearm.

 Good that he had a gun, knew where it was, and what condition it was in, ready to fire.

Elizabeth- This is why the castle doctrine is so important. These robbers were armed. You don’t have to announce yourself to a team of armed robbers as you’re standing there in your underwear. That is bad planning. I tell my students to get their gun, call the police, and then wait in their bedroom so you force the robbers to come to you!

Rob- It seems like a pretty vulnerable position if you walk out of your bedroom and yell at a bunch of armed robbers while you’re standing in the middle of your kitchen in your underwear.

Elizabeth- A pre thought out plan may have kept the homeowner safer when bullets were flying.  In my home, there is nothing besides me and my family worth bleeding over.  If someone wants the 10 year old television, I am not going to risk getting in their way.  So my plan is to stay between bad guys and the kids, no more.  I set up a defensive position and wait.  If I had not planned or thought about this in advance, it would be easy to chase people through my house, possibly exposing my family to danger.

 

Rob- If you stay in your bedroom, are you justified in shooting them as they come through your bedroom door?

Elizabeth- You forced them to come through your doorway. You don’t have to announce where you are.  That is up to you.  If bad guys are entering my bedroom, through that fatal funnel, the doorway, I will be ready.

Our second story happened last week near Houston, Texas.

Rob- Second Story-  Are you armed at home when you’re up late at night?

You are up late at night. You’ve put your three month old daughter to bed. Your husband is out of town, and you can’t sleep. It is just after midnight when you hear your alarm sound. You’re suddenly wide awake and you hear the back door open. You grab your gun and move toward the sound. You see a stranger standing in your kitchen. You raise your firearm and yell for him to leave. Your dog runs toward him barking. The man leaves the way he came.

Now you lock the doors and call police. She says she’d practiced getting her gun before.

Elizabeth- Lock the back door.

Rob- The story could have been very different if she didn’t hear the alarm. It could have been much better if the robber

Elizabeth- Have your gun on you. What if they broke through the front door and your daughter and your gun were on the other side of the house?  Again, I would get between my daughter and the intruder.  I won’t chase a bad guy, I will let the intruder come to me.

Rob- It sounds like she needed to go get her gun.

Elizabeth- A dog is a good alarm, but a real electronic alarm doesn’t go off each time the mailman goes by.

Our third story happened last week in Chicago, Illinois.

Rob- Third story- Are you armed at work?  

Your family owns a small corner grocery. You also own a small cell phone store a few doors down the street. You have video cameras in both stores. You notice the motion and look up to see an armed robber walk into your brother’s store. He is pointing a gun at your brother an another employee. You run out the door and draw your gun. You brace yourself behind a concrete post and yell for the thief to drop his gun. He turns and shoots at you. You shoot back. You hit the thief in the shoulder and he drops his gun. You stand over him with your gun drawn while your brother calls the police.

You have your concealed carry permit. The police look at the videos. The teenage robber was out on parole. It was illegal for him to have a gun, and illegal for the robber to carry concealed firearm in public.

Elizabeth- I notice that criminals don’t obey gun laws.  As is often the case.

Rob- What else should we learn from this story?

Elizabeth- The store owner was alerted by a video camera.  That is great.  It was also great that the store owner had his gun on him because he didn’t have time to get it from a safe or a locked drawer.  

Rob- What would you tell your students to do in this situation?

Elizabeth- Bad tactics in getting into a gun fight because you talked when you should have been shooting. Good tactics in hiding behind a concrete pillar.  Also marksmanship played a role in this scenario as well.  

Rob- When are we justified in using lethal force, and was it justified? The robber hadn’t shot anyone yet.

Elizabeth- There is a time to talk, and a time to shoot. It is a time to shoot when your brother and an innocent employee are facing a lethal threat. Keep shooting until the threat goes away.

Rob- What do you say to the police?

Say your family was attacked. The robber shot at you. You defended them. Let the video do the talking if you can. Contact your lawyer and say you’ll answer all their questions and help with the investigation after you’ve talked with your lawyer. You want to point out obvious evidence, but that is a slippery slope.  

Rob- Why is that a problem.

What you said may not be exactly what happened. The patrolman’s written record may not match exactly what you told him. Wait until you speak with your lawyer. Your lawyer will ask to see the tapes before he makes a statement to the police.

Exit-  Rob- That wraps up this episode. Elizabeth, thank you for helping us today.  Where can our listeners learn more about you?

