Episode 138 with Amanda Suffecool

Rob- Introduction- I’m glad you found us and welcome to episode 138 of Self-Defense Gun Stories.

This podcast is for people who are curious about a firearm for self-defense, and for those who already own one. I’m your host, Rob Morse. We’re joined this week by self defense instructor Amanda Suffecool.

Amanda- Hi, Rob.  I’ve been working and shooting and…

Rob- Amanda, how do you listen to the show?

Amanda- On my cell phone with  (iTunes?)

Rob- We only have 18 ratings on iTunes since apple wiped us out. Please leave a comment and a rating.

Rob- I’m looking for a bilingual podcaster who will make a spanish version of Self-Defense Gun Stories. If you know someone, then please ask them to contact us.  Until then, Amanda, please introduce our podcast to our new listeners.

Amanda- We study several examples where gun owners survived a life threatening situation. Were they lucky, or did they have a plan? What should we do if we were in their place? Our first story took place last week in Chicago, Illinois.

Rob- First story-  Are you armed as you wait for the bus?

You’re on your way to work. It is six in the morning and cold outside. You’re in your medical scrubs and a heavy coat. As you wait for a bus, a young man comes up to you. He pulls a gun from his pocket. He tries to knock you down and grab your purse. You have your concealed carry permit. You’re armed. You present your firearm and shoot your attacker in the chest. Before you can fire again, he runs away. You grab your purse and run across the street.

There you call police. They find your attacker a block away. He died at the local hospital from a gunshot to the neck. Your attacker had a record of drug arrests and assaulting a police officer.

Amanda- POGO
Amanda- He was able to run a block, so this was a psychological stop.
Amanda- She got to safety rather than chase her attacker.
Amanda- Call the police.
Amanda- purse carry?
Rob- Anything else?
Amanda- This happened very fast. It was only a couple of seconds from start to finish. That makes practice very important so that you can respond instinctively rather than having to think about what you’re doing.
Rob- What kind of practice does that take.
Amanda- gun safety. Find a gun that fits you. Learn to present from a holster. Learn to concealed carry. Dry practice takes 10 minutes a night at home for 2 weeks. Go to the range and review. You can’t become unconsciously competent tonight, but you can in a few weeks. It takes less than a month, and if you don’t do it then you’re going to be defenseless in a month.
Rob- It seems I read stories like this fairly often.
Amanda- Most robberies take place in public so this is the most likely scenario for your self-defense. That makes it a good choice for a first story.

Our second story happened last week in Loomis, California.

Rob- Second Story-  Are you armed as you go shopping?   

It is 8:30 at night and you are sitting in your truck. You’re searching through your phone and your shopping list before you go into the grocery store. You look up to see a security guard stop a man and a woman coming out of the store. The security guard asks them to go back inside. The man pulls a knife and tries to stab the guard. The guard knocks the knife out of the attackers hand. The two men wrestle to the ground.

You are one of the ten million people in California with your concealed carry permit. You’re armed tonight. You step out of your truck and see if anyone needs help. The attacker yells for his girlfriend to pick up the knife and stab the guard. She picks up the knife and walks toward the two men on the ground.

You draw your firearm and tell her to drop the knife. She does. You step forward so the knife is closer to you. Police arrive a few seconds later and you holster your firearm.

The guard was taken to the hospital to treat knife wounds on his hand. The couple was arrested for robbery, conspiracy, and assault with a deadly weapon.

Amanda- know when you should intervene and when you should be a good witness.
Rob- Did the armed concealed carrier have a right to shoot the woman?
Amanda- Perhaps, but he used verbal commands and she dropped the knife. That shows an incremental escalation along the continuum of force. That is sophisticated self-defense to go from using your physical presence, to using words, to using your proximity before you move to contact or lethal force.
Rob- Your beginning students are learning to safely live with a gun. When do you talk about armed confrontations with your students? Is it in concealed carry?
Amanda- You’re coming into the middle of a confrontation. The gun on the ground yelling “Stab him. Stab him” is a pretty good clue that you found your bad guy.

Our third story happened last week outside of Portland, Michigan.

Rob- First this message from

Please support Doctors for responsible gun ownership, DRGO.us

Rob- Third story- Are you armed at home in the evening?

Someone knocks on the door to your home and then comes inside. It is ten at night and the man is yelling that someone is chasing him. You grab your gun and call the police. You go to the center of your home and ask the stranger who is chasing him? The stranger says that there are people outside trying to kill him. You and the strange man look at your front yard but there isn’t anyone there. You tell the stranger he is safe. Then you ask him if he needs to call the police? The stranger follows you back inside your home. The strange man starts talking but he doesn’t make sense.

You tell him he has to leave. He pushes you backward and then grabs you. You try to push him away but can’t get him to let go. You shoot the stranger and retreat once he lets go of you.

The police arrive a minute later in response to your earlier call. The strange man abandoned his truck and stole the vehicle sitting in your driveway. Police think that drugs and alcohol might be involved.

Rob- What did our homeowner do correctly?

Amanda- He got his gun before he needed it. He called police before the violent encounter. I assume he had a flashlight if he was searching outside.
Amanda-  THis is a hard one, you don’t WANT to leave someone outside when the potential badguy ( that he led you to believe existed) is out there – but as you see… there is more to the story than originally meets the eye.
Rob- What do you want your students to do?
Amanda- Lock your doors. Keep the crazy people outside. Offer to call the police to come help them.
Amanda- Our forth story took place last week back in Chicago, Illinois.

Rob- Fourth story- Are you armed when you step outside on New Years eve?

You stepped outside for a few minutes. It is new years eve and there is noise coming from all along the block of brownstone apartments. Two men drive by is a small car. The stop the car, get out, and run toward you with guns in their hands. You’re being robbed.

You have your Illinois concealed carry license. You’re armed tonight. You back away from your attackers. They say to hand it over, but as they get closer you draw your gun and fire several times. The two men run back to their car and drive away. You go back inside and call police. You’re not injured.

The police arrest your two attackers at the hospital.

Amanda- Be armed even if it means you can’t drink on New Years eve.
Amanda- Our defender did a good job with this attack. He shot until the threat stopped, and then he stopped shooting. He did not shoot at the bad guys as they were running away, or at the car as it drove away. Our good guy knew the law AND had some self-control. Our good guy also called the police immediately. You want to be the first person to call so you are identified as the good guy and the victim.
Rob- Is there anything else you’d want your students to do in this case?
Amanda- Streetlights. A flashlight might have helped, but I don’t know that it would have changed the way the attack unfolded. Abrupt movement away and to the side as you draw and defend yourself.
Rob- You don’t learn to move and shoot in your basic firearms safety class. When would I learn to do things like that? (safety class. CC class. Holster, presentation, and movement class)

Exit-  Rob- that wraps up this episode. Amanda, thank you for helping us again. Where can we learn more about you?

Amanda- You can find me at eye on the target radio radio. I have a nationally syndicated radio show on Sunday night from 5 to 7 eastern time. Give us a listen and call in and talk with us.  I also instruct on the weekends.

Rob- After you listen to Amanda’s show, then leave us a message on the podcast facebook page.  

Amanda- We share this podcast with you for free.  As Rob said at the beginning of the show, we only have 18 ratings on I-Tunes, so please give us a rating and share the podcast with a friend. We’re also available on Google Play Music, Stitcher and Spotify.

Rob- This podcast is part of the Self-defense radio network. Find other great shows like eye on the target radio at sdrn.us

My friend Kevin Creighton started a new instruction business. He teaching concealed carry classes in Naples Florida. Find him at Quietly Armed.
http://quietlyarmed.com/concealed-carry-classes/

I’m Rob Morse.  We’ll be back next week with more Self-Defense Gun Stories.

I gave you this article for free. Please like and share in return.
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Episode 137 with Andee Reardon

Rob- Introduction- I’m glad you found us and welcome to episode 137 of Self-Defense Gun Stories.

This podcast is for people who are curious about a firearm for self-defense, and for those who already own one. I’m your host, Rob Morse. We’re joined this week by self defense instructor Andee Reardon.

Andee- Hi, Rob. I’ve been working and shooting and just relocated to a more rural part of Maine. We’re getting ready to open up registration for the Women Who Shoot Retreat coming up in July. Very exciting.

Rob- I’m looking for spanish speaking hosts and instructors for a spanish version of Self-Defense Gun Stories. If you know someone, then please ask them to contact us.  Until then, Andee, please introduce our podcast to our new listeners in English.

Andee- We’ll report and examine several examples where gun owners faced a life threatening situation. Were they lucky, or did they have a plan? What should we do if we were in their place? Our first story took place last week in Las Vegas, Nevada.

Rob- First story- Are you armed at work?

You’re working in the back room of a small jewelry store. You hear some unexpected sounds from the showroom. It is about 5 in the evening. You get up and walk towards the front of the store. You see two men dressed in black. They have guns pointed at your customers and  at your fellow employees. They pull rope out of a bag to tie them up. You draw your firearm and shoot the robbers.

One robber runs. The other falls down after shooting you. Your co-workers call for EMTs and the police.

Andee- I’m glad our defender was armed. I’m glad he did not run away. He saved his co-workers lives.  It sounds like he did not rush into the store. He stayed in the fight and won even though he was wounded.

Rob- You’ve worked with small business owners. What do you tell them to do.

Andee- Avoid a gunfight if possible. You want to be able to shoot your attackers without giving them an easy shot at you. Use of cover is very important. Could you shoot from behind a doorway? Could you make the wall near the door out of something that will stop bullets, something like cinder block, brick or concrete rather than sheetrock?

It would be great to know what is going on in the showroom without walking in there. Can you set up video and have a monitor in the hallway and offices?

Andee- Let’s look at a larger picture. Can you secure the front door to the business so you have to buzz someone in? Put visible video monitors in the showroom. Have a panic alarm in your pocket and behind the counter. Think how differently this would have gone if every single family member and employee was armed rather than only one.

If that sounds expensive, compare it to the medical bills and the lost time from work this man has to pay.

Rob- How about learning first aid?

Andee- It didn’t say where the employee was shot but having tourniquet training and a heavy bleeding med kit could save someone’s life in a shootout. Learning how to use a tourniquet and chest seal doesn’t take long and is an important skill to have in an emergency.

Rob- Anything else?

Andee- That is enough for now. Our second story happened last week in Reidsville, North Carolina.

Rob- Second Story-  Are you armed as you stop to buy an energy drink?   

It is two in the morning. You need gas and an energy drink to stay awake. You pull off the highway and walk inside. Two men start shouting from the front of the convenience store. They tell everyone to come up to the cashier’s desk. They are dressed in black clothes, black gloves, and they have masks over their faces. You look closer, and see that they also have guns. Now you’re awake. They yell at you so you walk towards the front of the store.

You have your concealed carry permit. You’re carrying today. The masked robbers threaten the clerk and he gives them the money from the till. Then the robbers ask the man next to you for his money and cell phone. You step to the side, draw your firearm and shoot your attackers. They run and get in the car waiting for them. You and the other victims call the police.

The police arrest your attackers the next day.

Andee- POGO

Rob- That isn’t easy. You’re facing two attackers and they are both armed.

