Episode 125 with Andee Reardon

Can you defend yourself and your customers at work? What should you do when the police arrive? We discuss four new examples of armed defense. (23 minute audio)

I’m glad you found us. Welcome to episode 125 of Self-Defense Gun Stories.

This podcast is for people who are curious about a firearm for self-defense, and for those who already own one. I’m your host, Rob Morse. We’re joined this week by self defense instructor Andee Reardon.

Andee- Hi, Rob.  I’ve been working and shooting and enjoying some outdoor activities here in Maine.

Rob- Andee, how do you listen to the show?

Andee– I listen to it on my phone while I drive

Rob- That is how most people listen. Please put us in your pocket every week, and give us rating on I-Tunes and Stitcher. Please leave a comment to tell us what you liked about the show.

Andee- A listener left us a message about one of our stories where a couple who went to buy a camera and got mugged. He asks how many times you have to let your girlfriend be punched before lethal force is justified. Alone, she would easily be justified to use lethal force to defend herself, but can she really claim disparity of force while you’re standing right there?

Further, my girlfriend is a former UFC fighter. Does that mean I would have been disallowed to employ a firearm completely until the attacker produces a weapon?

Andee- It’s really important to know the laws in your state.

Our first story took place last week in Columbia, South Carolina.

Rob- First story-  Are you armed when you work behind the counter?

It is time to close up, clean up the restaurant, and go home. You look up from behind the cash register to see a man dressed in black clothes. He has a black mask over his face. He also has a black gun in his hand, and the gun is pointed at you. The robber says to open the cash register. You and your co-worker open the drawer and step back.

The robber reaches over the counter to grab the cash. That is when your co-worker reaches across the counter and grabs the robbers gun. You are armed. You present your firearm and shoot the robber as the two men struggle.

Now your attacker lets go of his gun. You and your co-worker run into the back room, but then come back out because you’ve left your customers unguarded. The robber is lying at the front of your store and you call 911.

Andee- Great that the defender had a gun on his body.

Rob- He didn’t have enough time to go back into the office where some store owners keep their gun. HE had his gun on him when he needed it.

Andee- Exactly, and our defender waited his turn. He was legally justified to use his gun as soon as he saw the robber threaten people with a gun. It met the legal standard of a lethal and immediate threat. Drawing right then leads to a gunfight. You’d rather wait until you get to shoot them and they don’t get to shoot you.

Rob- So he waited until the robber was involved with his co-worker, and the co-worker didn’t have to win the wrestling match with the robber.

Andee- All our defender needed was a fraction of a second head start so he could shoot the attacker first. His co-worker gave him the time he needed to draw his gun without being shot.

Rob- Do you think they had a plan?

Andee- I think he thought about it before it happened. He recognized the opportunity the instant the robber had his attention on struggling for his gun.

Rob- Anything else?

Andee- I like that they retreated to safety rather than chasing the robber. I also like that they worried about the rest of the customers.

You want to honor the witnesses.

Rob- What does it mean to honor the witnesses?

Andee- Tell the customers to get back away from the attacker so they are safe. The attacker might have another gun or an accomplice. If you can, you want the customers and staff to stay at the restaurant. Ask them if they are hurt. Have them there for the police to interview.

Rob- is there more?

Andee- This attack happened in South Carolina, so you don’t need a permit to carry behind the counter of your business. It would be foolish to survive an attack at your store, and then be attacked as you took the money to the bank. South Carolina is a shall issue state, so anyone who is legally eligible to own a gun is eligible to take the training and get a carry permit.

Rob- Good point. Do many of your business owners have their carry permits?

Andee- A lot of my students are small business owners.

Rob- Do you teach them how to draw a gun from a concealed holster?

Andee- I do. I feel it’s important to train for any possible scenarios. I’m a big advocate of carrying on the body, but that’s not enough. You need that muscle memory that comes from practicing your draw and firing on the range.

Our second story happened last week in Macon County, Missouri.

Rob- Second Story- Do you have a gun nearby when you’re asleep at home.

You hear someone inside your house. It is four in the morning. You roll out of bed and grab your gun. Before you can lock your bedroom door, the intruder is in your room and he’s pointing something at you.  It is a nail gun. You shout for him to leave.

Instead of leaving, the attacker drops the nail gun and draws a handgun from the waist of his pants. Now you shoot him. The attacker shoots back, but misses you. Your attacker falls down and you run from the room.  You call police.

