Episode 232 with Tony Simon

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Rob- Introduction- Welcome to episode 232 of Self-Defense Gun Stories. We’re glad you found us if you’re well trained.. and also if you are new to self defense. I’m Rob Morse and we’re joined this week by my friend and firearms instructor Tony Simon. I checked our records and Tony and I are starting our 6th year of recording together.

Tony- Hi, Rob. As a young man, I’m still working and teaching producing the diversity shoot.

Rob- Are you able to see bare ground in New Jersey, or are you still walking through snow and slush?

Tony- It is in the 70s.

Rob- We received one new rating, but no new reviews. Please go to the iTunes store where you subscribe to podcasts and let new listeners know about us.

Tony- We defend ourselves with a firearm tens of thousands of times each week. We’ll look at a few recent examples and ask what we should do if we were in their place. We give you the links back to the original news articles on our podcast webpage.

Our first story took place last week in Albuquerque, New Mexico.

Rob- First story- Are you armed at home?  

You’re having friends over late at night. A couple starts arguing. Soon, they are shouting at each other. The man slams the door as he leaves, but you hear him yell in pain a moment later. He jumped off the balcony and hurt himself. You ask if he needs help, but he shouts at you and moves away.

Later, your former guest and three other men kick down your front door. They hit you and choke you. You fight your way free and run to your bedroom to get your gun. Your attackers follow you. You shoot all four of them. Now, they run away. You check on your wife, your children, and the other guests. You call 911. You give a statement to the police. Emergency Medical Services take two of your attackers to the hospital. Another attacker walks into the emergency room. The fourth attacker is declared dead at the scene. The surviving attackers are charged with aggravated burglary, aggravated battery with great bodily harm, and conspiracy.

What did our defender do to save himself and his family?

Tony- Having his door locked probably saved his man’s life because one of the attackers was armed with a steel bar and the other attacker choked him.

Our defender had a loaded gun.

Recognized a threat.

Defended himself and his family.

Stopped shooting when the bad guys ran away.

Called for help.

Gave a statement to the police.

Rob- What would you like us to do if our guests start a fight at our house?

Tony- The attackers were probably intoxicated because they had been partying all night long. Call the police the first time one of them threatens you or anyone else. Your call forms a record of events if things escalate even if the threat alone is not actionable.

This man and maybe some of his family almost died because he didn’t have a gun on him. At least one person at your party should be sober and be the designated defenders the same way you have designated drivers. They should have a concealed firearm on their body.

Have everyone at the party call 911.

Rob- What should we say to the police?

Tony-  The callers must keep their call simple without over explaining what happened. Give the location, the number of attackers, the homeowner’s outfit, that he defended everyone and that all bad guys ran off. Then hang up. 

Rob- What should we do when the police arrive?

Tony- The defender’s gun was on the kitchen table when the police arrived. The area was secured and no one wants have a good defensive shoot turn into a police standoff or get shot due to a misunderstanding. 

Rob- Should I stay on the call with 911?

Tony- We have to keep in mind that you and the other 911 caller speak to one or more dispatchers who speak to multiple officers. It can become a dangerous game of “telephone”.

Rob- Anything else?

Tony- That is enough for now. Our second story happened in Lubbock, Texas.

Rob- Second Story- Are you armed during the day?   

You asked your boyfriend to move out of your apartment. He is carrying his things away when he hits you. You follow him outside and write down the license plate number of his car. You call the police and file a complaint. You lock your front door. A few minutes later, your ex-boyfriend kicks down your door. You try to run upstairs. He grabs you from behind and drags you back down the stairs. You turn and shoot him. Now he lets go of you. You call 911.

The police walk through your broken door. They find your attacker inside your home. Emergency Medical Services declare your attacker dead at the scene. You give a statement to the police.

Tony- I see what you did there. This defender called the police after the first attack. She was armed, and it sounds like she had a gun on her body when her attacker kicked his way through her door. She tried to create distance by retreating upstairs. She defended herself when he attacked her. It sounds like she stopped shooting when he let go of her and she could back away again. She called 911 for the second time and asked for help.

Rob- What does that call sound like.

Tony- This is my location. I need medical and police. Someone is shot. The scene is secure. I am armed, and I’ll stay on the phone until the police arrive and you tell me to put the gun away. Then tell them what you look like.

Rob- Do I need legal insurance?

Tony- You might. You shot an unarmed man. You have to explain why there was a disparity of force that made it necessary for you to use lethal force to save your life. There are a number of factors that you have to establish, and a few wrong words can defeat your entire defense.

You can say-

I was attacked a few minutes ago and I called you. I thought he was going to kill me this time. He grabbed me and was dragging me down the stairs. I defended myself. I shot him when I was on the stairs. I retreated and called you again as soon as I could. Please arrest him and I’ll press charges and testify against him. I’ll cooperate and give a complete statement after I’ve spoken to my lawyer.

Rob- Is that all?

Tony- Point out the broken door and the empty shell casing. Saying more than that is probably going to do you more harm than good.

