Episode 33 with Tatiana Whitlock

Welcome to episode 33 of Self-Defense Gun Stories. We report and analyze examples of armed civilian defense each week.

Introduction- Rob- Welcome to episode 33 of Self-Defense Gun Stories.  This podcast is part of the Self-Defense Radio Network.  I’m Rob Morse and we’re joined this week by self-defense instructor Tatiana Whitlock.  How have you been, Tatiana? Tatiana Whitlock 2

Tatiana – Hi, Rob.  Hi to our new listeners, and welcome back to our regular listeners. Together, we report and analyze examples of armed civilian defense.  We inform you about the news, and I hope we inspire you to defend the people you care about.

Our first story took place this month in Texas.

Rob- First story-  Are you armed as you arrive home?  A couple drove to their Lubbock, Texas home late at night.  They pulled into their driveway.  An armed robber wearing a ski mask pointed a gun at the driver and demanded that the couple get out of their car and hand over their money.  The passenger got the couple’s handgun and passed it to her husband behind the wheel.  The driver fired several times and hit the robber once in the leg.  The robber ran.  Police soon picked him up and took him to the hospital.  The victims were shaken, but unharmed.  The robber was released from the hospital and taken to jail.

Tatiana –Good thinking by the female gun owner.  On body is better.

Rob-  You don’t need to know that in order to get your ccw.  How would a gun owner learn to do that?

Tatiana – We’ve learned a lot from the police.  Now we have “vehicle combative” courses.  See Will Petty at 88 tactical in Texas.

Tatiana – Our second story took place in Ohio.

Second Story-  Are you armed at home in the middle of the night?  A 27 year old career criminal kicked in a front door in Columbus, Ohio.  We assume the homeowner was sleeping at 4:30 in the morning.  The 55 year old homeowner woke up, grabbed his gun, and confronted the intruder.  We don’t know what words or threats were exchanged, but we know the robber was shot.  He ran several blocks before he collapsed.  It appears that someone else reported the wounded robber before the homeowner made the call to police.

Police took the robber to the hospital and then to jail.

Tatiana-  Few of us are fast enough to win prizemoney.  I want you to dry practice with your phone so you win the race to the police.  That race can save you tens of thousands of dollars.. And the winning ticket is free with a little practice.

THE FIGHT ISN’T OVER JUST BECAUSE SHOTS WERE FIRED

Rapid access in a drowsy state.

Rob-  We don’t have time to cover everything you should say and not say to the police, but I’d like you to remind our listeners the first thing you have to tell 911.

Tatiana –  Here is the address.  I want police.  Answer simple questions, and put the phone down.

Rob- Where would a gun owner learn about his police interview?

Tatiana-  From an instructor.

Tatiana- Our third story took place in North Carolina.

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Third story- How quickly can you get your gun when you’re in the shower?  This homeowner wasn’t expecting trouble.  She’d just stepped out of the shower when she noticed that that one of her doors was wide open.  She saw an armed intruder in her home.  She retreated to her bedroom.  She grabbed a gun and locked the bedroom door.  Then she called police.  She was familiar with the 911 operators since her husband is the chief deputy in Union County just outside Charlotte, North Carolina.  

The two robbers ran as the police arrived.  Yes, they were armed, since they had also taken one of the deputy’s guns as they robbed the home.  Police caught the robbers after an overnight manhunt.

Tatiana- The homeowner said the doors were locked.  She heard her dog’s bark, and went to investigate.

Rob- I have not dry practiced from the nude and wet position.  Talk about that without loosing my PG rating.  (What class?  Need for practice to work out the details of sheltering in place in your home.)  We practice shooting standing up.  This gun owner needed practice shooting from behind a bed or bookcase.  How can we practice that?

Tatiana-  Distance is your friend.  Get behind a bookcase and as far away from the door as possible.  That probably means you’re hiding in a corner somewhere.

Rob- How do we do that?  Do we use a finger gun?  Blue gun?  Force on force with barrel block?

Tatiana- this is great practice because it fits your situation.

Exit-  Rob- That wraps up episode 33. Tatiana, thank you for helping me today.  Where can our listeners find out more about you?

