Episode 60 with Elizabeth Hautman

Welcome to episode 60 of Self-Defense Gun Stories. Firearms instructor Elizabeth Hautman joins us this week. Together, we report and analyze examples of armed civilian defense. Were these gun owners lucky, or were they prepared? How would you do in their situation?

Introduction- Rob- I’m Rob Morse, and welcome to episode 60 of Self-Defense Gun Stories.  This podcast is for people who think they might want a gun for self-defense, and those who already have one.  We’re joined this week by self-defense instructor Elizabeth Hautman.

Hi, Elizabeth.  You’ve been busy.

Elizabeth- Hi, Rob.  

Appleseed.  Teaching new firearms students.

Hi to our new listeners, and welcome back to our regular listeners. We report and analyze three examples of armed civilian defense.  We hope you use these reports as part of your exercise program.. to exercise your imagination today so you can defend the people you care about tomorrow.  Please leave us a message on our facebook page with your questions or comments.

Elizabeth- Our first story took place last week near Palm Beach, Florida

Rob- First story-  Are you armed at home?  Your teenage son and his friends are watching TV and playing video games late at night.  They hear a knock on the door.  They open the front door to see who it is.  Two armed men push their way into your home.  One of the teenagers runs the the bathroom and slams the door behind him.  The robbers shoot through the bathroom door.

You hear the shouts, the slams and the gunfire.  You walk out of the master bedroom with your handgun drawn.  You fire at the armed intruders.  They run from the apartment.

One of your son’s friends was shot in the abdomen.  You call police and emergency medical services.  The medics take the teenager to the hospital.  While he is at the hospital, into the emergency room walks the intruder you shot.  Police arrest both intruders.

Elizabeth-   don’t open the door, but the intruders showed up at the hospital, maybe the kids at your home were hanging around with the wrong crowd.  

Rob-  Where did the gun come from?  How was the gun stored?

Elizabeth-  do your kids know what to do if there is an intruder?  Practice a plan, like a fire drill   

Rob-  You talk about that with your students?

Elizabeth- Our second story happened last week in Clarksburg, West Virginia.

Rob- Second Story-  Are you armed at work late at night?  You work as a night clerk at the Sutton Inn.  You help travelers with what they need.  A clean place to sleep.  Sometimes they need a toothbrush if they forgot something at home.  It’s been quiet this morning until a stranger walks through the doors.  He’s in his mid-twenties, wearing a black hoodie, jeans with sequins and wearing earrings.  His hands are in front of his face.  The stranger says, “Don’t make me pull my piece.  Just give me the money.”  You present your firearm and point it at the robber’s chest.  The robber turns and runs before you can pull the trigger.  You come around the counter, but don’t follow the robber outside.  Then you remember to call the police.  You tell police which way the robber ran.  The police arrest the robber at a nearby motel.  The charges filed against your attacker carry a 10 year minimum sentence.

Elizabeth- I wonder where the clerk had the gun?  Holster, pocket, a mount under the counter, in a drawer?  On body is best,  

Rob- Out of reach is out if use.

Elizabeth-

Rob- Was the clerk justified to pull the trigger? Yes he was justified, and he didn’t need to.

Elizabeth-  the clerk was well trained and exercised great self control.  In that the clerk had the gun easy to draw, the clerk had training.  I tell my students when they are in fear of an innocent person going to the morgue or the hospital, that is when to pull the trigger.  Not if someone is on your porch, or running away.

Elizabeth- Our third story happened last week in Grady, Oklahoma.

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Rob- Third story-  Are you armed when you’re at home?  You asked the judge for a protective order so your ex-boyfriend would leave you alone. The judge gave you the order, and said there was to be no contact between you and your ex-boyfriend.  Now your ex is calling again.  He wants the title to the car.  He demands you give him your credit card.  You told him to go away.  He threatened to kill you.  A neighbor called the police to say they saw him near your house.

Now he’s outside.  You grab your rifle, walk out on the porch and tell him to leave.  He starts to say something, but changes his mind and runs back to his car when he hears the sirens on the police cars.  The cops were right behind him as he drives away.  The police arrest him and put him in jail.

