Episode 190 with Elizabeth Hautman

Reality is stranger than fiction. Can you defend yourself from something you didn’t imagine?

Rob- Introduction-

Welcome to episode 190 of Self-Defense Gun Stories. We’re glad you found us if you’re well trained and if you’re new to self defense. I’m Rob Morse and we’re joined this week by firearms instructor Elizabeth Hautman. Have you received many calls during this virus epidemic?

Elizabeth- Hi, Rob.  I’ve been working from home and talking to new gun owners.

Rob- We received one more rating on iTunes last week (147/87). Please go to Stitcher and the iTunes store where you subscribe to podcasts and let new listeners know this show is worth their time.

Elizabeth- We have 100 million adults at home during the quarantine, and they only leave you a single rating?

Rob- They are busy doing other things. Are you still training, or are you “non-essential”?


Elizabeth- We’ll talk about recent examples where gun owners were in a life threatening situation. Were they lucky, or did they have a plan? What should we do if we were in their place? We give you the links back to the original news article in our show notes. Our first story took place last week in Tulsa, Oklahoma.

Rob- First story-  Are you armed as you go shopping?  

You’re walking out of a store in a small strip mall in the middle of the afternoon. You turn when you hear gunshots. At first you run away, but then you notice a woman who is shooting at people standing outside one of the stores. You duck down, but she keeps shooting at people who are yelling for her to stop. You’re armed. You draw and shoot the attacker. She drops her gun and gets into her car. You call the police and remain at the scene. You shout for everyone to call the police. The police arrest you, take you for questioning, look at the security videos, and release you.

The woman argued with people at one of the businesses, left the area, and came back with a gun and started shooting.

What did our defender do correctly?

Elizabeth- Can you imagine being in public and watching some crazy person attack a store? Our defender did. He found a gun that fit him. He found a holster that fit. He learned to carry and he learned to shoot and that happened a long time before he saw this attack.

The afternoon of the attack, he believed his eyes and ears, and that isn’t easy when we see something this unbelievable. He stopped shooting when the attacker stopped shooting. 

He stayed at the scene and contacted the police. He gave a statement to the police.

Rob- That is so much to get right, particularly because stopping mass murder isn’t what we think we’re training for. What would you like us to do if we were in a situation like this?

Elizabeth- You’re going to talk to the police. You can’t say nothing. You want to say everything. Remember to say little and ask for your lawyer. This isn’t being evasive. This is giving you the same opportunity that we give to police officers. You get one chance to present your story. If you say it right after the attack, then it will come out in pieces. Your lawyer knows how to put those pieces together, and that keeps you out of trouble.

Rob- What else would you like us to learn?

Elizabeth- shot at a distance

Rob- When do your students learn how far they can shoot?

Elizabeth- That is enough for now. Our second story happened near Atlanta, Georgia.

Rob- Second Story-  Are you armed at home?   

You met a woman on a dating site. You agreed to meet, but she wanted to bring a female friend of hers for safety. You let them inside. Your date’s friend walked to the back of your house. A minute later, your dog starts barking and growling. A strange man is standing in your kitchen. The stranger has a rifle pointed at you. You run, draw your gun, and shoot at your attacker. The three robbers run. You call police and EMTs. You’re shot and go to the hospital with non life threatening injuries.

The police visit nearby hospitals looking for your attackers.

Elizabeth- This man was set up to be robbed, and defended himself. I’m glad he was armed. Again, he believed what he saw and heard. He didn’t chase the bad guys. He called the police and gave a statement.

Rob- What would you tell your students to do?

Elizabeth- There are a number of small steps involved. Learn to hit your target. Learn to present from a holster. Learn to present from a concealed holster. Learn to present from a concealed holster as you move. Learn to present from a concealed holster and shoot your target as you move. You have to add complexity while retaining performance. It doesn’t do any good to move fast and miss.

Better yet is to avoid the problem. I bet this man wishes he’d known these strangers better before he let them into his home. 

Elizabeth- Our third story happened in Chicago, Illinois.

Rob- First this message from SAF

Rob- Third story- Are you armed on the street?

You’re walking through downtown a little after 9pm. Two men walk up to you and one of them is armed. He points a gun at you and tells you to give him everything. You have your Illinois concealed weapons license. You’re armed. You dig in your pockets, and then pull out your firearm and shoot at your attackers. They run, and so do you. You call the police.

