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Episode 137 with Andee Reardon

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Rob- Introduction- I’m glad you found us and welcome to episode 137 of Self-Defense Gun Stories.

This podcast is for people who are curious about a firearm for self-defense, and for those who already own one. I’m your host, Rob Morse. We’re joined this week by self defense instructor Andee Reardon.

Andee- Hi, Rob. I’ve been working and shooting and just relocated to a more rural part of Maine. We’re getting ready to open up registration for the Women Who Shoot Retreat coming up in July. Very exciting.

Rob- I’m looking for spanish speaking hosts and instructors for a spanish version of Self-Defense Gun Stories. If you know someone, then please ask them to contact us.  Until then, Andee, please introduce our podcast to our new listeners in English.

Andee- We’ll report and examine several examples where gun owners faced a life threatening situation. Were they lucky, or did they have a plan? What should we do if we were in their place? Our first story took place last week in Las Vegas, Nevada.

Rob- First story- Are you armed at work?

You’re working in the back room of a small jewelry store. You hear some unexpected sounds from the showroom. It is about 5 in the evening. You get up and walk towards the front of the store. You see two men dressed in black. They have guns pointed at your customers and  at your fellow employees. They pull rope out of a bag to tie them up. You draw your firearm and shoot the robbers.

One robber runs. The other falls down after shooting you. Your co-workers call for EMTs and the police.

Andee- I’m glad our defender was armed. I’m glad he did not run away. He saved his co-workers lives.  It sounds like he did not rush into the store. He stayed in the fight and won even though he was wounded.

Rob- You’ve worked with small business owners. What do you tell them to do.

Andee- Avoid a gunfight if possible. You want to be able to shoot your attackers without giving them an easy shot at you. Use of cover is very important. Could you shoot from behind a doorway? Could you make the wall near the door out of something that will stop bullets, something like cinder block, brick or concrete rather than sheetrock?

It would be great to know what is going on in the showroom without walking in there. Can you set up video and have a monitor in the hallway and offices?

Andee- Let’s look at a larger picture. Can you secure the front door to the business so you have to buzz someone in? Put visible video monitors in the showroom. Have a panic alarm in your pocket and behind the counter. Think how differently this would have gone if every single family member and employee was armed rather than only one.

If that sounds expensive, compare it to the medical bills and the lost time from work this man has to pay.

Rob- How about learning first aid?

Andee- It didn’t say where the employee was shot but having tourniquet training and a heavy bleeding med kit could save someone’s life in a shootout. Learning how to use a tourniquet and chest seal doesn’t take long and is an important skill to have in an emergency.

Rob- Anything else?

Andee- That is enough for now. Our second story happened last week in Reidsville, North Carolina.

Rob- Second Story-  Are you armed as you stop to buy an energy drink?   

It is two in the morning. You need gas and an energy drink to stay awake. You pull off the highway and walk inside. Two men start shouting from the front of the convenience store. They tell everyone to come up to the cashier’s desk. They are dressed in black clothes, black gloves, and they have masks over their faces. You look closer, and see that they also have guns. Now you’re awake. They yell at you so you walk towards the front of the store.

You have your concealed carry permit. You’re carrying today. The masked robbers threaten the clerk and he gives them the money from the till. Then the robbers ask the man next to you for his money and cell phone. You step to the side, draw your firearm and shoot your attackers. They run and get in the car waiting for them. You and the other victims call the police.

The police arrest your attackers the next day.

Andee- POGO

Rob- That isn’t easy. You’re facing two attackers and they are both armed.

Andee- That is pretty normal. Criminals bring friends because they don’t want a fair fight. The two robbers faced three victims. That gave our defender a chance to move and draw.

Rob- How was our defender able to shoot his attackers without being shot?

Andee- They were distracted with robbing the other people. Whoever goes first gets a half second head start while the other guys have to process what he’s doing. Our defender moved, and that bought him even more time. Our defender had a plan. With practice you can shoot shoot someone several times in less than a second even though you’re drawing from concealment. But there is a trick. The first dozen times you practice you’re much slower.

Rob- I don’t understand?

Andee- You’ve seen small children take uncertain steps. We’re all like that the first time we learn a new skill. It takes practice to become fast. Starting slow to build good muscle memory and gaining speed as you become comfortable with the correct technique.

Rob- What else did you notice?

Andee- Call police and ask the other people in the store to call the police also. Ask the store to get the security video ready. Call your lawyer after you call the police.
Rob- Thank you for mentioning that. It takes some thought to get organized.

Andee- Having a plan lets you do the right thing when you’re too upset to think. We have a plan when we get into our car. We do lots of things in a routine way every day.

Our third story happened in Houston,Texas.

Rob- First this message from my friends at FASTER Colorado. I support them. I hope you will too.

Please support FASTER Colorado at Coloradans for Civil Liberties

Rob- Third story- Are you armed when you are out buying groceries?

You’re going to the bank and then doing some shopping with your spouse. It is about 2 in the afternoon when you walk up to your car and start loading groceries into the back. Two men get out of their car nearby and walk up to your wife who is standing near the driver’s-side door of your car. They point guns at your wife and demand her purse. You’re carrying concealed. You draw and fire at the two robbers. They run back to their car and drive away. You call police and stay at the scene. You’re not hurt, but it looks like the robbers let the air out of one of your tires.

The robbers crashed their car nearby. Police arrested one of them.

Andee- POGO. Pants On, Gun On.

Rob- What would you do in that situation?

Andee- I’m glad he was armed, but I wish she was too. That means we have to talk about purse carry. If her gun was in her purse then that is the first thing the robbers took from her.

Rob- Suppose I’ve decided that I want to carry a gun. What are all the steps I have to go through.

Andee- What is the gun for? If carry is legal in your state, then get a gun that you can carry concealed. You’ll need to consider a lot of things like how you will carry, where and what kind of holster you’ll be using.

Rob- Is that a good first gun for me?