Tatiana- They can contact me at http://tatianawhitlock.com/.  They can also find the courses we have available at Ann Arbor Arms Academy and Howells Gun Shop  My written articles are published at On Target Magazine.

Rob- Our listeners can share their thoughts with us by leaving a message on the podcast facebook page.  

Tatiana – If these examples inspired you, then please share them with a friend and give us a rating on I-Tunes.

I’m Rob Morse.  Please join us next week for more Self-Defense Gun Stories.

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Episode 21 with Tatiana Whitlock

Welcome to episode 21 of Self-Defense Gun Stories. We report and analyze examples of armed civilian defense each week.

Introduction- Rob- Welcome to episode 21 of Self-Defense Gun Stories.  I’m Rob Morse and I’m helped this week by instructor Tatiana Whitlock.

Tatiana Whitlock 2Tatiana-  Hi, Rob.  Hello new listeners, and our regular listeners. Each week we report and analyze examples of civilian defense.  Our first example took place last week in Atlanta, Georgia.

First story-  Rob- A father and son were working together in their jewelry store at about 2 pm..  A man walked into Cachet Fine Jewelry and said he wanted to make a 70 thousand dollars purchase.  The store owners were suspicious since the man didn’t look like the usual person who might buy jewelry of that price.  The store owners also recognized the man since he’d walked past the shop and looked inside several times earlier in the day.  No other customers were in the store when this customer pulled out a firearm, pointed it at the older store owner, and demanded the two store owners “Put all the jewelry in the bag.”  The son saw the robber’s gun pointed at his father.  The young man presented his own handgun and fired three times.  He struck the robber in the neck.  The robber ran outside the store before he collapsed on the street.  Witnesses said a woman was waiting in a getaway car.  EMTs transported the robber to a local hospital where he was pronounced dead.

Tatiana, how many of your students say they’ll get their firearm if they are threatened?

Tatiana-  The vast majority of students I work with are motivated to learn about firearms for personal protection. About 50% are in the beginning phases of learning what it would take technically, physically, and emotionally use a gun when threatened. The other 50% are actively carrying concealed every day and I am VERY encouraged to see that percentage growing with each new class.

Rob- What do you say to them to convince them to carry all the time?

Tatiana-  So many people have their permit, have invested in a firearm, but have yet to incorporate it into their daily lives. They are just not “COMFORTABLE” with the logistics and lifestyle changes that are necessary to make carrying a firearm as natural a part of your day-to-day routine as carrying your cell phone. Alternately, many people have a common “I don’t think I could do it. I would freeze!” attitude. But when asked if they would defend their child the answer is a resounding, “YES! WITHOUT HESITATION!” The key thing I tell students that is a mindset game changer for making carrying a gun ALL THE TIME a reality is: That YOU BELONG TO SOMEONE. You are a parent, a child, a friend, a spouse. You BELONG to them 100% of the time whether they are with you are not.  You are NOT expendable. You are NOT replaceable. For me? I am a mother of two beautiful children that are 6 and 7 years old. I belong to them.  NO ONE  has the right to take me from them, to take me from this world, but GOD.  Accept that fact and the value of your life, of your role in a much bigger picture, your will and drive to protect it is no longer in question. Suddenly the nuisance of holstering up every morning becomes a non-issue.

Rob- Which of your classes show a firearms owner how to present their pistol?

Tatiana-  While I love teaching the fundamentals, my passion is firearms use for self and home defense thus the majority of the classes I teach incorporate pistol presentation. Basic Handgun for Self Defense, Concealed Carry Essentials, Home Defense Handgun all work from the holster as well as real world “ready” positions. HOWEVER, presenting the pistol is NOT the first and MOST CRITICAL step. Learning Situational Awareness and threat assessment come first. WHAT IS HAPPENING? WHO IS MY PROBLEM?(Bad guy/good guy can you tell the difference) WHAT ARE MY OPTIONS?(avoid/evade/engage) WHERE IS THE SOLUTION (locate a way out/away, de-escalate if possible, engage IMMEDIATE LIFE THREATENING ATTACKER where and how). Training in REAL WORLD context means we MUST incorporate these elements into our pistol fundamentals training or these vital, life saving skills, will NOT be there when things go bad. And to hiccup when the moment presents itself, to fumble the draw when fractions of seconds count, could cost you or your loved one their life.

