Episode 217 with Tony Simon
Rob- Introduction- Welcome to episode 217 of Self-Defense Gun Stories. We’re glad you found us if you’re well trained and also if you’re new to self defense. I’m Rob Morse and we’re joined this week by firearms instructor Tony Simon.
Tony- Hi, Rob. I’ve been working on the diversity shoot.
Rob- No one left a rating or a comment on iTunes this week. (204/120).
Tony- That’s because they don’t like you.
Rob- But they do like you, Tony, so please go to the iTunes store where you subscribe to podcasts and tell new listeners to try this show.
Tony- We’ll talk about recent examples where gun owners were in a life threatening situation. What did they do, and what should we do if we were in their place. We give you links back to the original news article in our show notes.
Our first story took place last week in Albuquerque, New Mexico.
Your family is in the car with you. You stop at your local bank to use the walk-up ATM. The sun is low in the sky as you go back to the car with your cash. That is when a stranger runs up to you. The stranger has a machete in his hands and tells you to give him the cash. He waves the knife at you and you back up.
You have your New Mexico Concealed carry permit. You’re armed. Your attacker comes closer again and you draw your gun. You shoot your attacker one time in the chest. Now your attacker turns away and runs back to his car. You retreat to your car as well. Your wife saw the attack, heard the shot, and called 911. You stay at the scene and give a report to the police.
The police find your attacker dead in his car a short distance away. The police call the bank to get their security camera video. Your attacker has several prior convictions for burglary and drug possession. You are not charged with a crime.
Tony- Our defender was armed. He tried to back out of the situation, then defended himself and his family. He stopped shooting when his attacker turned away and was no longer a threat. He stayed at the scene and talked to the police.
Rob- This is called an aggravated robbery because the attacker used a lethal weapon. Most attackers are intoxicated when they commit their crime. That could mean that this robber was on drugs.
Tony- Addicts are on drugs a lot of the time. Robbery is their night time job to feed their day time habit.
The story wouldn’t talk about this, but put your gun away after the threat is gone. Do it very slowly, deliberately, and carefully, because your hands are shaking and you are almost numb with adrenaline. If you can, drink some water because you’re probably going to have an adrenaline headache. Think of it as an adrenaline hangover or withdrawal.
Rob- What else did you notice about this story.
Tony- The important thing about a self-defense tool is that it is available to use when you need it. If your state allows you to, then please consider getting your concealed carry permit and carrying a loaded gun.
Rob- Was this gun owner in danger?
Tony- Very much. A machete can incapacitate you with one blow. You want to keep something like a car between you and a man with a knife of a club.
Rob- There are so many new gun owners this year. For most of them, they have only loaded their gun at a shooting range and then put their unloaded gun into their range bag. They have never moved with a loaded gun in their hands.
How do they learn to carry a loaded gun on their hip, and how to draw a loaded gun and shoot? How will they learn to live with a gun?
Tony- We have about four centuries of practice with firearms, and we’ve learned a lot. We’re learning more all the time and we don’t do things the way we did them even 20 years ago.
Ignore the Hollywood movies and go take a class. Learn to safely handle your gun. Learn how to carry and how to present your firearm.
This might surprise some people, but you can get your carry permit and not be taught how to draw. Once you’ve taken the class, then practice with an unloaded gun at home. We call it dry practice.
Rob- Was our defender justified in shooting his attacker? The attacker only had a knife.
Tony- The attacker had a machete and wouldn’t stop advancing as the defender retreated. The machete is a lethal weapon. The defender faced an immediate, lethal, and unavoidable threat, so he was justified in using his gun to stop the attack.
Rob- His wife called the police.
Tony- And every word she said is admissible in court. That is why she should take a concealed carry class too.
Rob- Anything else?
Tony- That is enough for now. Our second story happened in Akron, Ohio.
You’re working behind the counter at a cell phone store. It is after dark when another customer comes inside. There are no other customers so you ask how you can help him. The man draws a gun and says to get out of the way. You run to the back room. The robber takes the cash out of one register, and then tries to open the safe that is near the other register.
The news report doesn’t say if you had your gun stored in the back room, or if you carried your gun on your body, but now you’re armed. You shoot your attacker and then run from the store.
You call the police. Police find your attacker still inside the store. EMTs take him to the local hospital for treatment of serious, but not life threatening gunshot injuries. You stay at the scene and give a statement to the police.
Tony- Remember what I said about needing your defensive tools right now.