Andee- Your first gun isn’t usually your only gun, just as the car you learned to drive probably isn’t the car you own now. Most people start learning with a 22 but I don’t recommend that for a carry gun. Get one that fits you. Remember, this is your FIRST gun. It isn’t an olympic style target gun so it should be simple to operate. It doesn’t have to fit in your pocket so it can be more comfortable to shoot. Go to a range that rents guns, and try some of them. See how they fit in the store and how they feel on the range when you shoot them. It helps to have an experienced friend go with you.  When I teach my classes I allow my students to try a good variety of popular concealed carry guns so when they are ready to buy they can make an educated purchase.

Rob- So becoming a concealed carrier usually takes a few steps?

Andee- Lets make you a safe and accurate gun owner. Then we can work on getting you a carry gun that fits your particular needs.

Rob- What are the considerations for a carry gun?

Andee- Are you a large man or a small woman? That makes a difference because the gun that fits you won’t fit me. How are you going to carry it? Can it go behind your hip, or will you be sitting down a lot and you need to appendix carry? Are you wearing pants, or are you a woman wearing a skirt so you might carry in a belly band?

Rob- It sounds like that takes some exploration and discovery.

Andee- Yes, but it’s fun. I love walking new shooters through the process. I teach concealed carry clinics for women to help them learn about the different guns and holsters out there.

In this case, the man was carrying concealed on his body. If I were in his place, I’d draw while I was hidden behind the car. Then I’d walk so I could see the attackers and start shooting. If I could, I’d like to keep part of the car between me and them. There’s always an advantage of using cover.

Rob- This is what you were talking about in the earlier story. It seems that this attacker got to shoot his attacker but they didn’t get shots at him.

Andee- He kept the advantage of attack and didn’t give them an opportunity to shoot back.

Our forth story took place last week in Wichita, Kansas.

Rob- Fourth story-  Are you armed as you stop for gas and a cup of coffee?  

You pumped your gas and then walked into the convenience store to buy a soda. You’re standing in line at between two and three in the afternoon when four young men rush into the store. They have guns and tell everyone to put their hands up. There are four of them, so you do as they say. They demand money from the store clerk. The robbers take the money and some cigarettes. The robbers then tell you to hand over your wallet. You have your concealed carry permit, or you did, since you just gave it to the robber in your wallet. You’re carrying concealed. The robber closest to you pats you to see if you have your phone.

You turn slightly, and reach for your phone. You also reach for your concealed firearm. You shoot the closest robber before your gun comes up. You shoot at the other robbers as they run out the door and then head to the back of the store. The robber closest you you falls to the floor. Everyone inside backs away from the register and calls police.

The other witnesses tell the police what happened. The police told you that these same young men probably robbed another store convenience store a few hours ago.

Andee- If someone starts to touch me, to pat me down, then there is going to be a gunfight because I don’t want them to disarm me. I will give up my money, but not my gun.

Rob- That is a lot to think about.

Andee- It is, but this gun owner had thought about it. He waited his turn to defend himself. He let them leave with his money, but the robbers forced the attack.

Rob- What do you tell your students to do?

Andee- Firearms safety. Safe gun handling. Practice until you’re comfortable. Learn how other people concealed carry and try the methods that work for you. Practice them until they become second nature. That takes several classes, but you can get there in about a month.

Rob- Anything else you notice about this story?

Andee- The robbers saw the man as compliant until he was given a good opportunity to reach for his pistol. He used that opportunity to catch them by surprise.

Exit-  Rob- that wraps up this episode. Andee, thank you for helping us again. Where can we learn more about you?

Andee- Look for me at EastCoastSchoolofSafety.com and on my facebook and Instagram pages with the same name.

Rob- Leave us a message on the podcast facebook page.

Andee- We share this podcast with you for free.  All we ask is that you share the podcast with a friend and give us a rating on I-Tunes and Stitcher.  We’re also available on Google Play Music and Spotify.

Rob- This podcast is part of the Self-defense radio network at sdrn.us My friend Kevin Creighton started a new instruction business. He teaching concealed carry classes in Naples Florida. Find him at Quietly Armed.  http://quietlyarmed.com/concealed-carry-classes/

I’m Rob Morse.  We’ll be back next week with more Self-Defense Gun Stories.

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Episode 124 with Robyn Street

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Rob- Introduction- I’m glad you found us and welcome to episode 124 of Self-Defense Gun Stories. This podcast is for people who are curious about a firearm for self-defense, and for those who already own one. I’m your host, Rob Morse. We’re joined this week by self defense instructor Robyn Street.

Hi, Robyn.  I see that you’ve been busy with clinics on the weekend and your women’s group during the week.

Robyn- Hi, Rob.

Rob- Robyn, how do you listen to the show?

Robyn- I listen to it on my iPhone on the apple podcast app

Rob- That is how most people listen. Please put us in your pocket and give us rating on I-Tunes and Stitcher. Please leave a comment to tell us what you liked about the show. Now that we’ve talked about how to listen, tell our new listeners what to expect.

Robyn- We’re looking at several new stories of armed defense.  These gun owners survived a life threatening situation, but were they lucky, or did they have a good plan? What should we do if we were in their place, and how would we learn those skills?

Our first story took place last week in Spanaway, Washington.

Rob- First story-  Are you armed at home early in the morning?

You and your mom hear a scream from across the street. The sun is just coming up. You get dressed and go next door to see what is going on. Your neighbor had been attacked by her ex-boyfriend. The neighbor already called police.

You and your mom walk back to your home and notice that the power is off. That seems suspicious. You grab the family gun. You are only 16 years old, so you can’t carry in public. A few seconds later the ex-boyfriend forces open your back door and attacks you with a knife. You push him away and fire your gun. Now he runs.

Your mom calls police. They arrest your attacker. He is charged with first degree assault,  burglary, and domestic violence.

Robyn- I would have preferred that the mother and daughter have called the police when they heard the scream.  There was also a vandalized car. Both of these are clues that it is time to plan for our own safety.

Rob-  We tell people to stay at home and call police, but the police had been called several times and were unable to stop the threat.

Robyn – They left the relative safety of their home to go to see what was going on at the neighbors house.  It does not appear that they had any plan to protect themselves or the neighbor when they went to check on the neighbor.  Lots of warning bells should be ringing in their head. I would prefer that they had stayed home planning for their own security.

Robyn – Domestic situations are very dangerous.  Highly emotionally charged. We are not sure, but perhaps that is why the ex-boyfriend attacked their house.  Perhaps he felt that they were interfering or preventing him from succeeding with his ex-girlfriend.

