Episode 310 with Tony Simon
Rob- Welcome to episode 310 of Self-Defense Gun Stories. We’re glad you found us if you’re well trained.. and if you’re still learning about armed defense. I’m Rob Morse and we’re joined this week by firearms instructor Tony Simon. What has been keeping you so busy?
Tony- Hi, Rob. I’ve been. Diversity shoots in NJ and PA, also KS, OK, and NE. Week before Memorial day.
How about you?
Rob- Tony, our first recording together was in early March of 2016. Now we are starting season 8 together. Thank you.
Tony- I didn’t realize it, but you’re really old.
Rob- I had fun with you too.
We received two new ratings and a new comment on iTunes (is341,167). A listener named Mo from Massachusetts only got his concealed carry license a short time ago. He said we’re an incredible source of information.
Tony- Thank you, Mo. Please go to the iTunes store where you subscribe to podcasts and let new gun owners know why you listen.
Here in the US, we defend ourselves with a firearm thousands of times a day. We look at a few recent examples to see what we can learn. You can find the links back to the original news articles on our podcast webpage.
Our first story took place last week in Garden City, Kansas.
Rob- First story- Do you have a firearm nearby at night?
It is about 5:20 in the morning when your family goes out and retrieves their 27 year-old who has been drinking. He argues with you when you get him home. He grabs a gun and points it at your family. One of you is armed and you shoot your attacker in self-defense. You call 911 and ask for help.
Police arrive and you put your gun away. They disarm your attacker. EMS takes him to the local hospital. All of the family members give statements to the police. You later find out that the young man died in the hospital. You are not charged with a crime.
Tony- I was going to say this is a crazy story, but it lured me in. Sure, we’ve given people a ride home before. We’ve dealt with angry drunks. Now we add an argumentative drunk who has a gun. This is less far-fetched than it seems since most aggravated assaults are committed by people who are intoxicated. This threat was real.
I’m glad our defender was armed. I’m really glad he took the threat seriously. In a perfect world, you have a relative with a taser standing behind the drunk attacker and no one gets shot. Even that is uncertain because we don’t know if the attacker is going to press the trigger as he is tased.
The defender stopped shooting when the attacker dropped his gun. They called the police and asked for help. They stayed at the scene and gave the officers a statement.
Rob- As horrible as this story is, I know people who stage firearms around their home. That means there is a gun near a drunk relative. If the drunk has been in the home before, then he might know where the firearms are stored.
Is there anything else you’d like your students to do if this happened in their home?
Tony- Call the police early. When your drunk brother or cousin starts to argue, call the cops before the first punch is thrown. The police might not get there in time, but that puts you in the category of the complainant who asked for help.
We don’t know if the drunk was armed when he came inside, but it would be a good idea to check before you let a drunk armed man into your home. We want everyone who was in the home to give a statement to the police.
Rob- How do you ask to disarm a drunk without provoking an armed conflict?
Tony- You don’t look too good right now. Let me hold that for you until you’re better in a few hours. I’m not going to take it from you, I’m asking you to hand it to me while you sleep this one off.
If they say no, then you call the police and don’t let them inside.
Rob- That is easy to say, but hard to do.
Tony- I know. We can’t make this a perfect world, but we start by doing the best we can for our family.
Our second story happened in Coldspring, Texas.
Rob- Second Story- Do you keep a firearm nearby at night?
You’re asleep in the back of your liquor store. It is about 5:30 on a weekday morning when you hear someone walking around inside. Just to be clear, your store closed hours ago. You get out of bed and call the police. You grab your gun and move toward the back room where you hear someone. The intruder runs at you. You shoot him one time and he stops. You back up and call the police again. You put your gun away when the police arrive.
EMS takes your attacker to the hospital. You give a statement to the police. Both you and the police look at the security video. The police see your attacker break into your store through the drive-in window. They see him gather alcohol and cigarettes in a bag. They see him run toward you before you defend yourself.
You are not charged with a crime. Later you find out that your attacker died in the hospital.
Tony- The people who commit violent crimes are usually not rocket-scientists. I’m willing to bet that this was not the attacker’s first crime. He took crazy chances and lost.
I’m glad the store owner had a firearm and had video cameras. It was a good move to call the police early. He armed himself. He defended himself. He showed the police the security video that showed his innocence.
Rob- When do your students and business owners learn about calling the police and about security cameras?
Tony- As someone that worked for a company that sells and installs security cameras, security doors, locks and safes you better believe students are made aware of the benefits of all of the above early and often. Calling the police as soon as you confirm your security has been breached gets them on the way. Any delay puts you at higher risk if the situation is more than you, a single defender, can handle.
Rob- Is there more you’d like us to do if we are worried about break-ins at our business?
Tony- I am going past the level of how to use a gun. Past the level of what you say to the police. You don’t want to kill someone if you can avoid it. Lock the door to the back room where you’re sleeping and let the police capture the criminal.
Killing someone will cost your heart way more than a bottle of whiskey and a bag of slim-jims that the thief was going to take. There may be a point where you have to defend your life. I get that, but avoid that situation if you can. Lock the door and get behind something so you are hard to see and harder to shoot. Wait for the police. Maybe you can let the police into your shop through the back door.
Also, you don’t know how many people are in your store or how they are armed. Why go up against three bad guys in the dark? Call the cops instead.
