Episode 215 with David Cole

Rob- Introduction- Welcome to episode 215 of Self-Defense Gun Stories. We’re glad you found us if you’re well trained.. and also if you’re new to self defense. I’m Rob Morse and we’re joined this week by self defense instructor David Cole.

David- Hi, Rob.  I’ve been working and shooting and hunting.

Rob- We received three more ratings on iTunes (202/118). Please go to the iTunes store where you subscribe to podcasts and let new listeners know what you like.

David- We’ll talk about recent examples where gun owners were in a life threatening situation. Were they lucky, or did they have a plan? We give you the links back to the original news article in our show notes. Our first story took place last week in Cincinnati, Ohio

Rob- First story- Are you armed at work as the sun sets?

You work in a small neighborhood market. The after-work rush is in full swing. You look up to see the next customer. He drops a bag on the counter and tells you to hand over the cash or he’ll shoot you. The news report doesn’t say if the robber shows his gun or how you are armed.

The news reports also don’t tell us if you put the cash into the bag before you shoot your attacker. The wounded attacker runs back out the front door of your store. You stay inside and call 911.

The police find your attacker nearby. EMTs take him to the hospital where he died. At first, the police had trouble identifying your attacker. Once they had your attacker’s name, then the police found out that they already had his mugshot.

David- You went through a hurricane. Well, your self-defense tools are your insurance policy that you can defend yourself. You need them the instant you need them. Our defender knew he had a dangerous job and he was armed. He stopped the threat and then he stopped shooting. He called the police and gave a statement.

Rob- You talk about stopping shooting.

David- You want to stop the attack. That isn’t something you do out of anger. You’re not out for revenge. You’re acting for the safety of your customers and yourself.

You don’t want to draw your gun while the bad guy has his gun pointed at you. That is a speed race, and even a tie is a loss for you. Distract them. Give them the entire cash drawer to hold. Move out of the way and then consider drawing your gun.

Movement is important because you’re responsible for what is behind your attacker. A shelf full of snack foods won’t stop a bullet, but the customer in the next aisle might. That is why you want to move until the good guys are out of the way, both in front and behind your attacker.

Rob- That has to be frightening. How could you not be angry?

David- Emotion can be a powerful factor in a fight, which is why we want to plan ahead as much as possible, and why we train. You have a plan for self-defense. Your plan protects you and your customers. Your plan locks the doors after the bad guy runs away. Your plan says to check on the customers and call 911. You get the security video and call your lawyer. You can be mad tonight when you’re done with your plan.

David- Video cameras 

Rob- Anything else?

David- That is enough for now. Our second story happened in Columbus, Ohio

Rob- Second Story- Are you armed as you drive during the day?

You’ve retired, but you’re slowing down. Today you’re delivering meals to sick seniors who can’t leave their homes. It is about 11 in the morning. After making a delivery, you wave to the neighbors you see almost every day. You’re about to get back in your car when two teenagers run up to you. One teen pulls a gun out of his pocket, and the other teen dives into your car and grabs your wallet and your phone.

You have your Ohio concealed carry permit. You’re armed. You shoot your armed attacker and he drops his gun. The second robber runs from the scene, and you let him go. Neighbors come out to look, and you shout for them to call 911..since you don’t have your phone.

EMTs take your 14 year old robber to the hospital with non-life threatening injuries. Police are looking for the other suspect who has your phone and wallet, and the wounded robber won’t name his accomplice. This 14-year-old has a criminal record including theft of a Motor Vehicle and two counts of robbery and kidnapping. All are felonies, and all were committed this year.

You want that wallet back because you’ve had it a long time. You’re 75 years old.

David- This is an interesting one for a few reasons.

David- It was in our local news here in the Cincinnati area, and one story I read stated that the defender “loaded his firearm” before shooting. It makes me wonder if he was carrying with an empty chamber

Rob- What should we do in a situation like this one?

David- Carry in Condition 1…you may not have time or ability to chamber a round. (I really hope that story was in error).

David- Another consideration is the age of the attacker. He was a 14-year old kid…don’t assume your attacker will look like the scary bandit printed on your range targets.

Rob- Should our defender have shot his armed attacker?

David- That’s hard to say without more detail, but the story does indicate that the local prosecutor is not pursuing charges, so it appears that law enforcement considers the shooting justified. The story also tells us there were two attackers involved in the robbery of a 75-year old man, which is absolutely going to be a factor.