Elizabeth- I instruct in Colorado Springs.  I teach small classes at my private range in Black Forest.  Students can contact me at Colorado Boots Firearms Instruction.

Rob- Our listeners can share their thoughts with us by leaving a message on the podcast facebook page.  

Elizabeth-   We share this podcast with you for free.  Please share it with a friend and give us a rating on I-Tunes and Stitcher.  We’re also available on Google Play Music and spotify.

Rob- I’m Rob Morse.  We’ll be back next week with more Self-Defense Gun Stories.

DRGO

 

Episode 86 with Elizabeth Hautman

Welcome to episode 86. Instructor Elizabeth Hautman joins us this week with three new self-defense stories. Were these gun owners lucky, or were they armed with tools and training? How would you react in their situation? (17 minutes)

Rob- Introduction- Welcome to episode 86 of Self-Defense Gun Stories. This podcast is for people who might want a firearm..and for those who already have one. I’m your host, Rob Morse, and firearms instructor Elizabeth Hautman joins us as to co-host this week..

Hi, Elizabeth.  How have you been?

Elizabeth- Hi, Rob.  I had five wonderful students. They knew how to shoot, but were brand new to armed self-defense.

Rob- Elizabeth, please introduce our show.

Elizabeth- We discuss three recent examples of armed civilian defense to see what we can learn. Leave us a message on our facebook page with your questions or comments.

Elizabeth- Our first story took place last week in Saint Paul, Minnesota.

Rob, set the scene for us.

Rob- First story-  Are you armed when you’re walking downtown at night?

You’re walking back to your car. It is late at night. A man comes up to you and says, “Give me your wallet.” You almost don’t believe it. You’re about to ask him to say it again when you notice the gun in his hand. You’re being robbed. You start to back up, and the robber raises his gun. You put your wallet in your left hand. Then you reach for your handgun with your right hand. You have a concealed carry permit, and your armed. You shoot your attacker. He’s startled, and you take that moment to run away.

Then you call police.

Elizabeth- Unexpected things happen. I’ve been out late at night when I didn’t expect to be. Some of my students want a gun for “when I need it”. This man didn’t know he’d need it until he already needed it. Unless you plan to live in your gunsafe, then carry so you’ll have your gun. Now that I’m done with my first sermon.. The first thing our gun owner did was carry a gun when he didn’t expect to need it.

Rob- He also presented a gun quickly, but cautiously. Did you notice that?

Elizabeth- He waited his turn, and then he acted with sufficient violence to stop the threat.

Rob- What are the milestones that a new student goes through so they can present a gun quickly?

Elizabeth- We take small simple steps. firearm safety, including how to store your guns. How to shoot. How to carry.  How to draw. How to move with a gun. And then they have to practice those things.

Rob- That sounds like a lot to learn, but you teach it every week?

 

Our second story happened last week in Los Angeles, California.

Rob- Second Story-  Are you armed at home?

You’re in your room at your family’s home. It is 2am, and you hear yelling from the front door. A large group of men have broken into your home. They have guns pointed at everyone. You are still in the back hallway and you hear the robbers beating and threatening your family. You go back to your room. You grab your gun and move toward the front of the house. You start shooting as you round the corner. The robbers run.

Police report that eight men broke into your home.  The took two small safes as they ran.

What did our defender do correctly.

Elizabeth- He had a gun to protect his family. This is in Los Angeles County, so you can’t get a carry permit, but you can still have a gun at home. This man did when he was attacked by a large robbery team. That five shot revolver you were thinking of might not be enough gun.

Rob- What else.

Elizabeth- He was determined to protect the people he loved. He moved forward into the fight.

Rob- What could he have done better?

Elizabeth- We can teach you how to use cover. That means you don’t have to run into the middle of the family room and start shooting where the bad guys can shoot back at you. You can shoot out of the darkness and never be seen by your attackers. That means you have to learn low-light shooting too.

Rob- You teach that?

Elizabeth- Sure do. Our third story happened last week in Chicago, Illinois.

Listen to Gun Freedom Radio at http://gunfreedomradio.com

 

Rob- Third story- Are you armed when you walk down the street?

It is early in the morning when you finally arrive home. You park your car on the street. You walk up to your front door when a young man steps up behind you and points a gun at you. He demands your wallet, your phone, and your keys. You have your Illinois concealed carry permit. You’re carrying. You drop the bag in your hands. You step to the side and then draw your own firearm. You shoot several times. Then you run.