Andee- That is pretty normal. Criminals bring friends because they don’t want a fair fight. The two robbers faced three victims. That gave our defender a chance to move and draw.

Rob- How was our defender able to shoot his attackers without being shot?

Andee- They were distracted with robbing the other people. Whoever goes first gets a half second head start while the other guys have to process what he’s doing. Our defender moved, and that bought him even more time. Our defender had a plan. With practice you can shoot shoot someone several times in less than a second even though you’re drawing from concealment. But there is a trick. The first dozen times you practice you’re much slower.

Rob- I don’t understand?

Andee- You’ve seen small children take uncertain steps. We’re all like that the first time we learn a new skill. It takes practice to become fast. Starting slow to build good muscle memory and gaining speed as you become comfortable with the correct technique.

Rob- What else did you notice?

Andee- Call police and ask the other people in the store to call the police also. Ask the store to get the security video ready. Call your lawyer after you call the police.
Rob- Thank you for mentioning that. It takes some thought to get organized.

Andee- Having a plan lets you do the right thing when you’re too upset to think. We have a plan when we get into our car. We do lots of things in a routine way every day.

Our third story happened in Houston,Texas.

Rob- First this message from my friends at FASTER Colorado. I support them. I hope you will too.

Please support FASTER Colorado at Coloradans for Civil Liberties

Rob- Third story- Are you armed when you are out buying groceries?

You’re going to the bank and then doing some shopping with your spouse. It is about 2 in the afternoon when you walk up to your car and start loading groceries into the back. Two men get out of their car nearby and walk up to your wife who is standing near the driver’s-side door of your car. They point guns at your wife and demand her purse. You’re carrying concealed. You draw and fire at the two robbers. They run back to their car and drive away. You call police and stay at the scene. You’re not hurt, but it looks like the robbers let the air out of one of your tires.

The robbers crashed their car nearby. Police arrested one of them.

Andee- POGO. Pants On, Gun On.

Rob- What would you do in that situation?

Andee- I’m glad he was armed, but I wish she was too. That means we have to talk about purse carry. If her gun was in her purse then that is the first thing the robbers took from her.

Rob- Suppose I’ve decided that I want to carry a gun. What are all the steps I have to go through.

Andee- What is the gun for? If carry is legal in your state, then get a gun that you can carry concealed. You’ll need to consider a lot of things like how you will carry, where and what kind of holster you’ll be using.

Rob- Is that a good first gun for me?

Andee- Your first gun isn’t usually your only gun, just as the car you learned to drive probably isn’t the car you own now. Most people start learning with a 22 but I don’t recommend that for a carry gun. Get one that fits you. Remember, this is your FIRST gun. It isn’t an olympic style target gun so it should be simple to operate. It doesn’t have to fit in your pocket so it can be more comfortable to shoot. Go to a range that rents guns, and try some of them. See how they fit in the store and how they feel on the range when you shoot them. It helps to have an experienced friend go with you.  When I teach my classes I allow my students to try a good variety of popular concealed carry guns so when they are ready to buy they can make an educated purchase.

Rob- So becoming a concealed carrier usually takes a few steps?

Andee- Lets make you a safe and accurate gun owner. Then we can work on getting you a carry gun that fits your particular needs.

Rob- What are the considerations for a carry gun?

Andee- Are you a large man or a small woman? That makes a difference because the gun that fits you won’t fit me. How are you going to carry it? Can it go behind your hip, or will you be sitting down a lot and you need to appendix carry? Are you wearing pants, or are you a woman wearing a skirt so you might carry in a belly band?

Rob- It sounds like that takes some exploration and discovery.

Andee- Yes, but it’s fun. I love walking new shooters through the process. I teach concealed carry clinics for women to help them learn about the different guns and holsters out there.

In this case, the man was carrying concealed on his body. If I were in his place, I’d draw while I was hidden behind the car. Then I’d walk so I could see the attackers and start shooting. If I could, I’d like to keep part of the car between me and them. There’s always an advantage of using cover.

Rob- This is what you were talking about in the earlier story. It seems that this attacker got to shoot his attacker but they didn’t get shots at him.

Andee- He kept the advantage of attack and didn’t give them an opportunity to shoot back.

Our forth story took place last week in Wichita, Kansas.

Rob- Fourth story-  Are you armed as you stop for gas and a cup of coffee?  

You pumped your gas and then walked into the convenience store to buy a soda. You’re standing in line at between two and three in the afternoon when four young men rush into the store. They have guns and tell everyone to put their hands up. There are four of them, so you do as they say. They demand money from the store clerk. The robbers take the money and some cigarettes. The robbers then tell you to hand over your wallet. You have your concealed carry permit, or you did, since you just gave it to the robber in your wallet. You’re carrying concealed. The robber closest to you pats you to see if you have your phone.

You turn slightly, and reach for your phone. You also reach for your concealed firearm. You shoot the closest robber before your gun comes up. You shoot at the other robbers as they run out the door and then head to the back of the store. The robber closest you you falls to the floor. Everyone inside backs away from the register and calls police.

The other witnesses tell the police what happened. The police told you that these same young men probably robbed another store convenience store a few hours ago.

Andee- If someone starts to touch me, to pat me down, then there is going to be a gunfight because I don’t want them to disarm me. I will give up my money, but not my gun.

Rob- That is a lot to think about.

Andee- It is, but this gun owner had thought about it. He waited his turn to defend himself. He let them leave with his money, but the robbers forced the attack.

Rob- What do you tell your students to do?

Andee- Firearms safety. Safe gun handling. Practice until you’re comfortable. Learn how other people concealed carry and try the methods that work for you. Practice them until they become second nature. That takes several classes, but you can get there in about a month.

Rob- Anything else you notice about this story?

Andee- The robbers saw the man as compliant until he was given a good opportunity to reach for his pistol. He used that opportunity to catch them by surprise.

Exit-  Rob- that wraps up this episode. Andee, thank you for helping us again. Where can we learn more about you?

Andee- Look for me at EastCoastSchoolofSafety.com and on my facebook and Instagram pages with the same name.

Rob- Leave us a message on the podcast facebook page.

Andee- We share this podcast with you for free.  All we ask is that you share the podcast with a friend and give us a rating on I-Tunes and Stitcher.  We’re also available on Google Play Music and Spotify.

Rob- This podcast is part of the Self-defense radio network at sdrn.us My friend Kevin Creighton started a new instruction business. He teaching concealed carry classes in Naples Florida. Find him at Quietly Armed.  http://quietlyarmed.com/concealed-carry-classes/

I’m Rob Morse.  We’ll be back next week with more Self-Defense Gun Stories.

I gave you this article for free. Please like and share in return.
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Episode 136 with Tony Simon

Rob- Introduction- I’m glad you found us. Welcome to episode 136 of Self-Defense Gun Stories.

This podcast is for people who are curious about a firearm for self-defense, and for those who already own one. I’m your host, Rob Morse. We’re joined this week by self defense instructor Tony Simon.

Tony- Hi, Rob.  I’ve been working, shooting and instructing. We also had a two day class with Rob Pincus. Working the schedule for 2019.

Rob- I’m looking for a spanish speaking podcaster who will make a spanish version of Self-Defense Gun Stories. If you know someone, then please ask them to contact us.  Until then, Tony, please introduce our podcast to our new listeners.

Tony- We study several examples where gun owners survived a life threatening situation. Were they lucky, or did they have a plan? What should we do if we were in their place? Our first story took place last week in Springfield, Missouri.

Rob- First story-  Are you armed as you visit your relatives?  

You’re visiting with your relatives. It is after dinner and the first sign of trouble is the sound of shots from the backyard. You step out the back door to see a police officer standing next to a stranger kneeling on the ground. You walk over to the officer and notice that the officer has his gun out. The suspect sitting on the ground has a gun too. The stranger’s gun is pointed at you. Now you notice that the suspect is bleeding. You say, “Hey, there is an ambulance in front of the house, you’re going to be OK.”

The stranger raises his firearm and you shoot the man threatening you. So does the police officer. The police officer’s gun was jammed when you walked over. The officer cleared his firearm and reloaded as you talked to the armed fugitive. The same criminal who had already shot at the police.

Tony- That is a frightening situation for everyone involved. Too bad the bad guy forced people to shoot him.

Rob-  What did our defender do right?

Tony-  The defender had his firearm on him and was ready to use it to defend a life. He knew what could happen if he had to pull the trigger. He used verbal skills to express what he would do if the bad guy didn’t do what he was told. He also used those skills to let the officer know that he was a good guy.

Rob-  It must be a shock to see a wounded man in your backyard.. And to discover you’re standing next to a police officer.

Tony-  I say it over and over. You never know what your fight will look like. Who practices to be backup for a uniformed officer in your family’s backyard?

Rob-  What would you tell your students to do?

Tony- know your line, what makes you get involved as a third party in a armed confrontation?

It’s important to understand that carrying a firearm for personal protection doesn’t make you a police officer. You don’t have to run to the sound of gun fire. Becoming involved in this confrontation could have cost the good guy his life. He could have been killed by either officer or the bad guy.

Rob- It also makes it very clear why you don’t run around with a gun in your hands. You don’t point your gun at a dark shape.

Tony- That is what bad guys do.  That will get you shot if one of those dark shapes is a cop. Here are some other lessons.
This happened at night, do you carry a flashlight? Does your self defense gun have a weapon mounted light?

Rob- Anything else?

Tony- That is enough for now. Our second story happened last week in Charlotte, North Carolina.

Rob- Second Story-  Are you armed at home?   

You’re selling your video game console and some games. An online buyer wants to see it, and he says he has cash. It is a few days before Christmas, and you could use the money. Two men come over. They want to see the games and make sure they work. They seem to like them. The two men attack you and try to take the games. You’re armed and you shoot your attackers. You stay in your apartment and call police and EMTs.

Tony- We’ve seen this story before.

Rob- I’m sorry. I thought news report came in last week.

Tony- It happens every week. Don’t invite strangers to your home. You don’t know who answers your ads. Conduct person to person sales at the local police station.

Rob- What did our defender do correctly?

Tony- POGO Having your handgun on your person is something to practice doing so it comes naturally. We had many stories on this podcast about citizens saving lives, lives that would have be lost if the good guy had to run away to get a gun and then run back.

Rob- Our good guy defended himself. What else did he do correctly?

Tony- Call the police, stay on the scene and point out evidence and witnesses if you can because that is what the good guys do.

Rob- What would you tell your students to do..besides sell their video games so they have more money to take training classes with you?

Tony- Be aware that there are predators online that look for trusting people to invite them to their homes.

Our third story happened last week outside of Little Rock, Arkansas.

Rob- First this message about the Crime Prevention Research Center.

Please support the Crime Prevention Research Center at

http://crimeresearch.org/

Rob- Third story- Are you armed at home late at night?

It is dark outside and things are quiet. That is why the screams and pounding on your front door come as such a shock. You turn on the front porch light and see your neighbor slumped down on the ground. You quickly open the door and see your neighbor’s son running at you with something in his hand. You know that your neighbor’s son has been in trouble with the law before. You tell him to stop. The son steps closer to his father, and you see that the son has a rock in his hand. You draw your firearm and tell him to leave. The attacker steps back and you call police and EMTs.

