Episode 175 with Jeff Street
Welcome to episode 175 of Self-Defense Gun Stories. Perhaps you’re well trained, or maybe you’re simply curious about self-defense. I’m Rob Morse and I’m glad you found us. We’re joined this week by self-defense instructor Jeff Street.
Jeff- Hi, Rob. I’ve been working and shooting and the weather is wonderful in sunny Florida.
Rob- We didn’t get any reviews or comments this week. Our listeners are our marketing department, so I’m asking you to go to the iTunes store where you subscribe to podcasts and let new listeners know this show is worth their time.
Jeff- We’ll talk about recent examples where gun owners were in a life threatening situation. Were they lucky, or did they have a plan? What should we do if we were in their place? We give you the links back to the original news article in our show notes. Our first story took place last week in San Antonio, Texas.
Rob- You and your friend are driving through San Antonio after work. You stop at a convenience store. You’re getting a drink when you notice a masked man pointing a gun at the store clerk. You’re armed. You’re friend puts his arm on yours. He has a taser and wants to try that first. Your friend tazes the armed robber. The attacker drops to the floor. A few seconds later the attacker reaches for his gun and tries to stand up. You shoot him. You both call police.
Police and EMTs arrive. They take a statement from you and other customers. They also get a copy of the security video.
What did our two defenders do correctly?
Jeff- Texas isn’t a constitutional carry state and doesn’t allow open carry without a license. That means our defenders had their concealed carry permits so they could carry their guns in public. They were armed. Our defenders recognized that the store clerk had not made a lethal threat against the robber. That means other citizens have the right to defend him. Our defenders had lethal and non-lethal tools. They tried non-lethal force, and then escalated to lethal force when they faced a threat the second time. They stayed at the scene. Called police, and made a statement.
Rob- We think about defending our family at home. It is another step to defend a stranger in a public place. Tell me about that.
Jeff- There are lots of small steps here.
Maybe you know the clerk because you use the same store once a week.
We’ve all seen the kids working at fast food restaurants. Maybe the clerk wasn’t 21 years old yet so he couldn’t get a permit and defend himself. Would you stand by while an innocent kid who was legally prohibited from defending himself was shot by a robber?
Maybe the clerk was older and had a permit, but didn’t want to draw his weapon in the face of an attacker who already had his gun out.
Maybe there were customers standing behind the attacker and the clerk didn’t want to defend himself because he was afraid of hitting bystanders.
Each of those situations might have a different answer. You won’t have time to make that decision, but you will have time to recognize a situation you’ve already thought about.
Rob- What would you like us to do if we were on either side of the checkout counter?
Jeff- Carry your defensive tools on your body. In many states, that means you need a permit, but not always. In some states you can carry at your place of business if you own the business. Often you can carry without a permit if you have the owner’s permission. Family members who work at the store can often carry without a permit.
Some small gas-station convenience stores sell alcohol. That means you can get drunks who are desperate for a drink and will rob the store to get it.
Have non-lethal force if you can. That could mean a taser and pepper spray. Buying them and putting them behind the counter isn’t enough. You need training to use them. Training teaches you what works. You can pepper spray someone who is grabbing you when they are too close to shoot. Maybe you can’t shoot someone across the room threatening another employee because you’re not confident about making that shot.
More than knowing the distance you need, going to a class will teach you the time you need. You typically have about 15 seconds to disarm someone after you tase them.
I also want you to have a trauma kit in your store. That might be for someone who is cut by a glass bottle, or it could be as serious as a gunshot wound.
Rob- Some of your students are small business owners. Did they read about an attack across the country or did it take an attack next door before they came to a class with you?
Rob- Anything else?
Jeff- That is enough for now. Our second story happened last week in Richland, Washington.
Rob- You’re walking down the street early in the morning. It is dark and a man steps in front of you and draws a gun. He says to empty your pockets. You do. In one pocket you have your Washington state concealed pistol license. You also have your firearm. You give him your money. You wait as he stuffs the cash into his pocket. Your attacker hits you in the face with his gun. That is when you move, draw your firearm, and shoot your attacker.
Now your attacker runs away. You call the cops. The police arrest your attacker, his wife, and his two teenage accomplices at the hospital. One of the teens has your money. The police found the robbers gun.
Your attacker is charged with first-degree robbery, first-degree assault and first-degree illegal gun possession. All have enhancements for firearms possession by a prohibited person. Your attacker was convicted of 13 felonies, including robbery, burglary, and possession of a firearm. He was out on parole.
