Episode 132 with David Cole

Rob- Introduction- Welcome to episode 123 of Self-Defense Gun Stories. I’m glad you found us. This podcast is for people who are curious about a firearm for self-defense, and for those who already own one. I’m your host, Rob Morse. We’re joined this week by self defense instructor David Cole.

Hi, David.  You took on a new discipline besides martial arts and handgun competition.

David- Hi, Rob.  I’ve been practicing with my new bow. It’s a whole new challenge.

Rob- and getting better. How do you listen to the show?

David- I’m sort of “old school”…I actually still use an iPod for almost all of my listening. Who’d have thought an iPod would be “retro”? The easiest way for most people is probably with their cell phone.

Rob- That is how most people listen. Please put us in your pocket and give us rating on I-Tunes and Stitcher. Please leave a comment to tell us what you liked about the show.

Now that we’ve talked about how to listen, tell our new listeners what to expect.

David- We’re going to look at several news stories about armed defense.  These gun owners survived a life threatening situation. They succeeded, but were they lucky, or did they have a good plan? What should we do if we were in their place, and how would we learn those new skills?

Our first story took place last week in Kissimmee, Florida

Rob- First story-  Do you have a way to defend yourself when you meet someone to buy a cellphone?

You want a new cell phone. You searched around and found a seller on Craigslist. You agree to meet at nearby store. It is daylight and there are people around, so it looks safe enough.

You meet the seller and ask to see the phone. He raises the price and raises his voice. He angrily demands to see the money.

You are carrying your handgun concealed. The buyer gets angrier and he tells you to give him all your money. He reaches for his belt.

You step back and draw your handgun. You fire as you run away. The robber gets in his car and drives away. You call police.

The police find the robber and take him to a local hospital. They take the robber’s gun as evidence. Police book your attacker for armed robbery.

This story sounds scary, but is it that unusual?

David- Citizens defend themselves with guns thousands of times a day. Most are assaults in public.

Rob- What is the first thing we should do to defend ourselves?

David- Think about your defense now, and where your risks are. Daylight in a public place may present less risk, but any encounter involving meeting a stranger to exchange cash is not risk-free. Don’t buy into the falsehood that “it’s a safe neighborhood,” or worse, “it can’t happen to me”.

Call your police department and ask them if they have a place with video cameras so people can safely buy and sell face to face. Most do, and it doesn’t cost you a thing to be safer tomorrow.

Rob- It sounds like our defender carried a gun on his body when he was attacked.

David- Have your defensive tools.  Have a permit, if required in your state…but don’t stop there. Learn how to present, and then practice it.

Rob- Someone who doesn’t have a gun can’t master self-defense this afternoon. What are the stepping stones to get there.

David- The best, first thing that anyone can do is incorporate awareness and good personal safety habits into their daily life. Read! (Jeff Cooper, David Fowler, Steve Tarani, Andrew Branca) And you don’t need a gun of your own to get started. Many ranges and schools have loaners or rentals you can use…and that might be the best way to learn which gun you might want to purchase. Then once you’ve made that decision, continue to train and practice.

That is enough for now. Our second story happened last week in Greenville, South Carolina.

Rob- Second Story-  Are you armed as you leave home and get in your car?   

You own a gun. You have your concealed carry permit. You put your gun on as you dress for the day. You’re walking out to your truck parked in the driveway. As you open the door to climb in you see someone come around the corner of your house. He is wearing dark clothes, a sweatshirt, a hat, and has a bandana over his face. He says something, but it is hard to understand him.He also has a gun in his hand. You’re not used to seeing a gun pointed at you, but it is clear you’re being robbed.

You move out of the way as your attacker fires at you. You draw your gun and fire at him. He runs away. You run back in the house and call police.

You are shaking with excitement, but you’re not hit. The police find the bullet holes in your truck and your house where the robber fired as he ran away.

David- Being both prepared and aware made the difference. Not only did our citizen have his defensive firearm on his person…where it should be!…he also had his head up and his eyes open. This allowed him to see the threat and react.

Rob- What would you tell a beginner to do?

David- Drop the keys and run.

Rob- What did our defender do correctly?

David- When the would-be robber decided he had urgent business elsewhere, our good guy let him go. Don’t chase the bad guys. A concealed carry license does not make us police officers; we carry to defend, not to apprehend. Take care of your own safety, and call the police.

Rob- Two interactions w the police. 911 and then with officers who arrive. What do you tell your students to do?

David- Be the first to call. I personally plan to give the dispatcher my physical description, and to let them know that I am licensed and armed. Do not have a gun in your hand when the police roll up…don’t assume that they know you are the good guy. Show them empty hands, and expect to be handcuffed until they sort things out.

Rob- What could our good guy have done better?

David- Practice shooting, because our good guy missed. A more committed robber may have pressed the attack, and misses don’t count.

Rob- Most people don’t practice that way when they go to  the range. They don’t practice as if their life depended on the first shot.

David-  Stepstones. Safety, routine handling, concealed carry, presentation and self-defense.

Rob- What else do you notice.
David- Well, I couldn’t help but notice that in the video interview of our good guy, he happily shows the interviewer his revolver…with his finger on the trigger. He won the day, but he could clearly use a bit more training. Shooting yourself is a less than ideal way to begin a gunfight.

Rob- Sounds like our defender has to go back to a firearms safety class.

David- We cover review that in every class. Our next story took place in Louisville, Kentucky.