Rob- Tell me about opening the door.

Elizabeth- she didn’t think it through.

Elizabeth-  Good that the neighbors know about your problem.  They were the first to call the police.  I have given this advice to some of my students who may have been facing the same situation.  

Elizabeth-  Keep the door between you and trouble.  Always.  Why she grabbed her rifle and went outside doesn’t make sense.  I do get it.  You want him to go away, but in the cases we are often dealing with crazy.  It also builds the victim’s case if the bad guy has to break into the domicile.

Exit-  Rob- That wraps up this episode. Elizabeth, thank you for helping me today.  Where can our listeners learn more about you?

Elizabeth- I instruct in Colorado Springs.  I teach small classes at my private range in Black Forest.  Students can contact me at Colorado Boots Firearms Instruction.

Rob- Our listeners can share their thoughts with us by leaving a message on the podcast facebook page.  

Elizabeth-  If you liked this show, then you’ll like the other podcasts on the Self-defense radio network.  We create this podcast under a creative commons license, so please share them with a friend, and give us a rating on I-Tunes.

Rob- I’m Rob Morse.  We’ll be back next week with more Self-Defense Gun Stories.

Listen to Gun Freedom Radio at http://gunfreedomradio.com

Episode 52 with Elizabeth Hautman

Welcome to episode 52 of Self-Defense Gun Stories. Firearms instructor Elizabeth Hautman joins us this week. We report and analyze examples of armed civilian defense. Were these gun owners lucky, or were they prepared?

 

Introduction- Rob- Welcome to episode 52 of Self-Defense Gun Stories.  This show is for people who think they might want a firearm for self-defense, and those who already have one.  I’m Rob Morse and we’re joined this week by self-defense instructor Elizabeth Hautman.

Hi, Elizabeth.  How have you been?

Elizabeth- Hi, Rob. Happy birthday to the Self-Defense Gun Stories Podcast.  We’re a year old.

Rob- Thank you. And thank you to our listeners.

Elizabeth-  Let’s not forget them.  Hi to our new listeners, and welcome back to our regular listeners. We report and analyze three examples of armed civilian defense each week.  I hope we inspire you to defend the people you care about.  If you have questions or want to hear more, then please leave us a message on our facebook page.

Elizabeth- Rob, I want you to take this story first, because I have children at home.  Our first story took place this month in Oklahoma.

Rob- First story- Are you armed when you’re at home?  

You’re at home with your children on a Friday afternoon.  You hear sounds coming from the other end of the house.  That wasn’t the kids roughhousing.  Your daughter shouts, “Mom, someone is trying to open the front door.”  You go look, and by the time you get there, the visitor is gone.  Then you hear the sound of breaking glass.  Someone is breaking into your house through your children’s bedroom.  You grab your gun and walk towards the noise.  The kids are out of their room, but a stranger is climbing in through the broken window.

You yell, and then you shoot.  The female intruder runs away, and you call police.

The intruder was cut by the broken glass.  She tried to break into several other houses.  She also tried to break INTO a police car.  She was arrested by the Tulsa police, booked on first-degree burglary, attempted larceny of a vehicle, two counts of possession of a controlled drug and for resisting arrest.  The intruder was taken for medical treatment and then to jail.

Elizabeth-   There are quite a few lessons with this story.  Good job mom/dad for teaching the kids to notice the door issues and report the problem.  The kiddos didn’t open the door – never open the door!  That is a tough lesson for adults as well.  I can communicate through my door, and with the new doorbell technology, I can talk through that.  No need to open the door.

Rob- Good job kids.

Elizabeth-   Good job mom for recognizing the threat and retrieving her firearm.  I would always hope there is time to call the police before you shoot, but that is unrealistic at best.  Maybe if the kids are old enough, they could be on the phone.  Mom must have been hustling too!  She kept it together, because, I know, when my kids are in danger, the stress level and pressure will increase – calm heads must prevail.

Rob- How easy is it for new students to realize that they have a breakin?

