Episode 136 with Tony Simon
Rob- Introduction- I’m glad you found us. Welcome to episode 136 of Self-Defense Gun Stories.
Tony- Hi, Rob. I’ve been working, shooting and instructing. We also had a two day class with Rob Pincus. Working the schedule for 2019.
Rob- I’m looking for a spanish speaking podcaster who will make a spanish version of Self-Defense Gun Stories. If you know someone, then please ask them to contact us. Until then, Tony, please introduce our podcast to our new listeners.
Tony- We study several examples where gun owners survived a life threatening situation. Were they lucky, or did they have a plan? What should we do if we were in their place? Our first story took place last week in Springfield, Missouri.
You’re visiting with your relatives. It is after dinner and the first sign of trouble is the sound of shots from the backyard. You step out the back door to see a police officer standing next to a stranger kneeling on the ground. You walk over to the officer and notice that the officer has his gun out. The suspect sitting on the ground has a gun too. The stranger’s gun is pointed at you. Now you notice that the suspect is bleeding. You say, “Hey, there is an ambulance in front of the house, you’re going to be OK.”
The stranger raises his firearm and you shoot the man threatening you. So does the police officer. The police officer’s gun was jammed when you walked over. The officer cleared his firearm and reloaded as you talked to the armed fugitive. The same criminal who had already shot at the police.
Tony- That is a frightening situation for everyone involved. Too bad the bad guy forced people to shoot him.
Rob- What did our defender do right?
Tony- The defender had his firearm on him and was ready to use it to defend a life. He knew what could happen if he had to pull the trigger. He used verbal skills to express what he would do if the bad guy didn’t do what he was told. He also used those skills to let the officer know that he was a good guy.
Rob- It must be a shock to see a wounded man in your backyard.. And to discover you’re standing next to a police officer.
Tony- I say it over and over. You never know what your fight will look like. Who practices to be backup for a uniformed officer in your family’s backyard?
Rob- What would you tell your students to do?
Tony- know your line, what makes you get involved as a third party in a armed confrontation?
It’s important to understand that carrying a firearm for personal protection doesn’t make you a police officer. You don’t have to run to the sound of gun fire. Becoming involved in this confrontation could have cost the good guy his life. He could have been killed by either officer or the bad guy.
Rob- It also makes it very clear why you don’t run around with a gun in your hands. You don’t point your gun at a dark shape.
Tony- That is what bad guys do. That will get you shot if one of those dark shapes is a cop. Here are some other lessons.
This happened at night, do you carry a flashlight? Does your self defense gun have a weapon mounted light?
Rob- Anything else?
Tony- That is enough for now. Our second story happened last week in Charlotte, North Carolina.
You’re selling your video game console and some games. An online buyer wants to see it, and he says he has cash. It is a few days before Christmas, and you could use the money. Two men come over. They want to see the games and make sure they work. They seem to like them. The two men attack you and try to take the games. You’re armed and you shoot your attackers. You stay in your apartment and call police and EMTs.
Tony- We’ve seen this story before.
Rob- I’m sorry. I thought news report came in last week.
Tony- It happens every week. Don’t invite strangers to your home. You don’t know who answers your ads. Conduct person to person sales at the local police station.
Rob- What did our defender do correctly?
Tony- POGO Having your handgun on your person is something to practice doing so it comes naturally. We had many stories on this podcast about citizens saving lives, lives that would have be lost if the good guy had to run away to get a gun and then run back.
Rob- Our good guy defended himself. What else did he do correctly?
Tony- Call the police, stay on the scene and point out evidence and witnesses if you can because that is what the good guys do.
Rob- What would you tell your students to do..besides sell their video games so they have more money to take training classes with you?
Tony- Be aware that there are predators online that look for trusting people to invite them to their homes.
Our third story happened last week outside of Little Rock, Arkansas.
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It is dark outside and things are quiet. That is why the screams and pounding on your front door come as such a shock. You turn on the front porch light and see your neighbor slumped down on the ground. You quickly open the door and see your neighbor’s son running at you with something in his hand. You know that your neighbor’s son has been in trouble with the law before. You tell him to stop. The son steps closer to his father, and you see that the son has a rock in his hand. You draw your firearm and tell him to leave. The attacker steps back and you call police and EMTs.
They arrive a few minutes later. Your neighbor died at the hospital from injuries he received from his son. The son is arrested. He was out on parole for an earlier violent attack.
Tony- The son broke through the back door of his father’s home. The bad guy in this story had a history of attacking his father. He was on parole for attacking his dad in 2014 and stealing his father’s car. A definite bad guy.
Rob- So this sort of attack is happens fairly often?