They arrive a few minutes later. Your neighbor died at the hospital from injuries he received from his son. The son is arrested. He was out on parole for an earlier violent attack.

Tony- The son broke through the back door of his father’s home. The bad guy in this story had a history of attacking his father. He was on parole for attacking his dad in 2014 and stealing his father’s car. A definite bad guy.

Rob- So this sort of attack is happens fairly often?

Tony- Way too often. Sadly many violent confrontations are between people that know each other. Assaults with fists and a club are far more common than a shooting. That’s one of the reasons that I stress to my students that you can’t predict your self defense confrontation. Listen to a show like this one and you will see attacks from relatives, co-workers, boyfriends or complete strangers.

Rob-  Was a gun the right tool for defense?

Tony- A rock was used as a deadly weapon. The bad guy was using deadly force on a much older and weaker man. Deadly force is justified if you fear for your life or serious physical harm. The much younger and stronger man could still have been a deadly threat using only his bare hands.

Rob- What did our defender do correctly?

Tony- POGO, Identify the threat. Present the gun. Give verbal commands..and be ready to follow up with lethal force. The son came a step away from dying right there.

Rob- What else do you see?

Tony- Porch light. How did you know that the person running at you was the neighbors son. How did you see what was in his hands? Bring a flashlight when you open your door late at night.

Rob- Anything else?

Tony- Our forth story took place last week in Phoenix, Arizona.

Rob- Fourth story- Are you armed when you’re working early in the morning?

You work at a convenience store. You’re brewing more coffee and setting out snacks for your customers. A man and a young teenager walk in and demand money from the cash register. The man has a gun in his hand and he says he’ll shoot you. You back up toward the cash register, but then you draw your gun and shoot your attacker. Your attacker drops his gun and both robbers try to run.

The adult robber falls down, but the teenager runs away. Police say these two robbers had robbed two other stores and beaten another store clerk that morning.

Tony- Criminals commit crimes for a living. They are used to using violence to get what they want. They come in with a plan. You are way behind by the time you’ve figured out that you are at risk and that need to use violence to defend yourself.

Rob- You’re telling me that there is more to learn about self-defense than how to press a trigger.

Tony- Criminals especially lifelong criminals use violence as a tool in their tool box. They will use a weapon to intimidate, beat or kill anyone that gets in their way. You never know if you are facing a hardened criminal or someone thats committing their first crime and is more afraid than you are at the time. Both of them can kill you. If you buy a firearm for personal protection get training, practice, keep it loaded and have a plan when it comes to its use. Listen to shows like this and figure out when would you use your firearm.

Rob- Thank you. I want them to learn from you rather than from their own painful mistakes.  What did our defender do correctly?

Tony- Drawing your firearm from concealment should be something that you practice. If you can move to the sides and behind cover or concealment that’s even better. Having your draw concealed from the bad guy cuts down on the time the bad guy has to react. Work on moving to the side, drawing from concealment and putting shots on target at the range. You want the bad guy to have to react to you not standing still like a victim but a moving challenge that takes the initiative away from them.

Rehearse movement as you draw a firearm. Don’t be in the same place at the end of the draw as you were at the beginning of the draw.

Rob- Did this convenience store clerk need a permit to carry in his store?

Tony- He did not need a permit to carry inside his business, but he might need it when he emptied the trash or met a delivery person outside the back door. Arizona is shall issue, so if you don’t have a criminal record then you can get a permit. You take your class and get your permit in about a month.

Rob- What would you tell your students?

Tony- I tell students that pulling the trigger is only a part of a self defense shooting. There is a lot to be done afterwards and they must stay focused. Being safe with the firearm, seeing if the bad guys are still a threat, calling the police, keep witnesses safe and in place until the authorities arrive. Calling your lawyer if you have one.

The story doesn’t say how far the robber ran before the attacker collapsed. You should protect the people who are in the store with you. It is also called honoring the witnesses.

Tell them to please stay down. You don’t know if there are more attackers or if they’ve all left. Ask if anyone is hurt. Ask them to look around and tell you if they see anyone else who is hurt. Ask each of them to call 911. Also, don’t point your gun at the witnesses.

If you have witnesses in danger then you might have to remove the firearm from your attacker. If you can get everyone to the back room, then keep them safe. Make sure that you call 911 also. Once you’re save, then put your gun is back in the holster before the police arrive.

Rob- That is another reason to have the gun in a holster and not stuffed on a shelf behind the cash register. The thing’s you’re describing go beyond basic firearms safety. When do you go over these topics with your students?

Tony- Crawl, walk, run. We talk about it. We walk it through, then they practice with an unloaded gun. Once they can move, draw and dry fire safely we do the real thing at the shooting range. We go on to firing multiple shots on target quickly and accurately.

Exit-  Rob- I learn something from you every time. Where can we learn more about you?

Tony- My website is Diversityshoot.com You can find me on Instagram and facebook at Simon Says Train and The 2nd is For Everyone podcast. On you favorite podcast app.

Rob- After you leave a message with Tony, then leave us a message on the podcast facebook page.

Tony- We share this podcast with you for free.  Please share them with a friend and give us a rating on I-Tunes and Stitcher.  We’re also available on Google Play Music and Spotify.

Rob- This podcast is part of the Self-defense radio network. Find more great podcasts at sdrn.us

I’m Rob Morse.  Happy new year, and we’ll be back next week with more Self-Defense Gun Stories.

 

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Episode 135 with Tiffany Johnson

Rob- Introduction- I’m glad you found us and welcome to episode 135 of Self-Defense Gun Stories.

This podcast is for people who are curious about a firearm for self-defense, and for those of you already own one. I’m your host, Rob Morse. We’re joined this week by self defense instructor Tiffany Johnson.

Tiffany- Hi, Rob.  I’ve been instructing, grading papers, and..

Rob- Tiffany, how do you listen to this podcast?

Tiffany- Podcasts app (iPhone)

Rob- I’m looking for a bilingual podcaster to produce a spanish edition of Self-Defense Gun Stories. If you know someone, then please ask them to contact us.  Until then, Tiffany, please introduce our podcast to our new listeners.. In English.

Tiffany- We study several examples where gun owners faced a life threatening situation. Were they lucky, or did they have a plan? What should we do if we were in their place? Our first story took place last week in Missoula, Montana.

Rob- First story-  Are you armed at home on a monday morning?  

Your first clue was the sound of the dogs and cats going crazy. You go downstairs and see a strange car and several police cars on your driveway. You wave, and they say they are searching for a fugitive. You go back inside, grab your handgun, and carefully look through your house from top to bottom. You find a stranger huddled in the back corner of your basement furnace room. You order him to leave. After the intruder is grabbed by the police, you follow the intruder outside, lay down your pistol, and lie on the ground.

Your intruder is charged with burglary, theft, drug possession, reckless driving and evading officers. The police found methamphetamine in the stolen car in your driveway.

You’re a 58 year old math professor and competitive shooter. When a local reporter called you up, and you thanked the Western Montana Fish and Game Association and the Deer Creek Shooting Range for letting you compete and train.

What did our defender do correctly?

Tiffany- He had a gun. But wasn’t armed when the intruder broke in. I have a somewhat unconventional view on POGO…

Rob- Was lethal force every justified?

Tiffany- some might say, “Don’t clear your house.”

Rob- Tiffany, I have to question that. There are good reasons to keep the police outside. Police can shoot you, your wife, your dog and your cat and claim limited immunity. There is no good solution.

Tiffany- Like most issues in self-defense, there is no one-size-fits-all solution. Answer is, it depends…

Rob- Are home break ins very common?

Tiffany- POGO gives you a holster and a place to put your gun when you meet the police. But again, that’s ideal where feasible. Not always feasible. Balancing act.

Rob- I noticed that he did not have a cartridge in the chamber when he started. He did keep his finger off the trigger as he moved. What to you suggest for your students?

Tiffany- Not what I recommend.

Rob- Anything else?

Tiffany- That is enough for now. Our second story happened last week in Miami Beach, Florida.

Rob- Second Story-  Are you armed as you walk across the street with your girlfriend and child?   

Your girlfriend and your 8 month old child are out for a stroll. You see several men fighting across the street. It sounds serious, so you and your girlfriend pull out your cell phones and take video. One of the combatants runs across the street and hits you and then your girlfriend even though she is carrying a child. You all back away. The attacker follows you. You draw your gun and shoot your attacker. Now he stops.

There are lots of witnesses. You put your gun down and wait for the police.

What did our defender do correctly?

Rob- What would you tell your students to do?

Tiffany-  avoidance, avoidance, avoidance. Why on earth would you walk towards a brewing melee – let alone draw attention to yourself by conspicuously recording – with a baby in your arms? See the fight from a block away and go in the OPPOSITE direction. Call the police from a safe distance.

Tiffany-  putting gun down vs. Reholstering

Tiffany-  Know what is behind your target. This was a crowded area.

Our third story happened last week in Pasadena, California.

Rob- First this message from Buckeye Firearms Foundation.

Please support Buckeye Firearms Foundation at https://www.buckeyefirearmsfoundation.org/

Rob- Third story- Are you armed when you work at your uncle’s jewelry store?

It is almost 11 in the morning. You’re working in the back room of your uncle’s shop. There are a number of customers in the store when two men walk in. They say they want to look at chains and rings. When the other customers leave, one of the men pulls a knife and tries to stab your uncle. You grab the gun they keep in the back room, and run into the store. The robbers see your gun and run. You and the other store employees chase the robbers from the store.

Tiffany- Glad he was armed – (more specifically) glad he at least had a gun nearby

Tiffany- Pogo – out in public, absolutely

Tiffany- Have a holster.

Tiffany- have training. The video shows the defender pointing his gun at his uncle. Please get some instruction so you know what you should and should not do, and what you are capable and incapable of doing.

he gun is not a magic object that protects you. I don’t think this gun owner was a good enough shot to hit the attacker while the attackers were struggling with his uncle. You’ll learn that in class and at the range.

Tiffany- Our forth story took place last week in Phoenix, Arizona.

Rob- Fourth story- Are you armed at your hotel room?

A man knocks on the door of your hotel room. You open the door and he pushes his way inside. The intruder says to give him your money. You say you don’t have any. He argues, but steps outside. There, he draws a gun and points it at another stranger and demands the stranger’s money. You’re armed. You draw your gun and shoot the attacker.

You call police and stay in your room until they arrive.

Tiffany- Glad he was armed – (more specifically) glad he at least had a gun nearby.  However. Don’t ever open your hotel door for a total stranger!

Tiffany- Glad he was patient. He waited for an opportunity to get his gun rather than get into a gunfight. We don’t know if the defender had his gun on his body, or in his luggage.

Tiffany- Again, what is behind your target. You are responsible for every shot fired.

Rob- What would you tell your students to do? The armed man is standing in the doorway. Do you get up and walk toward your attacker to close the door?  

Exit-  Rob- that wraps up this episode. Tiffany, thank you for helping us again. Where can we learn more about you?

Tiffany- Look for me at my website Front Sight Press and I instruct at Citizens Safety Academy and Rangemaster

Rob- If you like what you hear then leave us a message on the podcast facebook page.

