Rob- Introduction- I’m glad you found us and welcome to episode 127 of Self-Defense Gun Stories.
This podcast is for people who are curious about a firearm for self-defense, and for those who already own one. I’m your host, Rob Morse. We’re joined this week by self defense instructor Tony Simon.
Tony- Hi, Rob. I’ve been working and shooting and.. diversity shoot, minute man challenge.
I noticed you had a problem with the last podcast.
Rob- Apple didn’t like one of the settings from our podcast host, so they shut us down until I changed the language setting from american english to “EN”.
Tony, how do you listen to the show?
Tony- I listen to it on.. my phone as I drive to work.
Rob- That is how most people listen. Please put us in your pocket every week, and give us rating on I-Tunes and Stitcher. Please leave a comment to tell us what you liked about the show.
Please introduce our podcast to our new listeners.
Tony- We study several examples where gun owners survived a life threatening situation. Were they lucky, or did they have a plan? What should we do if we were in their place? Our first story took place last week in Millcreek, Utah.
You’re sitting in a coffee shop when a man comes in and starts yelling. He hits the employee behind the counter in the back of the head. She backs up, and her attacker hits her again and again. The other employees run away. The attacker then hits the woman with a metal crate from the counter. She falls to the floor and he starts kicking her.
You get up and yell at the attacker to stop. He rushes toward you. You have a concealed carry permit. You’re armed. You shoot the attacker once in the chest, and your attacker runs from the store. You wait there for police to arrive.
The police had to taze your attacker several times in order to arrest him. The injured employee said she remembers you, but never knew you were armed.
Tony- Crazy man on drugs and a repeat offender. He was running from the police when he ran into the coffee shop. In training we use real stories just like this to set up force on force and shooting problems.
Rob- No warning for the clerk.
Tony- Never expect a fair fight, bad guys looks for victims not for challenges. The defender was in his late 60s and the attacker was 37 years old. When you carry a firearm you should have really thought about the real choices that you have to make, like can I shoot an unarmed but dangerous attacker?
Rob- Is that enough disparity in physical size and strength to justify the use of lethal force?
Tony-We are not the police we have No duty to defend others. A concealed carry permit isn’t a badge and we need to know what our state laws are regarding lethal force. As responsible armed citizen we must decide if we would intervene to save another person’s life with deadly force. Can you live with yourself if this woman is beaten to death in front of you while you have the means to stop it from happening?
Rob- Duty to warn?
Tony- You don’t need to tell the bad guy that you have a gun or warn him in any way. At times it may not even be smart to warn him. No duty to warn, but it does make your legal defense much easier because you can testify on your own behalf that the assailant tried to attack you.
Tony- As a armed citizen that has used his firearm in a confrontation you must call the police as soon as it is safe to do so. I have not read anywhere that the good guy called the police. He may have but we don’t know
Rob- Anything else?
Tony- That is enough for now. Our second story happened last week in Chesterfield County, Virginia.
It is almost 10AM on a Saturday morning when you hear a crunching sound from your back door. Your whole house shakes. You go to see what is going on. A stranger kicks through your back door. You shout for him to stop. You’re armed. He enters your home and you shoot him. He runs away, and you call police.
The police find your robber on your front lawn. He was wounded in the foot. This was his second robbery and break in this morning.
Tony- 9am on Saturday morning isn’t the time most people think that a home invasion will take place. The back door was obviously locked because the intruder made noise breaking in. That gave the homeowner a warning that someone had breached their perimeter in other words kicked in their door.
Rob- Any duty to run away if someone breaks into your home?
Tony- Virginia case law assumes that someone breaking into your house is there to hurt you. These stories are never clear about where the good guy gets their gun. We need to ask ourselves, where would our defensive firearm be at 9am on a Saturday morning? If its not on your body could you get to it if you had to fight off a 19 year old attacker? But I want to ask another question. Where did this gun appear from? Was he carrying? Was it in his bedroom and he had to get it and run to the back of the house?
Rob- The article doesn’t say.
Tony- Marksmanship, the ability to put rounds where they need to go is very important for the armed citizen. We are good guys and responsible for every round we fire. The homeowner shot this guy in the foot! I am going to go out on a limb here and say that shot placement was unintentional. POGO, and practice so you can quickly shoot center of someone’s chest from 5 yards. You want your shot to physically stop a threat not leave it up to the bad guy to decide if he keeps attacking you or runs away.
Rob- Why is that?
Tony- A gun is lethal force. That is only justified if you face a lethal threat. I can’t say this enough, take a class that covers the use of deadly force where you live. We are good guys and we always want to make sure we are following the law. If it isn’t a lethal threat, then it isn’t a gun problem and you should run away or use other tools. If it is a lethal threat, then stop the threat immediately.