The police say that the attacker used a ladder to get in an upstairs sliding glass door that was left open. The attacker was also carrying methamphetamine.

Andee- I talk about leaving doors and windows unlocked in my classes, it’s an intruder’s favorite way to enter- it’s easy and quiet. Balconies are often left unlocked because homeowners think they are hard to reach, ladders make it very accessible and often homeowners leave those outside. By securing your windows and doors, you’re creating an obstacle that an intruder can’t pass without making noise which will hopefully wake you. If you’re a sound sleeper, window and door alarms are fairly cheap and easy to install. Noise and time are your friend because they give you a chance to grab your gun and prepare.

Rob- The robber came in the bedroom and pointed a nail gun at the homeowner.

Andee- If you have your gun in your hand and are behind your bed, then you can yell at the robber to leave. A nail gun isn’t a lethal threat at that distance. A real firearm is a distance tool, and the homeowner defended himself when the robber drew a gun that presented an immediate and unavoidable threat.

Rob- So you have your gun pointed at the intruder. If they are at the other end of the house with a knife you can’t shoot them, but if they have a gun then you can?

Andee- and you should shoot because your life is being threatened right now, and if they are between you and the door then you can’t escape the threat.

Rob- Say that you’ve shot someone in your room. They fall down. What do you do now?

Andee- That is a hard question. You’d like to grab your phone and your clothes..but those might be back in the bedroom. Depending on where you live and the time of year, you might run out of the house to be safe.

Rob- Maybe run to a neighbor’s house and ask them to call the police?

Andee- Unless you live up here in Maine and it’s the wintertime. Everyone should make a plan ahead of time as to what they would do in different emergencies and let family members and people in the house know those plans also.

Rob- Do you talk about this with your students?

Andee- We talk a lot about planning ahead, muscle memory and how those thing are important when you’re under stress.

Our third story happened last week in Roanoke, Virginia.

Rob- First this message about my good friends at Gun Freedom Radio.

Listen to Gun Freedom Radio at http://gunfreedomradio.com

Rob- Third story- Are you armed at work?

It is three in the morning. You’re working at an all night gaming parlor. A stranger walks in, and before you know it, you hear a gunshot. Now the stranger yells for everyone to get down on the floor, and he fires his gun again.

You’re armed. You draw your gun and shoot the robber. He falls to the floor and drops his gun.

You take the criminal’s gun and call the police.

The police arrest the getaway driver.

Andee- I like that the defender was armed. Here is what I tell my students to do. First, if possible, take cover. Then shoot.

Rob- Why is that the first thing to do?

Andee- We want to cheat. We want to have the bad guy standing in the open and being a great big target, while we are hard to see, and even harder to shoot. It is pretty natural to drop behind a counter if you hear a loud noise.

Rob- Announcing yourself with a gun would make a lot of people jump, so everyone was probably moving and ducking down wouldn’t draw attention to you.

Andee- Again, honor the witnesses. Ask if they are hurt and need immediate help. Ask them to stay down, but to look around, see if anyone else is hurt or if there is anyone else with the attacker.

Rob- Should you disarm your attacker once they are down?

Andee- Yes, if you can do so safely. To protect others.

Call the police.

Give a short statement.

Clear lethal threat since the bad guy fired first.

Rob- lets go on to our forth story.

Andee- Forth story? We usually do three stories.

Rob- Our listeners left us a message on the podcast facebook page and about 80 percent wanted a fourth story.

Andee- I deserve a pay raise. Our last story took place in Cleveland, Ohio.

Rob- Fourth story- Do you have a gun accessible when you’re asleep at home?

You’re pretty sure someone just broke into your house downstairs. It is 2:30 in the morning. You get out of bed and grab your shotgun. You listen, and there are sounds coming from the first floor. You walk to the top of the stairs and wait.

You see a man turn the corner. You shout, “I’ll shoot you.” The intruder runs away. You call police. The intruder broke your kitchen window to get inside.

Andee- See? A locked window is easier to hear! The homeowner heard the noise of the window being pried open with a screwdriver. The homeowner was 68 years old. He used his shotgun as his defense gun and kept it ready.

Rob- So he probably didn’t want to go hand to hand.

Andee- He did not go investigate. He waited in a position of advantage. (good view. Only one direction of approach. You’re behind the wall or the floor, and they are out in the open. They have to work extra hard to come up the stairs to get to you.)