Rob- Are they going to arrest me and put me in handcuffs?

Tony- Probably. They don’t know who is who when they arrive. They have to talk to the dispatcher. Investigators have to make the determination if this was clearly a case of self-defense, or if more investigation is needed. I hope you shouted for help and for him to stop. That created ear witnesses that you gave a warning before they heard gunshots.

Our third story happened in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania.

Rob- First this message from FASTER Colorado.

Rob- Third story- Are you armed as you drive?

You drive for Lyft. You get a call to a residential area in Philadelphia at 5 on a Sunday morning. When you pull up to the location, two teenagers run up to your car. One of them has a gun and he orders you to get out of your car and give him the keys.

You are a gun owner. You have your Pennsylvania License to Carry. You are armed this morning. You present your firearm and shoot the armed attacker nearest to you. Your attacker drops his gun. The other attacker puts his arms up in the air, so you don’t shoot him. The wounded attacker shouts to someone in a car nearby and the car drives away. You get out of the car, look around, and then call 911.

Police arrest the two attackers. EMS takes your wounded attacker to the hospital for the treatment of non-life threatening injury to his leg. Police recover the attacker’s gun. It is a BB gun. The attackers who remained at the scene are 14 and 15 years old.

Lyft says you’re not supposed to carry in your car, but an unarmed driver was carjacked in Philadelphia yesterday. You didn’t want that to happen to you.

Tony- Armed.

On body.

Recognized the threat.

Stopped shooting when the threat stopped.

Called 911.

Gave a statement.

Rob- What else do you see in this story? 

Tony- It sounds like our defender got to his gun as he was getting out of his car and he fired at the attacker who was closest to him. The defender fired just a little early when the gun wasn’t fully level, so he hit his attacker in the legs. That probably saved the teenage attacker’s life.

Rob- Do we see many carjackings?

Tony-  We- are seeing more and more of these carjackings. Many are committed by young teens. This may be more dangerous that attacks by adults. Many younger criminals have little to no impulse control or empathy compared to older criminals.

Rob- When do people with a concealed carry permit learn to defend themselves as they drive?

Tony- (What classes do they usually take before close quarters combat? Unusual shooting positions like sitting, kneeling, lying face down and face up. Also, disarming and weapons retention.)

Rob- That isn’t a first class.

Tony- Our forth story took place in Fairbanks, Alaska.

 

Rob- Fourth story- Are you armed in public?

It is an ordinary work day. You stop at a local gas station to buy some fast food and an energy drink. You’re waiting in line when a young man walks in with a large knife in his hands. The teenager says he’s robbing the place. You put your drink down and step out the door. You run to your truck and grab your pistol. The teenager sees you as you come back inside. You point your gun at him and tell him to put the knife down and to lay down on the floor until the police arrive.

Police arrest the robber and charge him with first degree attempted robbery, and third degree assault. The store clerk said you get a free breakfast.

Tony- Convenience stores are robbed every day. Our defender recognized a lethal threat as it was happening. Got his firearm, then decided that the threat wasn’t immediate, so he didn’t have to shoot..yet. That could have changed in a fraction of a second. Our good guy called the police and gave a statement.

Rob- What would you like your students to do?

Tony-  I understand that some states won’t give you a permit, but carry on your body if you can. This story could have ended with the store employees or other customers stabbed or killed because your defensive tool was in the car. Ask everyone in the store to call the police.

I assume that convenience stores have cameras and I expected to see some security video in the news report. You want a copy of the videos for your defense lawyer, and I want you to call your lawyer.

Rob- I was the good guy. I wasn’t charged, and you want me to call my lawyer?

Tony- Your lawyer keeps you from being charged. It is easier to dump charges on poor people who can’t afford a lawyer than on rich people who can defend themselves in court. You want to be one of the people who can put up a legal defense so you won’t be bullied by prosecutors.

Rob- Is there anything else you noticed?

Tony- The defender told reporters that he wouldn’t shoot the robber if the robber ran away, and that is exactly right. We are not the police. We want to protect ourselves and other innocent people from an immediate and lethal threat. Let the police go chase the bad guys. Also, it is a bad idea to talk to reporters.

Rob- Why is that?

Tony- You say one stupid thing and you can get charged with a crime. Getting your face in the news isn’t worth that risk.

Rob- I bet your students ask you about crimes like this one because we all stop for gas..

Tony- Most of us do.

Exit-  Rob- that wraps up this episode. Tony, thank you for carrying me to the end of another episode. Where can we learn more about you and what you’re doing?

Tony- Find me at Diversityshoot.com I’m also on Instagram and facebook at Simon Says Train and at The 2nd is For Everyone podcast.

Rob- After you look at Tony’s classes and listen to his podcast, then leave us a comment on the podcast facebook page, on Mewe, or at Self Defense Gun Stories.com

Tony- We share this podcast with you for free.
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Rob- This show is part of the Self-defense radio network. Find more pro-freedom podcasts at sdrn.us

I’m Rob Morse.  We’ll be back next week with more Self-Defense Gun Stories.
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