Elizabeth- about 80 percent of my students are moms and new moms.  The question comes up again and again, will I have time to get my gun.  I have two answers.  This may sound a like a little much for people new to firearms, but the best place for me to keep my firearm, away from kids and always ready, is on my body.  It is in a secure holster and ready in 2 seconds.  But if that is not your style, and for many it isn’t, a safe, close at hand – like the one in my friend’s kitchen, is a good option as well.  

As a firearms owner it is my responsibility to keep my guns out of the hand of unauthorized people – my kids.  So yes there is a compromise, but the safe is easy open and will still keep my firearm close.

Lastly –  the character of the lady breaking in.  When I have students explain how racking the slide of a shotgun would scare away a criminal – they assume the criminal is of sound mind. This story states that the mom was screaming at the lady coming through the window before she fired her gun.  Any sane person would have high tailed it back out the window with the threat of being shot – this illustrates how deranged, or drugged up an intruder may be.  The intruder went on to even try to break into a police car.  The epitome of crazy.  You can never assume the intruder will think like you do.

Rob- 80 percent of criminals are high on drugs when they attack someone or break in.

Elizabeth- Our second story took place in Texas.

Second Story-  Are you armed at work?  You own a small barbeque restaurant in Houston Texas.  You’re 70 years old, and you’ve run J & S  Jeff’s Kitchen for a while.  It is late Saturday night.  You’ve closed up the place and are walking to your car to drive home home.  Two young men jump out from behind the dumpster and move toward you.  One of them has a gun out and he is pointing it at you.  They yell at you.  You know the drill.  You’ve been robbed before.  That is why you have a gun in your pocket tonight.

You didn’t see the thugs coming out of the darkness.  Now the darkness works to your advantage.  You draw your pistol and fire at the armed robber nearest to you.  He falls to the pavement.  You move and look for his partner.  The other robber is already running away.

It is hard to talk, but you call the police and try to explain what happened.

The police and EMTs arrive.  They take the wounded robber to the hospital where he died.  The police are looking for his partner.

Darkness, physical response

Elizabeth- The restaurant owner had a plan.  It is better to recognize the problem quickly so you can shoot slowly and accurately.  This older man did exactly that.  He had worked out his shoot and move strategy beforehand.

Rob- What can I do to recognize a robbery without on-the-job experience of being robbed?

Elizabeth-  You need to think about it ahead of time, and have a plan.

Rob- Give me an example.  What would I think, and what would I want to do?

Elizabeth- If I see people come out of the dark towards me with a gun, I’ll step to the side, draw my firearm, and defend myself.  Get off the line.  Keep moving, keep looking for bad guy number 2 or 3. Keep looking for cover, or an escape.

You don’t have to have a fire in your home to practice a fire drill – it just takes practice and FORETHOUGHT.  The same with a violent encounter.  Discuss with your spouse – what you might do if you hear an intruder.  Who goes to the kids, who calls the police, who retrieves the firearm.  Discuss with your co-workers – who leaves last, who will walk to the car – do you all leave together?  Work out a safety plan in advance.

Rob- The store owner was robbed at night.. Again.

Elizabeth- We can’t see well in the dark.  But this is important, neither can the criminals.  Action beats reaction.  That is why you need a plan.  A plan lets you take action when your brain locks up.  The animal instincts can kick in and should be expected if you are in fear for your life.  Training and practice can help anyone overcome that fearful paralysis.  The plan is the key.

It is hard for us to identify what is happening in the dark.  It is also hard for the criminals to recognize that their intended victim is defending himself.  Criminals pick their victims because they think they WON’T/CAN’T defend themselves.  Always be ready.  This BBQ owner was, and he had a strategy for survival.  I’m sure he knew the terrain better than the assailants in the dark as well – his advantage.

Local ranges often have simulators.

Another thought might have been to install lights.  Although the previous story illustrated that attackers don’t think like we do, and the light may not have deterred them, but lights help.  

It was also great that the restaurant owner called 911-  I recommend that if you ever get into a situation like this, get to safety, check to see if you are hurt, then call 911.  Remember you are the victim! You have been attacked and you defended yourself.  Give your statement to the police ONLY with your ATTORNEY present!

Elizabeth- Our third story took place in Illinois.