Tiffany- We share this podcast with you for free.  Share the podcast with a friend and give us a rating on I-Tunes and Stitcher.  We’re also available on Google Play Music and Spotify.

Rob- My friend Kevin Creighton started a new instruction business. He teaching concealed carry classes in Naples Florida. Find him at Quietly Armed.  http://quietlyarmed.com/concealed-carry-classes/

Rob- This podcast is part of the Self-defense radio network at sdrn.us

I’m Rob Morse.  We’ll be back next week with more Self-Defense Gun Stories.

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Episode 133 with Robyn Street

Rob- Introduction- I’m glad you found us and welcome to episode 133 of Self-Defense Gun Stories.

This podcast is for people who are curious about using a firearm for self-defense, and for those who already own one. I’m your host, Rob Morse. We’re joined this week by self-defense instructor Robyn Street. How have you been?

Robyn- Hi, Rob.  I’ve been working and instructing and training and…I have met several new people, made new friends and welcomed them into our community.  How about you?

Rob- I’m looking for a spanish speaking podcaster who wants to make a spanish version of Self-Defense Gun Stories. If you know someone, then please ask them to contact us.  Until then, please introduce our podcast to our new listeners in English.

Robyn- We study several examples where gun owners survived a life threatening situation. Were they lucky, or did they have a plan? What should we do if we were in their place? Our first story took place last week in Detroit, Michigan.

Rob- First story- Are you armed as you leave for church Sunday morning?  

You and your adult daughter are going to church. A 75 year old woman also lives with you, and the three of you walk outside to get in your car. A man steps out from next to your house. He grabs your coat and forces you back inside your home. Your daughter follows you. You’re being robbed.

You draw your gun and shoot your attacker. Now he lets go of you. You step away from him and call police. Police call the shooting self-defense.

Rob- Why did the robber want to take them back inside?

Robyn- Sometimes the criminals do that as a way to defeat home alarms and locks or possibly just taking advantage of an opportunity.  Sadly, once inside they are out of sight. Now it is possible to rob all of them. Maybe worse.

Rob- Maybe worse. Wow.

Robyn- Whenever we are going to leave the relative safety of our house we need to first check out the area.  Use cameras, trim shrubbery, motion sensor lighting, eliminate blind spots, fences… Now is the time to minimize risk as much as possible.

Rob- Your 17 year old daughter can do that.

Robyn- Plan ahead…alarm button on the car key, little air horns, carrying OC spray.  Lots of things we can do now to prepare to defend ourselves.

Rob- How did this middle aged woman manage to draw and shoot a much younger attacker?

Robyn- There were 3 adult women involved in this incident. The attacker could really only focus on one at a time. If they operated as a team that would have freed up the other two women to stop the attacker.

Robyn- Advantages of working through what if scenarios.  Coordination, force multiplier, increasing situational awareness, increased commitment to train.  

Robyn- When he grabbed the intended victim by the coat and started forcing her back into the house.  Decision – fight here right now or wait for her turn.

Robyn – Imagine how different this would have been if all three women were armed and worked as a team.

Robyn – I train several shooters that are well into their 70’s.  We have a couple that train with us on a regular basis. The wife was 74 when they decided to get a gun.  Five years later they are certified range safety officers, have taken medical training, have taken legal training and regularly attend range events.  They have made sure that their children and grandchildren got training. They make me very proud!

Robyn- Back to our woman that is being attacked.  Gun was readily accessible on her body. No time to go get it.

Robyn- I am glad that as soon as he released her, she stopped shooting.  She also got the police on their way.

Rob- How do you manage taking a gun to church?

Robyn- Know your local laws.  

Rob- Anything else?

Robyn- That is enough for now. Our second story happened last week in Newman, Georgia.

Rob- Second Story-  Are you armed at church as you investigate a strange car?   

You’re the pastor of the Saint Smyrna Baptist Church. You notice a strange car parked at the edge of the church property on Wednesday afternoon. You walk up to the abandoned house owned by the church. A large man rushes out of the boarded up home. You call to him, but the stranger grabs you by the coat and butts you in the head. You fall down. The man rushes you again and you draw your firearm. You shoot your attacker. Now your attacker runs away.

You stagger to your feet and call for help. You have broken bones in your face and scratches on your eye.

Robyn- Wrong place at the wrong time..on his own property…on church property.

Rob- I wonder if some of the criminals were using the vacant house for drugs.

Robyn – Suffering from a mental illness, chemically altered, or just a really bad guy.  We don’t know why he was so determined to attack the pastor.

Robyn- The why really did matter.  The attack was in progress and defense needed to begin without denial or hesitation.

Robyn- My first reaction was that I wished that the pastor would have called the police to have them investigate the abandoned car.  

Robyn – It is legal to have OC spray in hand in public in most places.  Again always check your local laws.

Robyn-  Our pastor had been rushed, head butted and has fallen to the ground.  He did a good job of staying in control and in the fight. He was able to get to his gun and use the firearm effectively in such adverse conditions.  

Robyn- Train from unusual positions or with simulated physical limitations.  If possible find a training situation where this is possible and supervised.   

Robyn- As soon as he could safely call the police, he need to get the police and medical help to his location.

Our third story happened last week in Prospect, Connecticut.
G

Listen to Gun Freedom Radio at http://gunfreedomradio.com

Rob- Third story- Are you armed when you are looking for a used car?

There are lots of used car lots. Some are big and some are small. You hope this one is just right. You are inside talking to a salesman when you hear loud shouts from the backroom. You and the salesman stop talking. A second later you see two large men with masks over their faces yell and push one employee and then they begin to threaten another man and start beating him with their pistols. The victim screams in pain. The dealership is being robbed.

You own a gun. You have your Connecticut concealed carry permit. This evening, you’re armed, so you slide out of your chair, draw your firearm, and shoot the attackers. The two robbers run to the back of the building the way they entered. You go to the front desk and make sure the robbers have left. You’re shaken up and it is hard to re-holster your gun. The employees are calling the police.

Police say one of the attackers died at the back of the shop. He had a long criminal history including sexual assault, criminal assault with a firearm, and conspiracy to commit murder.

Robyn- The robbers were using their guns as a bludgeoning tool but no guarantee that they would not start shooting soon.  In either case the customer was in a deadly situation.

Robyn- It is a very complex environment – not familiar with employees, flimsy cubicle walls, stressful, dynamic situation.

Robyn- Armed on body.  Again we have a situation, that there is no time or opportunity to go get the firearm.   

Robyn- In this case, the customer was able to shoot the attackers and they ran away.  The attack was stopped.

Robyn – The physical attack is only part of the battle.  There is a potential legal battle in criminal or civil court.     

Robyn – The armed customer had to make several decision very quickly.  It is a good exercise to work through what if scenarios when you enter a new environment.  

Robyn – The decision to intervene in the defense of others is complex – increased risk of injury or death and the legal repercussions.  Very complex and personal decision.

Robyn – Remember that the armed customer had obviously decided to prepare.  The customer had money and time invested in tools, training and was carrying the gun.  The other customers could have made the same sacrifices. Their state of unpreparedness did not make them the customer’s responsibility to defend.  

Robyn- It is a personal decision that each person would have to make.

Robyn- As soon as safely possible, the customer needed to call the police.  

Our fourth story took place last week in Covington, Kentucky.

Rob- Fourth story- Are you armed when you’re spending a night at your parents house?

You’re visiting your folks. It is after midnight when you hear loud shouts from the center of the house. Something violent is going on so you grab your gun and creep down stairs. You see three large men dressed in black, wearing ski masks, and carrying guns. They are shouting at your parents and threatening them.  Their guns are pointed at your parents. You shoot the one in front and then aim for the second. Before you can fire again, the robbers have run from the house. You don’t chase them. You and your folks call police.

The police say the three robbers were looking for someone who hasn’t lived there for years. The police chief said what you did was in defense of yourself and other innocent victims so you wouldn’t be charged.

Robyn- My first question is how did the attackers get in the house?  Please lock your doors and use your alarm systems. Slow them down and draw attention to the intruders.

Robyn- You are outnumbered and your parents are facing a lethal threat.  These were really bad guys. It is a dynamic situation and you have to make sure that the parents are not injured.

Rob- This defender was probably crouching down as he came down stairs. Maybe he was shooting on the move. Where could I learn to do that?

Robyn – Classes and other training environments.  At our Scoot and Shoots, the participants have an opportunity to practice movement.  Now is the time to develop as much skill and proficiency as possible.

Robyn- It was obvious that the attackers did not think that their intended victims would fight back.  After one shot, they decided that it was not the fight that they were interested in and they needed to leave.

Robyn- I am glad that our good guy stopped when they ran away.  As soon as safely possible get the police and medical help on the way.

Exit-  Rob- that wraps up this episode. Robyn, thank you for helping us again. Where can we learn more about you?

Robyn- I’m at Step by Step Gun Training in Naples Florida.  We provide custom training courses as well as group classes. Leave a message for us on the Step by Step Facebook page.

Rob-Leave a message for me on the podcast facebook page.  

Robyn- We share this podcast with you for free.  We ask that you share the podcast with a friend and give us a rating on I-Tunes and Stitcher.  We’re also available on Google Play Music and Spotify.

Rob- This podcast is part of the Self-defense radio network at sdrn.us

I’m Rob Morse.  We’ll be back next week with more Self-Defense Gun Stories.

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Episode 132 with David Cole

Rob- Introduction- I’m glad you found us. Welcome to episode 132 of Self-Defense Gun Stories.

This podcast is for people who are curious about a firearm for self-defense, and for those who already own one. I’m your host, Rob Morse. We’re joined this week by self-defense instructor David Cole. How have you been?

David- Hi, Rob.  I’ve been working and shooting and hunting.

Rob- Please introduce our podcast to our new listeners.

David- We study several examples where gun owners survived a life threatening situation. Were they lucky, or did they have a plan? What should we do if we were in their place? Our first story took place last week in Midlothian, Texas.

Rob- First story-  Are you armed as you drive and go shopping?

You’re waiting in the car as your wife finishes her grocery shopping. You’re 58 years old. It is nine o’clock at night when two strangers walk by the car. The 21 year old man waves to you and says he hasn’t seen you in a while. The strange man jumps in the front seat and the 19 year old woman jumps in the back seat. That is when the man says “I’ve got a gun. I’ll blow your head off. The next words out of your mouth I’m going to send you to heaven.”

You are a concealed carry holder. You have your gun with you. You draw your firearm and point it at your attacker. Both of your attackers run from your car. You don’t fire as they run into the store. You call police. They arrest the pair after fighting with them. Both of your attackers are charged with aggravated robbery and resisting arrest.     

Rob- You were a police officer. How often does this sort of robbery happen?

David- Every few minutes. Glad he had a gun.

Rob- I agree.

David- I’m also glad that he was able to defend himself without firing a shot.

Rob- How unusual is that?

David- Not unusual at all. Some studies estimate as many as 93% of the time, no shots are necessary in a defensive gun use. Good that he didn’t shoot as the robbers ran away. In any situation like this, once the attacker disengages and flees, it isn’t self-defense anymore.