The  police picked up your attacker not far from your front door. He was shot in the abdomen, and in both legs. You are shaken, but you’re not shot. The police say your attacker’s gun was only a pellet gun. They take your attacker to the hospital.

Elizabeth- What did I say about our first story? Have your gun when you need it.

Rob- Wow. There was no time to “get my gun”. I was reading that over three millions of us carry concealed every day. I was disappointed that it is wasn’t more, but you have to start somewhere.

Elizabeth- Wait your turn. Know how fast you are, and then defend yourself.

Rob- How do people practice to draw a loaded gun.

Elizabeth- Dry practice. (What’s that?)

Get your permit.  Carry your gun.

Exit-  Rob- That wraps up this episode. Elizabeth, thank you for helping me today.  Where can our listeners learn more about you?

Elizabeth- I instruct in Colorado Springs.  I teach small classes at my private range in Black Forest.  Students can contact me at Colorado Boots Firearms Instruction.

Rob- Our listeners can share their thoughts with us by leaving a message on the podcast facebook page.  

We share this podcast with you for free.  Please share it with a friend and give us a rating on I-Tunes and Stitcher.  We’re also available on Google Play Music.

Rob- I’m Rob Morse.  We’ll be back next week with more Self-Defense Gun Stories.

Learn more at SAF Training Division.

Episode 76 with Elizabeth Hautman

Welcome to episode 76. Instructor Elizabeth Hautman joins us this week with three new self-defense stories. Were these gun owners lucky, or were they armed with tools and knowledge? How would you react in their situation? (17 minutes)

Rob- Introduction- I’m Rob Morse and welcome to episode 76 of Self-Defense Gun Stories.  This podcast is for people who think they might want a firearm.. and those who already have one.  We’re joined this week by self-defense instructor Elizabeth Hautman.  Hi, Elizabeth.

Elizabeth- Hi, Rob.  Hi to our new listeners, and welcome back to our regular listeners. We report and analyze three examples of armed civilian defense.  We hope you use these reports as part of your exercise program.. to use your imagination today so you can defend the people you care about tomorrow.  Please leave us a message on our facebook page with your questions or comments.

Elizabeth- Our first story took place last week in Tuolumne, California.

Rob- First story-  Do you have a gun nearby when you’re at home late at night?

You and your children are at home late at night.  The kids are in bed.  Someone is banging on your front door.  You don’t know him so you don’t open the door, you yell for him to go away.  He keeps pounding.  You move your children upstairs.  You grab your handgun and call the police.

The intruder breaks the door down and enters your home.  You fire one shot, and the intruder runs away.  Police find him at the party that was going on next door.  The local hospital treats him for a gunshot wound.  His blood alcohol level was at three times the legal limit.

Elizabeth- Good job parent!  I tell each student again and again, Don’t open the door!  How many home invasion stories start with,” the assailant pushed their way into the home.”  It is easy to push through a doorway that is open just an inch.  This intruder had to break the door down.  By not opening the door, the homeowner had time to secure the children, access his or her firearm, call the police and wait.  

Rob-  Say that list again slowly.  What do we want to do in what order, and why.

Elizabeth- Retreat, gun, phone, once the person was banging on the door….

Rob- what can we do before the wolf is at the door.

Elizabeth- We can talk about the door.  In this situation, the homeowner didn’t know the person breaking in, that means that maybe they could see out on the porch.  With new, inexpensive  technology you can see and talk to someone on your porch without opening the door.   One way to make the door more secure is to install 3 inch screws in the strike plate around the deadbolt and doorknob in your front, back and garage door.  That inexpensive upgrade will buy you time to make your family safe.  

Also, this homeowner had a plan, and waited.  That may be a difficult thing to do, but the homeowner saw to her children’s safety, and took action.

Rob- What do we need to tell the police?

Elizabeth- Practice that call.  Make a 911 call sheet.

Elizabeth- Our second story happened last week in Little Rock, Arkansas.

Rob- Second Story-  Are you armed in the grocery store parking lot?