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Third story- Rob- Are you armed when you’re in your car?

You’re driving a friend to her home.  You are 70 years old, and at your age, lots of your friends don’t drive any more.  It is harder to drive at night, but this is a sunny day at 10 in the morning.  Traffic isn’t too bad in Venice, Illinois, just across the river from Saint Louis, Missouri.  You arrive at your destination and stop to say goodby.

A car pulls up next to you.  They ask for directions.  In a moment, the passenger in the other car has a gun out and pointed at you.  He wants you to get out of your car.

You’re armed.  You’re also a vietnam veteran, so you go to work.  You wait for the right moment, and shoot the armed robber closest to you.  You also shoot the robber behind the wheel.  Then you and your passenger move to safety and call police.

The armed robber died at the scene.  The wounded driver was taken to the hospital.  Police told you that the two thugs had probably robbed another driver that morning.  They were wanted for questioning in as many as 20 robberies last year.  Both robbers had long criminal records.

Elizabeth-  Criminals look for older people to rob.  They always look for the easy target.  The distracted mom, the dreamy teen or the old person.  Gray hair can make you a target.  The best way to keep my students safe is to teach them to be aware of their surroundings and not act like a target.  Walk with a purpose, make eye contact, keep your phone in your pocket, look behind you when you leave a store.  These are habits that could make the difference between you being a victim or not.

Rob- So it wasn’t an accident that they chose two older people?

Elizabeth-??  Nope, and this older man had a plan.  Over the years, he had kept his skills sharp, and was alert!  I tell my students to be aware, not paranoid, but know where the exits are, pay attention to the people around you.  This veteran was aware and recognized the threat from the first question – asking for directions.  The questions close the space, can distract you and the excuse of asking a question brought the bad guy right up to the car.  This veteran was not fooled and was ready.

Rob- Broad daylight

Elizabeth-  Daylight, but the thieves couldn’t see into the car.  Think about it – it is difficult to see into a vehicle unless you are right up close.  Also, just because it is daytime, never become complacent.  Bad things happen anytime of day.

Rob- Two criminals versus two victims.

Elizabeth-   Yes there is safety in numbers, and there were two attackers.  Sometimes there are more.  But you can practice and train for an event like this.  Get with an instructor, go through possible scenarios, develop your defensive skills.  

Exit-  Rob- That wraps up this episode. Elizabeth, thank you for helping me today.  Where can our listeners learn more about you?

Elizabeth- I instruct in Colorado Springs.  I teach small classes at my private range in Black Forest.  Students can contact me at Colorado Boots Firearms Instruction.

Rob- Our listeners can share their thoughts with us by leaving a message on the podcast facebook page.  

Elizabeth-  If you liked this show, then you’ll like the other podcasts on the Self-defense radio network.  We create this podcast under a creative commons license, so please share it with a friend, and give us a rating on I-Tunes.

Rob- I’m Rob Morse.  We’ll be back next week with more Self-Defense Gun Stories.

Episode 43 with Elizabeth Hautman

Welcome to episode 43 of Self-Defense Gun Stories. We report and analyze examples of armed civilian defense each week. Firearms instructor Elizabeth Hautman joins us this week.

Introduction- Rob- Welcome to episode 43 of Self-Defense Gun Stories.  This podcast is a proud part of the Self-Defense Radio Network.  I’m Rob Morse and we’re joined this week by self-defense instructor Elizabeth Hautman.   This is our first episode together, so please tell our listeners a little bit about you.

Elizabeth- Hi, Rob.  Thank you so much for having me.  I am a mom of two wonderful young men.  I love teaching firearms safety and concealed carry classes in Colorado Springs.  I designed my classes for new and timid shooters.  We increase their comfort and confidence with firearms in a few hours.

Rob- Welcome to the podcast.  You also worked with the NRA in your state.  Thank you for that.

Elizabeth- You’re welcome.  I listened to the podcast, and now I get to contribute.  Hi to our new listeners, and welcome back to our regular listeners. We report and analyze examples of armed civilian defense each week.  We bring you the news you don’t hear anywhere else, and I hope we inspire you to defend the people you care about.  If you have questions or want to hear more, then please leave us a message on our facebook page.