Rob- What would you tell your students to do.

David- First of all…Lock Your Doors! No one should be able to just walk up and hop into your car with you!

Our defender had his permit, but probably could have benefitted from more training. He was carrying in a pouch rather than on-body, which is usually not optimal. It’s too easy to become separated from your gun. He drew but didn’t fire, though he believed he had an armed attacker in the car with him. I’m pretty confident that he would have been justified in shooting, though he decided not to. Of course, the decision whether or not to pull the trigger is up to the individual…I can’t make that decision for you. In this case, it turned out that the suspect was actually feigning that he had gun and was actually unarmed; it’s fortunate no one had to kill, and no one had to die. But fortune is another word for luck, and there are two kinds of luck. It could just as easily turned out that the bad guy was actually armed and prepared to shoot, and the victim’s hesitation (along with his choice of carry method) could have cost him his life.

Rob- Is it easy to present a firearm quickly, or does it take practice?

David- Everything takes practice.

  • Loading and unloading takes practice.
  • Safe storage takes practice.
  • Drawing and firing from concealment takes practice, especially seated in a car.

In this case, I want my students to get out of the car and stand up before they reholster their firearm. That is safer than trying to re-holster your gun as you’re sitting inside your car. Even better, get a blue gun for that type of practice.

I like our defender’s attitude. He said, “They could have gotten into an automobile with somebody other than me that they would have taken them. If they left this parking lot, we may have never seen them again.” That is important because some robbers want more than your stuff, they want you. They like you being afraid and being hurt or killed. It is good that he was confident and courageous, but it just as easily could have gone the other way. A little bit of training and practice could have bettered his odds.

Rob- Wow. That is a lot to understand. Is there anything else, or can we go on?

David- That is a lot, but it’s enough for now. Our second story happened last week in Fayetteville, North Carolina.

Rob- Second Story-  Are you armed at when you go to sell your motorcycle?   

It is almost Christmas. Some of us need cash to buy presents. You decided to sell your motorcycle. You found a buyer on an online application. You agreed on a price and a place to meet. It is 8 at night when you arrive. They buyer looks at the bike. Then the buyer points a gun at you and says, give me the keys.

You’re a legal gun owner. You’re armed. You move, draw your firearm, and shoot your attacker in the chest. Your attacker drove away with his friend and was arrested at the local hospital. You stayed at the scene and called police.

David- I like this story because the victim defended himself. I’m glad he had his gun with him.

Rob- Was this the right thing to do, to shoot someone over a motorcycle?

David- This wasn’t a fight over a motorcycle. This was a proportional response to an immediate, unavoidable, threat to your life. You are allowed to defend yourself from an unlawful use of force, or the reasonable threat of it. The robber pointed a gun at his intended victim for the purpose of making the victim believe he would kill him for the bike. Unfortunately for the robber, his victim believed his threat and was prepared to do something about it. Our defender stopped when the robber ran away and the threat ended.

Rob- What do you tell your students to do.

David-  First and foremost is avoidance. While the victim did the right thing in choosing an open, public space for the meet, he was alone. If you don’t have a friend who can go with you, consider going to your local police department. Many of them are happy to have you use their parking lots for these sorts of exchanges.

Second, if all your awareness and prevention fail, and you have to go to the gun, be decisive. Be trained in a proper presentation from concealment, and be able to execute it quickly. Remember that in this case, the robber already had his gun out, so time is critical. Movement may well have been a factor as well. You need to be able to do these things while moving to safety.

Rob- Where can they learn that?

David-  Fortunately, more and more gun stores, commercial ranges, and clubs are offering good quality training. Another great avenue for honing these sorts of skills is competition. USPSA, IDPA, and even simple steel plate matches are great opportunities to work at least two of the three components of the “Combat Triad”…marksmanship, gunhandling, and mindset.

Rob- You’ve been studying martial arts for years. How long does it take to learn to defend yourself with a handgun. When are your students competent?

David- The short answer is that the learning never stops…at least it shouldn’t. And you know that I am a believer that even minimal training is often “enough”…but more training is better. And it’s really an odds game…there are no guarantees, but you can absolutely improve your odds. Any time spent in quality training and practice will help!

Rob- How long does it take to learn to present a firearm from concealment?

David- Our third story happened last week in Moss Point, Mississippi.

Rob- First this message from

Please support Doctors for responsible gun ownership, DRGO.us

Rob- Third story- Do you have a gun nearby when you wake up unexpectedly?

It is 8 in the morning when you hear something happening in your garage. You get up and pull on your pants and your gun. You walk to the center of your home and hear someone at your front door. A stranger says, ‘No one’s home.’

Your front door is kicked open and two men rush inside. You shoot them. One runs away. You back up to your bedroom and call police.

The second criminal was arrested when he was dropped off at the hospital with life threatening injuries.

David- Daylight robberies become more common as the economy improves. The burglars thought the owner was at work.

Rob- So you’ve seen this sort of thing before?

David- This is the bread and butter of police work.

Rob- What did our defender do right?

David- Looks like he shot well. POGO. Defend yourself from the immediate threat. Stop shooting when the threat goes away. Retreat to a safe location, and call police.

Rob- What should we do that might be better?

David- Call the police before you go investigate. I don’t think it would have made a difference in this case, but often the criminals will enter the far end of the house. That lets you lock the bedroom door and let the police to toe-to-toe with your robbers.

David- Our forth story took place in Georgetown, South Carolina.

Rob- Fourth story- Are you armed as you work at a cellphone store?

and https://www.southstrandnews.com/crime/georgetown-carjacking-suspects-arrested-in-columbia-after-attempted-robbery/article_e5ee21d0-effa-11e8-969f-636bffa0f96c.html

Here are two stories with two different results. In the first story, you’re getting in your car parked in a Walgreens parking lot. A woman points a gun at you and tells you to get out of your car. You jump out and the robber drives away.

The next day, a different person is working in a cell phone store. A man dressed as a woman comes in and points a gun at you and demands you open the cash register. You’re a legal gun owner and you’re carrying concealed. You draw your gun and shoot your attacker. He runs out of the store, firing his gun as he runs away. Your robber dumps his stolen getaway car. Both the man and the woman carjacker drive to nearby city. They are arrested as they drop the wounded man off at the hospital.

David- For the first situation, just like our first story today…Lock Your Car Doors!

Now in the second…Both victims faced a lethal threat, but one of them could defend themselves because they had a gun.

Rob- That made it moral to use lethal force in self-defense?

David-  Moral and legal. If someone attacks with lethal force…or the reasonable and imminent threat of it…you can defend yourself.

Rob- Why didn’t the bad guy fall down and die when he was shot?

David- The attacker was shot in the stomach and that can be a lethal wound, but it won’t stop the attacker quickly. This was what we would refer to as a “psychological stop,” where the attacker decides he doesn’t want to leak anymore and leaves.

Rob- What do you recommend for your students?

David- There are really three ways a gun stops a violent attack. The psychological stop we discussed a moment ago, or through organ failure caused by blood loss (which also takes time), or through a hit to the central nervous system which “turns off the main breaker.” Learn to shoot a self-defense handgun. Shoot until the threat ends.

Rob- Did you see a lot of robberies like this as a police officer?

David- Fortunately, no. But that only means it was uncommon in my town. They do happen, and while the odds may be low, the stakes are high. And also fortunately, while it does take some effort to be personally prepared, it is doable!

Exit-  Rob- that wraps up this episode. David, thank you for helping us again. Where can we learn more about you?

David- My training website is Aegis Solutions  on Facebook. I also write about gun rights at BlackManWithAGun.com

Rob- Leave us a message on the podcast facebook page.

David- We share this podcast with you for free.  All we ask is that you share the podcast with a friend and give us a rating on I-Tunes and Stitcher.  We’re also available on Google Play Music and Spotify.

Rob- This podcast is part of the Self-defense radio network at sdrn.us

I’m Rob Morse.  We’ll be back next week with more Self-Defense Gun Stories.

 

~_~_

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Episode 131 with Elizabeth Hautman

Rob- Introduction- I’m glad you found us and welcome to episode 131 of Self-Defense Gun Stories.

This podcast is for people who are curious about a firearm for self-defense, and for those who already own one. I’m your host, Rob Morse. We’re joined this week by self defense instructor Elizabeth Hautman.

Elizabeth- Hi, Rob.  I’ve been working and shooting and selling gift certificates for the holidays.

Rob- Elizabeth, how do you listen to the show?

Elizabeth– I listen to it on Itunes.

Rob- That is how most people listen. Please put us in your pocket every week, and give us rating on I-Tunes and Stitcher. Please leave a comment to tell us what you liked about the show.

Please introduce our podcast to our new listeners.

Elizabeth- We study several examples where gun owners survived a life threatening situation. Were they lucky, or did they have a plan? What should we do if we were in their place? Our first story took place last week in Thomasville, Georgia.

Rob- First story-  Do you have your firearm on you when you go to your bank?

You’re walking out of the Suntrust bank at 2 in the afternoon. A man walks up besides you. He grabs your arm and he tries to grab your purse. You pull your purse away from him, but he draws his gun and demands you hand over your purse. You draw your gun and the robber runs away. You go back into the bank and call police.

Elizabeth- Good she had an attitude to not be a victim.

Rob- Before you tell us more, is this sort of robbery unusual? Someone walked up to this lady in daylight right outside a bank.

Elizabeth-  Good she had a gun

Rob- What else do you see?

Elizabeth- I wish she’d had more practice because she drew her gun while someone else had their gun pointed at her, and she did not fire her gun. That makes me think she was slow and her attacker might not have had a real gun.

Rob- Does she have the right to defend herself from being robbed?

Elizabeth-  

Rob- What do you want your students to do in this situation?

Elizabeth- Let’s wait and I’ll explain that during our second story?
Rob- What is the minimum training you want someone to have before they are safe to carry a firearm in public?

Elizabeth- Safety. Safe storage. Loading and unloading. Basic handling.

That is enough for now. Our second story happened last week in Shively, Kentucky.

Rob- Second Story-  Are you armed as you drive your car?   

You’re going back to your car after doing your shopping. It is a little after 9 at night. Two men approach you and ask you for a light. You reach into your car for a lighter, and you’re facing a gun to your head when you turn back around. You move and draw your own gun. The attackers shoot at you as they run away. You shoot back. The robbers missed you. Other witnesses say your attackers limped as he got into a getaway car.

Police arrest both robbers at a nearby hospital where they sought treatment. In addition to robbery, one of your attackers had an outstanding warrant for his arrest.

Elizabeth, explain why the victim had a right to use lethal force to defend himself?

Elizabeth- Immediate and unavoidable threat of death.

Rob- Well that is pretty clear.

Elizabeth- Also, this might have been avoidable. Don’t hang around outside the store in the dark. It is a transition space and people can appear out of the darkness and cause problems for you.

Rob- We have holiday shopping coming up in a few weeks. What else?

Elizabeth- Thank goodness he had a gun and the training to use it.

Rob- What did this victim do that was different from the victim in our first story?

Elizabeth- He had a plan and he practiced.