It is a few minutes after 5pm, so it is light outside.  You’re done with your grocery shopping and head back to your car.  You step between the parked cars to unlock your car door.  A man walks between the cars and grabs your purse.  The strap is over your shoulder, and you hang on tight.  You reach inside your purse and pull out your gun.  Your attacker immediately turns and runs away.  You don’t shoot.  It takes you a minute to put away your gun, get your phone out of your purse, and then call the police.

Elizabeth-  Situation awareness is key.  Not paranoid but aware.  So perhaps if the victim had been more aware of her surroundings she could have escaped being targeted at all.  Bad guys look for victims who are unaware of their surroundings, distracted, not paying attention.  And it is easy to get distracted – cell phones, children, schedules, traffic and the list goes on.  But by bing in the present and aware of what is going on at that moment, we all are a bit safer.  Criminals look for the distracted victim.

Rob- Let’s say my gun is on my hip.  Someone grabbed my holster.  That makes it really hard to draw my gun.  It is even harder to get your gun from your purse if someone grabbed your purse.

Elizabeth-Rob, you are right, it can take me 5 minutes to extract a pen from the bottom of my purse, a firearm, when I am scared or struggling is worse, and time is what you don’t have a lot of if you are being attacked.  I prefer on body carry, for two reasons;  one, I can access my firearm more efficiently from my hip and two, if the bad guy wants my purse, he can have it and the $8.79 in the wallet.  I don’t want him to take my firearm.  If I can get away, without using my firearm, and only lose a purse, I am lucky!

Lastly, my firearm is to protect my life, or the life of another innocent person who is in immediate danger.  Not to protect my “stuff.”  So if my stuff goes away – the purse, my wallet, watch, jewelry, no big deal.  I’m not happy about it, but if I can escape and not use my firearm, that is the BEST result.  

Rob- Does that surprise your students?

Elizabeth- Our third story happened last week in outside Saint Paul, Minnesota.

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Rob- Third story- Are you armed when you’re at work?  

You opened the cell phone store.  Now it is 11 am and you’re eager to take a lunch break.  Two men wait their turn.  As you finish with the customer in front of them, one of the men pulls out a gun and tells you to move to the back of the store.  You step back between the counters.  The two thieves follow you into the back room.  You draw your own handgun and shoot the armed robber nearest to you.  You shoot him several times until he drops his gun.  Then you point your gun at the other robber, but he has run away.

Now you call police..or try to.  It is hard to talk because you’re so excited.

The police said your attacker was a convicted felon with a long list of convictions.  How did your attacker get a gun anyway?

Elizabeth-  Just another example of ineffective gun laws.  I teach about the laws in Colorado, and my students, who follow the rules take careful notes and are law abiding citizens.  Criminals don’t do that!  They do not follow firearms laws, they do not get background checks, they do what they want regardless of the law.  

 

Elizabeth- And the clerk, is described as excited – exactly!  That is why I teach my students to practice and practice so your moves rely on muscle memory, not your thinking brain.

Rob- How do I get to have that presence of mind?

Elizabeth- If you have ever had to dial 911 when someone isn’t breathing, you may know what level of stress and emergency like that can bring on.  Using your firearm is just like that.   I keep my home address by my landline at home, so if anyone ever has to dial 911, they can READ the address, not just recite it from memory.  

Elizabeth-  The clerk had a series of routine actions.

Exit-  Rob- That wraps up this episode. Elizabeth, thank you for helping me today.  Where can our listeners learn more about you?

Elizabeth- I instruct in Colorado Springs.  I teach small classes at my private range in Black Forest.  Students can contact me at Colorado Boots Firearms Instruction.

Rob- Our listeners can share their thoughts with us by leaving a message on the podcast facebook page.  

Elizabeth-   If you liked this show, then you’ll like the other podcasts on the Self-defense radio network.  

We share this podcast with you for free.  Please share it with a friend and give us a rating on I-Tunes and Stitcher.  We’re also available on Google Play Music.

Rob- I’m Rob Morse.  We’ll be back next week with more Self-Defense Gun Stories.

Episode 67 with Elizabeth Hautman

Welcome to episode 67 of Self-Defense Gun Stories. Self-defense instructor Elizabeth Hautman joins us this week. We report and analyze examples of armed civilian defense. Were these gun owners lucky, or were they prepared? How would you do in their situation? (17 minutes )

Rob- Introduction- I’m Rob Morse and welcome to episode 67 of Self-Defense Gun Stories.  This podcast is for people who think they might want a firearm.. and those who already have one.  We’re joined this week by self-defense instructor Elizabeth Hautman.  Hello, again, Elizabeth.  I know you’ve been busy.

