Episode 113 with Elizabeth Hautman

Can you protect innocent victims at home, at work, and on the street? Firearms instructor Elizabeth Hautman brings us three news stories of armed civilians who protected themselves.. and those they love. (18 minute audio podcast)

Rob- Introduction- Welcome to episode 113 of Self-Defense Gun Stories.  This podcast is for people who might want a gun for self-defense, and for those who already have one.  I’m your host, Rob Morse. We have firearms instructor Elizabeth Hautman with us as co-host.

Hi, Elizabeth.  How have you been?

Elizabeth- Hi, Rob.  I’ve been running a couple classes a week.

Rob-Please introduce our podcast to our new listeners.

Elizabeth- We study three recent examples of armed defense to see what we can learn.  These gun owners survived a life threatening situation because they were armed. What would you do in their place?

Our first story took place last week near Atlanta, Georgia.  Here’s what happened.

Rob- First story-  Are you armed as you buy groceries?  

You’re shopping with your wife after work. Lots of people are picking up supplies for the Father’s Day weekend. Three men approach you as you walk to your car. They are armed. You’re being robbed. You carry concealed. You and your wife run behind your car. You present your firearm and shoot all three robbers. They shoot back, at least for a while. Soon, one of the robbers runs away. One robber drops to the pavement. The third crawls back inside the store.

You and your wife are shaken, but not shot. Your car isn’t so lucky. You call the police.

The police pick up the two robbers and take them to local hospitals. That is where they arrest the third robber who drove away.

Elizabeth- I notice that our defender was alert. His head was probably out of his phone. He noticed that three men with guns walking up behind him was unusual and he acted on that clue. That is what let him with against three attackers.

Rob- Was this a robbery or a carjacking?

Elizabeth- Maybe. We don’t know if the robbers told him what they wanted, or if he noticed them as they approached. It sounds like the first thing the good guys did is move, and that changed everything.

Rob- What do you mean?

Elizabeth- Most couples would stand there frozen. They would wonder who is going to act first. This couple got behind their car. That kept the bad guys from grabbing them. It limited how many of the robbers could approach them at one time. It also absorbed some of the bullets in the gunfight that followed.

Rob- I see that.

Elizabeth- Moving changed the entire dynamic of the event.

The robbers had a plan. The victims would have their eyes down in their phones or be busy loading their groceries. The robbers would quickly confront them and take their money and keys. The victims would never have time to form a plan and act on it.

Instead, the victims moved. Now it was the robbers who had to react to an armed defender. The defenders had cover and the robbers were out in the open in the lane of traffic. The fact that the wife knew to move made this defense possible. If possible, they could move around opposite ends of the car so that the robbers wouldn’t know who to chase, but the important thing to do is to move and do something.

Rob- I thought you were going to say the armed defender shot well.

Elizabeth- He might have, but he made the shooting part much more effective because he was behind his car rather than out in the open. It is more important to avoid getting shot than to be a good shot. These defenders did both.

Rob- Anything else you notice?

Elizabeth- Most armed robberies have multiple attackers, so this isn’t that unusual. I wish both defenders were armed and trained. That would have made their attackers run away sooner and made this husband and wife even safer.

Our second story happened last week east of Orlando in Seminole County, Florida.

Rob- Second Story-  Are you armed at home in the afternoon?   

You are at home with your mom when you hear someone break into your home. You both run upstairs and hide in your bedroom. You grab your gun and retreat into a corner. A stranger opens your bedroom door and you shoot him. He runs. Now you call police. You and your mom are frightened but unharmed.

The police arrest the wounded robber at a nearby gas station. They also arrest two of his accomplices. Both are being charged with murder after their partner died at the hospital.

Elizabeth- See, three attackers again. I’m glad the door was locked so the robbers had to break in. That gives you time to act before the robbers are on top of you.

Rob- Good point. The defenders knew how to use the time they had.

Elizabeth- The defender was a young woman who had some firearms training. It isn’t clear if she pulled her mom into her room where she had her gun, or if the young woman was armed at home and went to her mom’s room to defend them both. Either plan would work.

Rob- She made the robbers come to her.

Elizabeth- She thought about this before it happened. She made the bad guys step around the corner and open her bedroom door. That means she got a turn to defend herself before the robbers got a chance to attack either her or her mom. A good plan means you have an opportunity to act and the bad guys have to react rather than hurt you.  

Rob- What else did you notice.

Elizabeth- I want my students to take care of first things first. Get your defensive tools, a gun and a phone. Gather your loved ones and go someplace safe. Then, get help on the way. Maybe mom was calling the police once they were safely in their bedroom. That isn’t the sort of thing that reporters think to ask. Also, the daughter didn’t chase the robbers. She let the police do that. Good for her.

Our third story happened last week in McComb, Mississippi.

Rob- First this message.

Please support Coloradans for Civil Liberties

Rob- Third story- Are you armed at work?

You work in a convenience store. It is after dark. You hear some noise from the backroom and turn around. The other night clerk is a young woman. She is being pushed back into the store by a man holding a gun to her head. The robber pushes her into the store and waves his gun at both of you.

You’re armed. You wait for a moment and then draw your own handgun. You shoot the robber. He shoots back and you shoot again. Now he runs out the front of the store. You lock the front door and call police. Neither of you are hurt, but you’re both very upset.

The robber looks like the same man who robbed your gas station last week. This time you were armed. The police find the dead robber across the street. They examine the surveillance video, just as they did last week. There are no charges against you.

Elizabeth- Store clerks carry out the trash late at night when there are not many customers around. Criminals wait in the dark near the dumpster so they can sneak in the back entrance. Both clerks needed to be armed..and maybe to have bright lights they could turn on at the back of the store when they went outside.

Rob- I carry the trash out in the dark at least once a week before pick-up day.

Elizabeth- Lots of us do, and it is predictable. Go armed when you go outside at night. The guys with the best plan win, so better yet, carry the trash out while it is still light outside.

Rob- What else did you notice.

Elizabeth- One of the defenders was armed. That is an improvement from last week when they were both disarmed. I hope the defender had the gun on him rather than having it behind the counter. The clerk could have been working on the displays in the middle of the store when the robber came in using the other clerk as a hostage. You don’t have a gun if it is out of reach.

Rob- A lot of gun owners pretend they have a gun for defense, but the gun is out of reach. Do you talk about that with your students?

Elizabeth- That is one of the first things we talk about. Most of them get it.

Both of the store employees did the right thing when they waited their turn to defend themselves. We don’t know how the female clerk was able to move away from the robber. It is important to think about that ahead of time.

I want my students to practice enough so they know how much time and distance they need to use their firearm effectively. That way they can recognize it when the robber gives them the time they need.

Rob- It sounds like the clerk shot once and then stopped. That is when the robber shot back.

Elizabeth- I noticed that. We want to avoid a gunfight where both sides shoot their guns. Practice so that your first shots hit the target. That give you an advantage because you are not shot and your attacker is. Keep shooting until the attacker stops threatening you.

Rob- Anything else?

Exit-  Rob- That wraps up this episode. Elizabeth, thank you for helping us today.  Where can we learn more about you?

Elizabeth- I instruct in Colorado Springs.  I teach small classes at my private range in Black Forest.  Students can contact me at Colorado Boots Firearms Instruction.

Rob- Some of you have shared the articles we post on the podcast facebook page.  You can also leave us a message and share your thoughts, either in public or in private.

Elizabeth-   If you liked this show, then you’ll like the other podcasts on the Self-defense radio network. We share this podcast with you for free.  Please share it with a friend and give us a rating on I-Tunes and Stitcher.  We’re also available on Google Play Music and Spotify.

Rob- I’m Rob Morse.  We’ll be back next week with more Self-Defense Gun Stories.

Please support Doctors for responsible gun ownership, DRGO.us

 

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Episode 105 with Elizabeth Hautman

Can you protect yourself at home, at work, and as you drive? Firearms instructor Elizabeth Hautman brings us three news stories of armed civilians who protected themselves.. and those they love. (18 minute audio podcast)

Rob- Introduction- Welcome to episode 105 of Self-Defense Gun Stories.  This podcast is for people who might want a firearm for self-defense, and for those who already have one.  I’m your host, Rob Morse. We have firearms instructor Elizabeth Hautman with us as co-host.

Hi, Elizabeth.  How have you been?

Elizabeth- Hi, Rob.  I’ve been busy setting up my spring schedule.  Now is the time to take advantage of mild temps and quiet weekends before summer kicks in.

Rob- Please introduce our podcast to our new listeners.

Elizabeth- Each week we study three new examples of armed defense to see what we can learn. What should we do if we were in their situation? Our first story took place last week in Hesperia, California.  Here is what happened.

