Episode 205 with Tony Simon
Welcome to episode 205 of Self-Defense Gun Stories. We’re glad you found us, and that’s true if you’re well trained and if you’re new to self defense. I’m Rob Morse and we’re joined this week by my friend and firearms instructor Tony Simon.
Tony- Hi, Rob. I’ve been working and teaching, but I had to do it in Pennsylvania.
Rob- We received four more ratings, but not a single comment this week on iTunes ( / ). (175/103). Please go to the iTunes store where you subscribe to podcasts and let new listeners know why they should listen.
Tony- We’ll talk about recent examples where gun owners were in a life threatening situation. Were they lucky, or did they have a plan? What should we do if we were in their place? We give you the links back to the original news article in our show notes. Our first story took place last week in Macon County, North Carolina.
Rob- First story- Are you armed at home?
It is after dark. You hear someone knocking at the side door of your house. You go to the door and turn on the light. You see a woman you don’t know and she’s asking for help. She has a mask on her face and she’s turned partially away from you. You ask her to speak up, but you still can’t hear her clearly. You open the door to hear her better and see what she wants.
A masked man appears at your door. He pushes the door open and forces his way into your home. You’re armed. You shoot your attacker and both strangers run away. You hear a car drive away, and you call the police. The police find your wounded robber at the hospital and then arrest the four people who were trying to rob you.
You are 76 years old. You move with a walker. Your gun is in a basket on the side of your walker. Your four robbers were planned to rob you for your money and the drugs in your medicine cabinet. The robbers were going to trade your drugs for heroin. Police also arrested two drug dealers in a nearby hotel. Your four attackers are charged with burglary, assault on a handicapped person, and drug possession. They are held on 200 thousand dollars bail.
Rob- What did our defender do to save his life?
Tony- Our defender paid attention to an important part of having a defensive mindset. Pants on gun on. He was able to change his mindset from being a good Samaritan to being his own first responder in second. He had the skills to put rounds on target while being assaulted.
Rob- Is there anything else you’d like us to do if we were in his place?
Tony- Don’t open your doors to strangers. A locked door doesn’t stop the sound of a person’s voice but it will slow down or stop criminals. If a “person in need” can’t speak loudly but you think they need help call the police to assist them.
Rob- How did an elderly man beat four attackers?
Tony- He had come to the decision that he is responsible for his personal safety and took steps to arm himself with a force multiplier, his handgun. He may have trained and practiced with it enough to be competent and he made the decision to attach it to his Walker so it’s in reach at all times.
Rob- When do you talk about that with your students?
Tony- We discuss the student’s “Why” of owning a firearm and taking a class during our class introduction. During that time we have a conversation about defensive firearms use.
Rob- Anything else?
Tony- That is enough for now. Our second story happened in Dallas, Texas.
Rob- Second Story- Are you armed as you stop for gas?
It is ten at night on the fourth of July. Your car is low on fuel. It is hot outside and your two young boys are asleep in the back seat. You pull into a convenience store and leave your car running. You get out to pump gas. You look up to see a stranger open your driver’s door and get into your car. You quickly dive into the back seat with your kids. You shout for the kidnapper to stop the car, but he drives out of the gas station. You grab your gun from the center console and shoot your attacker in the face. The car crashes into a fence. You grab your boys and get out of the car. There, you call 911.
EMTs take your attacker to the hospital. Your attacker had a criminal record including assault and family violence, arson, theft, making a terroristic threat, resisting arrest, and drug charges. He is facing additional charges of kidnapping and vehicle theft if he recovers.
Tony- This incident may have been avoidable if the car was locked with the windows open enough to let air into the car. Also the parent should have the firearm on their person not in the car.
Rob- Some people who carry on their body might put their gun in the center console so it is more accessible when they are wearing a seat belt. What should they do when they get out of their car?
Tony- Holster your firearm and take it with you or secure it in a lock box in the vehicle.
Rob- Where would your students go to learn to present a firearm as they were seated in their car?
Tony- Sadly most can’t legally carry in their vehicle in New Jersey. If they are interested in learning how we would go over those techniques in a separate class or work one on one during individual training sessions.
Our third story happened in Brownsburg, Indiana.