Tony- Way too often. Sadly many violent confrontations are between people that know each other. Assaults with fists and a club are far more common than a shooting. That’s one of the reasons that I stress to my students that you can’t predict your self defense confrontation. Listen to a show like this one and you will see attacks from relatives, co-workers, boyfriends or complete strangers.
Rob- Was a gun the right tool for defense?
Tony- A rock was used as a deadly weapon. The bad guy was using deadly force on a much older and weaker man. Deadly force is justified if you fear for your life or serious physical harm. The much younger and stronger man could still have been a deadly threat using only his bare hands.
Rob- What did our defender do correctly?
Tony- POGO, Identify the threat. Present the gun. Give verbal commands..and be ready to follow up with lethal force. The son came a step away from dying right there.
Rob- What else do you see?
Tony- Porch light. How did you know that the person running at you was the neighbors son. How did you see what was in his hands? Bring a flashlight when you open your door late at night.
Rob- Anything else?
Tony- Our forth story took place last week in Phoenix, Arizona.
You work at a convenience store. You’re brewing more coffee and setting out snacks for your customers. A man and a young teenager walk in and demand money from the cash register. The man has a gun in his hand and he says he’ll shoot you. You back up toward the cash register, but then you draw your gun and shoot your attacker. Your attacker drops his gun and both robbers try to run.
The adult robber falls down, but the teenager runs away. Police say these two robbers had robbed two other stores and beaten another store clerk that morning.
Tony- Criminals commit crimes for a living. They are used to using violence to get what they want. They come in with a plan. You are way behind by the time you’ve figured out that you are at risk and that need to use violence to defend yourself.
Rob- You’re telling me that there is more to learn about self-defense than how to press a trigger.
Tony- Criminals especially lifelong criminals use violence as a tool in their tool box. They will use a weapon to intimidate, beat or kill anyone that gets in their way. You never know if you are facing a hardened criminal or someone thats committing their first crime and is more afraid than you are at the time. Both of them can kill you. If you buy a firearm for personal protection get training, practice, keep it loaded and have a plan when it comes to its use. Listen to shows like this and figure out when would you use your firearm.
Rob- Thank you. I want them to learn from you rather than from their own painful mistakes. What did our defender do correctly?
Tony- Drawing your firearm from concealment should be something that you practice. If you can move to the sides and behind cover or concealment that’s even better. Having your draw concealed from the bad guy cuts down on the time the bad guy has to react. Work on moving to the side, drawing from concealment and putting shots on target at the range. You want the bad guy to have to react to you not standing still like a victim but a moving challenge that takes the initiative away from them.
Rehearse movement as you draw a firearm. Don’t be in the same place at the end of the draw as you were at the beginning of the draw.
Rob- Did this convenience store clerk need a permit to carry in his store?
Tony- He did not need a permit to carry inside his business, but he might need it when he emptied the trash or met a delivery person outside the back door. Arizona is shall issue, so if you don’t have a criminal record then you can get a permit. You take your class and get your permit in about a month.
Rob- What would you tell your students?
Tony- I tell students that pulling the trigger is only a part of a self defense shooting. There is a lot to be done afterwards and they must stay focused. Being safe with the firearm, seeing if the bad guys are still a threat, calling the police, keep witnesses safe and in place until the authorities arrive. Calling your lawyer if you have one.
The story doesn’t say how far the robber ran before the attacker collapsed. You should protect the people who are in the store with you. It is also called honoring the witnesses.
Tell them to please stay down. You don’t know if there are more attackers or if they’ve all left. Ask if anyone is hurt. Ask them to look around and tell you if they see anyone else who is hurt. Ask each of them to call 911. Also, don’t point your gun at the witnesses.
If you have witnesses in danger then you might have to remove the firearm from your attacker. If you can get everyone to the back room, then keep them safe. Make sure that you call 911 also. Once you’re save, then put your gun is back in the holster before the police arrive.
Rob- That is another reason to have the gun in a holster and not stuffed on a shelf behind the cash register. The thing’s you’re describing go beyond basic firearms safety. When do you go over these topics with your students?
Tony- Crawl, walk, run. We talk about it. We walk it through, then they practice with an unloaded gun. Once they can move, draw and dry fire safely we do the real thing at the shooting range. We go on to firing multiple shots on target quickly and accurately.
Exit- Rob- I learn something from you every time. Where can we learn more about you?
Rob- After you leave a message with Tony, then leave us a message on the podcast facebook page.
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Rob- This podcast is part of the Self-defense radio network. Find more great podcasts at sdrn.us
I’m Rob Morse. Happy new year, and we’ll be back next week with more Self-Defense Gun Stories.