Tony- f you can get away form a deadly threat do so but if you have family that can’t leave then you must defend them also.You might be able to run away. You can’t do that if you have a family to protect.
Our third story happened last week near New Haven, Connecticut.
Rob- First this message from my friends at Armed Lutheran Radio.
Give a listen at http://www.armedlutheran.us/
It is 10pm, and you’re sitting in your car waiting for your cousin. You see your cousin walk out of his house. A stranger walks past him, and you hear them shout. You get out of the car, and the stranger stabs you. You are a registered gun owner. You also have your carry permit. You’re armed. You draw your gun and shoot your attacker.
You call police.
Tony- Police say the attack was unprovoked. This happens more than people think. The world has some mentally disturbed people that are very dangerous to those around them.
Rob- Justified? He has a knife and you have a gun.
Tony- A knife is deadly force. A knife attack is very dangerous especially a unprovoked knife attack because many people think that they got punched and don’t know that they have been stabbed. Stab wounds are much more deadly and you may be unaware that you are in a stabbing not a fistfight. You’re allowed to use any tool if you face a lethal threat. You don’t have to fight fair, in fact, fighting fair is a horrible strategy.
Tony- After being stabbed the armed citizen drew his gun from concealment, fired one round, hit the bad guy in the chest and stopped the attack immediately. Good shooting. One shot and that ended the attack.
Rob- So the victim was stabbed, then he drew his gun from under his shirt, and shot the attacker.
Tony- That sounds difficult, but I train ordinary people to do that in our classes.
Rob- How would I learn to do that?
Tony- We teach the firearms portion and we bring in experts to cover both medical and police interaction.
Step at a time.
I teach firearms safety so you are safe as you handle your gun.
Basic marksmanship, so you can consistently manipulate a gun and hit your target.
Concealed carry, so you can draw from under your clothing and stop an attack.
Ask for the police and medical attention.
Say that you’ll help the investigators after you talk to your lawyer. That is exactly what the police are told to say if they are involved in a shooting. If it is good enough for them, then it is good enough for you.
That said, if you’ve thought about what to say, then you can point out evidence..like the bloody knife in the bushes where your attacker dropped it.
Rob- Do you talk about that with your students?
Rob- Let’s go on to our fourth story.
Tony- Forth story? We usually do three stories.
Rob- Our listeners left us a message on the podcast facebook page and asked for a fourth story. If you like more stories, then let us know. If you want a shorter podcast, then let us know that as well.
Tony- Our forth story took place in Colorado Springs.
You hear your wife scream. A strange is trying to get into your home. It is after dinner. You hear your wife run upstairs. You grab your pistol and run down stairs to see what is going on. A stranger comes through the back hallway and attacks you. You shoot him. The attacker runs outside. Your wife has already called police.
The police have to taze your attacker several times to get him into handcuffs. EMTs transport the 20 year old attacker to the hospital.
Tony- Have a plan. During a home invasion isn’t the time to say “ OMG, what am I going to do?” You are already a victim and time isn’t on your side. A plan adds time. You can react much quicker if you have a plan because you can implement it immediately. My wife screams “Someone is breaking into the house!!” I know what I’m doing next. I fact I’ve practiced and trained for that very emergency.
Tony- Lock your doors. ‘Of course I lock my doors” says everyone. I’ve been a locksmith since the early 90’s and have tons of stories of bad guy walking into homes through unlocked doors.
Tony- Stay upstairs. Searching for a bad guy we call that clearing a structure isn’t something that you want to do at all much less alone. If your family is secure upstairs don’t risk getting ambushed downstairs by one or more people. If you are hidden at the top of the stairs, the bad guy has to come to you and the only way is up the stairs. You have the advantage of surprise and knowing where they will appear.
Tony- Have your defensive tools with you. POGO
Tony- Call the police and ask for help ASAP. Have a safe room. It doesn’t have to be anything elaborate. A solid door, a deadbolt, a phone that you have on you to call for help.
Maybe you won’t have to kill someone if you’re locked into your upstairs bedroom while the police tackle the idiot downstairs.
Talk with an instructor and figure out what to say to the police. Everything is recorded and will be used against you.
Exit- Rob- that wraps up this episode. Tony, thank you for helping us again. Where can we learn more about you?
Rob- Let us know what you think. Do you like the longer podcast with four stories? Do you want more personal news from our instructors? Leave us a message on the podcast facebook page.
Tony- We share this podcast with you for free. All we ask is that you share the podcast with a friend and give us a rating on I-Tunes and Stitcher. We’re also available on Google Play Music and Spotify.
Rob- This podcast is part of the Self-defense radio network at sdrn.us
I’m Rob Morse. We’ll be back in a few weeks with more Self-Defense Gun Stories.