Rob- First this message from SAF
Rob- Third story- Are you armed when you drive?
You’re driving through town in the middle of the afternoon. You’re stopped at an intersection waiting for the light to change. Two strangers run across the intersection and they are being chased by a man with a gun. You see one of the men get shot. The attacker shoots at the other man, and then shoots at you, hitting your car, and wounding you. Now your attacker has another wounded victim on the ground and is pointing his gun at the victim’s head.
You have your Indiana concealed carry permit. You’re armed. You park your car, open the door, and shoot your attacker. The attacker drops his gun and falls to the ground. People are coming out of their cars to help. You put away your gun and you ask them to call 911. EMTs treat your wound, but you stay at the scene and talk to the police.
Your attacker is from 20 miles away. The police said he came here to kill people and chose the two men at random as they worked in a nearby cemetery.
Rob- done right
Tony- The defender didn’t intervene until they knew who the bad guy was. It is dangerous to assume who’s a good guy and who’s a bad guy as a 3rd party. The bad guy was the person shooting at the defender and also aiming at a wounded victim.
Rob- us to do
Tony- We all need to work on our marksmanship fundamentals using either hand and from unusual positions. Including the sitting position.
Rob- How did our defender survive given that his attacker already had his gun out and was shooting people?
Tony- The murderer had turned his attention away from our defender to continue shooting the wounded person on the ground. That distraction allowed the good guy to stop his vehicle, get a solid shooting stance and take precision shots on the bad guy ending the threat immediately.
Rob- When do you tell your students about intervening for a third party?
Tony- Our forth story took place in New Orleans, Louisiana.
Rob- Fourth story- Are you armed in public?
You’re stopped at a convenience store getting coffee at dawn. You hear an argument outside. You look up to see a man waving a machete walk into the store. The store clerk is following along behind him. The man with the knife tells the clerk to leave or he’ll kill him. The attacker goes to the cooler-section and pulls out several cases of beer. The robber threatens the employee again.
You have your Louisiana concealed carry permit. You’re armed. You draw your handgun and point it at the attacker. You tell him to drop the knife. The clerk runs up and grabs the knife from his attacker.
The attacker says he’ll leave if the clerk gives back the machete. The attacker leaves the store with his knife, but leaves his wallet behind. The clerk calls the police. You remain at the scene to give a statement.
The police arrest the robber when he comes back to the store to get his wallet.
TAG- No Shots Fired
Tony- All bad guys are not criminal masterminds.
Rob- Most assailants are on drugs or alcohol.
Tony- Our bad guy was begging for attention by threatening employees outside and inside while brandishing a machete. He showed no attempt at being discreet and he thought that intimidation would carry the day. If you ever took a force on force class this guy was the level one beginner level bad guy scenario.
Rob- What else did our defender do correctly? No shots fired.
Tony- Our defender paid attention, pulled his firearm and issued commands. They were obviously clear enough to make Machete drop his weapon.
Rob- Would you explain the 21 foot rule.
Tony- the Tueller Drill or 21 foot rule was an exercise that Sgt Dennis Tueller of Salt Lake City PD used to determine that an attacker with a knife or other melee weapon could cover 21 feet in 1.5 seconds. A second and a half is also the time it takes a trained person to draw and fire one shot from their holstered handgun.
Rob- Why didn’t our defender shoot first if the attacker was within 21 feet and had his knife out?
Tony- The defender may have had his gun pointed at the bad guy before Mr Machete knew that he brought a knife to a gun fight. Therefore he had time on his side. The defender may have taken cover behind an obstacle in the store that would’ve added more time or distance between himself and the bad guy. El Machete may not be James Bond villain smart but he knew he couldn’t cover the distance he needed to before being shot so he dropped the knife.
Rob- The store clerk had every chance to carry a firearm as our defender did. It was his choice not to be armed. Would our defender have been justified in walking away and letting the clerk walk away?
Rob- that wraps up this episode. Tony, thank you for helping us again. Where can we learn more about you?
Rob- After you look at Tony sign up to train with Tony and subscribe to his podcast, then please leave us a message on the podcast facebook page.
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I’m Rob Morse. We’ll be back next week with more Self-Defense Gun Stories.