 

Elizabeth- Lots of teaching..and constitution camp.  Hi to our new listeners, and welcome back to our regular listeners. We report and analyze three examples of armed civilian defense.  We hope you use these reports to exercise your imagination today so you can defend the people you care about tomorrow.  Please leave us a message on our facebook page with your questions or comments.

Rob- One of our listeners sent us a message.  Clayton said, “I think you should consider doing a long episode, maybe 1 out of every 4 or so. You could be more casual and have more conversation with the guest instructor. As a listener, I would love that.”

Rob- Clayton, I’ll ask the instructors.  Some would like it, and some are busy already and I’m lucky to get each minute with them.

Elizabeth- Our first story took place last week in Jacksonville, Florida.

Rob- First story-  Are you armed at home early in the morning?

You’re asleep in your apartment.  Your first sign of trouble is a crash of breaking glass.  Someone is breaking through the window at the back of your apartment..at 6 in the morning.  You keep your gun nearby because you were worried about a break in.  You grab your gun.  You see a man standing in your living room.  He sees you and moves toward you.  You fire three times and the man backs up toward the window.  You back up toward your room.  You grab your phone and call police.

You know your attacker.  He is your ex-boyfriend.  Last year he beat you and strangled you until you passed out.  You bought a gun..and learned how to use it.  You also moved to a new address, but tonight he found you.

Elizabeth- This victim was at a far higher risk than most people.  She recognized that fact and acted, so good for her.  She moved to a new address.  She might have changed jobs.  She also got a gun and learned how to use it.  She had her gun available when she needed it.  That saved her life.

Rob-  I’ve heard that you’re more likely to be involved in a gunfight if you have a gun at home.

Elizabeth- That phrase is designed to scare little old ladies who live in safe situations in the suburbs so they won’t buy a gun.  It isn’t the gun that causes the problems; its us.  We’re not all the same.  Poor people in our inner cities are more likely to be victims than rich people in gated communities.  A victim of domestic violence faces higher risks.  Of course these people are more likely to be attacked.  They choose to have guns in their home because they need one to defend themselves.

Rob- What else did you notice in this story.

Elizabeth-  A reporter wouldn’t mention it, but the victim needs a flashlight.

Rob-  A flashlight?

Elizabeth- You need to see what is going on.  Was this a drunk neighbor that was confused and broke into your house..or was it a serial abuser?  You need to know.  You also have to know how to call the police, but we’ll talk about that in our next story.

Rob- How can we get a gun quickly, but still have it secured when we’re asleep?

Elizabeth- She needed the gun in a hurry.

Lock your doors. She could have had an alarm. Quick access safe. But most of all, she had a plan of action.

Rob- Are you ready to move on?

Elizabeth- Our second story happened last week in Spring, Texas.

Rob- Second Story-  Are you armed when you meet to sell a cell phone?   

You’re selling your phone on Craigslist.  It’s early in the evening when you agree to meet.  You pick a well lit public place to meet the buyer.  You arrive on time, and so does the buyer.  You both get out of your cars.  The buyer has a young man with him.  He asks to see the phone.  You reach for your pocket, and then the young man reaches for his pocket and pulls out a gun..that is soon pointed at you.  They demand your money and your phones.  You put them on the ground and back away.  Then they say they want anything you have in your car.  You walk around your car..and pull your gun from the center console.  You shoot the closest of the two robbers twice in the stomach.  The young thug with a gun runs.  You pick up your phones and call police.  They transport the wounded robber, and arrest the younger gunman as well.  You’re not hurt.

Elizabeth- On body carry

Rob- Is this a texas thing?  You can carry in your car without a permit.  Maybe he didn’t have his license.

Elizabeth-  Get your license.  Yes it is a pain, but do it.  This man could have been killed while his gun was 10 feet away.    The robbers let him go to his car and that saved his life.  He was lucky rather than smart.

Rob- It sounds like he moved to get his car between himself and the robbers.

Elizabeth- That was a good move.   He also acted decisively once he had his gun.  There is a time to talk and a time to use lethal force to defend your life.  Real life isn’t the movies.  Don’t talk when your life is at risk.  That is the time to stop the threat.

Rob- Do your students think that just having a gun will protect them?

Elizabeth- Some start that way..for a while.