Rob- First story-  Is your firearm available to you late in the evening?  

You’re at home late in the evening. You’re in bed when you hear a really loud crash from the front of your home. You grab your gun and go to investigate. A stranger is standing in the front room and your front window is gone. You yell for him to leave, and then shoot him when he doesn’t. Now the intruder leaves. You retreat to your bedroom and call police.

EMTs take the intruder to the hospital. The police recognize the intruder. Your intruder was arrested for a parole violation two months ago and was let out of jail four days ago.

The news media asks you to comment, and you don’t. Police Sgt. Marc Bracco said, “We’re glad when any homeowner protects themselves, that’s what they need to do in these situations. That’s why you’re allowed to carry a firearm in your residence.”

Elizabeth, how do you store your guns at night?  

Elizabeth- Well Rob, there are two answers to that and it really depends upon whether the kids are home or not.  I always lock up my firearms when the kids are home. No question about it. Even though they are responsible, older teens, with firearms experience, we all know teens can be unpredictable and moody.  Also, i’m happy to welcome their friends into the house. No telling what their gun education is. So kids in the house, guns locked up, kids at dad’s gun in by my bed. We always have to make compromises when it comes to firearms access.  I know some who sleep with a firearm under their pillow. I don’t understand that. My gun would be on the floor with the extra blanket and pillows and no use to me anyway. I trust my training to access my firearm efficiently when the time comes.

Secondly,  I am not searching through my home looking for the intruder.  What if I hear one guy and there are three, what if I am outgunned, and besides, there is nothing beyond my room worth getting hurt over.

Rob- When would your students learn to shoot in low light?

Elizabeth- Indoor range, simulators are great for that type of practice.  We are fortunate to have that type of trainer in my town.

Rob- Do you talk about calling the police and what to say when they arrive?

Elizabeth- Absolutely….

Elizabeth- Our second story happened last week in Memphis, Tennessee.

Rob- Second Story-  Are you armed as you drive your car?

You’re driving for Uber Eats to pick up a few dollars. It is a few minutes after midnight on a weekday night. Your wife is riding along as you drive. You pull into  IHOP and pick up the order. You hand her the order and sit in the driver’s seat when three young men approach your car. One of them puts a gun to the driver’s side window and tells you to get out of the car and hand him your keys and your money.

Your wife is in the car. You grab your handgun that is sitting in the center console. You shoot the attacker closest to your driver’s window. Some of the other robbers are shooting at your car. You open the door and shoot back at them.

They run. You and  your wife go inside and call the police. Two of the robbers were arrested at the hospital. The police said they may be connected to another robbery earlier that night.

Elizabeth, this is pretty advanced self-defense. You have to defend yourself from multiple attackers in the dark, and you have someone else to protect so you can’t run.

Rob- Where would we learn to carry in a car?

Elizabeth-   Again, one step at a time.  Really we don’t know what we don’t know.  I have worked with the unconscious incompetent.  The student doesn’t have an inkling what they don’t know.   Then they take a class and begin to see the total sum of completeness of what there is to know and they become the consciously incompetent.  So the student becomes aware of their shortcomings and then hopefully becomes motivated to learn more. Hopefully to progress to unconsciously competent where the right thing to do becomes automatic.  That comes from training, training and more training. Incorporating muscle memory into the drill and just knowing what to do. I believe we drive that way. I know I don’t have to tell myself to turn on the turn signal, it is an automatic maneuver for my turn.  I unconsciously know to do that before I initiate a turn. Firearms training is the same way. But only after much practice and training and coaching.

Rob- Suppose you have your carry permit. How could you safely practice drawing a firearm while you’re seated?  

Elizabeth- This is where tools like blue guns come into play.  I use them quite frequently in my class. They are simply plastic guns, that fit in my holster and have the look and feel of my real firearm, however, they are bright blue, and plastic.  

Elizabeth- Our third story happened last week in Roanoke, Virginia.

Please join and support the Second Amendment Foundation at SAF.org

Rob- Third story- Are you armed when you’re walking down the street?

You’re working on equipment in a small business. It is late morning and you hear people scream outside. You look out the window and see a dog attack a young mother who is pushing a baby carriage. You walk to your car and grab your gun. An older man with a cane is hitting the dog and trying to protect the mother and child. The dog bites the older man. You run closer. Someone shoots the dog in the face with pepper spray. Someone grabs his collar and tries to choke the dog. Someone hits the dog with a hammer. Finally the dog lets go and the victims scatter. You shoot the dog. You have to shoot the dog a second time to stop him.

An animal control officer comes to take the dog away. He’d seen this dog before after the dog bit someone.

Elizabeth- He had a gun. I wish it was on him rather than in his truck.

Rob- This isn’t easy. We don’t usually think of animals as a target.

Elizabeth-  I carry pepper spray because of animals.  Very often I believe that I would rather spray a dog because they are just doing what comes naturally to them, in this case, however, the pepper spray didn’t work.  There may be a few reasons for that. Not all pepper spray is created equally. I recommend one with tested high levels of capsaicinoids. Really hot. Also practice with them.  They sell practice sprays that are just water so you can check your aim and try it first.

Rob- This was on a city street in the middle of the day.

Elizabeth- Remember the four safety rules? One of them is to know your target and what lies around it. Could anyone move between you and the dog as you shoot. You’re probably shooting down at the dog. Where will your bullets go if they bounce off the street?

Exit-  Rob- That wraps up this episode. Elizabeth, thank you for helping us today.  Where can we learn more about you?

Elizabeth- I instruct in Colorado Springs.  I teach small classes at my private range in Black Forest.  Students can contact me at Colorado Boots Firearms Instruction.

Rob- You can share your thoughts with us by leaving a message on the podcast facebook page.  

Elizabeth-  We share this podcast with you for free.  Please share it with a friend and give us a rating on I-Tunes and Stitcher.  We’re also available on Google Play Music.

Rob- I’m Rob Morse.  We’ll be back next week with more Self-Defense Gun Stories.

Please support Buckeye Firearms Foundation at https://www.buckeyefirearmsfoundation.org/

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Episode 98 with Elizabeth Hautman

Can you protect yourself at home and away? Learn how. Elizabeth Hautman brings us three news stories of armed civilians who protected themselves and those they love. (15 minute audio podcast)

Rob- Introduction- Welcome to episode 98 of Self-Defense Gun Stories.  This podcast is for people who might want a firearm, and for those who have one and want to learn more about how to use it.  I’m your host, Rob Morse.  We have firearms instructor Elizabeth Hautman as co-host this week.

Hi, Elizabeth.  How have you been?

Elizabeth- Hi, Rob.  I’ve been well, a mild winter has been great for students as we shoot in our beautiful winter weather. ????

Rob- Elizabeth, please introduce our podcast.

Elizabeth- Each week we study three recent examples of armed defense. Our first story took place last week in Blakely, Georgia. Here is what happened.

Rob- First story-  Are you armed as you arrive home?

It is late on a Saturday evening. You arrive home with your 12 year old daughter. Your daughter walks into her room and you head into your room and then the kitchen. The report isn’t clear who noticed it first, but you walk into your daughters room and notice something wrong with her bedroom window. A strange man comes out of your daughter’s closet. You yell at him and he attacks you. You fight with him..with the spoon you have in your hand. You and your daughter retreat. You get your gun and shoot your attacker. He stumbles away. Some news reports say you used a shotgun. Others say you could have used a handgun.

Now you and your daughter retreat to your bedroom and lock the door.  You call 911. The police find your attacker outside and unresponsive.

Your attacker was a convicted sex offender. His car was located a few blocks away behind a motel.

Elizabeth- Slow start. Good finish. POGO.

Elizabeth- Our second story happened last week in Dekalb County, Georgia.

Rob- Second Story-  Are you armed as you go shopping?

You want to buy a bottle of liquor. You drive to the store and start comparing brands. The store owner and another employee are getting ready to close. You make your selection and move towards the cash register. Three men enter the store and announce a robbery. They point guns at the clerk and the store owner. You’re armed. One of the robbers shoots the store owner. You draw your firearms and shoot the robber in the back. The robber stops attacking the store owner. You shoot at the next robber closest to you. The third robber is out the door before you can shoot at him.

Police arrive and take you in for questioning. The store owner and two of the robbers are taken to the hospital.

Elizabeth- All your examples last week were about armed citizens defending others. Good for them, and good for this man as well. It is clear that self-defense was justified because the robber shot the store owner.

Rob- Hospital or morgue.

Elizabeth- He was armed. He saw a lethal threat. He saved a life.

Rob- Are you justified in shooting all three robbers even though only one of them shot the store owner?

Elizabeth- Our third story happened last week in Ada, Oklahoma.

Learn more at SAF Training Division.