He moved as he drew his firearm. He quickly presented his firearm and shot his attackers. Our third story happened last week in Spokane, Washington.

Rob- First this message from my good friends at FASTER Colorado.

Please support Coloradans for Civil Liberties

Rob- Third story- Are you armed while you’re at work in the evenings?

You own a convenience store. Tonight you are behind the checkout counter. The next customer walks up and instead of dropping some chips on the counter or saying he wants to pre-pay for gas, this man is wearing a bandana over his face and has a knife pointed at you. The robber says, “Give me the money.”

You take a step back and draw your gun from under the counter. Before you say anything, the robber is running out the door. You call 911 and then show the police the video from your security cameras.

Elizabeth- Good work, but that isn’t best practice. That isn’t what I want my students to do.

Rob- What should we do if we faced a man with a knife?

Elizabeth- A knife is a lethal threat, so you have the right to use lethal force to stop that threat and save your life. It is your duty, and you have to think about how to perform that duty before you face the threat. There are lots of times during the day when the store owner is away from the cash register and I want him to be able to protect himself all the time.  You don’t have a gun to protect the money, you have a gun to protect your life, so have the tools you need on your body where you need them, not at the cash register.

Rob- OK

Elizabeth- I’m glad the store owner had a gun, but I want him to get much more training.

Rob- Why do you think he wasn’t proficient with his firearm?

Elizabeth- It is one motion to clear your garments away from your gun, grab your gun, present it in front of you as you put your hands together, see the gun sights on the target, and press the trigger to fire. If he practiced, then that is one motion and one thought, but our defender didn’t fire. That means our defender was slow and the attacker had time to run away. Good decision for the defender to not shoot once the robber turned and started to run.

Rob- You’re saying that presenting your gun and shooting is a single action, like clapping your hands.

Elizabeth- Yes, it is that fast. Once you decide to shoot you’ve got a shot on the way in a little over a second. That isn’t enough time for your attacker to see your gun, decide what to do, turn and move toward the door.  That is why we know that this defender needs to practice.

Let’s move on. We go to Natchez, Mississippi for our fourth story.

Rob- Fourth story- Are you have a firearm where you can get it as you get out of bed?

Your wife shakes you awake at little after sunrise Saturday morning. She says she heard someone moving around outside and knocking at your front door. You live in a gated community. You have a gate to your property and you are not expecting visitors. You look out your window and notice that the doors are open on your truck sitting in the driveway.

You pull on pants and put on your gun. As you walk out to your truck, you notice that the doors are open on the cars in your garage too. A stranger is sitting in one of your cars. You walk up, point your gun at him, and tell him not to move. Your wife has already called the police. The robber was charged with four counts of burglary and a misdemeanor charge of malicious mischief.

Elizabeth- Good that he had security cameras. Bad that he didn’t use them until later when he showed them to the police.  Good that he had a gun. Bad that he didn’t call the police and let them arrest the robber while our defender stayed inside and kept his family safe. You don’t want to kill someone to protect your truck, but you must protect your family.

Rob- When to your teach your students about the right and the wrong time to use lethal force?

Elizabeth- What classes come before and after legal use of lethal force?

Exit-  Rob- that wraps up this episode. Elizabeth, thank you for helping us again. Where can we learn more about you?

Elizabeth- I instruct in Colorado Springs.  I teach small classes at my private range in Black Forest.  Students can contact me at Colorado Boots Firearms Instruction.

Rob- Let us know what you think by leaving us a message on the podcast facebook page.  

Elizabeth- We share this podcast with you for free.  Please share the podcast with a friend and give us a rating on I-Tunes and Stitcher.  We’re also available on Google Play Music and Spotify.

Rob- This podcast is part of the Self-defense radio network at sdrn.us

I’m Rob Morse.  We’ll be back next week with more Self-Defense Gun Stories.

I gave you this article for free. Please like and share in return.
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Episode 130 with Staff

Rob- Introduction- I’m glad you found us and welcome to episode 130 of Self-Defense Gun Stories.

This podcast is for people who are curious about a firearm for self-defense, and for those who already have a gun of your own.. I’m your host, Rob Morse. Because of our schedules, this is a review episode. I search for stories where the defender did not shoot their gun. Too often those events don’t make the news. I’ve collected three of them for this episode.

Our first story took place in October 2018, and Jeff Street was our instructor.

Rob- First story-  Are you armed as you have a yard sale at your parents house?  

Your mom and dad are having a yard sale, and you said you’d stick around to help. Your mom saw someone stuffing clothing into her handbag. Your mom and dad asked her to stop that. Instead of returning the items, the stranger sprayed you mom and dad with pepper spray, and tried to stab your dad with a knife. You stepped inside and got the family shotgun. You pointed the shotgun at the attacker and told her to leave.

She saw the gun and ran.  You called police. The police said the young woman was lucky she was not shot and killed.

Jeff- 1st let’s look at avoidance.  We try to keep the pool of people who have been on our property or inside our home to a minimum.  In our neighborhood the nearby county park lets you rent a space once a month for a community yard sale.  They had no clue who would show up to their property.

This crazy woman looked normal in her mugshot photo.

I like this story because it’s the most likely defensive gun use scenario in that no shots were fired.  The scarry shotgun got the job done. You still need to call 911 as soon as possible so law enforcement can hear your side of the story 1st. This type of Defensive gun use rarely makes the news.

Of course we must add POGO pants on gun on.

Sounds like she had mental health issues.

The time while you went inside to get a gun could have cost your parents their lives.

Have a good plan. “We’ll get our gun.” might not work if it is hundreds of feet away while you’re out at your mailbox. You only have the tools that are within reach.

Jeff- Having a gun can stop the confrontation from escalating, so it would have been better if the family was armed with firearms on their bodies.

Rob- Do you talk to your students about what to do if someone in your family is attacked?

Rob- This took place at a yard sale. In your shooting classes, do you include targets that you don’t want to shoot?

Rob- What did our defender do correctly?

Jeff- Good restraint that the son tried verbal commands and did not shoot when he saw that the verbal commands worked. Good restrain in not following the attacker.

Rob- I’m imagining that someone tried to stab my dad. I can’t holster a shotgun, so I have to go back inside and put it away. I have the same problem with a handgun if I don’t have a holster. What do I do with the gun when I need two hands.

Next question is, can I stop the bleeding?

Our second story took place in July 2018.  Robyn Street was our instructor for that episode.

Rob- second story Are you armed at home?

It is well after dark when you hear someone knocking on your front door. You check your doorbell camera and don’t recognize the woman standing on your porch. The stranger says her friend lives there. The strange woman is obviously confused, and she also sounds increasingly angry as she demands to be let in. You call police. The strange woman rips the screen door off your entryway and the screens off your windows. Your doors and windows are locked. The intruder throws herself an your door over and over, then starts banging on your windows.

You tell her you have a gun and to go away. Police arrive a moment later and arrest her. The intruder is a 30-years-old and she was drunk. She faces charges with vandalism.

Robyn- The homeowner, a retired police officer, had a gun and was mentally prepared to use it to defend herself.  This was something that our homeowner had already envisioned as a possibility. She had done a good job of hardening her home.  The doors and windows were locked and secure, camera was installed and operating, phone was charged and in hand, gun was available and ready to use.  Hooray.

Robyn – I love the fact that she had installed a doorbell camera.  She could identify the person at the door without compromising her security..  I am not sure if the camera had a speaker but regardless she also issued clear verbal commands to leave.

Robyn – She did so many things right.  She called the police and got them on the way. A further benefit to calling 911 is that they can give you updates on the position of help on the way, you can keep them updated on the location of the threat and on your location.  Finally, it is recorded in case any legal action is required.

Robyn- She was frightened..and she is a retired police officer.  She did a great job of analyzing the threat as it was unfolding. I think it is important for us to mention how upset she was sharing how  close she was to shooting the woman. Perhaps she had drawn the red line at crossing the threshold of the house. She was prepared and stayed in control.  She had police on the way but they were not there yet. She was her own first responder. If we find ourselves in a similar situation this would give us a good mental map to follow.

Robyn- No shots fired.  I wish that every self defense scenario was like this one.  The preparations were sufficient to keep her potential attacker away.  Good job! Our second story happened North of Daytona Beach.

Rob- Our third story was with Amanda Suffecool as our instructor and it took place in October of 2017.

Rob- third story-  ARE YOU ARMED AS YOU RUN ON A JOGGING TRAIL BEFORE SUNRISE?

You’re running on a local trail before dawn. You hear a woman scream. You slow down and look to see where the screams came from. A man is holding a woman on the ground and she’s fighting him. You grab your flashlight and a gun from your fanny pack. You shine the light on the couple. The man is sitting on top of the woman, and pressing his hand over her mouth. You see her struggle.

You point your gun at the attacker and tell him to get away from the women. He does, but he runs away with her shoes and her shorts. You let him go.

Police report that the woman was attacked from behind and then dragged off the running trail. The victim identified her rapists as a homeless young man who has been previously charged with felony assault and eight misdemeanors including two charges of indecent exposure.  All these charges were filed within the last two years.

Amanda- She fought, and her screams brought help.  A Concealed carry does not make us an auxiliary police officer – yet at the same time we need to do what we can.

Amanda- the life you save may not be your own.   Preparedness and practice are critical when you are called to make instant judgments when yous and someone else’s life is on the line.

Amanda- Don’t wear earplugs when you run in strange places.  Or music, or…..

Amanda- Bring your own gun rather than rely on others.

Rob- We often tell students to avoid other people’s fights. She did make the choice to run in the dark without any tools of self-defense.

Amanda- We live in a society where selfishness abounds.   There is a line where it’s not your fight – but could you live with yourself if you just ran on.   In this case – No shots fired. This is a win on so many levels.

Rob- That wraps up this episode. Let us know what you think and leave us a message on the podcast facebook page. Please share the podcast with a friend and give us a rating on I-Tunes and Stitcher.  We’re also available on Google Play Music and Spotify. This podcast is part of the Self-defense radio network at sdrn.us

I’m Rob Morse.  We’ll be back in a few weeks with more Self-Defense Gun Stories.

I gave you this article for free. Please like and share in return.
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Episode 129 with Ben Branam

Rob- Introduction- I’m glad you found us, and welcome to episode 129 of Self-Defense Gun Stories.

This podcast is for people who might be curious about a firearm and for those who already own one for self-defense. I’m your host, Rob Morse. We’re joined this week by self defense instructor Ben Branam.

Ben- Hi, Rob.  I’ve been working and shooting and teaching..and driving a lot.

Rob- Ben, how do you listen to the show?

Ben– I listen to it on my  phone as I drive.

Rob- That is how most people listen. Please put us in your pocket every week, and give us rating on I-Tunes and Stitcher. Since iTunes and Stitcher lost our show, please go to their sites and give us a rating.

Ben, please tell our new listeners what to expect.

Ben- We study several examples where gun owners survived a life threatening situation. Were these defenders lucky, or did they have a plan? What should we do if we were in their place? Our first story took place last week in the Bronx borough of New York City.

Rob- First story-  Are you armed in your small grocery at closing time?  