Rob- you said you wanted to talk about the phone call.

Juliana- Yes. The victim also called police.  Before you do that, you don’t have to stand next to the victim while you’re holding your gun.  Get to a safe place.  Put your gun away.

Here is a hint about why on-body carry is such a good idea.  You not only have a gun with you, you have a place to put your gun away when you’re done.  Then you make the call so you can identify yourself as the victim.  Location, police and medical help, your name and description.  Practice that.

Rob- Do you have a training partner?

Elizabeth- Our third story happened last week in  Downey, California.

 

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Rob- Third story- Are you armed at your automobile audio shop in the evening?  

You’re working late at your car audio and alarm store.  Three men enter your shop.  Since people often leave their cars with you, that isn’t much of a surprise.  Two of the men are in their 30’s and one is a little younger.  You’re surprised when all of them draw handguns and say to hand over your money.  You walk toward the cash register, and grab your firearm.  News reports don’t say if your gun is behind the counter or on your body.

You shoot all three robbers..several times.  One of them manages to stumble away.  You retreat to the back of your shop and call police.

The escaping robber begs motorists for a ride to the hospital where he is arrested.  Police tell you the two other robbers died on your shop floor.

Elizabeth-  This man thought about the attack before it happened.  There were other robberies in the area.  He had a plan.  He knew he’d defend himself if he saw a lethal threat.  He did.

Rob- The victim was outnumbered.  How did he survive uninjured?

Elizabeth-  He waited until he saw an advantage and then he acted quickly and violently.  I have to call it violent because he went from looking like a willing victim to a violent defender in a fraction of a second.

Rob- That takes practice.

Elizabeth-  We’re practicing now.  He saw that his life was at risk.  He chose his moment and then he put his plan into place.  His plan was to shoot his attackers and survive.

Rob- It is a simple plan, but it takes some getting used to.

Elizabeth- It really does take some getting used to, but today we have time.  A new gun owner has to get there step by step.  They learn to safely handle a gun.  They learn to shoot accurately.  They learn to shoot quickly.  They learn to carry their gun.  Finally, they learn how to recognize a dangerous situation.  Each one of those is a manageable step.

Rob- So they don’t do it all in a single day in a single class?

Elizabeth- The victim also has to deal with southern California police.  He has to know what to say because every word can be used against him in court.

Rob- It doesn’t say if he had video security in his shop.

Elizabeth- I looked for that too.  That helps you win the second battle.

Rob- What is the second fight?

Elizabeth- You need to prove that you’re a good guy and acted responsibly.  If the evidence is clear enough then you won’t go to court.  Good guys want to be able to show what they did.

Rob- The news article said there were other robberies in the area.  I hope he had the video.

Exit- Rob- That wraps up this episode. Elizabeth, thank you for helping me today.  Where can our listeners learn more about you?

Elizabeth- I instruct in Colorado Springs.  I teach small classes at my private range in Black Forest.  Students can contact me at Colorado Boots Firearms Instruction.

Rob- Our listeners can share their thoughts with us by leaving a message on the podcast facebook page.  

Elizabeth-  If you liked this show, then you’ll like the other podcasts on the Self-defense radio network.  We create this podcast under a creative commons license, so please share it with a friend, and give us a rating on I-Tunes.

Rob- We’re now on itunes, Stitcher, and Google Play.

I’m Rob Morse.  We’ll be back next week with more Self-Defense Gun Stories.

 

Episode 60 with Elizabeth Hautman

Welcome to episode 60 of Self-Defense Gun Stories. Firearms instructor Elizabeth Hautman joins us this week. Together, we report and analyze examples of armed civilian defense. Were these gun owners lucky, or were they prepared? How would you do in their situation?

Introduction- Rob- I’m Rob Morse, and welcome to episode 60 of Self-Defense Gun Stories.  This podcast is for people who think they might want a gun for self-defense, and those who already have one.  We’re joined this week by self-defense instructor Elizabeth Hautman.

Hi, Elizabeth.  You’ve been busy.

Elizabeth- Hi, Rob.  

Appleseed.  Teaching new firearms students.

Hi to our new listeners, and welcome back to our regular listeners. We report and analyze three examples of armed civilian defense.  We hope you use these reports as part of your exercise program.. to exercise your imagination today so you can defend the people you care about tomorrow.  Please leave us a message on our facebook page with your questions or comments.