Rob- Tony, there are lots of family owned stores. Have you seen where the son wants to guard the store, but the old man would never allow his daughter to stay in the store overnight?
Tony- I get it. The son wants to protect the family by protecting the store. The rest of the store recognizes that the daughter’s life is too important to risk. In a strange way, we’re saying that men are expendable. I say we need you both of them alive tomorrow so make better plans today. If you have too, have two or three people sleeping in or above the store. Before you do that, put in an alarm system.
Rob- Is it better to have a loud security alarm that goes off when there is an intruder?
Tony- Yes. Set off the alarm if you’re there.
Our third story happened in Detroit, Michigan.
Rob- First this message from Doctors for Responsible Gun Ownership.
Rob- Third story- Are you armed as you get something to eat with a friend?
It is 10 o’clock on a weekday night. You and your friend walk into a late night delicatessen. You notice two men following you. One of them follows you as you leave. You’re in the parking lot near your car when the stranger tells you to stop. He points a gun at your friend and tells you to hand everything over. You have your concealed carry permit in your wallet, but you hand over your wallet. The robber starts to pat you down. That is when you present your concealed firearm and shoot your attacker in the chest. He runs one way and you and your friend run the other way.
It isn’t clear if you called 911. Police responded to the sounds of gunshots. You reholster your firearm and run toward the officers with your hands in the air. You and your friend tell the officers what happened.
The officers find your attacker nearby. They disarm him and find your wallet in his pocket. Your attacker is a convicted felon with a prior conviction for armed robbery and weapons charges. It is not legal for him to have a gun. The police look at the security video of the robber and his accomplice. They see the robber point his gun at your friend and at you.
You are not charged with a crime.
Tony- I’m glad that the defender recognized the threat when the attacker started to pat him down and the defender reacted before the attacker found his gun.
This is a great example of waiting your turn which is also called tactical patience. You have every right to defend yourself, but the bad guy has a gun pointed at your friend’s head. Let’s wait a minute until the attacker’s eyes are looking somewhere else and the gun isn’t against our friend’s head before we present our firearm and shoot. The defenders did well.
Rob- I’m surprised the defender only shot once.
Tony- Me too. We teach defenders to shoot until the threat stops, but let’s at least start with a couple of well placed shots. This makes me think that the defender didn’t have much training. I wish that both of the intended victims were armed and trained.
Rob- What training does this defender wish he had?
Tony- The class is called close quarters armed combat. You often have to fight hand to hand as you create the room you need to present your firearm. You press the trigger when your firearm is still in the close quarters retention position at your side because you don’t want to hand your gun to your attacker by extending your arms.
Rob- Let’s be realistic. Most gun owners don’t have their carry permits. Most permit holders don’t go on and take another class. What is going on there?
Tony- Most people have a fantasy of what they will face on the street. They would rather keep it a fuzzy and comfortable fantasy than listen to a podcast like this one and find out there is more to learn. To all my students that keep training and learning, I thank you.
Rob- Me too. Where are we going for our last story?
Tony- Our fourth story took place in Las Vegas, Nevada.
Rob- Fourth story- Are you armed as you walk your dog?
You are walking your dog down the street on a weekend afternoon. You are near your home when a strange dog runs out into the street and attacks your dog. You try to pull them apart by pulling on your dog’s leash. That doesn’t work and you try to kick the strange dog. That doesn’t work either. You present your concealed firearm and you shoot the strange dog. That stops them. You and your dog back away.
It isn’t clear who called 911. You stay at the scene and give a statement to the police. Your dog is still on his leash and the police say you didn’t commit a crime.
Tony- This is interesting. We don’t shoot people to protect our dog, but we can shoot another dog to protect ourselves or to protect our dog as long as we don’t put other people in danger. This is much harder than it sounds since a dogfight is the definition of a moving target and we don’t want to shoot ourselves, shoot any bystanders, or injure our dog.
I think our defender shot three times and then stopped shooting when the dog stopped attacking. He stayed at the scene and gave a statement to the police. That is really important because you want to make sure your story is told.
Rob- What else do you see here?
Tony- Go to the veterinarian and have your dog’s injuries documented. You want a description and photographs. If you were bitten, then you go to the doctor and have your injuries documented. Then you call your lawyer. You might have to sue your neighbor so there is a judgment that stops them from suing you later.
Rob- How would I know to do that?
Tony- You don’t. Your lawyer makes that decision with you. That is why you call him.
Rob- Your students come to you because they are interested in armed defense. When do your students learn about legal defense after they’ve used a firearm?
Tony- In our home defender handgun and defensive pistol classes we discuss the importance of legal protection from companies that specialize in helping “armed good guys” that defend themselves.
Rob- That wraps up this episode. Tony, thank you for helping us again. Where can we learn more about you?
Tony- Find me at Diversityshoot.com
I’m also on Instagram and facebook at Simon Says Train, and at The 2nd is For Everyone podcast.
Rob- I hope you look at Tony podcasts and at his classes. Then, please leave Tony a message on the self defense gun stories episode webpage.
Tony- We share this podcast with you for free.
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Rob- This show is part of the Self-defense radio network. Find more pro-freedom podcasts at sdrn.us
I’m Rob Morse. We’ll be back in a few weeks with more Self-Defense Gun Stories.
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