Rob- Third story- Are you armed when you’re at home?

You’re asleep in your bed. It is three AM when you hear something unexpected from inside your home. It is the sound of breaking glass. You roll out of bed and grab your gun from your nightstand. You walk into your house. The intruder is using a flashlight to look around your home. You yell at him when you hear him shoot at you several times.  You return fire and shoot your attacker. He runs. You are very shaken, but uninjured.

The police find your attacker as he was driving away with his accomplice. The two men are connected to 10 other burglaries. Your attacker has several felony charges against him including domestic abuse. Your attacker’s sons are in prison for murder or awaiting trial for murder.

Elizabeth- There are bad guys out there.

Elizabeth- This homeowner put his life at risk by investigating a breakin. Let the police do that. Lock your door. Call the police. You want to have a broken window and a smashed in door so the police know you were defending yourself.

Elizabeth- Insurance?

Exit-  Rob- That wraps up this episode. Elizabeth, thank you for helping us today.  Where can we learn more about you?

Elizabeth- I instruct in Colorado Springs.  I teach small classes at my private range in Black Forest.  Students can contact me at Colorado Boots Firearms Instruction.

Rob- You can share your thoughts with us by leaving a message on the podcast facebook page.  

Elizabeth-   If you liked this show, then you’ll like the other podcasts on the Self-defense radio network.  

We share this podcast with you for free.  Please share it with a friend and give us a rating on I-Tunes and Stitcher.  We’re also available on Google Play Music.

Rob- I’m Rob Morse.  We’ll be back next week with more Self-Defense Gun Stories.

Give a listen at http://www.armedlutheran.us/

Episode 92 with Elizabeth Hautman

Instructor Elizabeth Hautman joins us this week with three new self-defense stories. Were these gun owners lucky, or were they armed with tools and training? How would you react in their situation? (18 minutes)

Rob- Introduction- Welcome to episode 92 of Self-Defense Gun Stories.  This podcast is for people who might want a firearm.. and for those who already have one.  I’m your host, Rob Morse, and firearms instructor Elizabeth Hautman is our co-host this week.

Hi, Elizabeth. I hope you had a great vacation, a happy Christmas, and a happy new year.

Elizabeth- Hi, Rob.  I’ve been enjoying time off with my family.  This is the best time of the year.  I feel like I can reset  and hit the ground running for 2018.

Rob- Elizabeth, please introduce our podcast to our new listeners.

Elizabeth- Each week we discuss three recent examples of armed defense. Our first story took place last week near Wilmington, North Carolina. Here is what happened.

Rob- First story-  Do you have a firearm nearby when you sleep at night?  

You live in a mobile home by yourself. You hear a crashing sound early in the morning. At least you thought you heard it. It was loud enough and it shook the whole building. Did you imagine it? Now you hear voices outside. Someone has broken into your home. You grab your firearm and move from your bedroom toward the sound. You see two strangers in your home. You shout for them to get out. One of them shoots at you. You shoot back. Both men run. You back up to your bedroom and call police.

The police tell you that your attacker was a three time felon who had a gun.

Elizabeth- Good that he locked his doors. An alarm would be even better.  I really believe that at a crazy hour in the morning, it is difficult to recognize a threat.  Our homeowner, got over his/her disbelief and accessed their firearm.

 Good that he had a gun, knew where it was, and what condition it was in, ready to fire.

Elizabeth- This is why the castle doctrine is so important. These robbers were armed. You don’t have to announce yourself to a team of armed robbers as you’re standing there in your underwear. That is bad planning. I tell my students to get their gun, call the police, and then wait in their bedroom so you force the robbers to come to you!

Rob- It seems like a pretty vulnerable position if you walk out of your bedroom and yell at a bunch of armed robbers while you’re standing in the middle of your kitchen in your underwear.

Elizabeth- A pre thought out plan may have kept the homeowner safer when bullets were flying.  In my home, there is nothing besides me and my family worth bleeding over.  If someone wants the 10 year old television, I am not going to risk getting in their way.  So my plan is to stay between bad guys and the kids, no more.  I set up a defensive position and wait.  If I had not planned or thought about this in advance, it would be easy to chase people through my house, possibly exposing my family to danger.

 

Rob- If you stay in your bedroom, are you justified in shooting them as they come through your bedroom door?

Elizabeth- You forced them to come through your doorway. You don’t have to announce where you are.  That is up to you.  If bad guys are entering my bedroom, through that fatal funnel, the doorway, I will be ready.

Our second story happened last week near Houston, Texas.

Rob- Second Story-  Are you armed at home when you’re up late at night?

You are up late at night. You’ve put your three month old daughter to bed. Your husband is out of town, and you can’t sleep. It is just after midnight when you hear your alarm sound. You’re suddenly wide awake and you hear the back door open. You grab your gun and move toward the sound. You see a stranger standing in your kitchen. You raise your firearm and yell for him to leave. Your dog runs toward him barking. The man leaves the way he came.

Now you lock the doors and call police. She says she’d practiced getting her gun before.

Elizabeth- Lock the back door.

Rob- The story could have been very different if she didn’t hear the alarm. It could have been much better if the robber

Elizabeth- Have your gun on you. What if they broke through the front door and your daughter and your gun were on the other side of the house?  Again, I would get between my daughter and the intruder.  I won’t chase a bad guy, I will let the intruder come to me.

Rob- It sounds like she needed to go get her gun.

Elizabeth- A dog is a good alarm, but a real electronic alarm doesn’t go off each time the mailman goes by.

Our third story happened last week in Chicago, Illinois.

Rob- Third story- Are you armed at work?  

Your family owns a small corner grocery. You also own a small cell phone store a few doors down the street. You have video cameras in both stores. You notice the motion and look up to see an armed robber walk into your brother’s store. He is pointing a gun at your brother an another employee. You run out the door and draw your gun. You brace yourself behind a concrete post and yell for the thief to drop his gun. He turns and shoots at you. You shoot back. You hit the thief in the shoulder and he drops his gun. You stand over him with your gun drawn while your brother calls the police.

You have your concealed carry permit. The police look at the videos. The teenage robber was out on parole. It was illegal for him to have a gun, and illegal for the robber to carry concealed firearm in public.

Elizabeth- I notice that criminals don’t obey gun laws.  As is often the case.

Rob- What else should we learn from this story?

Elizabeth- The store owner was alerted by a video camera.  That is great.  It was also great that the store owner had his gun on him because he didn’t have time to get it from a safe or a locked drawer.  

Rob- What would you tell your students to do in this situation?

Elizabeth- Bad tactics in getting into a gun fight because you talked when you should have been shooting. Good tactics in hiding behind a concrete pillar.  Also marksmanship played a role in this scenario as well.  

Rob- When are we justified in using lethal force, and was it justified? The robber hadn’t shot anyone yet.

Elizabeth- There is a time to talk, and a time to shoot. It is a time to shoot when your brother and an innocent employee are facing a lethal threat. Keep shooting until the threat goes away.

Rob- What do you say to the police?

Say your family was attacked. The robber shot at you. You defended them. Let the video do the talking if you can. Contact your lawyer and say you’ll answer all their questions and help with the investigation after you’ve talked with your lawyer. You want to point out obvious evidence, but that is a slippery slope.  

Rob- Why is that a problem.

What you said may not be exactly what happened. The patrolman’s written record may not match exactly what you told him. Wait until you speak with your lawyer. Your lawyer will ask to see the tapes before he makes a statement to the police.

Exit-  Rob- That wraps up this episode. Elizabeth, thank you for helping us today.  Where can our listeners learn more about you?

Elizabeth- I instruct in Colorado Springs.  I teach small classes at my private range in Black Forest.  Students can contact me at Colorado Boots Firearms Instruction.

Rob- Our listeners can share their thoughts with us by leaving a message on the podcast facebook page.  

Elizabeth-   We share this podcast with you for free.  Please share it with a friend and give us a rating on I-Tunes and Stitcher.  We’re also available on Google Play Music and spotify.

Rob- I’m Rob Morse.  We’ll be back next week with more Self-Defense Gun Stories.

DRGO

 

Episode 86 with Elizabeth Hautman

Welcome to episode 86. Instructor Elizabeth Hautman joins us this week with three new self-defense stories. Were these gun owners lucky, or were they armed with tools and training? How would you react in their situation? (17 minutes)

Rob- Introduction- Welcome to episode 86 of Self-Defense Gun Stories. This podcast is for people who might want a firearm..and for those who already have one. I’m your host, Rob Morse, and firearms instructor Elizabeth Hautman joins us as to co-host this week..

Hi, Elizabeth.  How have you been?

Elizabeth- Hi, Rob.  I had five wonderful students. They knew how to shoot, but were brand new to armed self-defense.