Robyn – I also imagine that it was quite possible that he was under the influence of alcohol or drugs.  Lots of variables were in place to make this a very dangerous situation.

Robyn- If they were worried, I think that they should have called the police and then called the neighbor to check on her welfare.  That would have been much safer for the mother and the daughter to stay in the relative security of their home.

Robyn – I have several questions about the 16 year old grabbing the family gun.  Where is it stored? Why didn’t the mother grab the gun? What training did the 16 year old have?  Did they have a plan on what to do if a bad situation was unfolding?

Robyn – the daughter heard a noise coming from the back door and saw the suspect standing in the doorway.  I hope the noise occurred because the door was locked and he had to break into the house. Now is the time to install study locks like dead bolts and to use them all the time.  It is also helpful to lengthen and strengthen the screws used to hold the door frame in place. This would discourage less motivated intruders, slow down the motivated intruders and make noise to provide a warning for the homeowners.

Robyn – I would also advise the mother and daughter to position themselves in a position the provided concealment and cover.  A place where they could see what was happening in the doorway and where they would not be close enough for the intruder to start cutting the 16 year old with his knife.  A firearm is a distance tool. She could have protected her family without being in close proximity to the intruder.

Robyn – the intruder told the 16 year old that she was going to die and cut her several time with his knife.  That is a tough young lady. She was not going to let him kill her.

Robyn – I am happy that one shot was enough to convince the intruder that he needed to leave.  He had not prepared for his intended victims to fight back. It certainly sounds like without the pistol this story would have had a very different ending.

Robyn –  I am glad that the police found the ex-boyfriend and I hope that this situation will be enough to keep him away from his ex-girlfriend and the neighbors for a long time.

Rob- What would you tell your students to do?

Robyn- I like for families to have plan about how to handle situations.  I wish the young woman’s mom would have been the one that was armed. She should have been the responsible adult protecting her child.  But we do not know all the details of their lives. I am glad the mother was at least on the phone with the police while the daughter was defending the family.  They needed to get help there as soon as possible!

Robyn- Our second story happened last week in LIncoln, Illinois.

Rob- Second Story-  Are you armed when you answer the door at sunrise?

It is just about dawn. You hear a crash from the front of your house. Before you could go outside to investigate, there is a crazy man rattling your door knob. Fortunately, the door is locked. You yell for him to go away. He breaks the side window and tries to reach inside. You shoot at him and  he runs away. You call police.

Police report that a madman has broken car windows and front doors all along your street.

Robyn – Here we go again.  Please harden your home. Strengthen your locks and use them.  I know that side windows can be pretty but not the best idea from a security point of view.  It does not take much money or effort but in a bad situation, you will be thankful that you have done everything that you could do to ensure your security.

Robyn- Don’t open the door.  Don’t go outside to investigate.  Stay inside and use cameras to gather information.  Call the police and let them come investigate. Until the police arrive, stay on the phone with 911 and put your self-defense plans into action.  Prepare for the worst situation and hope that the police arrive before you are forced to enact your plan.

Robyn – That brings up a good point.  You need to make plans now. It is easy to come up with plans and evaluate them and improve them while we are calm.  Planning also helps to eliminate the time that can be lost from the denial/justification loop. Planning also our brain to stay in control.  It is helpful for the brain to stay in a rational state and to say “well, we know this could happen let’s put that plan into action and protect ourselves.”

Robyn-  Have your tools with you and position yourself where you are prepared to protect and defend yourself.  

Robyn- That includes your phone, flashlight, other defense tools and medical supplies.

Robyn- Don’t fire through a door or window. If the door is in the way, then the intruder is still outside. Let the doors and windows do their job and keep the intruder outside.

Robyn- We replaced our windows with hurricane glass.  If flying trees aren’t going to break through, hopefully that would keep the brick from breaking the glass.  It can’t hurt and at least we tried.

Robyn- As long as the intruder is still outside there is still time to avoid firing the gun.  But it is certainly time to prepare in case the situation demand it.

Rob- We include links to these news stories in the transcript of the show. That is on our website, and some podcast applications put it in your phone as well.

Robyn -Our next story happened last week in Palm Beach, Florida.

Rob- First this message from my friends at DRGO

Please support Doctors for responsible gun ownership, DRGO.us

Rob- Third story- Are you armed as you run errands with your children?

You ran an errand while your 12 year old son was getting a haircut. Your 5 year old daughter is asleep in the backseat of your car. You park at the curb right in front of the barbershop. This is South Florida in September, so you leave your car running as you walk in to pick up your son and pay for his haircut. As you’re walking in, you hear a car door slam behind you. Someone is trying to take your car. You run to the passenger window and yell for him to stop. The car starts to move with your daughter still inside.

You have your concealed carry permit. You’re armed. You draw your firearm and shoot the kidnapper. Then you open the passenger door and guide the car to a stop.

Your attacker had a record of breaking into cars and not showing up for his court dates. Two days later the police say they will not file charges against you.

Robyn- I know it is inconvenient to wake a sleeping child but please don’t leave your child in the car.  

Rob- This happened very fast.

Robyn – So many things are going wrong.  The child is unattended in the car, the doors must not have been unlocked and the car was running for a quick get away.  Oh my…this is not good.

Robyn – I am glad that the father had his firearm on his body.  There was no time to go get it. Imagine if he had been storing the gun in the car.  When a bad situation develops you have the tools that you have at that moment and nothing else.

Rob- Was dad justified in using lethal force against a car thief?

Robyn- No. Dad was justified in using lethal force against a kidnapper.

Rob- What else?

Robyn- I like the line that said that he father drew his gun and ordered the kidnapper to stop.  But I have trouble with the next statement that he then opened fire. How many times did he shoot?  What was he hitting? Were any bystanders injured. Was the child injured? So many things could have gone wrong.

Robyn –  He slipped into the car and prevented it from crashing.  Brave and determined father stayed in control of the situation after things had gone terribly wrong.

Robyn – As soon as it was safe he needed to call 911 to get police and medical help to the scene.

Robyn- Our fourth story took place in Garland, Texas.

Rob- Fourth story- Are you armed as you meet someone to buy a camera?

