Episode 149 with Elizabeth Hautman

Rob- Introduction-

I’m glad you found us and welcome to episode 149 of Self-Defense Gun Stories. This podcast is for people who are curious about self-defense, and for those who are already trained. I’m your host, Rob Morse. We’re joined this week by self-defense instructor Elizabeth Hautman.

Elizabeth- Hi, Rob.  I’ve been fantastic, working with Friends of the NRA spreading the good news at a ladies day at a Cabela’s and of course teaching and coaching.  

Rob- We’re up to 37 comments on iTunes. One reviewer said, “All the stories are ones in which the gun owner executes flawlessly and the decision to use the weapon is never scrutinized.” Close quote. This is also our only one-star review.

Elizabeth- Did he listen to a single podcast? Please rate his comment on iTunes and leave a comment of your own.

We’ll talk about recent examples where gun owners were in a life threatening situation. Were they lucky, or did they have a plan? What should we do if we were in their place? We give you the links back to the original news article in our show notes.  Our first story took place last week in the southern suburbs of Atlanta, Georgia.

Rob- First story-  Are you armed as you arrive at work?  

You make deliveries for a florist. It is the middle of the day and you filled the van with gasoline before you returned to the shop. Two men follow you from the gas station across the street. You park at the back of the flower shop and these two men yell at you to stop. You turn around and see one of the men with a gun in his hand. You run towards the back door of the store, and your attacker shoots at you. You slide on the pavement, fall down, and then scramble inside. You slam the door closed behind you.

You shout to your five co-workers that you’ve been attacked. You run to the cash register and grab your gun. A second later, your attacker runs in the front door and starts shooting at everyone. You shoot back. Now your attacker runs away.

You call police. There were customers inside the store only a few seconds before the shooting began. Police arrest your attacker and charge him with six counts of aggravated assault.

Elizabeth- I like that the delivery driver defended himself and the other people working in the store. He kept fighting after he fell down. He locked the back door as he ran inside, and he kept fighting when the bad guy was shooting at him.

Rob- That is a lot of presence of mind to do all that.

Elizabeth- If you never thought about it before, you’ll stand there like a deer in the headlights.

Rob- You think our delivery driver had a plan in mind. What would you like our students to do, what plan do you want us to have in mind, if we’re in this situation?

Elizabeth- Because he didn’t have his gun with him, our defender had to run into the business to defend himself. He led the bad guys to his co-workers. I want you to have your self-defense tool with you.

There were six people in the store, and only one gun to defend them.

Our good guy shot and missed. He needs more practice at the range under pressure.  I recommend competitions to up the ante for fun and see how you perform.

It isn’t clear if the gun behind the counter belonged to the delivery driver, or to someone else. It might have been “the store gun.”

Rob- You have business owners as students. What are the big issues you talk about with them?

Elizabeth- What I tell my business owners to do is first, pay attention to the customer, are they new to firearms?  And also, mind their own awareness of the safety rules – treat all guns as if they are loaded, check the firearm and make sure it is empty and also, since the customer is going to point and click, show the customer the safe direction to point the firearm, to ‘test it out.’

Rob- Anything else?

Elizabeth- That is enough for now. Our second story happened last week outside Dunlap, Tennessee.

Rob- Second Story-  Are you armed when you’re standing outside your home?

It is an hour after sunset and you’re walking back home. You live in a heavily wooded area outside of town. The homes are hundreds of yards apart. You hear something crashing through the brush and you ask who is there. A strange man appears from the woods and you shout for him to stop. He turns toward you and runs faster. You’re armed. You backup and present your firearm. You shoot your assailant. Now he turns away. You back into your house and call police.

Police are in the area looking for an car thief who was described as armed and dangerous. They find the stolen car nearby. They find your attacker nearby as well. He’s taken to the hospital and then to jail. The police continue to search your property for your attacker’s firearm.

Elizabeth- This homeowner had a gun on his body. He backed away. He recognized a threat coming at him out of the dark. Our homeowner defended himself. He then moved to safety and called the police.

Rob-  When should we stop defending ourselves?

Elizabeth- Once you are not being pursued anymore by the attacker, either the attacker is running away or is down, get to a safe area. If you are attacked in the parking lot, and you have shot your attacker, don’t stand around, go back into the building to call police.  

Rob- What else would you like us to do.

Elizabeth- A flashlight would have helped. You need to identify what is going on. Flashlights can help in a couple of ways, they can blind or disorient the attacker and they can definitely give you help when identifying your target and what is beyond.

Our third story happened last week in Hamilton, Ohio.

Rob- First this message from Buckeye Firearms Association

Please support Buckeye Firearms Foundation

Rob- Third story- Are you armed when you’re at work and on the street?