Rob- Should the homeowner have turned on the lights and shouted that he was armed?

Andee- Turning on lights is usually an advantage to the intruder- You already know the layout of your home. A tactical flashlight can be very useful though to help you see and blind the intruder. The homeowner didn’t chase the intruder, he waited. Calling out to warn you have a gun is important in some states so know the laws in yours.

Rob- Does this sort of attack happen very often?

Andee- There are lots of home break-ins. About one out of 40 of us will be the victim of a burglary or property crime each year. About 6 thousand of us defend themselves with a firearm every day, but I don’t know how many of those are the result of a robbery when the victim is at home. Here in the US, would-be robbers tend to pick homes at a time when no one is there. That being said, as the drug problem increases, these break-ins while the homeowner is present are becoming more frequent.

Rob- Do your students practice what to do in this situation?

Andee- Follow your safety plan: Get your tools, defend. Call police. Put your gun away when the police arrive.

Let the police clear the house rather than you doing it in the dark.

Exit-  Rob- that wraps up this episode. Andee, thank you for helping us again. Where can we learn more about you?

Andee- Find me at EastCoastSchoolofSafety.com and on my facebook and Instagram pages with the same name. EastCoastSOS_ar

Rob- We appreciate the feedback we’ve received on having four stories. Leave us a message with comments or questions on the podcast facebook page and we’ll answer them on the show.

Andee- We share this podcast with you for free.  All we ask is that you share the podcast with a friend and give us a rating on I-Tunes and Stitcher.  We’re also available on Google Play Music and Spotify.

Rob- This podcast is part of the Self-defense radio network at sdrn.us

I’m Rob Morse.  We’ll be back next week with more Self-Defense Gun Stories.

Episode 70 with Tony Simon

Welcome to episode 70. Instructor Tony Simon joins us this week with three new self-defense stories. Were these gun owners lucky, or were they prepared? How would you react in their situation? (15:30 )

Rob- Introduction- I’m Rob Morse and welcome to episode 70 of Self-Defense Gun Stories.  This podcast is for people who think they might want a firearm.. and those who already have one.  We’re joined this week by self-defense instructor Tony Simon.

Hi, Tony.  How have you been?  I heard you on Lock and Load Radio.

Tony- Hi, Rob.  I’ve been busy getting the word out about our tee shirts that we are selling to raise funds for The 2nd is For Everyone: Diversity Shoots, getting classes ready for students and writing a new curriculum for a Home Hardening class that I am going to teach.

Hi to our new listeners, and welcome back to our regular listeners. We report and analyze three examples of armed civilian defense.  We hope you use these reports as part of your exercise program.. to use your imagination today so you can defend the people you care about tomorrow.  Please leave us a message on our facebook page with your questions or comments.

Tony- Our first story took place last week in Memphis, Tennessee.

Rob- First story-  Are you armed at work in the afternoon?

You work in a convenience store.  A man comes in, grabs two beers, and heads to the door.  You shout for him to come to the counter and pay.  He shouts back that you can’t stop him.  He reaches for his waistband and tells you to stay where your are.  You think he has a gun.  He starts to turn toward you.  You draw and fire your sidearm.  The robber runs, but collapses outside.  You call police.  You know the drill.  The store has been robbed before.

Tony- This bad guy pretended that he had a gun to intimidate the victim. As Mas Ayoob says the attacker suffered a failure in his victim selection process. He got shot by an armed “victim”.

Tony- We here at the podcast always say that you need a plan when it comes to armed self defense. Once the bad guy has stated he intends to use deadly force, acts like he has a means to carry out that intent and advances on you as if he is going to harm you then you must use that plan without hesitation.

You must go with 100% effort to save your life. If he ends up not having a gun, like this thief, that is his fault that he got shot.The time it takes you to figure out if he was “serious” could cost you your life.

Tony- Like our first story, our second story also happened in Memphis, Tennessee

Rob- Second Story- Are you armed at home late at night?

You worked late and then ran some errands on the way home.  You live in a gated apartment complex.  You let yourself through the gate and drive to your parking place.  You get out of your car and grab your bags.  A man comes running at you out of the darkness.  He grabs your computer bag and your purse.  The strap is over your shoulder.  You hang on and scream for your boyfriend.  He comes running out of your apartment and tackles your attacker.  Your Ruger pistol falls out of your purse.  Now the three of you are scrambling to grab it.  You win, and shoot your attacker twice in the chest.  You and your boyfriend stand up and reach for your phones.