You and your girlfriend are waiting outside someone’s home. You found a camera for sale, and you want to see it. The seller said he’d be there in a moment. That is when a stranger comes up and demands your money. You say you don’t have any. You attacker then pushes you and your girlfriend and says he knows you have money. You try to stop the attack on your girlfriend. Your attacker hits you. You draw your firearm and shoot him once.

Now you can withdraw and call police?

Preliminary reports indicate that the person selling the camera was the same person who tried to rob you.

Robyn- I hope that our listeners know better than to do this. Tell your friends not to do this any longer. Make sales at the police station.

Rob- A firearm is lethal force. I have to ask again if lethal force was justified.

Robyn- Best plan is to avoid this type of situation.  Planning might also have prompted you to have other tools to defend yourself – OC spray might have changed the attackers mind.   

Robyn – Protecting someone else is a bit more complicated.  In this case, he was confident that the girlfriend was innocent and was certainly in danger of death or grave bodily harm.  How many punches can his girlfriend absorb before she is incapacitated and lying defenseless on the ground? One? Two? This had to be stopped.

Rob- It is harder to run away if you have a partner with you. Do you talk about defending a friend, a spouse, a child with your students?

Robyn- We help families and friends develop plans about how to best defend themselves in bad situations.  It is very helpful to honestly evaluate the skills and limitations of each person. Each person needs to know how the other person will react to situations.

Robyn- Sometimes it is as simple as having a code word to let others know this is unacceptable and I need you to do exactly what I am saying or we need to enact our plan now.

Rob- Is there more?

Robyn – Call 911 to get police and medical help on the way as soon as possible.

Exit-  Rob- That wraps up this episode. Robyn Street, thank you for helping us again. Where can we learn more about you?

Robyn- I’m at Step by Step Gun Training in Naples Florida.  We provide custom training courses as well as group classes. (Ladys weekday at the range?) Leave me a message for us on the Step by Step Facebook page.

Rob- Let us know what you think. Do you like the longer podcast with four stories? Do you want more personal news from our instructors? Leave us a message on the podcast facebook page.  We have an inbox there if you don’t want to leave your message in public.

Robyn-  We share this podcast with you for free.  All we ask is that you share the podcast with a friend and give us a rating on I-Tunes and Stitcher.  We’re also available on Google Play Music and Spotify.

This podcast is part of the Self-defense radio network. Find the other shows at sdrn.us

Rob- I’m Rob Morse.  We’ll be back in a few weeks with more Self-Defense Gun Stories.

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Episode 120 with Amanda Suffecool

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Rob- Introduction- Welcome to episode 120 of Self-Defense Gun Stories.

 This podcast is for people who might want a gun for self-defense, and for those who already have one.  I’m your host, Rob Morse. We have firearms instructor Amanda Suffecool with us as co-host.

Hi, Amanda. How have you been?

Amanda- Hi, Rob.  I’ve been taking a short break from all things guns, to focus on my second life.  Aerospace engineering. But – thankfully – I am done with that, and now engaged in several cool things.   Nationally syndicated our Radio Show- Stay tuned for more news in September.

Rob- Please introduce our podcast to our new listeners.

Amanda- We’ll study three recent examples of armed defense.  These armed citizens survived a life threatening situation. What should we do if we were in their place?

Our first story took place last week in Republic, Washington.

Rob- First story-  Are you armed as you drive?  

You’re driving down the street. You’re 20 miles from the canadian border and there are less than two dozen streets in the entire town. It’s usually a quiet place. You’re parking in front of a clothing store when a stranger jumps through the open passenger window of your car. He shouts for you to get out of your car.

You own a gun. You have your concealed carry license. You’ve practiced with your firearm and you’re armed this morning as you drive.

The article does not say if you drew your gun while you were inside the car or outside, but you present your gun and order the robber to the ground. You tell him not to move. Police arrest the robber for multiple break ins he committed that morning.

The police facebook page described the event this way. “Crimes happen and they happen in the blink of an eye usually when you least expect them, even in small towns like Republic. I encourage the free exercise of our inalienable rights. If you go about your day unarmed and helpless, you are a victim waiting for a crime to happen. YOU are responsible for your protection, the police, even as hard as we try, usually only arrive after the crime.

“Get a gun, take a class and refuse to be a victim.

“Thank you to everyone who helps the police, we are you.”

Amanda- Most of us leave our gun up on the shelf and yet we carry this fantasy that we can use it for defense.

Rob- We pretend we’re armed at home, and that we don’t need a gun when we’re in our car. So you want me to go armed as I drive to the store?

Amanda- Rob, I know you think you’re special, but you’re special just like the rest of us. Yes, carry your gun. Even you, and even when you’re driving in your car. Make your firearms instructor proud of you.

Rob- Defending yourself inside your car is hard. Most of us don’t have training to do it. And it’s very different from what I practice at the shooting range.

Amanda- A gun is a defensive tool that works best at a distance. We want to be far enough away from our attacker that we can stop the attack before the attacker can reach us with his hands. That is why it was a good choice to step out of the car and then draw your gun.

Rob- Our driver didn’t have much time to think.

Amanda- No, he didn’t. Criminals attack us without warning. That is why we talk about these stories now, so that we have a model in place of what we could do in a situation like this. There are over 6 thousand examples of armed self-defense every day, and each one is different. Each of these gun-owners adapted their plan to their situation.

Rob- What else did you see in this story?

Amanda- The defender gave verbal commands.

(command voice) Stop. Get back. Get on the ground. Stay there.

That tells the criminal what to do. It also attracts witnesses. They might not be eye witnesses, they might be ear-witnesses. They heard you tell the robber to stop the attack. If you have to shoot, then those loud, clear commands have already started your defense.

Rob- So that is why my instructor had me shout “STOP” when he had me practice drawing my gun?

Amanda- Exactly. We want to build that habit as we practice.

Another thing. It is really hard to hold someone at gunpoint and get on the phone at the same time. The local police appreciated that our defender detained the robber. Larger police departments would tell you to let the robber go and get on the phone. You want to do that so you identify yourself as the good guy. I suspect that the witnesses called police in this case.

Rob- Lets go on to our next story.