It is 10:30 at night. The flow of customers is finally slowing down. You’re taking care of one customer after another and now you get a chance to clean up. A stranger comes in and says, “Give me your money.” You’re one of the few people in New York who have a permit to have a gun at home and at work. You are armed in your store tonight. You back away from the cash register, but the robber jumps up on the counter right in front of you.

With the robber towering over you, you draw your gun and fire. The robber stops advancing, so you stop firing. You move to the back room and call police.

Rob- Was this a situation that demanded self-defense including lethal force?

Ben- Position of advantage.

Rob- What did our defender do correctly?

Ben- Create distance. Stop shooting. Call police.

Rob- What would you tell your students to do if they were in this situation?

Ben- It wasn’t clear if the store owner had is gun in a holster on his body. You might not have time to get it unless it is with you.  Having your gun in your holster on your body also gives you a safe place to put your gun after you use it. I say that because after you’ve shot someone, you don’t want to run through your store with a gun in your hand.

Rob- What should you do after you’ve defended yourself?

Ben- Honor the witnesses.

“Stay down. Is anyone hurt? Please stay where you are so you’re not attacked.”

You don’t know if there is another robber waiting outside. You don’t know if this robber had another weapon. Look around and see if anyone else is hurt.

“I’m calling the police. Does anyone need immediate medical care? Check to see if someone in your aisle is hurt.”

This article didn’t include a video. An in-store video surveillance system can save you thousands of dollars in legal fees. You might end up in court even if you did everything exactly right. The video system can keep you from being arrested in the first place.

Have a lawyer and call them to make a formal statement to the police.

Rob- Do we see robberies very often?

Ben-
Rob- Anything else?

Ben- That is enough for now. Our second story happened last week in Tulsa, Oklahoma.

Rob- Second Story-  Are you armed when you have out of town guests staying with you overnight?   

Your house is full. You have old friends who are staying with you to avoid some storms. Your daughter is also visiting you. Your daughter’s ex-boyfriend came over, but she asked him to leave. Unfortunately, the ex-boyfriend came back at about 5 in the evening. He tries to get in the front door, but that is locked. He tries to get in the back door, but that door is locked too. He breaks into the garage, and then breaks through your door to the garage. You shout for him to leave, but he advances toward you. You shoot him when he advances toward your family and guests.

Ben- It doesn’t say, but I’ll bet that the mother and daughter were on the phone to the police before the ex-boyfriend broke the garage door and charged the homeowner. That is a good plan because it means that you wanted the police there and establishes you as the good guy asking for help.

The situation would have been entirely different if you’d gone outside to hunt this ex-boyfriend. That is not self-defense.

Rob- Was the homeowner legally justified in using a firearm?

Ben- Castle doctrine in Oklahoma

Oklahoma statute says you have grounds for self-defense if your attacker unlawfully broke into your home, your car, or your business.

Also, there are five of you, so you may not be able to safely retreat without leaving someone behind.

Rob- So I can shoot someone who breaks into my home?

Ben- Intrusion isn’t enough of a reason to shoot. You need to be at risk of an attack. If a young couple’s car breaks down, and they break into your garage to get out of a storm, you don’t have a hunting permit to shoot them as their hands are raised. We have a name for people who do that. They are called murderers and they go to prison.

Rob- What would you tell your students to do if they were in this situation?

Ben- The attacker was probably on drugs. Retreat if you can. Defend yourself if you must. Practice with your family so you all know what to do.

Rob- What could that family plan look like?

Ben- There are several task that you want to do at the same time.

-Who has armed defense?

-Who calls the police?

-Who takes care of the children or guests as the situation develops?

-Do you have solid doors on the room where you want to hide?

You have a very solid case if the crazy intruder is still there with a bruised shoulder as he is trying to break your solid door when the police walk in. I mean it that you don’t want to shoot people. Gunshots are messy, and a solid door and good locks are way cheaper than having to repaint your house because you shot someone in your living room.

Rob- I’ve heard you talk about a solid core bedroom door before.

Ben- Right. Little Ben Branam has a safespace.

In this case, I wish this homeowner had safety film on the glass near the door to his garage. That would have bought this family more time to retreat and more time for the police to arrive. I put the link in the show notes if you want to buy that film.

Rob- Are break ins like this fairly common?

Ben- They happen everywhere.

Rob- Is there more, or should we go on?
Ben- Let’s go on. Our third story happened last week in Taft, California.

Rob- First this message from the Crime Prevention Research Center.

 

Please support the Crime Prevention Research Center at
http://crimeresearch.org/

Rob- Third story- Are you armed at home while your kids are asleep?

 Your children wake you up Sunday morning. They want to use your laptop, but they can’t find it. You tell them it is on the table, but the kids say it isn’t there. You get out of bed and start to look for the missing laptop. You know you used it last night. Someone has also dumped out your purse and gone through it. That is when you hear your 7 year old daughter scream. You run to her and see her running back inside the house from the garage. There is a stranger in your garage.

 You put all the kids into the back room. Then you get your gun. This is the gun you bought only two weeks ago. You open the door to the garage and see the intruder in the corner. You tell the intruder that you’ll shoot him if he comes any closer.

 Then you call the police. The police arrest the intruder a few minutes later.

 Ben- Well that is an ugly way to start a Sunday morning. Holding a gun and making a phone call is really hard to do.

Rob- What did our mama bear do correctly?

Ben- She sent the kids to the back room, and that was perfect. It sounds like she had a plan, and she gets a gold star for that. She also had a gun, so she gets a second gold star. She had a video surveillance system, but she only gets partial credit for that one.

Rob- Why does she only get partial credit?

Ben- There were no signs of a breakin, so she probably left the garage door unlocked. Lock your doors.

It turn out that mama bear had a surveillance system, and it captured the breakin. I bet she also had an alarm system..and she forgot to turn it on.

Turn on the alarms.

 Rob- What else did you notice.

Ben- You have kids in the home. That means your gun has to be in a rapid access safe because it has to be securely locked away from your children.

Rob- Ben, do you have a quick access safe for you AND one for your wife?

Ben- Not yet, but I’m working on it.

Rob- Talk about your security plan with the whole family. Who will move the kids. Who will call the police. Who will protect the family. Don’t hunt the bad guys over a laptop.

Rob- Why do you say not to look for the criminal. It turned out reasonably well this time.

Ben- The robber stole a laptop and bananas, and he was in the garage for a couple of hours. I think he was on drugs.

 When we look at the patterns of crime, there are usually several robbers. If they have guns, and more of them do all the time, then don’t get into a gunfight that you can avoid. Let the police do that because they wear body armor and , and dogs, and friends carrying shotguns.

 Rob- Anything else before we go to the next story?
Ben- A final gold star to this momma bear for not shooting the intruder in her garage. She was in Taft, California. If you point a gun at an intruder in your garage in San Francisco, then you might be arrested for aggravated assault. Remember the rules, and don’t put your finger on the trigger until you’re ready to shoot.

Rob- Good point. You’re going to be pretty nervous and you could fire by accident.

Ben- Our forth story was in Clarksville, Indiana.

 Rob- Fourth story- Are you armed when you go outside to investigate two women screaming for help?

 You’re getting ready for bed. You hear screams from outside your apartment. The voices sound familiar, so you go outside to see what is going on. A man is beating up your neighbor and your neighbor’s 9 year old daughter. You’re armed. You step closer and shout for the attacker to stop. He looks at you and he sees your gun pointed at him. You say you’ll shoot him if he attacks you. You tell him to sit down on the curb. The woman and her daughter move away from their attacker.

 The attacker gets up off the curb and comes toward you. You yell for him to stop and you take a step back. You shoot him as he closes the distance. Now he stops.

 You step back and call police and EMTs.

 Police take both the woman and her daughter to the hospital for treatment of their injuries. The attacker was declared dead at the scene.

 Ben- Are you going to get involved if you hear screams outside? It isn’t your duty to intervene. This woman could have had a gun of her own and protected herself, but she chose not to.

Rob- What about her daughter?

Ben- Good question, but why did this mother leave herself AND her daughter unprotected?

You have to think about this now. Otherwise you’ll be thinking about it for minutes while your neighbor and her young daughter are being beaten.

Rob- So you want us to make those decisions ahead of time?

Ben- As much as you can. This is a great example of why you need your tools with you. Suppose you run out to the street and shout for the guy to stop. He doesn’t stop, so then have to run back inside and open your gun safe? That isn’t a plan.

Rob- Is this a gun problem in the first place?

Ben- This attack was a lethal threat to the child. You could tackle the attacker. I weigh 280 pounds and I can lift 350. If you run up and you’re a 150 pound woman and the guy is my size beating a 9 year old girl, then this is definitely an immediate and unavoidable life threatening situation.

Rob- What happens next?

Ben- The beauty of having a holster is it gives you a place to put your gun once you’ve used it.

Call the police. Stay there if you are safe. Call your attorney. Give a very brief statement. Your attorney will give your full statement the next day.

Exit- Rob- You always give me a lot to think about. that wraps up this episode and thank you for helping us again. Where can we learn more about you?

Ben- Look for me at Modern Self Protection.com.  I live in San Antonio, and most of my classes are in central Texas.  I teach armed self-defense and church security. Listeners can see my class schedule at my website, and they can also listen to my weekly podcast Modern Self-Protection.

Ben- We share this podcast with you for free.  All we ask is that you share the podcast with a friend.  We’re also available on Google Play Music and Spotify.

Rob- Apple lost this podcast for a week, so we’re starting over. Please give us a rating on I-Tunes and Stitcher to let people know why they should listen.

Ben- This podcast, just like mine, is part of the Self-defense radio network at sdrn.us

Rob- I’m Rob Morse.  We’ll be back in a few weeks with more Self-Defense Gun Stories.

I gave you this article for free. Please like and share in return.
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Episode 128 with Amanda Suffecool

Rob- Introduction- I’m glad you found us and welcome to episode 128 of Self-Defense Gun Stories.

This podcast is for people who are curious about a firearm for self-defense, and for those who already own one. I’m your host, Rob Morse. We’re joined this week by self defense instructor Amanda Suffecool.

Amanda- Hi, Rob.  I’ve been working and shooting- just came back from Davenport Iowa where I got to shoot a fully automatic suppressed MP5..  that was fun and Chicago where I produced and modeled in a concealed carry fashion

Rob- Amanda, how do you listen to the show?

Amanda- I listen to it a couple of ways.   It’s on the . Self Defense Radio Network at SDRN.us and now it part of Self Defense Monday ( along with my show) on KRMARadio.com every monday from 4p to 4a.

Rob- That is how most people listen. Please put us in your pocket every week, and give us rating on I-Tunes and Stitcher. Please leave a comment to tell us what you liked about the show.

Please introduce our podcast to our new listeners.

Amanda- We study several news stories where gun owners survived a life threatening situation. Were these defenders lucky, or did they have a plan? What should we do if we were in their place? Our first story took place last week in Knoxville, Tennessee.

Rob- First story-  Do you have a firearm nearby when everyone is in bed asleep?

You wake up to hear someone beating on your front door.  It is 1:30 in the morning on a weekday. The pounding goes on for several minutes. Then you hear glass breaking at the back of the house. Your housemate shouts that someone broke through the back window. You grab your shotgun and wait in the hallway. You see the intruder, and he has a gun. You shoot him. Now your housemate calls the police.