Rob- Elizabeth, please introduce our show.

Elizabeth- We discuss three recent examples of armed civilian defense to see what we can learn. Leave us a message on our facebook page with your questions or comments.

Elizabeth- Our first story took place last week in Saint Paul, Minnesota.

Rob, set the scene for us.

Rob- First story-  Are you armed when you’re walking downtown at night?

You’re walking back to your car. It is late at night. A man comes up to you and says, “Give me your wallet.” You almost don’t believe it. You’re about to ask him to say it again when you notice the gun in his hand. You’re being robbed. You start to back up, and the robber raises his gun. You put your wallet in your left hand. Then you reach for your handgun with your right hand. You have a concealed carry permit, and your armed. You shoot your attacker. He’s startled, and you take that moment to run away.

Then you call police.

Elizabeth- Unexpected things happen. I’ve been out late at night when I didn’t expect to be. Some of my students want a gun for “when I need it”. This man didn’t know he’d need it until he already needed it. Unless you plan to live in your gunsafe, then carry so you’ll have your gun. Now that I’m done with my first sermon.. The first thing our gun owner did was carry a gun when he didn’t expect to need it.

Rob- He also presented a gun quickly, but cautiously. Did you notice that?

Elizabeth- He waited his turn, and then he acted with sufficient violence to stop the threat.

Rob- What are the milestones that a new student goes through so they can present a gun quickly?

Elizabeth- We take small simple steps. firearm safety, including how to store your guns. How to shoot. How to carry.  How to draw. How to move with a gun. And then they have to practice those things.

Rob- That sounds like a lot to learn, but you teach it every week?

 

Our second story happened last week in Los Angeles, California.

Rob- Second Story-  Are you armed at home?

You’re in your room at your family’s home. It is 2am, and you hear yelling from the front door. A large group of men have broken into your home. They have guns pointed at everyone. You are still in the back hallway and you hear the robbers beating and threatening your family. You go back to your room. You grab your gun and move toward the front of the house. You start shooting as you round the corner. The robbers run.

Police report that eight men broke into your home.  The took two small safes as they ran.

What did our defender do correctly.

Elizabeth- He had a gun to protect his family. This is in Los Angeles County, so you can’t get a carry permit, but you can still have a gun at home. This man did when he was attacked by a large robbery team. That five shot revolver you were thinking of might not be enough gun.

Rob- What else.

Elizabeth- He was determined to protect the people he loved. He moved forward into the fight.

Rob- What could he have done better?

Elizabeth- We can teach you how to use cover. That means you don’t have to run into the middle of the family room and start shooting where the bad guys can shoot back at you. You can shoot out of the darkness and never be seen by your attackers. That means you have to learn low-light shooting too.

Rob- You teach that?

Elizabeth- Sure do. Our third story happened last week in Chicago, Illinois.

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Rob- Third story- Are you armed when you walk down the street?

It is early in the morning when you finally arrive home. You park your car on the street. You walk up to your front door when a young man steps up behind you and points a gun at you. He demands your wallet, your phone, and your keys. You have your Illinois concealed carry permit. You’re carrying. You drop the bag in your hands. You step to the side and then draw your own firearm. You shoot several times. Then you run.

The  police picked up your attacker not far from your front door. He was shot in the abdomen, and in both legs. You are shaken, but you’re not shot. The police say your attacker’s gun was only a pellet gun. They take your attacker to the hospital.

Elizabeth- What did I say about our first story? Have your gun when you need it.

Rob- Wow. There was no time to “get my gun”. I was reading that over three millions of us carry concealed every day. I was disappointed that it is wasn’t more, but you have to start somewhere.

Elizabeth- Wait your turn. Know how fast you are, and then defend yourself.

Rob- How do people practice to draw a loaded gun.

Elizabeth- Dry practice. (What’s that?)

Get your permit.  Carry your gun.

Exit-  Rob- That wraps up this episode. Elizabeth, thank you for helping me today.  Where can our listeners learn more about you?

Elizabeth- I instruct in Colorado Springs.  I teach small classes at my private range in Black Forest.  Students can contact me at Colorado Boots Firearms Instruction.

Rob- Our listeners can share their thoughts with us by leaving a message on the podcast facebook page.  

We share this podcast with you for free.  Please share it with a friend and give us a rating on I-Tunes and Stitcher.  We’re also available on Google Play Music.

Rob- I’m Rob Morse.  We’ll be back next week with more Self-Defense Gun Stories.

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Episode 76 with Elizabeth Hautman

Welcome to episode 76. Instructor Elizabeth Hautman joins us this week with three new self-defense stories. Were these gun owners lucky, or were they armed with tools and knowledge? How would you react in their situation? (17 minutes)

Rob- Introduction- I’m Rob Morse and welcome to episode 76 of Self-Defense Gun Stories.  This podcast is for people who think they might want a firearm.. and those who already have one.  We’re joined this week by self-defense instructor Elizabeth Hautman.  Hi, Elizabeth.

Elizabeth- Hi, Rob.  Hi to our new listeners, and welcome back to our regular listeners. We report and analyze three examples of armed civilian defense.  We hope you use these reports as part of your exercise program.. to use your imagination today so you can defend the people you care about tomorrow.  Please leave us a message on our facebook page with your questions or comments.

Elizabeth- Our first story took place last week in Tuolumne, California.

Rob- First story-  Do you have a gun nearby when you’re at home late at night?

You and your children are at home late at night.  The kids are in bed.  Someone is banging on your front door.  You don’t know him so you don’t open the door, you yell for him to go away.  He keeps pounding.  You move your children upstairs.  You grab your handgun and call the police.

The intruder breaks the door down and enters your home.  You fire one shot, and the intruder runs away.  Police find him at the party that was going on next door.  The local hospital treats him for a gunshot wound.  His blood alcohol level was at three times the legal limit.

Elizabeth- Good job parent!  I tell each student again and again, Don’t open the door!  How many home invasion stories start with,” the assailant pushed their way into the home.”  It is easy to push through a doorway that is open just an inch.  This intruder had to break the door down.  By not opening the door, the homeowner had time to secure the children, access his or her firearm, call the police and wait.  

Rob-  Say that list again slowly.  What do we want to do in what order, and why.

Elizabeth- Retreat, gun, phone, once the person was banging on the door….

Rob- what can we do before the wolf is at the door.

Elizabeth- We can talk about the door.  In this situation, the homeowner didn’t know the person breaking in, that means that maybe they could see out on the porch.  With new, inexpensive  technology you can see and talk to someone on your porch without opening the door.   One way to make the door more secure is to install 3 inch screws in the strike plate around the deadbolt and doorknob in your front, back and garage door.  That inexpensive upgrade will buy you time to make your family safe.  

Also, this homeowner had a plan, and waited.  That may be a difficult thing to do, but the homeowner saw to her children’s safety, and took action.

Rob- What do we need to tell the police?

Elizabeth- Practice that call.  Make a 911 call sheet.

Elizabeth- Our second story happened last week in Little Rock, Arkansas.

Rob- Second Story-  Are you armed in the grocery store parking lot?

It is a few minutes after 5pm, so it is light outside.  You’re done with your grocery shopping and head back to your car.  You step between the parked cars to unlock your car door.  A man walks between the cars and grabs your purse.  The strap is over your shoulder, and you hang on tight.  You reach inside your purse and pull out your gun.  Your attacker immediately turns and runs away.  You don’t shoot.  It takes you a minute to put away your gun, get your phone out of your purse, and then call the police.

Elizabeth-  Situation awareness is key.  Not paranoid but aware.  So perhaps if the victim had been more aware of her surroundings she could have escaped being targeted at all.  Bad guys look for victims who are unaware of their surroundings, distracted, not paying attention.  And it is easy to get distracted – cell phones, children, schedules, traffic and the list goes on.  But by bing in the present and aware of what is going on at that moment, we all are a bit safer.  Criminals look for the distracted victim.

Rob- Let’s say my gun is on my hip.  Someone grabbed my holster.  That makes it really hard to draw my gun.  It is even harder to get your gun from your purse if someone grabbed your purse.

Elizabeth-Rob, you are right, it can take me 5 minutes to extract a pen from the bottom of my purse, a firearm, when I am scared or struggling is worse, and time is what you don’t have a lot of if you are being attacked.  I prefer on body carry, for two reasons;  one, I can access my firearm more efficiently from my hip and two, if the bad guy wants my purse, he can have it and the $8.79 in the wallet.  I don’t want him to take my firearm.  If I can get away, without using my firearm, and only lose a purse, I am lucky!

Lastly, my firearm is to protect my life, or the life of another innocent person who is in immediate danger.  Not to protect my “stuff.”  So if my stuff goes away – the purse, my wallet, watch, jewelry, no big deal.  I’m not happy about it, but if I can escape and not use my firearm, that is the BEST result.  