Rob- About how practice do these new gun owners need at home until their presentation starts to look smooth?

Tatiana-  Dry fire is the best way to keep your skills from getting “foggy”, slow, and to keep your movements from feeling clumsy.  The reps needed depend on how well the individual is training/practicing. Making your dryfire a weekly routine for about 10-15 minutes 2 to 3 times a week is idea. Otherwise, draw the blinds so you don’t panic the neighbors and in an ammo free living room, practice during the commercial breaks of your favorite show. The more GOOD, clean, and technically correct reps you can get in the better!

Our next story took place in Florida.

Second Story-  Rob- A Boynton Beach grandmother heard someone knock on her door just after noon.  She didn’t open the door.  She looked through the peephole but didn’t recognize the man.  He kept ringing the bell and baning on the door.  He came back a few minutes later wearing rubber gloves and with his shirt pulled over his head to hide his face.  Grandma ran to her bedroom and grabbed the gun she and her husband keep in a dresser beside their bed.  She stood near the door when three robbers broke down her front door and then walked into her bedroom.  Grandma had her gun pointed at the robber’s face as he came through the doorway.  She yelled.  He ran and his two partners followed him.

She does not know if the robbers were armed.  The two homeowners also intend to get a bigger gun and go to a shooting range to practice.

Tatiana, was grandma lucky?

Tatiana-  Yes, she is and she did exactly what she should have. She felt threatened, was clearly in a vulnerable state (age, physical fitness, etc.) and armed herself, took a position in a room she could control, announced herself and stood her ground. That being said a gun isn’t’ a magic charm. You need to know how to use it. These kinds of experiences are NOT the time to familiarize yourself with how your gun works. Those skills need to be there BEFORE the worst happens.

Rob- Was grandma’s life in danger and was she justified in shooting these three robbers?

Tatiana-  She only knew of one threatening person when she ran to her room. She was faced with THREE. Disparity of force would certainly apply here. She was hugely outnumbered. She felt threatened, acted appropriately, and her fears were confirmed. YES, she was absolutely in the right to fear for her life. Would they have covered their face if they thought no one was home? NO. They didn’t want to be recognizable upon entry so they had to know she was there. Not only did they enter masked, but they pursued her to her bedroom. Granny got her gun and I applaud her for her courage!

Our third story took place in South Carolina.

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Third story-  Rob- Most of us have heard about the mass murder at a Florida nightclub.  You might not have heard what happened last week at the Playoffz nightclub in Lyman, South Carolina.  Two men got into an argument at 3:30 in the morning.  The two men went outside, and one of them started shooting into the crowd standing outside the club.  The attacker hit three people.  He missed the fourth person, and this person standing in the crowd was armed.  He presented his handgun and shot back back.  His shots struck the attacker in the leg.  The attacker fell down and stopped shooting.

The scene was chaotic.  The police interviewed witnesses and had to look at surveillance video to sort the attacker from the defender.  The attacker was treated and booked into jail.  The three wounded victims are expected to recover, though some will require surgery.  The armed defender had a concealed carry permit and will not be charged.  The attacker was a convicted felon and had his gun illegally.

Tatiana, that is some shooting.

Tatiana- The response of the defending concealed carrier was absolutely appropriate. However, if we are making leg shots then we are falling victim to poor training and practice. Low left, anyone? A committed or inebriated/altered attacker WILL NOT STOP SHOOTING just because they have been hit once in the leg. Round placement to neutralize the attacking party does not happen in the extremities. He was lucky that  the leg shot was all it took and that there was not a continued exchange of gunfire. Next up: how many folks have trained to shoot their gun in low light or no light conditions? It’s a whole new world! How many folks have trained in a multi-day stress inducing program designed to push you to the point of what it would feel like to have to defend your life at 3am when you are physically tired in addition to being in the dark? Experiential training is a VITAL part of preparing yourself technically and mentally for this kind of VERY real and relevant type of attack.

Rob- How do we go out and keep ourselves safe at the same time?

Lastly, this is a GREAT example of how important it is especially given stories just like these to have a “Designated Carrier”. We have “Designated Drivers” to ensure those having a good time get home safely. Well folks, it’s time to seriously consider having that person also be a responsibly trained and legally armed Designated Carrier.
Exit- Rob- That wraps up this episode. Thank you for helping me today, Tatiana.  Where can our listeners learn more about you?