Amanda- There are thousands of home invasion robberies every day. What‘s your plan if it happens to you? If you live alone you need a plan. If you live with someone then both of you really need a plan. Your family needs a plan.

Rob- So my plan has to change if my family is at home with me or if I’m home alone?

Amanda-  It sounds like this was a household of two guys. You need a plan so you don’t shoot your housemates or get shot by them. Talk about it now.

Also, consider if you could hide and let the police solve the problem for you. That depends on who else is in the house with you that minute.  AND the anticipated time for the police to get there.

Rob- So what does a plan look like?

Amanda- The story doesn’t say how the homeowner saw the robber. Did our defender turn on the lights? Did he have a flashlight? How could he see the robbers hands at the other end of the house.

Rob- I have to see the intruder to know if he is a threat.

Amanda- The law assumes that anyone who breaks into my house is there to do me harm, not take me to the prom. Also, this robber was armed, but you can’t assume that. You can’t assume that law in every state – know your laws…and they say you can’t assume very intruder is a danger to you.

Don’t shoot your drunk neighbor or your stupid drugged nephew..unless he is a lethal threat to you.

Rob- The story doesn’t say where the shotgun came from. They make it sound like magic. One minute it wasn’t there, and the next minute the homeowner has a loaded gun in his hands.

Amanda- Gun Safes since this is the middle of the night. A nightstand drawer isn’t secure.  There are a HUGE variety of gun safes that are quick access – available to you. Simply google Quick Access Shotgun Safe.  
Rob- Now that I’m armed, when can I use my gun?

Amanda- Not when they knock on the door. Not when they break the back window. You only use lethal force, and that includes a gun, when you face a lethal threat, and you feel ( and can explain ) why your life was in jeopardy.   Such as… an armed intruder standing in the center of your house – is an immediate unavoidable lethal threat.

THAT is why you can use your gun.

Rob- Anything else?

Amanda- Since you’re working on your safety plan, practice calling the police.  Where you are, what you need, who you are. What you look like.

Also, if you carry in public then you need insurance. If you had insurance you’d want to call them too because if someone fired a shot – there will be a criminal investigation and you are in the center of it.

That is enough for now. Our second story happened last week in Fort Valley, Georgia.

Rob- Second Story-  Are you armed at home when you’re getting the kids ready for school?   

Your wife drove off to work. Now you’re getting your young girls ready for school. You hear a crunching sound, and the next thing you know two strangers are standing in your living room. They start to grab your things, and you fight with them to push them back out of your home. The kids are in the back room. You draw your firearm and shoot your nearest attacker. Now, both of the intruders run off. You call the police..and try to explain what happened to your wife.

The police capture your wounded attacker. He is taken to the hospital with non-life threatening chest wound. You know this man. You’ve given him donations of clothes before.

Amanda- It says this was a break in, so I assume the door was locked. Good for them.  That is always a good habit to get into.

Rob- It also sounds like the homeowner was either wearing a gun or had it very close to him.

Amanda- I’d like you to go armed so you don’t have to fight off two intruders just to go get your defensive tools.   Its easiest to know where you put your gun, when its with you.

Rob- Was this a gun problem?

Amanda- You’re being attacked by two people in your home. You’re also defending your family. You could not retreat because your family was there. The fact that you were outnumbered and felt that they intended to do you and yours harm – means you were ‘in the right’ to use a tool to stop the attack.

You are NOT allowed to use lethal force if the six year old next door comes over and starts fighting with you. That is not an immediate, unavoidable life threatening danger to you or others. You can just push the little stinker out the door and send him home, and the law expects you to do that.

Also, nobody wants to be shot by a gun.  That is true if the gun is a 22 or a 45. All guns have the potential to deliver lethal wounds, but most handgun wounds are not fatal.

Rob- So even a shot to my arm could be fatal if it isn’t treated.

Amanda- Exactly. Not treated, or in the ‘lucky or unlucky spot’  We teach people to aim for the center of the chest in order to stop the attack because its the largest area with the most ‘critical to life’ organs.  

Rob- The pictures of people at the shooting range show the shooter standing very still with his arms stuck out and firing very carefully. This man’s living room didn’t look anything like that. This was a dogfight that involved firearms.

Amanda- You’re talking about target shooting, and I love target shooting. We teach that, but we also teach people how to defend themselves with a handgun. Self-defense is usually over in the blink of an eye.

Rob- Is self-defense complicated?
Amanda- Yes and no. Look at the range of topics we talk about each week and you can see that the situations are not that simple, but handling a gun is easier than driving a car. You didn’t learn to drive a car in a one hour class, and I can’t pour everything you should learn into your head in an hour either.

Rob- So step at a time.

Amanda- Step at a time.  And Practice, practice, practice.

Rob- Lets step on to our next story.

Amanda- Our third story happened last week outside of Gans, Oklahoma.

Rob- First this message from the Buckeye Firearms Association.

Please support Buckeye Firearms Foundation at https://www.buckeyefirearmsfoundation.org/

Rob- Third story- Are you armed when you’re ex-boyfriend has been drinking?

You have a restraining order against your ex-boyfriend. You also have a firearm in your purse. Your ex shows knocks on the door of your apartment. He says he’s been drinking and wants to lay down. You say no. He raises his arm to push his way inside. You shoot him once in the center of the chest and he stops.  You stop shooting. You call 911 and ask for police and medical services.

EMT’s arrive and call for a life-flight transport due to life threatening injuries.

The sheriff said this was self defense.

Amanda- If you have an abusive ex then get a restraining order.   That was the paperwork – filed in a time where your head’s not swirling, and emotions are running high.  You can think through and explain why you are feeling a threat from this person.

Rob- What does a piece of paper do?

Amanda- Going to court now for the restraining order can keep you from going to jail later.  It also puts them on notice that you will not be tolerating their BS. This is part of your defensive plan – but I also want you to change the locks, get good locks on your doors, and learn armed self-defense.  Look at the lighting, trim the bushes and any hiding places… read up on implementing a defensive plan.

Rob- Some of your students have been victims of domestic violence? How are they as students?

Amanda-  Well, Rob,  They are interested, They are engaged.  THEY know that there is one person responsible for  their safety – and its them.

Rob- What would you tell your students to do in this situation?

Amanda- Don’t open the door. Make them break the door down because you changed the locks and their key doesn’t work any more. This isn’t negotiable. Change where you live if your landlord won’t put in new locks.   Maybe change where you live, anyway.

Rob- She had her gun with her.

Amanda- In a purse. I’d rather it was on her body because we put our purse down when we get home.

Bad start for opening the door – Don’t- just dont.  Good restraint for stopping when the threat stopped.   Your job is to stop the treat, the medical teams job is to provide the medical help necessary so that you can then take them through the legal system.

Rob- One of our listeners sent in an local article. In this case, a local stalker had harassed over 20 women. The judge not only put the stalker in jail, but the judge provided free concealed carry instruction classes for the victims. The link to that article is in our show notes. If you listen on your smartphone, the link might be in your pocket. Thank you, Matt for the article.

Amanda- This is important because domestic violence and stalking victims think they are alone and powerless. Abuse is a disease of doubt, and this class let the recovering victims see that they are not alone and they are not powerless. It is a beautiful prescription and a powerful antidote to abuse. Now, get trained and carry.

Rob- Let’s go on to our fourth story.

Amanda- Forth story? We usually do three stories.

Rob- Our listeners left us a message on the podcast facebook page and asked for a fourth story. If you like more stories, then let us know. If you want a shorter podcast, then let us know that as well.

Amanda- Our fourth story took place last week in New Orleans, Louisiana.

Rob- Fourth story- Are you armed when you’re protecting your daughter from an abusive boyfriend?

Amanda- This is our episode for stopping crazy ex-boyfriends.

Rob- It is. Your daughter called you. It is late at night, but she heard from her ex-boyfriend. She’d taken out a restraining order, but the guy didn’t learn. You’re inside her home when the ex boyfriend tries to break into the house. You’re armed, but the door holds and he can’t get in. He stops shaking the door and you think he went away. You hope he went away, but you see him at the back of the house. He is trying to set the house on fire. Now, you go outside and tell him to leave. He moves toward you and you shoot him. That stops the attack and you stop shooting.

Your daughter calls police. You stay and talk to them. EMTs take the attacker to the hospital. He is arrested and charged with attempted aggravated arson, home invasion, domestic abuse battery, simple assault and simple criminal damage to property, and two counts of violating a protective order.

Amanda- If abusers learned then they wouldn’t be abusers. Get the restraining order because a few hundred dollars for a lawyer now saves you tens of thousands of dollars later if you have to protect yourself.

Rob- What else did you see?

Amanda- Abusers and their victims both normalize violence. That is why it was great that the victim called her dad. He doesn’t accept excuses, like that is just the way he is, or he was just trying to frighten me, or it won’t happen again.   That small eroding of confidence and space. Creeping in, getting closer.

Rob- Strangers see with clear eyes.

Amanda- And strangers carry their defensive tools. There was no time to go back inside the house, get your gun, load it, and then defend yourself. Like a fire extinguisher, you need it right now.

Rob- This happened at 10 at night.

Amanda- Bring a flashlight. You don’t want to shoot the neighbor who saw the fire and came over to put it out. You must, you must, identify your attacker before you shoot.

Rob- You mentioned a fire extinguisher. It would be good to have that.

Amanda- And mount them on the wall rather than leaving them in the litter on the bottom of the closet.

Again, I give the dad credit for stopping when the attack stopped.

Rob- Talk to us about talking to the police.

Amanda- if you have domestic abuse in your family, then you have to talk about it. We have the urge to keep it quiet. Talk about who to call, what to do, and what to say to the police.

Be brief until you talk to your lawyer before you give a full statement later..and you will talk to your lawyer if you even mention that you have a gun.

Brief, and it isn’t easy for me to be brief- I was attacked. I defended myself, I want the person arrested. I’ll swear that in a statement and testify. I was standing about here when I shot, so the shell casing should be about here. i’ll give you a full statement after I’ve talked with my lawyer.

Rob- Why do we talk to a lawyer?

Amanda- You and I don’t speak clearly. The lawyer will take our story the next day and present it in a way that can’t be twisted or misrepresented.  And they help you get it complete – with an event like this, your head is swirling, things are going through your head like a kaleidoscope. You need a clear, concise and complete story of what happened.  Right the first time

Exit-  Rob- Well I’ll take your statement and turn it into a podcast. Thank you again for helping us. Where can we learn more about you?

Amanda- You can find me at eye on the target radio radio. I have a nationally syndicated radio show on Sunday night. Give us a listen and call in and talk with us.  I also instruct on the weekends.

Rob- Thanks again for the comments you’ve left on our podcast facebook page.

Amanda- We share this podcast with you for free.  All we ask is that you share the podcast with a friend and give us a rating on I-Tunes and Stitcher.  We’re also available on Google Play Music and Spotify.

Rob- This podcast is part of the Self-defense radio network at sdrn.us

I’m Rob Morse.  We’ll be back next week with more Self-Defense Gun Stories.

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