The police told you that your attackers robbed two stores and hijacked a car, all in the half hour before they tried to rob you.

Our defender was armed in public.

Elizabeth- Our defender presented his firearm from concealment while he moved. He didn’t chase the bad guys. He called the police and filed a complaint.

Rob- What does it mean to “file a complaint”?

Elizabeth- Officer, I was attacked. I want you to find and arrest my attackers. I want you to press charges against them and I’ll be a witness in court.

Rob- What would you do in a situation like this one?

Elizabeth- Avoid a gun fight where you trade shots with your attackers. Wait until your attacker looks down or lowers their gun. Use that opportunity to move, draw, and shoot. You need to recognize how much time you need. Then, when you have that opportunity, you have to put shots on target.

Rob- It looks like our last two defenders shot at their attackers and missed.

Elizabeth- Shooting is a perishable skill. You need to dry practice and you need to go to the range. They substitute for each other a little bit, but you really need to do both.

Rob- Tell me about dry practice and shooting at the range. What drills would you run to stay sharp?

Rob- When do you teach your students to draw from concealment?

Elizabeth- Our forth story took place in Putnam County, Georgia.

Rob- Fourth story- Do you have a firearm nearby at night?

You’re in bed when you hear a loud crash and your house shakes. You wake up and hear someone on your back porch. You climb out of bed and grab your pistol. Someone is banging on your back door. You shout that you’re armed and to go away. A moment later, the intruder smashes the glass out of your back door and comes inside. You shoot him and he runs away to the kitchen. You hold him at gunpoint and call the police. The police were already on their way because your intruder tried to break into your neighbor’s house.

When the police arrive, they tell you to put away your gun and go to the other end of the house. They try to arrest your intruder. The intruder fights with the police and runs out your kitchen door. You were replacing the outside kitchen stairs so your intruder falls 9 feet to the ground.

Now the police put their suspect in handcuffs and shackles and send him to the hospital. Your attacker was charged with home invasion, burglary, three counts of felony obstruction and one count of disorderly conduct. He was out on bail and has a 20 page history of contacts with the police.

Our defender had a loaded firearm accessible at night.

Elizabeth- We have a lot of new gun owners in the last month, so let’s talk about proper storage of your gun.

Rob- Was the homeowner justified in shooting the intruder? 

Elizabeth- In Georgia, you don’t have a duty to retreat from your home, but you always have to articulate why this person was an immediate and unavoidable threat. The fact that he just smashed his way into your home through two doors using a steel weight gives you good reason to be afraid for your safety. If the intruder ran to your bathroom and locked the door, then you wouldn’t have that reason any longer.

Rob- So our new gun owners need to learn when and where they can defend themselves?

Elizabeth- And when they can’t. Learn the moral and legal use of lethal force. You are using a lethal weapon. 

Rob- Maybe they need pepper spray as well. Do you teach a course about defending your home?

Elizabeth- Yes, and we forgot to mention a flashlight. I don’t know if the homeowner turned on the lights, but you absolutely need to see and identify your attacker. Don’t shoot the college student who comes home early from spring break. Don’t shoot your drunk neighbor who doesn’t know where he is?

In this case, our defender shouted that he was home and that he was armed, and the attacker smashed through the door anyway.

Exit-  Rob- that wraps up this episode. Elizabeth, thank you for helping us again. Where can we learn more about you?

Elizabeth- I instruct in Colorado Springs at my private range in Black Forest. Contact me at Colorado Boots Firearms Instruction.

Rob- After you look at Elizabeth articles, then leave us a message on the podcast facebook page.

Elizabeth- We share this podcast with you for free.  Please share the podcast with a friend and give us a rating on I-Tunes and Stitcher. We’re also available on Google Play Music,Tunein, Spotify, Podbean and iHeart Radio.

Rob- This podcast is part of the Self-defense radio network. Find more great shows at sdrn.us

I’m Rob Morse.  We’ll be back next week with more Self-Defense Gun Stories.

One Reply to “Episode 190 with Elizabeth Hautman”

  1. Daniel Felsted

    I love listening to Self Defense Gun Stories! It always gives me scenarios to consider. It is amazing that more people don’t keep a firearm on them (POGO).

    PS: would love to get a number of stories shared on each podcast.

    Keep them coming. 5-stars

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