I also noticed that the Meals On Wheels parent organization issued a statement saying they do not “encourage” their drivers to carry a weapon. That’s easy enough for them to say from their offices.

Rob- I read that the defender was a retired law enforcement officer.

David- Our third story happened in Baton Rouge, Louisiana

Rob- Third story- Are you armed at home?

You’re at home in the evening. Without warning, two young men open your front door and rush toward you. They have guns in their hands. You have a gun too. You present your concealed firearm and shoot your robbers. Now, both of them run from your home. You call 911.

Your wounded robbers pull over at a nearby gas station and call 911. EMTs declare one of the robbers dead. They transport the second wounded robber to the hospital. Police also arrest the driver since he is wanted for outstanding warrants. Both of the surviving robbers can be charged with murder for the death of their partner durning the commission of a felony. 

What did our defender do correctly?

David- The usual things, but this time he had two bad guys to stop. Three if you count the getaway driver.

Rob- This question sounds silly, but which bad guy needs to get shot first?

David- It’s not silly at all, but it is a difficult question to answer definitively. I think the best answer may be to assess each attacker in terms of the degree of threat they present at that moment…which is the most dangerous to you right now? Understand that may be an extremely rapid assessment. But you may have a moment to consider opportunities to draw your gun unobserved, create a distraction, etc…though most home invasion robberies depend on speed  and look to quickly overwhelm the victim, so most likely it is simply going to be a race.

Rob- You want us to lock our doors, don’t you.

David- And have a motion sensor and chime on your outside light. There are also inexpensive motion detecting chime alarms available which are wireless and run on batteries, so it’s a simple matter just to set the sensor out by your front porch, sidewalk, etc. to alert you when someone is approaching your home.

Rob- What should we say to the police?

David- Our forth story took place in Tuscumbia, Alabama.

Rob- Fourth story- Are you armed at work during the day? 

You’re working behind the counter at a gas station convenience store. It is 10 in the morning when a man comes in wearing a hoodie, dark glasses, a facemask, and gloves. Come on, it is 60 degrees and sunny. The customer pulls his gun out of his sweatshirt and says to give him the money. You ask if he’s joking. He pulls a bag out of his pocket and says to put the money in the bag. You empty the cash drawer. As the robber turns away, you grab your gun from under the counter and shoot your attacker between his back and his right shoulder. Your gun jams, and you duck down behind the counter to fix it. The robber runs to his getaway car. You call the police, show them the security video, and you go back to work.

Police arrest your robber after his driver crashes into another car. The robber is taken to the hospital. Before he was shot by the female clerk, police think the robber was responsible for eight other armed robberies in the last few weeks.

David- 10 am on a weekday should be the safest time of the week, but there isn’t a safe time of the week. Stalled for time. Armed. She filled his hands. She shot him. When the gun jammed, she didn’t stand there as a target.

David- Take care of your firearm so it won’t jam. Move out of the way as you draw.

Rob- Was our defender justified in shooting the armed robber after he turned?

David- That’s really hard to say without full details, but I don’t believe that I personally would have. According to the news story, he had the cash and was heading for the door, and I probably would have let him leave at that point. Still, news stories are notorious for being inaccurate and incomplete, so I also wouldn’t feel comfortable condemning the clerk for shooting. She knows much better what was going on than I do. But if I had her in a class, I’d certainly caution her about the legal risk in shooting a fleeing suspect.

Rob- Last week we talked about two robbers who shot a clerk and customers as they ran away. Earlier, we talked about a robber who shot and killed a customer who was standing outside and about to open the door, and the fleeing robber shot him.

You might have a different decision if the robber dropped his gun and put his hands up.

Exit-  Rob- that wraps up this episode. David, thank you for helping us again. Where can we learn more about you?

David- Look for my written articles at deltabravocharlie.com I wrote about the attack at the Mayfair mall. https://www.deltabravocharlie.com/home/if-only

Rob- After you’ve had too much turkey, then look at David’s articles and leave us a message on the podcast facebook page.

David- We share this podcast with you for free.
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Rob- This show is part of the Self-defense radio network. Find more pro-freedom podcasts at sdrn.us

I’m Rob Morse.  We’ll be back next week with more Self-Defense Gun Stories.

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