Amanda- Our second story happened last week in Forest City, North Carolina.

Rob- Second Story-  Are you armed at home?

You hear the yelling and screaming. Your mom’s ex boyfriend threatened to cut your mom’s throat and to kill all of you. Now he’s choking your mom. Your older sister is trying to pull them apart and save your mom. It isn’t working. Your younger brother grabs your mom’s gun and runs toward the fight. Your brother is only 12 years old. You are 15, so you take the gun from your brother and shoot the attacker. Now he lets go of your mom.

Your family runs away and calls police. The police said your mom’s boyfriend was a convicted felon.

Amanda- Don’t date violent people.

Rob- Right

Amanda- Childproof your guns, and gun-proof your children.

Rob- Tell me more.

Amanda- This woman was terrorized by her violent boyfriend. She got a gun for self-defense. She should also have taken out a restraining order, or an order of protection. Even though it is only a piece of paper, it is an important step in your legal defense if you have to use force to defend yourself.

Rob- be hard to convict

Amanda- This is what I have to teach someone who was not a gun person and then they get a gun.

Storage.

Family training for safe handling

Personal defense

I’m glad her son could get to the gun. If your kids are old enough to be left alone then they are old enough to know about your firearms.

Rob- That is serious.

Amanda- Life and death. Our third story happened last week in Cool, California.

Rob- First this message

Please support the Crime Prevention Research Center at
http://crimeresearch.org/

Rob- Third story- Are you armed at home?  

It is after dark, and you hear someone knock at your door and call your name. It is your neighbors. All of them. The husband, the wife, and their child are asking to come in. You open the door. They said a crazy man broke into their home. They had already called police. You try to make them comfortable when your wife sees someone at your back door.

A stranger breaks through your screen porch and then breaks the glass in your back door. You yell for him to stop. He enters the home and you shoot him.

Now your attacker steps back outside the home. You and your family retreat and call police.

EMTs take the attacker to the hospital.

Amanda- This is the episode where second parties are armed. We had that in our first story too. It sounds like the intruder could have been intoxicated.

Rob- It is hard to reason with a crazy person.

Amanda- Do you have your gun on you right now?

Rob- Yes.

Amanda- Good. You don’t need a carry permit to go armed at home. You need a gun and to know how to use it

..and have a holster. A holster helps a lot.

Rob- Better yet if all four of the adults in this story were armed.

Amanda- That would have been good, and maybe that would have been enough to stop the attack without shots being fired.
I like that our defender stopped shooting when the attack stopped.

Rob- He did not chase the bad guy and keep shooting.

Amanda- At night? You don’t know how many people are outside your home. The crazy attacker may have had friends.

Our armed defender did the right thing. He moved his family and his neighbors to safety and called police. That identified the homeowner as the good guy, and he got help on the way.

Rob- Goodguys call police. Did the first family do the right thing to leave their home when they were attacked?

Amanda- If they didn’t have a tool to defend themselves, then they did the right thing. They ran to safety and called police. I’m glad their neighbor was able to protect them.

Exit-  Rob- And we’ve run out of time. Amanda, thank you for helping us again. Where can we learn more about you?

Amanda- You can find me at eye on the target radio radio. I have two radio programs and I instruct on the weekends.

Rob- Don’t you have a concealed carry fashion show in the works?

Amanda-?  Yeah I do.  At GRPC – Gun Rights Policy Conference in Chicago put on by the 2nd Amendment Foundation.   It should be the kick off to a good 2A time.

Rob- Some listeners asked us to put out a longer show. Some like it short. Please tell us what you like by leaving a message on the podcast facebook page.  

Amanda-   We share this podcast with you for free.  All we ask is that you share it with a friend and give us a rating on I-Tunes and Stitcher.  We’re also available on Google Play Music and Spotify.

Rob- I’m Rob Morse.  We’ll be back next week with more Self-Defense Gun Stories.

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Episode 95 with Tony Simon

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Rob- Introduction- Welcome to episode 95 of Self-Defense Gun Stories. This podcast is for people who might want a firearm, and for those who already have one and want to know how to use it.  I’m your host, Rob Morse.  We have firearms instructor Tony Simon with us as co-host this week..

Hi, Tony.  How have you been?

Tony- Hi, Rob.  I’ve been at home sick. I’ve been getting our training schedule and the Diversity Shoot schedule ready for 2018. And building “Rob’s Rifle“ a AR15 especially dedicated to introducing new shooters to the rifle at our events.

Rob- Tony, please introduce our podcast.

Tony- Each week we study three recent examples of armed defense to see what we can learn. Our first story took place last week in Fort Walton Beach, Florida. Here is what happened.

Rob- First story- Are you armed at home?

You are at home with your family. You’ve cleaned up after dinner. You hear your son shout. He says a stranger just came in and walked upstairs. You believe him. You say hide, and the kids scatter. You dash upstairs and get your gun. Then, you go door to door looking for someone who doesn’t belong here. You find him in your daughter’s room. The stranger took his clothes off. You order him to show his hands. His hands are empty. You order him to lie down and he complies. Your wife calls police. They arrive in minutes.

Police say the man has mental problems and had broken into several other homes.

Tony, what can we learn from this?

Tony- This is every parents nightmare. Good that he was armed with the mindset and tools to defend his home.

Rob- What would happen if dad didn’t have a gun?

Tony- Dad would have had to defend himself with his bare hands or a random item that he picked up as he searched his home for an intruder. That’s a horrible self-defense plan. He and his family seemed to have had a plan that was realistic. During the day his family was scattered throughout the home. The plan that you have for a midnight break in, when your entire family is in one part of the home, can’t be the same plan as when they’re in multiple areas.

Rob- So Dad had to go door to door to find the bad guy.

Tony- I think his son told him that the intruder went into his sister’s room.  There are a few things the family could have done better.

Rob- Tell me what do you see.

Tony-  Develop a culture of safety and security in your home. That starts with locking your doors. Many families have fire extinguishers that everyone knows how to use.  Some even practice fire drills. Locking the doors is the easiest step in keeping out unwanted guest. It may be a pain to have to keep unlocking the door with kids running around but imagine what could have happened if no one saw the stranger enter the home. He was nude and in the daughter’s room.