Tatiana- They can contact me at http://tatianawhitlock.com/, find availble courses at Ann Arbor Arms Academy, and at On Target Magazine and GunCulture.com

Rob- Our listeners can leave us a message on the podcast facebook page.

I’m Rob Morse.  Please join us next week for more Self-Defense Gun Stories.

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Episode 11 with Tatiana Whitlock

Welcome to episode 11 of Self-Defense Gun Stories. We report and analyze examples of armed civilian defense each week.

Introduction- Welcome to episode 11 of Self-Defense Gun Stories.  I’m Rob Morse with self-defense instructor Tatiana Whitlock.  Hi, Tatiana.  

Tatiana- Hi, Rob.  Together, we report and analyze examples of armed civilian defense each week.  

Tatiana- Our first example took place in Fresno, California.

First story-  That’s where a young man stopped at a gas station on his way to work.  He saw an older man throwing things at passing cars and shouting at other customers.  The crazy person started to approach his car and the younger man got out to ask him what was the matter.  That is when the young man saw that the crazy man had a knife.

Our driver got back in his car only seconds before the stranger stabbed the car door.  The young man presented his legally concealed firearm and pointed his gun at the attacker.  The attacker ran away.  The attacker and his knife were picked up by police a few hundred yards down the street.  He was arrested and tested for Methamphetamine.

Tatiana-

-Question of appropriate response?

-Should he have engaged at all? Should he have asked for store manager support?  **REMEMBER – ONLY LAW ENFORCEMENT IS DUTY BOUND TO ENGAGE** 

**BE MINDFUL OF GOOD SAMARITAN**

-Fortunately, he was able to get to his vehicle while the act of being attacked presented his pistol.

He was being attacked. This was NOT brandishing. Presenting the pistol had the desired result with NO shots fired.

CONSIDER HOW MUCH TIME WE SPEND IN AND AROUND VEHICLES

TRAINING OPTIONS ARE OUT THERE

GAIN some experience in a training program to learn the proper and SAFE way to draw your handgun from concealment in a seated position.

Second Story- Our next story takes place in Dayton, Ohio.  A female clerk in a tanning salon watched a customer pull out his money to buy a small ring from the jewelry display.  The clerk opened her cash drawer to make change.  That is when the customer said, “I don’t want any trouble, just give me all the money.”

The clerk presented the firearm she keeps behind the counter and pointed it at the criminal.  He ran.

Police examined the surveillance video.  The thief robbed five stores that month, and three stores that same day.

Was the clerk justified to use deadly force?

Tatiana- We really need more information to make that determination correctly.  Was the robber armed? Did he display a weapon?

Did the clerk fear for her life of those of her patrons based on his behavior, presentation of a weapon, or the delivery of the demand?

-REMEMBER – every THING is replaceable. YOU are not. Insurance exists for a reason. If your life is not in danger then being an EXCELLENT witness is the best weapon there is.

-This speaks to a common training error that we see from students transitioning out of the square range and and into scenario based training exercises.

-The difference between bullseye practice and contextual real life training is all in learning how to process and make sound decisions based on what is going on around you. Square range for example = every time the gun is drawn it is going to be shot.

Simunitions or UTM training requires you to determine if the gun even the right solution to the problem at hand. HIGHLY recommend gaining some experience in a force on force program with an emphasis on threat assessment and critical decision making skills.

-Fortunately for all involved the clerk stayed in control despite the stressful nature of the experience and the crook made the good decision NOT to test her resolve.

poing blank range logo trans

Point Blank Range

Third story-  A gun owner in Spokane first heard the alarming news from his son.  His son had just seen a stranger armed with a metal pole climb into their neighbor’s back yard.  The gun owner got his gun and walked next door.  The stranger was yelling and kicking at the neighbor’s back door.  The neighbor and her children were in the home at the time.

The man with the pole advanced toward the gun owner and his son and threatened to kill them.  The stranger swung the metal pole at the gun owner.  The gun owner presented his firearm and ordered the attacker to drop the pole.  The attacker sat on the lawn until police arrived.

Rob- When I read the several news stories about this incident, the attacker sounded both agitated and confused.