Rob- Wait a minute. I’ve got the gun back here in a safe. Two turns to the right, one to the left, and.. What were you saying Tony?
Tony- Exactly. If you think the unloaded gun on your back shelf is a defensive tool, then go get it, pretend to load it, then come back to the center of your home to defend your family. The crime is all over by the time you respond.
Rob- Did the store clerk have a right to shoot the armed robber, or should he have simply hidden in the back of the store until the robber left?
Tony- You have the right to defend your life. I would go further and say you have that duty. You don’t have the right to shoot someone in the back as they run down the street with some money unless you can show that you faced a lethal threat in that instant.
I suspect that the robber told the clerk to come open the safe. The clerk decided to shoot the armed robber rather than get closer to him.
Rob- Do you talk to your students about attacks at their work?
Tony- We make time for that so the class fits their needs. Our third story happened in San Antonio, Texas.
Rob- First this message from the Second Amendment Foundation.
You’re at a family gathering on Thanksgiving. You hear the change in the conversation when a divorced husband gets out of his car and walks toward the party. Some EXs are family, but this one isn’t. Someone goes outside to explain the situation. The EX yells that he wants to talk to his wife. Things get heated and you, the ex wife, and her mom all go outside. The ex husband draws a firearm and starts shooting.
You have your Texas concealed carry permit. You’re armed. You shoot the attacker until he drops his gun. His ex wife and her mother are wounded. You and the rest of the family call 911. You and the rest of the family give statements to the police.
The ex-wife is treated at the scene. The mom is treated at the hospital, and the ex-husband is moved to a critical care trauma unit in serious but stable condition.
Tony- I bet that the attacker was drunk or on drugs. People do that during times of emotional stress. Our defender got his permit. He carried his gun. He drank moderately or not at all so he could be an effective defender.
Our defender recognized a threat, and there is more to that than you might expect. No one expects gun shots, but he chose the obvious explanation to what he heard and saw, rather than trying to explain it away.
He acted, and then stopped acting when the threat stopped. He stayed at the scene and called 911. I hope he had first aid training.
Rob- Should we touch an attacker’s gun? Should we give first aid to the attacker?
Tony- Maybe. Fortunately, there were other people there. You might guide them on what to do.
Rob- Does this happen very often? Do family gatherings attract violence?
Tony- Our forth story took place in Redlands, California.
You manage a small office building. You get a phone call that the security alarms tripped in one of your tenant’s offices. The police call you after searching the outside of the building. It is about 5 in the morning when you get an alarm that detects movement in your office. You go to the building and open the door. That is when a stranger rushes you.
You have your California concealed carry permit. You’re armed. You shoot your attacker one time in the chest. You back out of the building and call 911.
The police find your attacker inside. EMTs take him to the hospital. The police discover where the intruder broke into another office in the building and then kicked his way through the drywall to enter your office.
Tony- Yes, there are dozens of counties and millions of people living in California counties where they can get their concealed carry permits. Redlands is in San Bernardino county, and you can get your permit there so long as you don’t have a criminal record.
Our good guy called the police when he heard the first alarm. He went to his office to look into the persistent motion alarm. He was armed. He defended himself. He stopped shooting when the threat stopped. He called the police and he gave a statement.
Rob- Was our defender justified in using a firearm to defend himself?
Rob- Tony, you work with locks and alarms every day. Is it unusual for the police to miss an intruder who is inside a building?
Tony- It happens every day.
Rob- Suppose you did everything correctly, but you had to use your firearm. What should you say to the police when they arrive?
Tony- You are the one who called them. You called the police about the earlier alarm. You came to the building. You were attacked. You called again. Be careful because he might still be in there and attack you. I know this is serious, and I’ll answer every question after I talk to my lawyer.
Rob- Do you have concealed carry insurance to provide a legal defense in court?
Tony- I do. They give you some valuable training about what to say to the police.
Exit- Rob- that wraps up this episode. Tony, thank you for helping us again. Where can we learn more about you?
Rob- Not everyone can be a celebrity like Tony, so after you look at Tony’s websites and at his podcast, then leave us a message on the podcast facebook page.
Tony- We share this podcast with you for free.
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If we don’t meet before then, let us wish you a merry Christmass and a safe and prosperous new year.
Rob- This show is part of the Self-defense radio network. Find more pro-freedom podcasts at sdrn.us Ho ho ho.
I’m Rob Morse. We’ll be back next week with more Self-Defense Gun Stories.