Rob- I think you’re right.

Tony- Also, POGO (Pants On, Gun On). Keeping your firearm on you should be a part of your security plan.  Here’s statistical data that’s easy to remember 100% of home invasions take place inside the home. Everyone chuckles when I  say that in classes but it is an obvious fact. There may not be a warning that a bad guy has entered your home. In this case dad would have to choose to leave his family with a dangerous naked man to go to get his firearm or stay and fight a naked man. I work in prison, even trained officers don’t want to fight the naked guy.

Rob- So dad was lucky.

Tony- Dad did a lot of the right things. We can learn from him and do even better.

Rob- Lots of people got guns for Christmas. Many of them made a new year’s resolution to learn self-defense. Talk to me about living with kids and guns in the same house.

Tony- Your self-defense guns should be loaded and on your body. If they are not on your body they should be secured in a quick access safe, secured in Concealment Furniture or secured so they can’t be picked up.

Tony- Our second story happened last week in Amarillo, Texas.

Rob- Second Story-  Are you armed at work?   

You’re the assistant manager at a small restaurant. It is late at night, but not that late. You’re usually open until 1AM. You hear one of your cooks shout from the back of the kitchen. You peak in and expect to deliver the usual lecture about horseplay. Instead, you see two strangers. One of them has ahold of one of your young cooks, and the second stranger is coming through the back doorway. They have a gun pointed at your cook. You’re armed. You shoot twice. The attacker lets go of your cook, but still has his gun. You shoot again. The robber drops his gun and falls to the floor. You look for the second robber, but he’s gone out the back door the way he came.

Tony- Not only did our good guy have a gun, he had it exactly when, where he needed it and had the skills needed to end a hostage situation.

Rob- So he carried. It wasn’t in the back office or on top of the safe.

Tony- Yes he carried and most likely he practiced.

Rob- Tell me more.

Tony- Many people hear this story and think it’s simple. See bad guy. Shoot bad guy. End of scenario. Not true at all. First the manager got his carry permit then carried the firearm on his person at all times. He truly believed that he needed to carry his life saving tool on him. I’m assuming that he got more training than a carry class because of how he handled himself. He heard “a shout” from the kitchen, that could have been anything, a hot pan burning someone or horseplay. He walked in the room to two bad guys and a hostage situation. He recognized that this was a life threatening situation, not a practical joke or a YouTube video. Drew from concealment, shot the bad guy,  accessed the situation, saw the bad guy was still was a threat and shot him some more.

Rob- that is a lot to think about.

Tony- Yes and it takes forethought and practice to be able to take in information, process that information, determine your course of action then perform that action. Along with  follow-up action if necessary.

Rob- And our manager did all that?

Tony- He did it like a champ. He shot an armed person that was holding another person hostage in a crowded kitchen. This wasn’t a range day or a class. This was his job. He had to snap into the correct mindset immediately.

Rob- That is what you teach your students?

Tony-  We teach using the crawl – walk- run method. After you leave class it’s up to them to practice what they learned. Dry fire practice and regular range practice helps develop the skills used by the manager.

Rob- Like driving a car or riding a bicycle. You practice until it becomes an unconscious reflex.

Tony- Exactly.

Rob- Let’s go on.

Tony- Our third story happened last week in Jefferson, West Virginia.

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Rob- Third story- Are you armed when you’re around your home?  

You are 82 years old and you’re working in your garage. You hear a crash behind you. A young stranger broke through your garage window. He shouts at you to give him your keys and your wallet. You step back. You’re armed. Your attacker steps toward you. You draw your gun and fire. Now the attacker stops. You step into your house and call the police.

Tony-  A 24 year old man shouldn’t have a problem taking anything he wants from any 82 year old.  Colt firearms had an advertisement for the Colt Peacemaker in the 1870’s “God created all men, Colonel Colt made them equal”. An armed victim isn’t a  victim for long.

Rob- Why would an 82 year old man go armed in his garage early in the morning?

Tony- Because 100% of home invasions take place inside the home. By 82 most people have a good read on what they can and can’t do. Fighting off bad guys by hand is one of those things that will be on my “don’t do” list well before I’m 82.

Rob- Your garage early in the morning isn’t some place dangerous.

Tony- It was this morning.

 

Exit-  Rob- That wraps up this episode. Tony, thank you for helping us today.  Where can we learn more about you?

Tony- I teach firearms safety and armed-self defense courses in New Jersey.  Our listeners can contact me on Facebook at Simon Says Train. My classes are listed at BlackBagResources.com I’m also at SimonSaysTrain on Instagram and at The Second is for Everyone.

Rob- You can share your thoughts with us by leaving a message on the podcast facebook page.  

Tony-  We share this podcast with you for free.  Our number of downloads dropped over the hollicays, so please share this podcast with a friend. Leave us a rating on I-Tunes and Stitcher.  We’re also available on Google Play Music.

Rob- I’m Rob Morse.  We’ll be back next week with more Self-Defense Gun Stories.

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Episode 94 with Andee Reardon

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Rob- Introduction- Welcome to episode 94 of Self-Defense Gun Stories.  This podcast is for people who might want a firearm.. and for those who already have one.  I’m your host, Rob Morse, and firearms instructor Andee Reardon joins us as to co-host. This is Andee’s second podcast with us. We talked about a month ago. Happy birthday, and how have you been?

Andee- Hi, Rob.  I’ve been very busy! December is usually a slow month for teaching classes but this December I was overwhelmed by requests for private and group lessons. It was awesome to see so many people taking training as a serious part of concealed carry and personal safety. I taught a mother and her teenager, a group of homeschoolers, a group of moms and a few mixed classes with husbands and wives as well as a few others. I also saw an increase in people purchasing gift certificates for their loved ones to take classes which is great.

Rob- That is great. We have some feedback that our podcast sounds scripted. Yes, it is. I’m here every week, but our instructors are only with me once every few months. We record for about a half hour, and then cut it down to 15 minutes. I could play 15 minutes of jokes and bloopers, or we could talk about self-defense. Thank you for the comment and we are both becoming more relaxed with practice.

Andee, please introduce our podcast to our new listeners.

Andee- We talk about three recent examples of armed defense each week. Our first story took place last week in Snellville, GA. This is what happened.