Jeff- Our defender bought time. He gave the bad guy what he wanted. He moved and defended himself. He called the police and gave a report.
Rob- What would you like us to do.
Jeff- I want you to get to safety after you defend yourself. Maybe that means you run back to the store you left or to the convenience store at the corner.
You also win every fight you avoid, so stay off the street after midnight if you can. Some people work late. Stay away from strangers and cross the street if you have to. In a situation like this, it really helps if you have practice drawing your firearm from concealment. Presentation is a skill, just like marksmanship. Go learn how to do it efficiently.
Rob- Talk about that.
Jeff- An instructor shows you want to do. Then, he watches as you demonstrate what you saw. Then, the instructor corrects the things you didn’t see, or mis-emphasized. Now that you have the right pattern, you need to practice over time so the motion becomes automatic.
Rob- That sounds so easy.
Jeff- It is simple. It works every time, but you can’t become fast overnight. You have to put in a few minutes a week to make it automatic. Then it becomes fast.
Another thing I noticed from this story is that it took place in the dark. Shooting in low light is another skill I want you to have. You can always do some dry practice at home in the dim.
Jeff- Our third story happened last week in Chicago, Illinois.
Rob- First this message from the Second Amendment Foundation.
Rob- Please support the Second Amendment Foundation at SAF.org
Rob- You stop to buy something on your way home after work. You walk out of the store and turn down the street. You meet two men going the other way. They step in front of you. One of them pulls a gun from his pocket. They tell you to empty your pockets. You have your concealed carry license in your pocket. You have your concealed firearm on your hip. You step back, draw and fire your handgun. You shoot the armed attacker in the shoulder and thigh. Both men run. You run the other way and call police.
Your attacker is arrested at a local hospital.
Jeff- Our earlier story had one attacker. This one has two attackers, and that makes things harder for the defender. It is good that our defender had his permit. It is good that he was armed even though he only was out after work early in the evening. He defended himself when he saw a lethal an unavoidable theat. He stopped shooting when the threat stopped. He got to safety, called the police, and gave them a statement.
Rob- This is Chicago. What should we say to the police?
Jeff- Keep it simple.
Rob- Is there anything else you’d like us to do if we were in a similar situation?
Jeff- Pick the attacker that is the greatest threat. Move and present your firearm. Shoot the worst threat. If the other threat is still there, then shoot them. Don’t shoot them if they are running away.
Rob- I’ve had some classes inside shooting ranges where we could turn targets during a scenario. You didn’t want to shoot the back of the target. When do you talk to your students about the legal use of lethal force?
Jeff- Our last story took place last week in Columbia, South Carolina.
Rob- You have some sport shoes for sale. A buyer contacts you on facebook. You agree to meet at a local restaurant after dark. Your wife comes with you. The buyer walks up and asks if you have the shoes. You ask if he has the money. He pulls out a gun and tells you to give him your wallet and the shoes.
You’re armed. You draw your firearm and shoot your attacker. You and your wife run away and call the police. They find your attacker and take him to the hospital for treatment of a gunshot through his hand and his leg.
Jeff- This story is interesting. There is only one attacker, but there are two of you to defend. South Carolina doesn’t have constitutional carry and doesn’t allow open carry without a permit. I’m glad our defender had a permit and was carrying that evening. He recognized a threat. He defended his family and stopped shooting when the attacker ran away. He didn’t chase the attacker. He called the police and made a report.
Rob- What would you like us to do?
Jeff- Make your sales at the police station in the daytime. I want both of you to be armed. I want you to practice together so you can defend yourself without getting shot or shooting each other. Again, this attack was in the dim. That makes it harder to see your target and much harder to see what is behind your target. Don’t shoot into the restaurant across the street as your attacker runs away.
Also, do you have any first aid training?
Rob- You gave us homework.
Jeff- We’re here to learn. Most gunshot wounds are survivable. The survival rate goes up if we get treated quickly. Do you know how to save your wife’s life, and does she know how to save yours? Carry your kit with you, or at least in your car.
Exit- Rob- That wraps up this episode. Jeff, thank you for helping us again. Where can we learn more about you?
Rob- Leave us a message on the podcast facebook page after you look at Jeff’s classes.
Jeff- We share this podcast with you for free. Please share the podcast with a friend and give us a rating on I-Tunes and Stitcher. We’re also available on Google Play Music,Tunein, Spotify, and iHeart Radio.
Rob- This podcast is part of the Self-defense radio network at sdrn.us
I’m Rob Morse. We’ll be back next week with more Self-Defense Gun Stories.