Episode 212 with Elizabeth Hautman

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Rob- Introduction-

Welcome to episode 212 of Self-Defense Gun Stories. We’re glad you found us if you’re well trained and also if you’re new to self defense. I’m Rob Morse. We’re joined this week by firearms instructor Elizabeth Hautman.

Elizabeth- Hi, Rob.  I’ve been working and instructing. My phone is always ringing with new students.

Rob- I took my concealed carry renewal class and applied for my license again. This class was worthwhile.

We didn’t receive a rating or a comment on iTunes this week (195/115), but someone left a comment on our webpage. They said they liked the second-person presentation of the stories because, in their words, “It helps get me in the mindset of what would I do?”. Please give us your feedback and let new listeners know what you like.

Elizabeth- We’ll talk about recent examples where gun owners were in a life threatening situation. Were they lucky, or did they have a plan? We give you the links back to the original news article in our show notes. Our first story took place last week in Houston, Texas.

Rob- First story- Are you armed on a date?

This is the age of Covid. You meet a woman on a dating site. You agree to meet in the public area of her apartment complex late a night. You’re walking to her apartment when two men come out of the darkness. One of them has a rifle, and he points the gun at you. They demand your valuables.

You’re armed. You present your concealed firearm and shoot the armed attacker several times. Your gun jams, and you run away. You drive to a nearby gas station and call the police. The police find your attacker, and his accomplice, at the scene. They also find a toy rifle on the ground.

Elizabeth- There is a lot to say here, but we’ll start with a positive note.  

Rob- We’re seeing more stories like this one.  Attacked at night on your way to an online meeting. 

What do you want us to do in a situation like this?

What is the risk when you leave the scene of the crime? 

Elizabeth- Let’s move on. Our second story happened in Johnson City, Tennessee

Rob- Second Story- Are you armed when you visit your wife at work?

Your wife works at a convenience store. You’re visiting her late at night when a man comes into the store. The man has a gun and demands the money from the cashregister. Your wife gives him the money. Then, the robber points his gun at you.

You have your Tennessee concealed carry permit. You’re armed. You shoot your attacker twice until he turns and runs away. You check on your wife, and then call the police.

Police use a dog to track your attacker. The attacker resists arrest and the police dog takes him down. Police arrest your attacker for your robbery, and another robbery at a nearby tobacco store that same night. Your attacker is charged with aggravated robbery and attempted aggravated robbery, three counts of aggravated assault, aggravated kidnapping, two counts of unlawful possession of a weapon by a convicted felon, and resisting arrest. He remains in jail on 151 thousand dollar bail.

Elizabeth- Good job. Our defender was armed. He stopped the threat. When the threat was gone, our defender stopped shooting and didn’t chase the bad guy. Our defender called the police and made a statement. There was probably security video to back up his statement too. 

Rob- Is there anything else you want our defenders to do? 

Elizabeth- I want both of them to be armed, educated, and trained. This was an armed robbery. Our good guy has the right to shoot his wife’s attacker before the bad guy points his gun at him. Because there are other people at risk, the store clerk can shoot the bad guy as soon as she has an opportunity, like when he turns toward her husband.

Rob- It is important to know when you may act and when you shouldn’t. How do your students learn about the laws in their state?

Elizabeth-  Our third story happened in Monroe, Louisiana.

Rob- First this message from the CPRC

Rob- Third story- Do you have a firearm nearby at night?

You’re asleep in your bed when you hear your husband yell. You hear the sounds of a fight and hear your husband shout in pain. You roll out of bed and grab the gun you keep between the mattresses. You move toward the center of the house when you see three men wearing dark hoodies and beating your husband. At least one of them is armed. The armed man hits your husband with his gun, and then he points the gun at you. You shoot your attacker several times. The three intruders run from your home and drive away.

Police arrest one of your attackers at a nearby hospital, and arrest a second man soon after. Your attackers were charged with aggravated burglary, aggravated assault, and possession of a firearm by a convicted felon. They are held in jail on a hundred thousand dollars bail.

Elizabeth- I’m glad she was armed.

You can be killed by being hit in the head with a gun, so she might have saved her husband’s life. As it is, he might need surgery to repair the damage they did. Rob-  

Rob- What would you like us to do in a situation like this one?

Elizabeth- Lock your doors. Go armed when you’re out of bed. Learn when you should defend yourself. You don’t have to be at risk to use lethal force. You can defend innocent people when they face an immediate and unavoidable threat of death or great bodily harm. 

She could have shot the attackers from down the hall, and before they saw her and turned their gun towards her. She is lucky she wasn’t shot.

Rob- How should we store the gun we want to use for self-defense?

Why did the defender have the right to use lethal force in self defense?

Elizabeth- The couple was outnumbered and her attackers were armed. She wouldn’t be expected to retreat while her husband remained at risk. She wouldn’t be expected to go hand to hand since she faced three armed adult men.

Rob- More of that studying you recommended. How would your students get a chance to learn and practice shooting in low light? 

Elizabeth- I noticed that the defenders were able to give a description so that the attacker was arrested at the hospital. I wonder if I could do that well in such a stressful situation.

Our last story took place in Paradise, Pennsylvania.

Rob- Fourth story- Are you armed at home?

You are at home just before dinner time. You see a stranger walk up to your back door and you ask him what he wants. The stranger tells you to call the police because he is afraid a gang will attack him. The stranger isn’t making a lot of sense, but you call the police. You step away from the door and lose sight of the stranger as you talk to 911. That is when you hear glass breaking. The stranger leapt through a window in your kitchen. You’re armed. You draw your firearm and order the intruder to the ground. You stand there and wait the 10 minutes for the police to arrive. You’re 72 years old.

Police say the intruder is from New York City and is high on drugs. Your intruder was charged with criminal trespass, simple assault, and criminal mischief. He was held awaiting $100,000 bail.

Tag- No Shots Fired

Elizabeth- Our defender was armed, and he faced a much younger and stronger man, but our defender was a war veteran and he didn’t see a lethal threat. He used his firearm for defence, and it worked. It kept him safe until the police arrived.

I like it that our defender moved out of arm’s reach of the bad guy. Only about one in thirty attacks end with the defender having to press the trigger. We see the same thing with the police. Most bad guys stop their attack once the policeman has his hand on his gun.

Rob- Do you talk about situations like this with your students?

Elizabeth- Most aggravated assaults are committed by people who are intoxicated.

Exit-

Rob- that wraps up this episode. Elizabeth, thank you for helping us again. Where can we learn more about you?

Elizabeth- I instruct in Colorado Springs at my private range in Black Forest. Contact me at Colorado Boots Firearms Instruction.

Rob- After you look at Elizabeth’s website, then please leave us a message on the podcast facebook page.

Elizabeth- We share this podcast with you for free.
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Rob- This show is part of the Self-defense radio network. Find more pro-freedom podcasts at sdrn.us

I’m Rob Morse.  We’ll be back next week with more Self-Defense Gun Stories.