Elizabeth- Our first story took place last week near Palm Beach, Florida

Rob- First story-  Are you armed at home?  Your teenage son and his friends are watching TV and playing video games late at night.  They hear a knock on the door.  They open the front door to see who it is.  Two armed men push their way into your home.  One of the teenagers runs the the bathroom and slams the door behind him.  The robbers shoot through the bathroom door.

You hear the shouts, the slams and the gunfire.  You walk out of the master bedroom with your handgun drawn.  You fire at the armed intruders.  They run from the apartment.

One of your son’s friends was shot in the abdomen.  You call police and emergency medical services.  The medics take the teenager to the hospital.  While he is at the hospital, into the emergency room walks the intruder you shot.  Police arrest both intruders.

Elizabeth-   don’t open the door, but the intruders showed up at the hospital, maybe the kids at your home were hanging around with the wrong crowd.  

Rob-  Where did the gun come from?  How was the gun stored?

Elizabeth-  do your kids know what to do if there is an intruder?  Practice a plan, like a fire drill   

Rob-  You talk about that with your students?

Elizabeth- Our second story happened last week in Clarksburg, West Virginia.

Rob- Second Story-  Are you armed at work late at night?  You work as a night clerk at the Sutton Inn.  You help travelers with what they need.  A clean place to sleep.  Sometimes they need a toothbrush if they forgot something at home.  It’s been quiet this morning until a stranger walks through the doors.  He’s in his mid-twenties, wearing a black hoodie, jeans with sequins and wearing earrings.  His hands are in front of his face.  The stranger says, “Don’t make me pull my piece.  Just give me the money.”  You present your firearm and point it at the robber’s chest.  The robber turns and runs before you can pull the trigger.  You come around the counter, but don’t follow the robber outside.  Then you remember to call the police.  You tell police which way the robber ran.  The police arrest the robber at a nearby motel.  The charges filed against your attacker carry a 10 year minimum sentence.

Elizabeth- I wonder where the clerk had the gun?  Holster, pocket, a mount under the counter, in a drawer?  On body is best,  

Rob- Out of reach is out if use.

Elizabeth-

Rob- Was the clerk justified to pull the trigger? Yes he was justified, and he didn’t need to.

Elizabeth-  the clerk was well trained and exercised great self control.  In that the clerk had the gun easy to draw, the clerk had training.  I tell my students when they are in fear of an innocent person going to the morgue or the hospital, that is when to pull the trigger.  Not if someone is on your porch, or running away.

Elizabeth- Our third story happened last week in Grady, Oklahoma.

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Rob- Third story-  Are you armed when you’re at home?  You asked the judge for a protective order so your ex-boyfriend would leave you alone. The judge gave you the order, and said there was to be no contact between you and your ex-boyfriend.  Now your ex is calling again.  He wants the title to the car.  He demands you give him your credit card.  You told him to go away.  He threatened to kill you.  A neighbor called the police to say they saw him near your house.

Now he’s outside.  You grab your rifle, walk out on the porch and tell him to leave.  He starts to say something, but changes his mind and runs back to his car when he hears the sirens on the police cars.  The cops were right behind him as he drives away.  The police arrest him and put him in jail.

Rob- Tell me about opening the door.

Elizabeth- she didn’t think it through.

Elizabeth-  Good that the neighbors know about your problem.  They were the first to call the police.  I have given this advice to some of my students who may have been facing the same situation.  

Elizabeth-  Keep the door between you and trouble.  Always.  Why she grabbed her rifle and went outside doesn’t make sense.  I do get it.  You want him to go away, but in the cases we are often dealing with crazy.  It also builds the victim’s case if the bad guy has to break into the domicile.

Exit-  Rob- That wraps up this episode. Elizabeth, thank you for helping me today.  Where can our listeners learn more about you?

Elizabeth- I instruct in Colorado Springs.  I teach small classes at my private range in Black Forest.  Students can contact me at Colorado Boots Firearms Instruction.

Rob- Our listeners can share their thoughts with us by leaving a message on the podcast facebook page.  

Elizabeth-  If you liked this show, then you’ll like the other podcasts on the Self-defense radio network.  We create this podcast under a creative commons license, so please share them with a friend, and give us a rating on I-Tunes.

Rob- I’m Rob Morse.  We’ll be back next week with more Self-Defense Gun Stories.

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