Tatiana- We say don’t get involved, but this man knew his neighbor.

All three stories were defensive gun use without any shots fired.  That shows good restraint under stress. Used correctly, by an individual with a cool head, the gun can effectively control a situation without shots being fired.

Exit- That wraps up this episode. Tatiana, thank you for helping me today.  Where can our listeners learn more about you?

Tatiana- They can contact me at http://tatianawhitlock.com/ On Facebook at https://www.facebook.com/tatiana.whitlock/ And at thesear.com and On Target Magazine.

Rob- Before we close, I want to mention that Tatiana has a free video about firearms safety and storing firearms safely in your home with children.  The link is in our show notes.

Once our listeners have watched Tatiana’s video, I hope they will also give us a review on Itunes.  We post transcripts and links to these stories on our web page at self defense gun stories dot com,

I’m Rob Morse.  Please join us next week for more Self-Defense Gun Stories.

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Episode 5 with Tatiana Whitlock

Introduction-  Welcome to episode 5 of Self-Defense Gun Stories.  I’m Rob Morse with firearms instructor Tatiana Whitlock.  Hello, Tatiana.  Together, we bring you examples of armed civilian defense each week.

Tatiana- Our first example took place last week on the streets of Philadelphia, Pennsylvania.

First story- Elderly couple attacked by two men in their 20s– It was a little after 8:30 in the evening.  A 65 year old man and his wife were walking home from their business in the Queen Village neighborhood of Philadelphia.  They’ve lived there for 40 years.  The couple passed two young men on their walk.  One of the men said “What are you looking at?”  The couple stepped back, but moments later the two young men attacked them.  The old man was knocked down and kicked.  The old woman was hit as well.  From the ground, the old man drew his licensed firearm and shot his two attackers.

The elderly man was taken to the hospital with cuts and bruises on his face, head, neck and chest.  The two young men went to the hospital with gunshot wounds and are in stable condition.

Tatiana-  Disparity of force.  Mantle of innocence.  Young men were not covered with bruises.  The old man was.  Options?  The couple can’t run.

Licensed firearm increases his credibility as a law abiding person.

The defender stopped shooting when the attackers withdrew.

Rob- When would a student learn to present a firearm while he is lying on the ground?

Second Story- Robbed at a corner store in downtown Philadelphia.  This second story also happened in Philadelphia.  A driver and his passenger stopped their car at a corner convenience store at 5:30 in the evening.  The driver was first approached by a man selling drugs.  The driver ignored the seller, and the seller went away.  A group of men then moved toward the car and surrounded the vehicle.  One of the group lay across the hood of the car.   A man opened the car door from the outside.  The driver saw he had a gun tucked into his waistband.  The driver then presented his own firearm and shot the intruder.  The two people in the car drove away, called police, and returned to the scene.  They met uniformed police and told them what happened.  The driver has a permit to legally carry a firearm.  The intruder was shot four times, twice in each leg.

Tatiana- Theft vs robbery vs kidnapping the passenger.

Be the first one on the phone.

It is a clue when the druggies are dealing in on the street in the daylight.

poing blank range logo trans

Point Blank Range

Third story- Robber shot after failed home invasion  A couple heard a man pound on their front door just after midnight.  The visitor claimed he needed help and needed to use the phone.  Once the couple opened their front door, the stranger pushed his way into the home and presented his firearm.  The intruder gathering items to steal while he held the young man and women who lived in the home at gunpoint.  The robber moved them from room to room, and the male homeowner picked up his own gun.  The homeowner shot the robber.  The robber ran outside.

There were several recent robberies by a man who fit this physical description.

Tatiana- You will not have time to get a gun by the time you know you need one.  That is why you have to be prepared.  Don’t open the door.  

Exit- That wraps up this episode.  Tatiana, thank you for helping me today.  Where can our listeners find you?

Tatiana- They can contact me at http://tatianawhitlock.com/
Facebook at https://www.facebook.com/tatiana.whitlock/
Wide open spaces.com and at recoilweb.com

Rob- You reminded me.  Listeners can find us and leave a comment at self defense gun stories dot com, and on our facebook page.  I’m Rob Morse.  Please join us next week for more Self-Defense Gun Stories.