Elizabeth- Our first story took place this month in Florida.

Rob- First story- Are you armed in the bathroom?  A man was visiting his girlfriend’s apartment in Jacksonville, Florida.  He went the the bathroom at 2:30 in the morning when the woman’s ex-boyfriend decided to force open the front door.  The current boyfriend opened the bathroom door and saw the ex pointing a gun at his girlfriend.  The intruder threatened to kill the woman.  The boyfriend fired his handgun several times.  The armed intruder fled the scene and ran into his ex-girlfriend’s car as he left.

Police found him driving slowly and pulled him over.  The wounded robber was taken to the hospital for treatment and charged with armed burglary and aggravated assault.

Elizabeth- Kudos to the boyfriend in the bathroom.  He was ready for anything.  I would think he heard a ruckus and came to his girlfriend’s aid.  He assessed the deadly threat and took action.   In an extremely, high stress, dangerous situation, a defender needs to understand that their body may not react like it might on a calm day on the range.  It takes practice and repetition to be an effective protector and counteract your body’s natural fear reaction.

Rob-  What happens during that stressful situation, and when do you tell our students about that reaction?

Elizabeth – There are many things that may happen to your body, including loss of fine motor control and time distortion.  I fully cover your body’s reaction and how to counteract that in my Conceal Carry Class.  

Elizabeth-   When the threat ended, the boyfriend ceased firing.  That is another great point from this story.  He let the bad guy “get away.”  He defended himself and girlfriend and when the bad guy “fled the scene,” he let the police take over.  The boyfriend understood his responsibility as a firearms owner.

Rob- What difference does training make?

Elizabeth – Training is everything.  It is about muscle memory it’s about mental focus.  When you are driving on ice and your car starts to spin, turning into the spin has to be automatic, there isn’t time to figure it out.  Just like in a defensive situation, manipulating your firearm, aiming, firing and assessing when the threat has ended has to be automatic.   Keeping your wits about you is the difference good practice can make.

Elizabeth- There is nothing in this article that states that the good guy was a  Concealed Carry Permit holder.   I work with many people who may never carry, so they say they don’t need the Conceal Carry Class.  It is those type of students who may need training the most.  When you use your firearm, at home OR in public, just like when you sit in the driver’s seat of the car, you must know the “rules of the road.”  On more than one occasion, a homeowner with a gun, at home, broke the rules and got in trouble.  So it is important whether you carry outside the home or not, to learn from other people’s mistakes.  We train for the possibility not the probability of a violent encounter.

Rob- who called the police, and what did they tell them?

Elizabeth – ALWAYS call the police when you draw your firearm.  Victims call the police, bad guys don’t.  Give 911 a description of the bad guys and let them do their job.

Elizabeth- Our second story took place in Indiana.

Rob- Second Story- Are you armed when you meet to complete a deal online?  We conduct commerce by e-mail and voice using our phones.  A man was lured to a home early Sunday morning.  It isn’t clear if the intended victim was an Uber driver, a Waiter delivery person, or if he responded to an online advertisement.  It is clear that a 15 year old boy pulled a gun when the unsuspecting visitor walked up to the door of this Indianapolis home.  The attacker and his friends then began to search the victim and empty his pockets.  They found more than they expected.

The intended victim was armed.  He drew his own gun and shot his attacker.  The victim ran to a safe location, and called police.  The wounded attacker was transported to a local hospital where he died.  The police interviewed the victim and released him.

Elizabeth-   First –  If you feel the situation you are walking into is shady, or too good to be true, say no.  No job is worth the risk. Trust and listen to that little voice inside, your intuition, your instinct.  

Rob-   But they ordered a pizza?

Elizabeth-  Second, bring a friend and meet in a public place, in daylight hours.  In my town, the police station has a special parking area for e commerce trade.  All of your transactions can be completed under the cameras of the police station.

Rob- I like that idea.  You mentioned concealed carry earlier.  Tell me more about that.