Rob- Does that surprise your students?

Elizabeth- Our third story happened last week in outside Saint Paul, Minnesota.

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Rob- Third story- Are you armed when you’re at work?  

You opened the cell phone store.  Now it is 11 am and you’re eager to take a lunch break.  Two men wait their turn.  As you finish with the customer in front of them, one of the men pulls out a gun and tells you to move to the back of the store.  You step back between the counters.  The two thieves follow you into the back room.  You draw your own handgun and shoot the armed robber nearest to you.  You shoot him several times until he drops his gun.  Then you point your gun at the other robber, but he has run away.

Now you call police..or try to.  It is hard to talk because you’re so excited.

The police said your attacker was a convicted felon with a long list of convictions.  How did your attacker get a gun anyway?

Elizabeth-  Just another example of ineffective gun laws.  I teach about the laws in Colorado, and my students, who follow the rules take careful notes and are law abiding citizens.  Criminals don’t do that!  They do not follow firearms laws, they do not get background checks, they do what they want regardless of the law.  

 

Elizabeth- And the clerk, is described as excited – exactly!  That is why I teach my students to practice and practice so your moves rely on muscle memory, not your thinking brain.

Rob- How do I get to have that presence of mind?

Elizabeth- If you have ever had to dial 911 when someone isn’t breathing, you may know what level of stress and emergency like that can bring on.  Using your firearm is just like that.   I keep my home address by my landline at home, so if anyone ever has to dial 911, they can READ the address, not just recite it from memory.  

Elizabeth-  The clerk had a series of routine actions.

Exit-  Rob- That wraps up this episode. Elizabeth, thank you for helping me today.  Where can our listeners learn more about you?

Elizabeth- I instruct in Colorado Springs.  I teach small classes at my private range in Black Forest.  Students can contact me at Colorado Boots Firearms Instruction.

Rob- Our listeners can share their thoughts with us by leaving a message on the podcast facebook page.  

Elizabeth-   If you liked this show, then you’ll like the other podcasts on the Self-defense radio network.  

We share this podcast with you for free.  Please share it with a friend and give us a rating on I-Tunes and Stitcher.  We’re also available on Google Play Music.

Rob- I’m Rob Morse.  We’ll be back next week with more Self-Defense Gun Stories.

Episode 67 with Elizabeth Hautman

Welcome to episode 67 of Self-Defense Gun Stories. Self-defense instructor Elizabeth Hautman joins us this week. We report and analyze examples of armed civilian defense. Were these gun owners lucky, or were they prepared? How would you do in their situation? (17 minutes )

Rob- Introduction- I’m Rob Morse and welcome to episode 67 of Self-Defense Gun Stories.  This podcast is for people who think they might want a firearm.. and those who already have one.  We’re joined this week by self-defense instructor Elizabeth Hautman.  Hello, again, Elizabeth.  I know you’ve been busy.

 

Elizabeth- Lots of teaching..and constitution camp.  Hi to our new listeners, and welcome back to our regular listeners. We report and analyze three examples of armed civilian defense.  We hope you use these reports to exercise your imagination today so you can defend the people you care about tomorrow.  Please leave us a message on our facebook page with your questions or comments.

Rob- One of our listeners sent us a message.  Clayton said, “I think you should consider doing a long episode, maybe 1 out of every 4 or so. You could be more casual and have more conversation with the guest instructor. As a listener, I would love that.”

Rob- Clayton, I’ll ask the instructors.  Some would like it, and some are busy already and I’m lucky to get each minute with them.

Elizabeth- Our first story took place last week in Jacksonville, Florida.

Rob- First story-  Are you armed at home early in the morning?

You’re asleep in your apartment.  Your first sign of trouble is a crash of breaking glass.  Someone is breaking through the window at the back of your apartment..at 6 in the morning.  You keep your gun nearby because you were worried about a break in.  You grab your gun.  You see a man standing in your living room.  He sees you and moves toward you.  You fire three times and the man backs up toward the window.  You back up toward your room.  You grab your phone and call police.

You know your attacker.  He is your ex-boyfriend.  Last year he beat you and strangled you until you passed out.  You bought a gun..and learned how to use it.  You also moved to a new address, but tonight he found you.

Elizabeth- This victim was at a far higher risk than most people.  She recognized that fact and acted, so good for her.  She moved to a new address.  She might have changed jobs.  She also got a gun and learned how to use it.  She had her gun available when she needed it.  That saved her life.

Rob-  I’ve heard that you’re more likely to be involved in a gunfight if you have a gun at home.

Elizabeth- That phrase is designed to scare little old ladies who live in safe situations in the suburbs so they won’t buy a gun.  It isn’t the gun that causes the problems; its us.  We’re not all the same.  Poor people in our inner cities are more likely to be victims than rich people in gated communities.  A victim of domestic violence faces higher risks.  Of course these people are more likely to be attacked.  They choose to have guns in their home because they need one to defend themselves.

Rob- What else did you notice in this story.

Elizabeth-  A reporter wouldn’t mention it, but the victim needs a flashlight.

Rob-  A flashlight?

Elizabeth- You need to see what is going on.  Was this a drunk neighbor that was confused and broke into your house..or was it a serial abuser?  You need to know.  You also have to know how to call the police, but we’ll talk about that in our next story.

Rob- How can we get a gun quickly, but still have it secured when we’re asleep?

Elizabeth- She needed the gun in a hurry.

Lock your doors. She could have had an alarm. Quick access safe. But most of all, she had a plan of action.

Rob- Are you ready to move on?

Elizabeth- Our second story happened last week in Spring, Texas.

Rob- Second Story-  Are you armed when you meet to sell a cell phone?   

You’re selling your phone on Craigslist.  It’s early in the evening when you agree to meet.  You pick a well lit public place to meet the buyer.  You arrive on time, and so does the buyer.  You both get out of your cars.  The buyer has a young man with him.  He asks to see the phone.  You reach for your pocket, and then the young man reaches for his pocket and pulls out a gun..that is soon pointed at you.  They demand your money and your phones.  You put them on the ground and back away.  Then they say they want anything you have in your car.  You walk around your car..and pull your gun from the center console.  You shoot the closest of the two robbers twice in the stomach.  The young thug with a gun runs.  You pick up your phones and call police.  They transport the wounded robber, and arrest the younger gunman as well.  You’re not hurt.

Elizabeth- On body carry

Rob- Is this a texas thing?  You can carry in your car without a permit.  Maybe he didn’t have his license.

Elizabeth-  Get your license.  Yes it is a pain, but do it.  This man could have been killed while his gun was 10 feet away.    The robbers let him go to his car and that saved his life.  He was lucky rather than smart.

Rob- It sounds like he moved to get his car between himself and the robbers.

Elizabeth- That was a good move.   He also acted decisively once he had his gun.  There is a time to talk and a time to use lethal force to defend your life.  Real life isn’t the movies.  Don’t talk when your life is at risk.  That is the time to stop the threat.

Rob- Do your students think that just having a gun will protect them?

Elizabeth- Some start that way..for a while.

Rob- you said you wanted to talk about the phone call.

Juliana- Yes. The victim also called police.  Before you do that, you don’t have to stand next to the victim while you’re holding your gun.  Get to a safe place.  Put your gun away.

Here is a hint about why on-body carry is such a good idea.  You not only have a gun with you, you have a place to put your gun away when you’re done.  Then you make the call so you can identify yourself as the victim.  Location, police and medical help, your name and description.  Practice that.

Rob- Do you have a training partner?

Elizabeth- Our third story happened last week in  Downey, California.

 

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Rob- Third story- Are you armed at your automobile audio shop in the evening?  

You’re working late at your car audio and alarm store.  Three men enter your shop.  Since people often leave their cars with you, that isn’t much of a surprise.  Two of the men are in their 30’s and one is a little younger.  You’re surprised when all of them draw handguns and say to hand over your money.  You walk toward the cash register, and grab your firearm.  News reports don’t say if your gun is behind the counter or on your body.

You shoot all three robbers..several times.  One of them manages to stumble away.  You retreat to the back of your shop and call police.

The escaping robber begs motorists for a ride to the hospital where he is arrested.  Police tell you the two other robbers died on your shop floor.

Elizabeth-  This man thought about the attack before it happened.  There were other robberies in the area.  He had a plan.  He knew he’d defend himself if he saw a lethal threat.  He did.

Rob- The victim was outnumbered.  How did he survive uninjured?

Elizabeth-  He waited until he saw an advantage and then he acted quickly and violently.  I have to call it violent because he went from looking like a willing victim to a violent defender in a fraction of a second.

Rob- That takes practice.