Rob- First story-  Are you armed when you’re in your car?  

It is the season. The new cell phones are out and it is after Christmas. Many people are selling their old phones. You put an ad on Craigslist. The buyer agrees to meet at a Walmart parking lot. You park under a light and wait for the buyer to arrive. Two men walk up. One of them asks if you have the phone for sale. The other man one pulls a gun out of his pocket and demands your phones..and your wallet.

You are a licensed concealed carrier. You’re armed. You jump out of your car. You keep moving and shoot the armed robber closest to you. Your two attackers run to a waiting car. You run inside the Walmart and call police.

Police arrest all three men when they seek treatment at a local hospital. They are in jail charged with armed robbery, aggravated assault, possession of firearm during the commission of a felony and obstruction of justice for lying to police about what happened.

Andee- be armed

Rob- Three robbers approach you as you sit in your car. Those are bad odds.

Andee- They are, but we can make them better. Have your seatbelt off so you can move.

Rob- What else do you notice?

Andee- The defender shot the robber three times in the arm that held the gun. It’s possible he was either flinching while pulling the trigger or focusing on the gun in the robber’s hand. We often focus on the gun even when we should aim for high-center of the chest area. It takes training to overcome that habit. It’s a natural instinct to focus on the weapon because it poses the greatest threat. It helps to use realistic targets of a person with a gun or a knife.

Rob- What are realistic targets? We’re not practicing shooting at real people, are we?

Andee- Silhouette targets vs picture of people.

That way we learn to recognize the weapon and, at the same time, practice shooting at the center of mass. We also tend to practice on stationary targets from the same position at the same distance.  Most armed defense happens between 5-15 feet feet and it happens very fast. That isn’t how we practice.

Rob- When you try that with your students at the range, what do you see?

Andee- Most people practice at about 30-50 feet and at a slow pace. Shooting at further distances gives us the impression that we have more time to react. I want us to practice drawing and shooting at close targetes. A great training tool is a shot timer. It applies a little stress and also measures our progress.

Rob- What else did you notice.

Andee- We don’t know why he exited the vehicle, it may be easier to draw the pistol because drawing from a sitting position in a vehicle can be a challenge.  I wonder if he could have driven away, but we don’t know the whole story.   He may have turned his vehicle off or the robbers could have blocked him in. This is where a vehicle tactics class can be very helpful in knowing what to do in different situations.

Finding a training class that offers shooting on the move, moving targets and vehicle tactics can really help you. I help teach a force-on-force class with Simunition (which is a plastic bullet shot through real firearms often used by law enforcement and military training). In this type of class we test people on how they would react to different scenarios a lot like this one. Even though you know it’s just acting and the bullets won’t kill you, your adrenaline builds up and the stress becomes real when you are engaging with someone who’s acting as though they want to hurt you. I highly recommend this type of training to learn your own capabilities and see where you need improvement, and it’s a LOT of fun!

Rob- Wow. That is a lot to learn. How much training and practice would you need before you took a force-on-force class?

Andee- Our second story happened last week in Chicago, Illinois.

Rob- Second Story-  Are you armed as you arrive home?  It is getting dark as you arrive home. You’re stepping off the street when a young man hurries up and asks you what time it is.  His hands come out of his pockets and he has a gun pointed at you. He demands your wallet. You hand over everything you have. You’re almost. You’re a licensed concealed carrier and you’re armed. The robber is stuffing his pockets as you draw your firearm. Your first shot misses. Your second shot hits your attacker in the head. You get your keys and your phone and call police. The police take the robbers gun.

Andee-Great that he was armed. That is a problem in Chicago since so many places in the city demand that victims be disarmed.

Chicago has some of the most strict gun laws in the country yet they are one of the highest ranking cities for gun crimes. I’m thankful to live in a state where our gun laws let us carry and the percentage of gun related crimes are very low. Criminals don’t usually like to take chances. They chose targets that they see as weak.

Rob- For example, people are often attacked as they get off public transportation.

Andee- This man in his 50s was seen as an easy target by the 23 year old who tried to rob him. This victim was prepared and thankfully he carried his gun with him while traveling to and from his home. He was approached by the would-be attacker and was threatened. The victim drew his gun and fired. Speed was an essential so he could defend himself before the attacker could shoot him. This is why practice is important, you may only have a second before your life could be taken from you, under stress you rely on muscle memory and that comes from practice.

I want you to carry everyday. Recently, a friend of mine was coming out of his work, a man came out of nowhere and jumped him. His gun was in his car. Thankfully, he was also well trained in self defense. He quickly took control of the situation leaving with a few bumps and bruises and leaving his attacker in a lot worse state. But his lesson was learned: ALWAYS carry your gun.

It would be great to know your neighbors so you didn’t have to touch the robber.

Rob- What do you mean?

Andee- The robber might have had the man’s cell phone.

Rob- Right.

Andee- Our third story happened last week in Oregon

Give a listen at http://www.armedlutheran.us/

 

Rob- Third story- Are you armed when you’re at work?  

It is closing time. You’re behind the counter at U-Haul. You have another employee and a customer in the store when a second customer walks in. He shouts for everyone to hand over their money. He draws his gun and points it at you. You’re armed too. You step behind the cash register and open the till.  You also turn to the side. You draw your gun and shoot the robber. He drops his gun, turns and falls. You shout for everyone to follow you and you step back out of the store into the back room. You call police.  The police  interview the other witnesses and look at the security camera videos.

Portland [OR] Police Bureau spokesman Sgt. Chris Burley said “..we..realize that if you feel like your life is in danger or someone else’s life is in danger, a person may need to protect themselves.”

Andee-  Protect yourself..and others. Some people have this thought that if you’re being robbed you should just give up your valuables. While this makes sense, as your life is more important than your valuables, you don’t know whether the robber is willing to leave witnesses or even if the robber is thinking clearly. Sometimes robbers get upset when you are unable to give them what they are looking for and will shoot you even if you follow their commands. When someone is pointing a gun at you, they are making a threat to take your life and that threat is enough to justify using your firearm to keep yourself and those around you safe.

Rob- Does that mean the clerk was justified in shooting first?