Thank goodness for good neighbors. You and your dad work together in your real estate business. A neighbor said there were strangers around one of your listings, and the property should have been vacant. You and your dad visit the next day. You open the door and find someone inside. The young man says to get out of his home. The squatter said he has a knife, and he’ll stab you. He says he has a gun and he’ll shoot you if you don’t leave. You say this is your house, and the attacker punches you in the nose. Your dad grabs him, the the two men wrestle. You and your dad have concealed carry permits. You’re both armed.

You don’t want your dad to be hurt so you backup and draw your gun. You say you’ll shoot the attacker unless he lets go of your dad. The two men seperate, and your dad pushes the young man to the floor. You sit on him and call the police. The police say they are already on the way after a neighbor heard you scream.

Your attacker was charged with assault, menacing and trespassing.

Tag- No Shots Fired.

Elizabeth- Both of them had defensive tools. The dad was 63 years old, but he grabbed the attacker when the attacker was faced toward his son. They created distance and drew their firearms.

They did not shoot even after the son was punched, and that takes some presence of mind. The son didn’t let his anger get the best of him.

Rob- How common is it that people defend themselves without firing a shot?

Elizabeth-  It happens every day, and of course, no news is no news.  We don’t hear about the things that don’t happen.

I looked at the video and these were two large men. They decided they could use physical force to restrain the attacker. Most of us shouldn’t do that.  For that matter, I would have called the police from the beginning and have them check the house out with me. If I even think there is something unusual when I approach the door, I don’t want to be alone, gun included.

I want them to retreat outside and call the police once they see that someone is in the home. Let the police get into a fight with a crazy druggie home invader so you don’t have to.

Elizabeth- Do you know how to defend a loved one when they are wrestling with someone else?

Elizabeth- Our forth story took place last week in Louisville, Kentucky.

Rob- Fourth story- Do you have your self-defense tools nearby early in the morning?

It is seven in the morning on Sunday. A facial expression is worth a thousand words, and your girlfriend looks shocked after she reads a text on her phone. A few seconds later your girlfriend’s 11 year old daughter runs into your room. She shouts that there is a stranger in her room. Your girlfriend’s two younger daughters in the house as well. You walk into your daughter’s room and see a pile of men’s clothes. You search the house and see a man in his underwear standing in the kitchen. You shout for him to leave. The stranger growls and attacks you.

Your girlfriend gets your gun. You push your attacker away and grab the gun from your girlfriend. You shoot your attacker six times and he retreats out the door.

You call police. They find your attacker a few houses away. They also find heroin in the pocket of the pants he left behind. Your attacker faces charges for first-degree burglary, possession of a controlled substance and fourth-degree assault.. when he gets out of the hospital.

Elizabeth- Well that is quite a story.

Rob- You mentioned a druggie home invader, so I gave you another one.

Elizabeth- Did you ever. This is one of those times when you have to go see what is going on because you have other family members who are in danger. The boyfriend didn’t give up. The girlfriend got into the fight. The boyfriend shot until the threat stopped, and then he stayed inside and protected the house rather than chasing his attacker.

Elizabeth- How was the gun stored? Why didn’t the girlfriend defend her family? Did the girlfriend know how to shoot? Handing the boyfriend a gun is dangerous because the attacker could have grabbed for it.  And without experience it is easy to point a firearm at a person when passing it around, especially in a tense situation.

Elizabeth- If you have a gun in the home then all the adults should know the basics about how to use it. Also, they should be resolved to defend their family.

Rob- I bet mom went and got some training this week.
Elizabeth- Some of my students come to me after they or one of their loved ones were attacked. I want our listeners to get training before their family is at risk. You can protect your family, your self, and your community.

Exit-  Rob- that wraps up this episode. Elizabeth, thank you for helping us again. Where can we learn more about you?

Elizabeth- I instruct in Colorado Springs.  I teach small classes at my private range in Black Forest. Contact me at Colorado Boots Firearms Instruction.

Rob- After you look at Elizabeth’s website, leave us a message on the podcast facebook page.

Elizabeth- We share this podcast with you for free.  Please share the podcast with a friend and give us a rating on I-Tunes and Stitcher.  We’re also available on Google Play Music, Tunein, Spotify, and iHeartRadio.

Rob- This podcast is part of the Self-defense radio network. Find other great podcasts at sdrn.us I’m Rob Morse.  We’ll be back next week with more Self-Defense Gun Stories.

One Reply to “Episode 149 with Elizabeth Hautman”

  1. Will

    On that third story, I didn’t think you mentioned that when you are carrying a gun, every fight is a gun fight since you are bringing a gun. There is no such thing as “only a fist fight”. All sorts of things could have gone wrong because they decided to ignore the threat of weapons and go hands on. I do agree the best course of action was to pull back and call police.

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