Elizabeth-  We’re practicing now.  He saw that his life was at risk.  He chose his moment and then he put his plan into place.  His plan was to shoot his attackers and survive.

Rob- It is a simple plan, but it takes some getting used to.

Elizabeth- It really does take some getting used to, but today we have time.  A new gun owner has to get there step by step.  They learn to safely handle a gun.  They learn to shoot accurately.  They learn to shoot quickly.  They learn to carry their gun.  Finally, they learn how to recognize a dangerous situation.  Each one of those is a manageable step.

Rob- So they don’t do it all in a single day in a single class?

Elizabeth- The victim also has to deal with southern California police.  He has to know what to say because every word can be used against him in court.

Rob- It doesn’t say if he had video security in his shop.

Elizabeth- I looked for that too.  That helps you win the second battle.

Rob- What is the second fight?

Elizabeth- You need to prove that you’re a good guy and acted responsibly.  If the evidence is clear enough then you won’t go to court.  Good guys want to be able to show what they did.

Rob- The news article said there were other robberies in the area.  I hope he had the video.

Exit- Rob- That wraps up this episode. Elizabeth, thank you for helping me today.  Where can our listeners learn more about you?

Elizabeth- I instruct in Colorado Springs.  I teach small classes at my private range in Black Forest.  Students can contact me at Colorado Boots Firearms Instruction.

Rob- Our listeners can share their thoughts with us by leaving a message on the podcast facebook page.  

Elizabeth-  If you liked this show, then you’ll like the other podcasts on the Self-defense radio network.  We create this podcast under a creative commons license, so please share it with a friend, and give us a rating on I-Tunes.

Rob- We’re now on itunes, Stitcher, and Google Play.

I’m Rob Morse.  We’ll be back next week with more Self-Defense Gun Stories.

 

Episode 60 with Elizabeth Hautman

Welcome to episode 60 of Self-Defense Gun Stories. Firearms instructor Elizabeth Hautman joins us this week. Together, we report and analyze examples of armed civilian defense. Were these gun owners lucky, or were they prepared? How would you do in their situation?

Introduction- Rob- I’m Rob Morse, and welcome to episode 60 of Self-Defense Gun Stories.  This podcast is for people who think they might want a gun for self-defense, and those who already have one.  We’re joined this week by self-defense instructor Elizabeth Hautman.

Hi, Elizabeth.  You’ve been busy.

Elizabeth- Hi, Rob.  

Appleseed.  Teaching new firearms students.

Hi to our new listeners, and welcome back to our regular listeners. We report and analyze three examples of armed civilian defense.  We hope you use these reports as part of your exercise program.. to exercise your imagination today so you can defend the people you care about tomorrow.  Please leave us a message on our facebook page with your questions or comments.

Elizabeth- Our first story took place last week near Palm Beach, Florida

Rob- First story-  Are you armed at home?  Your teenage son and his friends are watching TV and playing video games late at night.  They hear a knock on the door.  They open the front door to see who it is.  Two armed men push their way into your home.  One of the teenagers runs the the bathroom and slams the door behind him.  The robbers shoot through the bathroom door.

You hear the shouts, the slams and the gunfire.  You walk out of the master bedroom with your handgun drawn.  You fire at the armed intruders.  They run from the apartment.

One of your son’s friends was shot in the abdomen.  You call police and emergency medical services.  The medics take the teenager to the hospital.  While he is at the hospital, into the emergency room walks the intruder you shot.  Police arrest both intruders.

Elizabeth-   don’t open the door, but the intruders showed up at the hospital, maybe the kids at your home were hanging around with the wrong crowd.  

Rob-  Where did the gun come from?  How was the gun stored?

Elizabeth-  do your kids know what to do if there is an intruder?  Practice a plan, like a fire drill   

Rob-  You talk about that with your students?

Elizabeth- Our second story happened last week in Clarksburg, West Virginia.

Rob- Second Story-  Are you armed at work late at night?  You work as a night clerk at the Sutton Inn.  You help travelers with what they need.  A clean place to sleep.  Sometimes they need a toothbrush if they forgot something at home.  It’s been quiet this morning until a stranger walks through the doors.  He’s in his mid-twenties, wearing a black hoodie, jeans with sequins and wearing earrings.  His hands are in front of his face.  The stranger says, “Don’t make me pull my piece.  Just give me the money.”  You present your firearm and point it at the robber’s chest.  The robber turns and runs before you can pull the trigger.  You come around the counter, but don’t follow the robber outside.  Then you remember to call the police.  You tell police which way the robber ran.  The police arrest the robber at a nearby motel.  The charges filed against your attacker carry a 10 year minimum sentence.

Elizabeth- I wonder where the clerk had the gun?  Holster, pocket, a mount under the counter, in a drawer?  On body is best,  

Rob- Out of reach is out if use.

Elizabeth-

Rob- Was the clerk justified to pull the trigger? Yes he was justified, and he didn’t need to.

Elizabeth-  the clerk was well trained and exercised great self control.  In that the clerk had the gun easy to draw, the clerk had training.  I tell my students when they are in fear of an innocent person going to the morgue or the hospital, that is when to pull the trigger.  Not if someone is on your porch, or running away.

Elizabeth- Our third story happened last week in Grady, Oklahoma.

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Rob- Third story-  Are you armed when you’re at home?  You asked the judge for a protective order so your ex-boyfriend would leave you alone. The judge gave you the order, and said there was to be no contact between you and your ex-boyfriend.  Now your ex is calling again.  He wants the title to the car.  He demands you give him your credit card.  You told him to go away.  He threatened to kill you.  A neighbor called the police to say they saw him near your house.

Now he’s outside.  You grab your rifle, walk out on the porch and tell him to leave.  He starts to say something, but changes his mind and runs back to his car when he hears the sirens on the police cars.  The cops were right behind him as he drives away.  The police arrest him and put him in jail.

Rob- Tell me about opening the door.

Elizabeth- she didn’t think it through.

Elizabeth-  Good that the neighbors know about your problem.  They were the first to call the police.  I have given this advice to some of my students who may have been facing the same situation.  

Elizabeth-  Keep the door between you and trouble.  Always.  Why she grabbed her rifle and went outside doesn’t make sense.  I do get it.  You want him to go away, but in the cases we are often dealing with crazy.  It also builds the victim’s case if the bad guy has to break into the domicile.

Exit-  Rob- That wraps up this episode. Elizabeth, thank you for helping me today.  Where can our listeners learn more about you?

Elizabeth- I instruct in Colorado Springs.  I teach small classes at my private range in Black Forest.  Students can contact me at Colorado Boots Firearms Instruction.

Rob- Our listeners can share their thoughts with us by leaving a message on the podcast facebook page.  

Elizabeth-  If you liked this show, then you’ll like the other podcasts on the Self-defense radio network.  We create this podcast under a creative commons license, so please share them with a friend, and give us a rating on I-Tunes.

Rob- I’m Rob Morse.  We’ll be back next week with more Self-Defense Gun Stories.

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Episode 52 with Elizabeth Hautman

Welcome to episode 52 of Self-Defense Gun Stories. Firearms instructor Elizabeth Hautman joins us this week. We report and analyze examples of armed civilian defense. Were these gun owners lucky, or were they prepared?

 

Introduction- Rob- Welcome to episode 52 of Self-Defense Gun Stories.  This show is for people who think they might want a firearm for self-defense, and those who already have one.  I’m Rob Morse and we’re joined this week by self-defense instructor Elizabeth Hautman.

Hi, Elizabeth.  How have you been?

Elizabeth- Hi, Rob. Happy birthday to the Self-Defense Gun Stories Podcast.  We’re a year old.

Rob- Thank you. And thank you to our listeners.

Elizabeth-  Let’s not forget them.  Hi to our new listeners, and welcome back to our regular listeners. We report and analyze three examples of armed civilian defense each week.  I hope we inspire you to defend the people you care about.  If you have questions or want to hear more, then please leave us a message on our facebook page.

Elizabeth- Rob, I want you to take this story first, because I have children at home.  Our first story took place this month in Oklahoma.

Rob- First story- Are you armed when you’re at home?  

You’re at home with your children on a Friday afternoon.  You hear sounds coming from the other end of the house.  That wasn’t the kids roughhousing.  Your daughter shouts, “Mom, someone is trying to open the front door.”  You go look, and by the time you get there, the visitor is gone.  Then you hear the sound of breaking glass.  Someone is breaking into your house through your children’s bedroom.  You grab your gun and walk towards the noise.  The kids are out of their room, but a stranger is climbing in through the broken window.

You yell, and then you shoot.  The female intruder runs away, and you call police.