I think it’s important to note the man behind the counter didn’t just jump into action by drawing his pistol immediately. That would have most likely gotten him shot. He acted like he was going to give the gunman what he was demanding and got behind the cash register. He used that cover and distraction to draw and fire his gun taking the gunman off guard. This may have saved our defender from injury or death. It’s important to keep calm and use our brains before drawing our guns.

Rob- You expect me to think when someone points a gun at me?

Rob- What do you tell your students who want to know more about the laws regarding self-defense.

Andee- Go to the laws for concealed carry online or talk to your lawyer.

Exit-  Rob- That wraps up this episode. Andee, thank you for helping us today.  Where can our listeners learn more about you?

Andee- You can find me at EastCoastSchoolofSafety.com and on my facebook and Instagram pages with the same name.

Rob- You’re collecting donations for some people who NEED training. Andee- https://www.thrivenewengland.org/

Rob- Our listeners can share their thoughts with us by leaving a message on the podcast facebook page.  

Andee- We share this podcast with you for free.  Please share it with a friend and give us a rating on I-Tunes and Stitcher.  We’re also available on Google Play Music.

Rob- I’m Rob Morse.  We’ll be back next week with more Self-Defense Gun Stories.

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Episode 72 with Jeff Street

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Rob- Introduction- I’m Rob Morse and welcome to episode 72 of Self-Defense Gun Stories.  This podcast is for people who think they might want a firearm.. and those who already have one.  We’re joined this week by self-defense instructor Jeff Street.

Hi, Jeff.   Happy Birthday.  How have you been?

Jeff- Hi, Rob.  I’ve been teaching and training.  We’re working both indoors and out.

Hi to our new listeners, and welcome back to our regular listeners. We report and analyze three examples of armed civilian defense.  We hope you use these reports as part of your exercise program.. to use your imagination today so you can defend the people you care about tomorrow.  Please leave us a message on our facebook page with your questions or comments.

Rob- Jeff, we have some listener feedback.  Clayton wanted to let us know that in this world of iPhones, Siri can call 911! I teach my students to practice calling 911.  You can gain experience by calling 911 when you see something suspicious as you drive.  

I’ve tried “Siri call 911/the police/the cops” and they all worked. Siri gives you a five second countdown to cancel if you didn’t mean to do it.

I’m not saying Siri is 100% reliable, but it’s another tool on your belt when you are in various situations when you don’t want to take your eyes off of. Like operating a vehicle, or holding someone at gunpoint!

Thank you, Clayton.

Jeff- You can use these stories to practice your 9111 calls.

Our first story took place last week in Houston, Texas.

Rob- First story-  Are you armed at work?

You’re standing behind the counter of your jewelry store.  It is three in the afternoon when three men burst through the front doors.  They have guns.  They start shouting for your money, so you back up towards the cash drawer.  One of the thugs hits you in the head with his pistol.  You stumble behind the counter and come up with the gun you keep there.  You shoot your attackers.  All three of them run.

You call for help.  EMS bandages the back of your head and neck.  The police tell you that one of the robbers went to the hospital.  One was dumped by the side of the road and died.  The police are looking for the third attacker.

 

Jeff- No remote door lock

3 men in a jewelry store is suspicious even without bursting in.

He had lots of time before this ever happened to mentally map possible scenarios.

No POGO

He bought a gun and stashed it.  The gun is a magic talisman to ward off evil.

He encountered a problem that was greater than he had prepared to handle.

He lost the distance initiative

He may have been able to issue a verbal challenge

Jeff- Our second story happened last week in Columbia, Ohio.

Rob- Second Story-  Do you have a gun nearby at night?

You’re sleeping at home with your girlfriend and your young son.  You hear someone break into the front of your house.  You grab a hammer and walk toward the sound.  You fight with the two intruders.  Then you run outside to your car and grab your gun.  You run back inside and shoot your two attackers.  They run.  Your son and girlfriend are shocked, but not hurt.  Your two attackers were arrested and taken to the hospital.

Jeff- this man had to run out of his home to get his self-defense tool..and then run back inside.  This man was lucky. I train my students to do a better job.

Rob- how was he lucky?

Jeff-He is lucky he survived a two-on-one attack.  What would have happened if he failed and the attackers had reached his girlfriend and child?

The front door was locked

Hammer as a defensive tool against 2 attackers

A Car is not a holster (guns used in crimes often times were stolen from parked cars).

He had to leave his loved ones with the attackers still in the house.

Gun with you

lock the door to your bedroom.

Girlfriend call the police.

Jeff- Our third story happened last week in Sarasota, Florida

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Rob- Third story- Are you armed when you’re working at your fast food job?

You’re working behind the counter at Pizza Hut.  It is late in the evening on a Tuesday night.  Two men wearing masks walk in and demand the money in the cash register.  You are armed.  One of the thugs points his gun at you.  Another one of the robbers starts hitting one of your co-workers.  You step behind the cash register as you draw your gun.  You shoot the nearest robber three times.  The other robber is running away before you can point your gun at him.

Police arrest the two robbers and their two accomplices when they went to the hospital seeking medical treatment.

Jeff- Problems get easier when you are properly prepared

Step to the side and draw shot the closest threat 3 times and the other threat left.

As soon as real resistance was shown our hero was in control.  

Our defender was only 22

We teach students that are too young to apply for their CCWL in FL

Jeff- Good that he had a gun on his body, and the defender was only 22 years old.

Rob- What skills do your students need to defend themselves like this?

Jeff-  safety, accuracy, presentation, movement, awareness and recognition,

Rob-  that is more than one class.

Jeff- several classes, and practice.  How well do you want to do in the real world exam?

Exit-  Rob- That wraps up this episode. Jeff, thank you for helping me today.  Where can our listeners learn more about you?

Jeff- Our listeners can find me at Step by Step Gun Training.com in Naples, Florida.  We provide custom training courses as well as group classes.  Our listeners can leave me a message on Facebook.

Rob- Our listeners can share their thoughts with us by leaving a message on the podcast facebook page.  

Jeff-  We share this podcast with you for free, and ask that you share it with a friend.  Please give us a rating on I-Tunes.

Rob- I’m Rob Morse.  We’ll be back next week with more Self-Defense Gun Stories.

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