Elizabeth- My students learn what to do and how to do it.  That means they can defend themselves quickly and accurately.  The first time they present their firearm from a holster it may take us a few minutes.  Later, they will do it in two seconds.  

Rob- That is a huge improvement.

Elizabeth- it is, but they have to have those skills before they need them.  There isn’t time for “on the job training” in self-defense.

Elizabeth- Lastly, I’m asking our listeners the same thing I ask my students.  Please carry, be ready, and have a plan.  This man was not going to be a victim and was prepared to defend his life.  

Elizabeth- Our third story took place in California.

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Rob- Third story- Are you armed at work?  A convenience store clerk couldn’t believe his eyes. This happened in Fresno, California, and the clerk saw a man and a woman enter the store at 2 in the morning.  The man pulled a rifle from behind his coat and demanded money.  The clerk drew his gun and fired.  The thieves ran.  The clerk called police who looked at the surveillance video.  Door to door, the robbers were in the store less than eight seconds.

That isn’t a lot of time.

Elizabeth-  Eight seconds. Wow,  a fast draw from concealed on your body is less than 2 seconds.  It takes me 60 seconds just to find my keys in my purse.  It took us longer than that to describe the story.  Look at what the clerk did here.  To be aware enough to quickly recognize a threat, and defend yourself took courage and planning.  The clerk thought about this before it happened.

Rob-  You have to think ahead, just as you have to think ahead when you arrive at your car and look for your keys.  Otherwise you fumble around as you put away your phone.

Elizabeth-   That is us.  I am often asked by students if they should carry a loaded gun with a round in the chamber.

Rob- That means they are carrying a gun that is ready to fire?

Elizabeth- Right.  The gun is ready to do work.  I tell them “Yes, when you are confident enough to do it.”  The reason is time.  This lethal encounter took 8 seconds door to door and you don’t have an extra 1.5 seconds to put that round in the chamber.  Time is what you need in a defensive situation, and it is most often what you have least of.  

Rob- Time to think, or time to act?

Elizabeth-  You don’t have time for anything except to save your life right now.

Rob- How do your students react when you tell them they can save their lives?

Elizabeth- They don’t say a lot, but it shows on their faces.

Rob- What do their expressions tell you?

Elizabeth- Everything they ever learned watching television was incorrect, they realize that, “I am my own first responder!”

Elizabeth- Another question I am asked by students is ‘What size firearm should I buy?’ Well in this case, whatever pistol you brought to work that day, that gun was up against a rifle.  I recommend that the best firearm for you is the one you are will carry ALL THE TIME and are comfortable shooting accurately.  It doesn’t sound like the bad guys even got off a shot thanks to the quick thinking clerk.  

Rob- What mistakes do students make when they buy their first gun?  (Tell me about new gun owners who bought the wrong gun for them, too heavy to carry, too large to conceal, too small to handle, to powerful for its size)

Elizabeth-  Maybe because I grew up with a family in the automobile business, I use a lot of car analogies, everyone wants to buy a Large Suburban that  is safe, which gets the gas mileage of a Prius, and costs what a 1998 Camry does.  It is the same with firearms.  

Elizabeth- You have to choose a firearm that fits your hand, with the most stopping power, that you are willing to carry.  Many student’s first gun, just plain doesn’t fit their hands, but .  smaller size doesn’t compute to less recoil either.  I encourage my students to try a couple of firearms, take a class and evaluate how they are going to carry in the future.  And, I joke that the first gun, may not be the last. So don’t get caught up in over thinking the purchase, just get the gun and practice.

Exit-  Rob- That wraps up this episode. Elizabeth Hautman, thank you for helping me today.  Where can our listeners find out more about you?

Elizabeth- I instruct in Colorado Springs.  I teach small classes at my private range in Black Forest.  Students can contact me at Colorado Boots Firearms Instruction.

Rob- The link is in our show notes.  Our listeners can share their thoughts with us by leaving a message on the podcast facebook page.  

Elizabeth- If these examples inspired you, then please share them with a friend.  Give us a rating on I-Tunes.

I’m Rob Morse.  Please join us next week for more Self-Defense Gun Stories.

Listen to Gun Freedom Radio at http://gunfreedomradio.com