The intruder was cut by the broken glass.  She tried to break into several other houses.  She also tried to break INTO a police car.  She was arrested by the Tulsa police, booked on first-degree burglary, attempted larceny of a vehicle, two counts of possession of a controlled drug and for resisting arrest.  The intruder was taken for medical treatment and then to jail.

Elizabeth-   There are quite a few lessons with this story.  Good job mom/dad for teaching the kids to notice the door issues and report the problem.  The kiddos didn’t open the door – never open the door!  That is a tough lesson for adults as well.  I can communicate through my door, and with the new doorbell technology, I can talk through that.  No need to open the door.

Rob- Good job kids.

Elizabeth-   Good job mom for recognizing the threat and retrieving her firearm.  I would always hope there is time to call the police before you shoot, but that is unrealistic at best.  Maybe if the kids are old enough, they could be on the phone.  Mom must have been hustling too!  She kept it together, because, I know, when my kids are in danger, the stress level and pressure will increase – calm heads must prevail.

Rob- How easy is it for new students to realize that they have a breakin?

Elizabeth- about 80 percent of my students are moms and new moms.  The question comes up again and again, will I have time to get my gun.  I have two answers.  This may sound a like a little much for people new to firearms, but the best place for me to keep my firearm, away from kids and always ready, is on my body.  It is in a secure holster and ready in 2 seconds.  But if that is not your style, and for many it isn’t, a safe, close at hand – like the one in my friend’s kitchen, is a good option as well.  

As a firearms owner it is my responsibility to keep my guns out of the hand of unauthorized people – my kids.  So yes there is a compromise, but the safe is easy open and will still keep my firearm close.

Lastly –  the character of the lady breaking in.  When I have students explain how racking the slide of a shotgun would scare away a criminal – they assume the criminal is of sound mind. This story states that the mom was screaming at the lady coming through the window before she fired her gun.  Any sane person would have high tailed it back out the window with the threat of being shot – this illustrates how deranged, or drugged up an intruder may be.  The intruder went on to even try to break into a police car.  The epitome of crazy.  You can never assume the intruder will think like you do.

Rob- 80 percent of criminals are high on drugs when they attack someone or break in.

Elizabeth- Our second story took place in Texas.

Second Story-  Are you armed at work?  You own a small barbeque restaurant in Houston Texas.  You’re 70 years old, and you’ve run J & S  Jeff’s Kitchen for a while.  It is late Saturday night.  You’ve closed up the place and are walking to your car to drive home home.  Two young men jump out from behind the dumpster and move toward you.  One of them has a gun out and he is pointing it at you.  They yell at you.  You know the drill.  You’ve been robbed before.  That is why you have a gun in your pocket tonight.

You didn’t see the thugs coming out of the darkness.  Now the darkness works to your advantage.  You draw your pistol and fire at the armed robber nearest to you.  He falls to the pavement.  You move and look for his partner.  The other robber is already running away.

It is hard to talk, but you call the police and try to explain what happened.

The police and EMTs arrive.  They take the wounded robber to the hospital where he died.  The police are looking for his partner.

Darkness, physical response

Elizabeth- The restaurant owner had a plan.  It is better to recognize the problem quickly so you can shoot slowly and accurately.  This older man did exactly that.  He had worked out his shoot and move strategy beforehand.

Rob- What can I do to recognize a robbery without on-the-job experience of being robbed?

Elizabeth-  You need to think about it ahead of time, and have a plan.

Rob- Give me an example.  What would I think, and what would I want to do?

Elizabeth- If I see people come out of the dark towards me with a gun, I’ll step to the side, draw my firearm, and defend myself.  Get off the line.  Keep moving, keep looking for bad guy number 2 or 3. Keep looking for cover, or an escape.

You don’t have to have a fire in your home to practice a fire drill – it just takes practice and FORETHOUGHT.  The same with a violent encounter.  Discuss with your spouse – what you might do if you hear an intruder.  Who goes to the kids, who calls the police, who retrieves the firearm.  Discuss with your co-workers – who leaves last, who will walk to the car – do you all leave together?  Work out a safety plan in advance.

Rob- The store owner was robbed at night.. Again.

Elizabeth- We can’t see well in the dark.  But this is important, neither can the criminals.  Action beats reaction.  That is why you need a plan.  A plan lets you take action when your brain locks up.  The animal instincts can kick in and should be expected if you are in fear for your life.  Training and practice can help anyone overcome that fearful paralysis.  The plan is the key.

It is hard for us to identify what is happening in the dark.  It is also hard for the criminals to recognize that their intended victim is defending himself.  Criminals pick their victims because they think they WON’T/CAN’T defend themselves.  Always be ready.  This BBQ owner was, and he had a strategy for survival.  I’m sure he knew the terrain better than the assailants in the dark as well – his advantage.

Local ranges often have simulators.

Another thought might have been to install lights.  Although the previous story illustrated that attackers don’t think like we do, and the light may not have deterred them, but lights help.  

It was also great that the restaurant owner called 911-  I recommend that if you ever get into a situation like this, get to safety, check to see if you are hurt, then call 911.  Remember you are the victim! You have been attacked and you defended yourself.  Give your statement to the police ONLY with your ATTORNEY present!

Elizabeth- Our third story took place in Illinois.

Please support Buckeye Firearms Foundation at https://www.buckeyefirearmsfoundation.org/

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Third story- Rob- Are you armed when you’re in your car?

You’re driving a friend to her home.  You are 70 years old, and at your age, lots of your friends don’t drive any more.  It is harder to drive at night, but this is a sunny day at 10 in the morning.  Traffic isn’t too bad in Venice, Illinois, just across the river from Saint Louis, Missouri.  You arrive at your destination and stop to say goodby.

A car pulls up next to you.  They ask for directions.  In a moment, the passenger in the other car has a gun out and pointed at you.  He wants you to get out of your car.

You’re armed.  You’re also a vietnam veteran, so you go to work.  You wait for the right moment, and shoot the armed robber closest to you.  You also shoot the robber behind the wheel.  Then you and your passenger move to safety and call police.

The armed robber died at the scene.  The wounded driver was taken to the hospital.  Police told you that the two thugs had probably robbed another driver that morning.  They were wanted for questioning in as many as 20 robberies last year.  Both robbers had long criminal records.

Elizabeth-  Criminals look for older people to rob.  They always look for the easy target.  The distracted mom, the dreamy teen or the old person.  Gray hair can make you a target.  The best way to keep my students safe is to teach them to be aware of their surroundings and not act like a target.  Walk with a purpose, make eye contact, keep your phone in your pocket, look behind you when you leave a store.  These are habits that could make the difference between you being a victim or not.

Rob- So it wasn’t an accident that they chose two older people?

Elizabeth-??  Nope, and this older man had a plan.  Over the years, he had kept his skills sharp, and was alert!  I tell my students to be aware, not paranoid, but know where the exits are, pay attention to the people around you.  This veteran was aware and recognized the threat from the first question – asking for directions.  The questions close the space, can distract you and the excuse of asking a question brought the bad guy right up to the car.  This veteran was not fooled and was ready.

Rob- Broad daylight

Elizabeth-  Daylight, but the thieves couldn’t see into the car.  Think about it – it is difficult to see into a vehicle unless you are right up close.  Also, just because it is daytime, never become complacent.  Bad things happen anytime of day.

Rob- Two criminals versus two victims.

Elizabeth-   Yes there is safety in numbers, and there were two attackers.  Sometimes there are more.  But you can practice and train for an event like this.  Get with an instructor, go through possible scenarios, develop your defensive skills.  

Exit-  Rob- That wraps up this episode. Elizabeth, thank you for helping me today.  Where can our listeners learn more about you?

Elizabeth- I instruct in Colorado Springs.  I teach small classes at my private range in Black Forest.  Students can contact me at Colorado Boots Firearms Instruction.

Rob- Our listeners can share their thoughts with us by leaving a message on the podcast facebook page.  

Elizabeth-  If you liked this show, then you’ll like the other podcasts on the Self-defense radio network.  We create this podcast under a creative commons license, so please share it with a friend, and give us a rating on I-Tunes.

Rob- I’m Rob Morse.  We’ll be back next week with more Self-Defense Gun Stories.

Episode 43 with Elizabeth Hautman

Welcome to episode 43 of Self-Defense Gun Stories. We report and analyze examples of armed civilian defense each week. Firearms instructor Elizabeth Hautman joins us this week.

Introduction- Rob- Welcome to episode 43 of Self-Defense Gun Stories.  This podcast is a proud part of the Self-Defense Radio Network.  I’m Rob Morse and we’re joined this week by self-defense instructor Elizabeth Hautman.   This is our first episode together, so please tell our listeners a little bit about you.