Rob- Fist this message from my friends at CPRC

Please support the Crime Prevention Research Center at

Rob- third story- Are you armed as you sit in your office?

A customer comes into your office. He needs some paperwork processed for a car he bought. The man seems upset and argues with one of the clerks who is trying to help him. Finally, the clerks ask him to leave. The customer says he is going to get a gun and come back and shoot up the place.

The two clerks in the front of the store step outside to see if the customer is coming back. The customer shoots at the two clerks.

That is when you get up from your desk. You are a gun owner. You have your carry permit and are armed. You shoot at the attacker and he runs. You call police and ask for EMTs to treat your injured friends.

The police ask if you know who attacked your co-workers. Of course you do since he gave you his name and address.

A K9 unit finds the attackers gun near the scene of the crime. Police arrest your attacker. He had a previous drug conviction. This time he is charged with two counts of assault, possession of a handgun by a convicted felon, wanton endangerment, tampering with physical evidence, trafficking a controlled substance, possession of a controlled substance.

David- The most important thing I learned during my time as a police officer is that there are no “Mayberrys”. There are truly bad, violent people in your world. There are career criminals who view you as simply an obstacle to what they want. They do not value life as we do, and have zero concern for you.

Rob- What should we do.

David- POGO. Be alert, be vigilant. Have defensive tools and the skills to use them.

At home. At the office. This was Kentucky, so you can get your CCW. You could carry as you go to lunch or to the bank…and not all businesses are “gun free zones.”

Rob- You could start to make your family safer today even if you won’t have your permit until tomorrow.

David- Kentucky has made it very easy to get a CCDW. After completing a 6-8 hour training class, you can apply either at your Sheriff’s office or online through the Kentucky State Police. The online process is extremely quick, and I have heard of people actually having their license in hand in less than 7 days from submitting their application. Easier to transport to your office with CCW, and a lot of states have “parking lot laws” which allow you to have your gun in your vehicle, even if they don’t let you carry in the office. With this, at least you are able to defend yourself to and from work. The good guy with a gun stopped an attack and saved his co-workers.

Rob- You gave us a plan to be armed. What should we do if this were our office?

David- Ask for help. Treat the injured. Call police. Go get a medical kit and training.

Rob- Did you see injured people as an LEO.

David- Absolutely. And in my current role in corporate security, one of the things I teach is a personal safety and self defense class. In it, one of the things I emphasize is having both the tools and training to care for yourself or others medically until help arrives. I want to keep my family alive until EMTs arrive.

Rob- Even the simplest story is complex. Let’s stop here and go on to our fourth story.

David- I noticed that we’re using four stories now.

Rob- Thank you for listening.

David- Our fourth story took place in Madison, Wisconsin.

Rob- Fourth story- Do you have a gun nearby as you get up out if bed in the middle of the night?

At first you’re not sure if you hear something or not. You listen, and now you’re sure. Someone is breaking into your house. You go to your gun safe and get your handgun. You see the intruder come in through the kitchen window. You shout for him to leave. He does, and in a hurry. Your wife calls the police. You both go check on the two children in the house. Police noticed where the robber cut through your window screens.

David- I like this family. Do you know why the homeowner heard the burglar prying open the window before the intruder got inside the house? He heard the burglar because the homeowner locked his doors. The burglar couldn’t walk in, he had to break in and make noise. Again, don’t assume you live in Mayberry…you don’t.

It starts out as a simple burglary…perhaps the criminal didn’t expect anyone to be home. The problem comes when a resident is home, and things become violent. Then it’s a robbery. A common bit of advice we hear is, “just give them what they want.” But it doesn’t always end there. Better to be armed.

Rob- There were young children in the home. I think they were 5 and 6 years old. How do you keep your gun so you can get it but your children can’t? Fast access safe?

David- The homeowner gave a good description of the intruder. So even though the story doesn’t mention a flashlight or if the homeowner turned on the lights, I think he did.

Rob- so even if I have a dusty gun up on a closet shelf, I should also have a flashlight next to it?

David- Don’t shoot at what you can’t see. It’s difficult to shoot accurately in the dark, and is extremely risky legally and morally. Don’t plan for it. Don’t do it. Plan for a light. Get a light, and practice with a light.

The suspect is described as a white man in his 20’s with an athletic/slender build. He has shoulder-length dirty blonde hair parted down the middle. He was wearing a gray zip-up hooded sweatshirt.

Rob- Did the homeowner have the right to point a gun at an intruder?

David- Yes, but you need to be able to articulate a threat.

Rob- Is there more?

David- Rob- That is enough for now. We’ll be back after this message from Faster Colorado.

Please support Coloradans for Civil Liberties

Exit-  Rob- That wraps up this episode. David Cole, thank you for helping us again. Where can we learn more about you?

David- My training website is Aegis Solutions  on Facebook, and I’m also at BlackManWithAGun.com

Rob- Let us know what you think. Do you like the longer podcast with four stories? Do you want more personal news from our instructors? Leave us a message on the podcast facebook page.  We have an inbox there if you don’t want to leave your message in public.

David-  We share this podcast with you for free.  All we ask is that you share the podcast with a friend and give us a rating on I-Tunes and Stitcher.  We’re also available on Google Play Music and Spotify.

This podcast is part of the Self-defense radio network. Find the other shows at sdrn.us

Rob- I’m Rob Morse.  We’ll be back next week with more Self-Defense Gun Stories.

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