The police charged your attacker with aggravated assault and criminal attempted felony.  You go to the hospital for scrapes and cuts.

Tony- Security is a feeling, you must be aware of what is happening around you. Gated communities are not safe.  They may be less dangerous than a convenience store parking lot at 1 am but they are not safe.

On body carry is much better than carrying your firearm in your bag or purse. Your bag is the most likely target of the thief. When he grabs you by your bag he has all of the leverage and you end up holding onto the strap and getting dragged along for the ride.

Tony- I’ve followed people into secured office buildings and have had them hold the door open for me and give me directions to offices inside the building. Never assume you are completely safe because getting into your building requires a key fob.

Tony- Our third story happened last week in Lumberton, North Carolina.

Give Lloyd a listen at http://www.armedlutheran.us/

Rob- Third story- Are you armed at work very early in the morning?  

You’re working very late.  The front of your store is closed, and you’re sitting in the back of your store repairing your customer’s cell phones.  You hear a loud crash and the entire building shakes.  Five young men smashed their way into your store through the front windows and doors.  You grab your shotgun and walk out of the back of the store.  The robbers turn and run..except for one of them.  He keeps coming toward you.  You press the trigger and the thug drops to the ground.

You call police.  Unfortunately, the police take your shotgun as evidence.  Fortunately, you have another one.

Tony-  The victim was a 66 year old man and the attacker was a teen that had multiple partners breaking into his business.

Rob- Disparity of force.

Tony- Fighting off multiple attackers, alone, at night, isn’t something that comes easily. Especially if those attackers are determined to hurt you. Being able to operate your gun, move, hit multiple moving targets and keeping your gun loaded and in the fight isn’t something that you “figure out” during a fight. Taking defensive firearms training teaches you what you don’t know about armed self defense, your self, your firearm and your self-defense plan.

Rob- This man saved his own life, but his attackers could have overwhelmed him.

Tony- This was multiple people breaking in and attempting to steal as much as they can carry. If it came to a fight they were not going to “fight fair”. Criminals aren’t stupid.  They don’t want a fair fight. Neither should you, take the time to train to be a winner during a life or death confrontation.

Rob- So where do we learn?

Tony- Most ranges won’t allow you shoot at multiple targets, they won’t allow you to rapid fire, they won’t allow you to turn off the lights and they won’t allow you to move while you shoot. Going to a class on a range that is set up for this type of training is what we need to look for and where we learn these skills.

Rob- that sounds important.

Tony- It is, but first you have to know how to operate your firearm. One of the problems that I see most often in class and at the range is that some people don’t know how their gun operates on a instinctive level. You need to have intimate knowledge of the operation of your self defense firearm, that means taking it to the range and using it at least monthly not sitting it in the corner and letting it collect dust until you need it. One of my suggestions on how to get good operating your firearm is to take up a shooting sport ,at  a local range, using your self defense gun or the same type of gun as your self-defense gun. Shooting in a weekly event is fun. You will meet new people and learn to shoot under the stress of competition. Adding the stress in a non life threatening way allows you to see how you operate and learn what you need to work on.

Rob- The victim probably didn’t see the muzzle of his gun as he aimed it.

Tony- The victim most likely was looking at the threat not the front sight.  Once you have those basic skills at the unconscious level you will be better equipped to defend yourself.

Exit-  Rob- That wraps up this episode. Tony, thank you for helping me today.  Where can our listeners learn more about you?

Tony- Our listeners can find me at Simon Says Train on Facebook and also at SimonSaysTrain Instagram and the 2nd is For Everyone on Facebook. For a limited time we are selling a tee shirt to raise funds for our 2nd Amendment workshop, The 2nd is For Everyone: Diversity Shoot, on our website DiversityShoot.com stop by to see what we are about, make a donation or buy a shirt.

Rob- Our listeners can share their thoughts with us by leaving a message on the podcast facebook page.  

Tony-   If you liked this show, then you’ll like the other podcasts on the Self-defense radio network.  We share this podcast with you for free, and ask that you share it with a friend.  Please give us a rating on I-Tunes.

Rob- I’m Rob Morse.  We’ll be back next week with more Self-Defense Gun Stories.

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