Elizabeth- Hi, Rob.  Thank you so much for having me.  I am a mom of two wonderful young men.  I love teaching firearms safety and concealed carry classes in Colorado Springs.  I designed my classes for new and timid shooters.  We increase their comfort and confidence with firearms in a few hours.

Rob- Welcome to the podcast.  You also worked with the NRA in your state.  Thank you for that.

Elizabeth- You’re welcome.  I listened to the podcast, and now I get to contribute.  Hi to our new listeners, and welcome back to our regular listeners. We report and analyze examples of armed civilian defense each week.  We bring you the news you don’t hear anywhere else, and I hope we inspire you to defend the people you care about.  If you have questions or want to hear more, then please leave us a message on our facebook page.

Elizabeth- Our first story took place this month in Florida.

Rob- First story- Are you armed in the bathroom?  A man was visiting his girlfriend’s apartment in Jacksonville, Florida.  He went the the bathroom at 2:30 in the morning when the woman’s ex-boyfriend decided to force open the front door.  The current boyfriend opened the bathroom door and saw the ex pointing a gun at his girlfriend.  The intruder threatened to kill the woman.  The boyfriend fired his handgun several times.  The armed intruder fled the scene and ran into his ex-girlfriend’s car as he left.

Police found him driving slowly and pulled him over.  The wounded robber was taken to the hospital for treatment and charged with armed burglary and aggravated assault.

Elizabeth- Kudos to the boyfriend in the bathroom.  He was ready for anything.  I would think he heard a ruckus and came to his girlfriend’s aid.  He assessed the deadly threat and took action.   In an extremely, high stress, dangerous situation, a defender needs to understand that their body may not react like it might on a calm day on the range.  It takes practice and repetition to be an effective protector and counteract your body’s natural fear reaction.

Rob-  What happens during that stressful situation, and when do you tell our students about that reaction?

Elizabeth – There are many things that may happen to your body, including loss of fine motor control and time distortion.  I fully cover your body’s reaction and how to counteract that in my Conceal Carry Class.  

Elizabeth-   When the threat ended, the boyfriend ceased firing.  That is another great point from this story.  He let the bad guy “get away.”  He defended himself and girlfriend and when the bad guy “fled the scene,” he let the police take over.  The boyfriend understood his responsibility as a firearms owner.

Rob- What difference does training make?

Elizabeth – Training is everything.  It is about muscle memory it’s about mental focus.  When you are driving on ice and your car starts to spin, turning into the spin has to be automatic, there isn’t time to figure it out.  Just like in a defensive situation, manipulating your firearm, aiming, firing and assessing when the threat has ended has to be automatic.   Keeping your wits about you is the difference good practice can make.

Elizabeth- There is nothing in this article that states that the good guy was a  Concealed Carry Permit holder.   I work with many people who may never carry, so they say they don’t need the Conceal Carry Class.  It is those type of students who may need training the most.  When you use your firearm, at home OR in public, just like when you sit in the driver’s seat of the car, you must know the “rules of the road.”  On more than one occasion, a homeowner with a gun, at home, broke the rules and got in trouble.  So it is important whether you carry outside the home or not, to learn from other people’s mistakes.  We train for the possibility not the probability of a violent encounter.

Rob- who called the police, and what did they tell them?

Elizabeth – ALWAYS call the police when you draw your firearm.  Victims call the police, bad guys don’t.  Give 911 a description of the bad guys and let them do their job.

Elizabeth- Our second story took place in Indiana.

Rob- Second Story- Are you armed when you meet to complete a deal online?  We conduct commerce by e-mail and voice using our phones.  A man was lured to a home early Sunday morning.  It isn’t clear if the intended victim was an Uber driver, a Waiter delivery person, or if he responded to an online advertisement.  It is clear that a 15 year old boy pulled a gun when the unsuspecting visitor walked up to the door of this Indianapolis home.  The attacker and his friends then began to search the victim and empty his pockets.  They found more than they expected.

The intended victim was armed.  He drew his own gun and shot his attacker.  The victim ran to a safe location, and called police.  The wounded attacker was transported to a local hospital where he died.  The police interviewed the victim and released him.

Elizabeth-   First –  If you feel the situation you are walking into is shady, or too good to be true, say no.  No job is worth the risk. Trust and listen to that little voice inside, your intuition, your instinct.  

Rob-   But they ordered a pizza?

Elizabeth-  Second, bring a friend and meet in a public place, in daylight hours.  In my town, the police station has a special parking area for e commerce trade.  All of your transactions can be completed under the cameras of the police station.

Rob- I like that idea.  You mentioned concealed carry earlier.  Tell me more about that.

Elizabeth- My students learn what to do and how to do it.  That means they can defend themselves quickly and accurately.  The first time they present their firearm from a holster it may take us a few minutes.  Later, they will do it in two seconds.  

Rob- That is a huge improvement.

Elizabeth- it is, but they have to have those skills before they need them.  There isn’t time for “on the job training” in self-defense.

Elizabeth- Lastly, I’m asking our listeners the same thing I ask my students.  Please carry, be ready, and have a plan.  This man was not going to be a victim and was prepared to defend his life.  

Elizabeth- Our third story took place in California.

Become a member of ACLDN and use the promotion code “Paul” at https://armedcitizensnetwork.org/

Rob- Third story- Are you armed at work?  A convenience store clerk couldn’t believe his eyes. This happened in Fresno, California, and the clerk saw a man and a woman enter the store at 2 in the morning.  The man pulled a rifle from behind his coat and demanded money.  The clerk drew his gun and fired.  The thieves ran.  The clerk called police who looked at the surveillance video.  Door to door, the robbers were in the store less than eight seconds.

That isn’t a lot of time.

Elizabeth-  Eight seconds. Wow,  a fast draw from concealed on your body is less than 2 seconds.  It takes me 60 seconds just to find my keys in my purse.  It took us longer than that to describe the story.  Look at what the clerk did here.  To be aware enough to quickly recognize a threat, and defend yourself took courage and planning.  The clerk thought about this before it happened.

Rob-  You have to think ahead, just as you have to think ahead when you arrive at your car and look for your keys.  Otherwise you fumble around as you put away your phone.

Elizabeth-   That is us.  I am often asked by students if they should carry a loaded gun with a round in the chamber.

Rob- That means they are carrying a gun that is ready to fire?

Elizabeth- Right.  The gun is ready to do work.  I tell them “Yes, when you are confident enough to do it.”  The reason is time.  This lethal encounter took 8 seconds door to door and you don’t have an extra 1.5 seconds to put that round in the chamber.  Time is what you need in a defensive situation, and it is most often what you have least of.  

Rob- Time to think, or time to act?

Elizabeth-  You don’t have time for anything except to save your life right now.

Rob- How do your students react when you tell them they can save their lives?

Elizabeth- They don’t say a lot, but it shows on their faces.

Rob- What do their expressions tell you?

Elizabeth- Everything they ever learned watching television was incorrect, they realize that, “I am my own first responder!”

Elizabeth- Another question I am asked by students is ‘What size firearm should I buy?’ Well in this case, whatever pistol you brought to work that day, that gun was up against a rifle.  I recommend that the best firearm for you is the one you are will carry ALL THE TIME and are comfortable shooting accurately.  It doesn’t sound like the bad guys even got off a shot thanks to the quick thinking clerk.  

Rob- What mistakes do students make when they buy their first gun?  (Tell me about new gun owners who bought the wrong gun for them, too heavy to carry, too large to conceal, too small to handle, to powerful for its size)

Elizabeth-  Maybe because I grew up with a family in the automobile business, I use a lot of car analogies, everyone wants to buy a Large Suburban that  is safe, which gets the gas mileage of a Prius, and costs what a 1998 Camry does.  It is the same with firearms.  

Elizabeth- You have to choose a firearm that fits your hand, with the most stopping power, that you are willing to carry.  Many student’s first gun, just plain doesn’t fit their hands, but .  smaller size doesn’t compute to less recoil either.  I encourage my students to try a couple of firearms, take a class and evaluate how they are going to carry in the future.  And, I joke that the first gun, may not be the last. So don’t get caught up in over thinking the purchase, just get the gun and practice.

Exit-  Rob- That wraps up this episode. Elizabeth Hautman, thank you for helping me today.  Where can our listeners find out more about you?

Elizabeth- I instruct in Colorado Springs.  I teach small classes at my private range in Black Forest.  Students can contact me at Colorado Boots Firearms Instruction.

Rob- The link is in our show notes.  Our listeners can share their thoughts with us by leaving a message on the podcast facebook page.  

Elizabeth- If these examples inspired you, then please share them with a friend.  Give us a rating on I-Tunes.

I’m Rob Morse.  Please join us next week for more Self-Defense Gun Stories.

Listen to Gun Freedom Radio at http://gunfreedomradio.com