Episode 144 with Tiffany Johnson
Rob- Introduction- I’m glad you found us. Welcome to episode 144 of Self-Defense Gun Stories.
This podcast is for people who are curious about self-defense, and for those who’ve already taken training. I’m your host, Rob Morse. We’re joined this week by self-defense instructor Tiffany Johnson.
Tiffany- Hi, Rob. I’ve been teaching and working on the Tactical Conference coming up next month.
Rob- We had four more reviews on iTunes this week. Please go to the iTunes store where you subscribe to podcasts and give us a rating and leave a comment. We get about one comment per two thousand downloads, so we’re working hard for everyone.
Tiffany- Each week we talk about recent news stories where gun owners were in life threatening situations. Were these defenders lucky, or did they have a plan? We also give you the links to the original news article in our show notes.
Our first story took place last week in Greene County, Tennessee.
It is about 9 in the evening on a saturday night, and you and your wife are at home. You hear someone beating on the side of your house. You get up and go to the front door, but no one is there. You go back inside an hear someone beating on your back door. This time you grab your shotgun and go investigate. You see two men and tell them to go away. You open the door to shout at them and they push their way inside. You chase one man who is headed toward your bedroom and your wife. He grabs you and pushes you toward the bed. You fall down, then roll over and shoot the home invader.
Now the intruder runs out of your home. You walk back into the center of your home to see the second intruder stick his head through the door before he also runs away. You call police.
They find your attackers nearby. They are charged with aggravated assault, and burglary/breaking and entering.
Tag- husband and wife, shotgun
Tiffany, what do you see in this story?
Tiffany– I like that our homeowners…
Had a gun, didn’t give up when fight went to the ground
- didn’t forget about second intruder
Tiffany- I also like that..
- Promptly called police
- Didn’t chase the intruders when they left
Rob- Do we see many home invasions with multiple intruders?
- FBI Crime reports (2017) – about 1.4M burglaries a year, 67% = residential
- Someone is home about 28% of the time (2010 Study, BJS)
- Many work alone, but some do work in pairs or groups
Rob- What would you like your students to do if they were in this situation?
- Be armed whenever you can
- call the police as soon as you detect a problem
- DO NOT open your door for strangers, ever.
- DO NOT go to the problem (“went outside to investigate”)
Rob- Where would they learn to do that?
Tiffany- training 🙂
Rob- Anything else?
Tiffany– That is enough for now. Our second story happened last week in Dubuque, Iowa.
It is after midnight on a weekday night. You hear a number of men shouting and beating on your front door. You get up and walk toward the front door before you decide to go back upstairs and get your handgun. By the time you get back downstairs, you see three young men standing inside your home after they kicked in your front door. The intruders see you, and they see the gun in your hand. They turn and run.
You call police. The police arrest the three young men who say they entered the wrong home when they were looking for another young man they wanted to fight. All three are charged with felony burglary.
Tag- no shots fired
Tiffany- The first thing I see is that our defender had a gun when he needed it. I also like that he did not press the trigger?
Rob- Could he have shot them? Should he?
Tiffany- AOJ. But, the defender didn’t use the gun. He had distance from the intruders, and they didn’t move toward him. I want my students to know when they they must use a gun.
Rob- Where would they learn that?
Tiffany- training 🙂
Rob- What should we do if we’re in that situation?
Tiffany- Have a plan because we don’t think very well in the middle of the night when someone wakes us up. Your plan should be to have your gun, your flashlight, and your cell phone before you investigate a problem. Call the police. Stay at the top of the stairs and wait.
Rob- What else?
Tiffany– that’s about it. Kudos to our defender in this case who appears to have gotten the best possible outcome – no loss of life, no physical injury, no further escalation beyond the initial break-in
Rob- A break in is stressful. To do the right thing under stress requires practice or luck. Since we can’t count on luck, how should we train and practice?
Tiffany- Our third story happened last week in Murfreesboro, Tennessee.
Rob- First this message from my friend Laura Carno.
You’re behind the counter at a pawn and gun shop. It is the middle of the day in the middle of the week. Four teenagers walk into the store along with other customers. The two older teenagers ask to see some handguns. You show them the guns, but they don’t seem to be listening. You exchange looks with the three other employees who are in the display room. Two of the teens grab your guns and run. Two of the store owners and two employees are right behind them. All of you are armed. One of your employees tackles one of the robbers. You corner one of them as he tries to enter his car. Other store employees have already called the police.
You’ve seen these four criminals before. You were robbed earlier this month. You show the security video to the police. The police connect these robbers with several other gun shop robberies in your area.
Tag- no shots fired
Tiffany– (What did they do right?)
- This story hits home. I live in Memphis but I teach in Murfreesboro. I’ve been to that Gun Store recently and I think I was even assisted by one of the gentleman who held the thieves at gunpoint
- Excellent attentiveness – they recognized the problem before it materialized
- Great communication among co-workers
- Really glad they were armed
Rob- Is a crime like this fairly common?
- we hear of “snatch and run” type thefts a lot (relatively low risk, low overhead for criminal, etc.)
- Not a fan of chasing criminals
- Not a fan of holding people at gunpoint
- But I’m also not a store owner, so tough to Monday-morning quarterback
Tiffany– Our forth story took place last week in Jackson County, Georgia.
It is a little after noon when you hear someone at your back door. You’re a 79 year old grandmother and you are home alone. You are worried, so you call the police. You have them on the phone when the intruder breaks the glass of your back door. You shoot at the intruder and he runs away. A few minutes later you hear someone break through the glass door on your upstairs porch. Now you hear him upstairs. You shoot at him again.
The police arrive a few minutes later and arrest the 20 year old man as he hid in an upstairs closet.
Tiffany– Good that she had a gun. Great that she called the police before the intruder broke in. I also like the fact that she did not go out the back door to pursue the intruder and didn’t go upstair to find him. Let the police do that.
Rob- When do you talk about that with your students?
Tiffany– as often as possible
Rob- What do you want your students to do in a situation like this?
Tiffany– Have your gun and your phone.
Rob- She might not have been able to get them if the intruder was in the middle of her house.
Tiffany– Don’t shoot at people unless they are an immediate and unavoidable threat. In some counties, grandma would be arrested.
Rob- Help me understand that a little better.
- In order to justify deadly force, threat must be immediate
- Can’t shoot someone who might be a threat ten minutes from now
- That’s why we teach no warning shots
- Inherent contradiction – if you didn’t think the person needed to be physically stopped right now, then you didn’t meet the legal prerequisites of deadly force
- That being said, once someone breaks the glass on your door, I think the threat is immediate, especially here with the great disparity of force
- Another minor point – don’t taunt your attacker. You can’t encourage an attacker to come towards you and then claim you were frightened by his advance
Exit- Rob- that wraps up this episode. Tiffany, thank you for helping us again. Where can we learn more about you?
Rob- After you look at Tiffany’s website, then leave us a message on the podcast facebook page.
Tiffany– We share this podcast with you for free. Please share the podcast with a friend and give us a rating on I-Tunes and Stitcher. We’re also available on Google Play Music, Tunein and Spotify.
Rob- This podcast is part of the Self-defense radio network at sdrn.us I’m Rob Morse. We’ll be back next week with more Self-Defense Gun Stories.