Episode 260 with Tony Simon
Welcome to episode 260 of Self-Defense Gun Stories. We’re glad you found us if you’re well trained.. and also if you are still learning about armed defense. I’m Rob Morse and we’re joined this week by firearms instructor Tony Simon. How have you been, Tony?
Tony- Hi, Rob. I’ve been putting together classes for 2022. I also took some training so I stay up to date and sharp. How about you?
Rob- I’ve been good. A new student is doing well. We also received four new ratings and four new comments on iTunes (is 266 151)
-Luke said he enjoys the show, but wishes it didn’t sound so scripted.
I agree. I have the advantage of being in front of a microphone about 4 times a week. Some of my instructors may only join me once in two months, so I need a format that is comfortable for them. I can try harder to bring them forward in the show.
-Rona said this is the first podcast she’s listened to. She likes that we give examples and then give suggestions. She also likes that we have several instructors on the show. She is an NRA instructor and is involved with both A Girl and a Gun as well as with a chapter of A Well Armed Woman.
Welcome Rona. If we do a great job then maybe you’ll share the podcast with your students.
-HogWyld shares the podcast with his wife and kids.
That is high praise if you’d introduce us to your family.
-Aaron is from the Evolution Security Podcast and he has been listening for years. He appreciates our co-hosts, and likes our incremental approach so that a long term listener is better prepared.
Thank you, sir. Please let us know if there is some way we can serve you and your students.
-Robbie left us a message on the podcast webpage. He liked that one of the defenders dropped his keys to create a distraction as he defended himself.
I like that too.
Tony- Here in the US, we defend ourselves with a firearm thousands of times every day. We look at a few recent examples and see what we can learn. The links back to the original news articles are on our podcast webpage.
Our first story took place last week in Garden Grove, California.
Rob- First story- Are you armed at home during the day?
It is 11 in the morning on a weekday. You hear a crashing sound and the house seems to shake. Then you hear someone walking through the house and heading up the stairs. You’re a gun owner. You grab your gun and walk to the top of the stairs. You shout for the intruder to stop, but he keeps coming. You shoot until he stops, and then you stop shooting. You and your girlfriend call 911 and ask for help. Police are already on the way because your neighbors called to report the sound of gunfire.
Police identify your intruder as your girlfriend’s ex boyfriend. She has a restraining order against him. He broke into your house a week ago and stabbed you. This time, neither you nor your girlfriend are injured. You’re not charged with a crime.
Tony- Locked doors give you time. Time gives you options. The time you have can allow you to implement your defensive plan, if you have one.
The news stories don’t explain how the ex-boyfriend entered this time. This time our defender had a gun. He recognized an immediate threat. The defender was at the top of the stairs so he was in an excellent place to defend everyone upstairs. He shot as the attacker advanced and stopped shooting when the attacker stopped advancing. He called 911 and got the police on the way. He stayed at the scene and gave a statement to the police. There was a restraining order that told the attacker not to contact the ex-girlfriend. The attacker wasn’t supposed to be within 500 feet of the place. But wait, there’s more.
Rob- There sure is. What would you like us to do that isn’t mentioned in the news story?
Tony- This happened in the middle of the day. I want everyone to wear their firearm on their body. Everyone, because the designated defender could be upstairs in the bath while you are downstairs, and that means you have to fight the attacker with your bare hands. I want you to carry on-body because you might be downstairs while you left your gun upstairs next to your bed.
Rob- What else do you see here?
Tony- The restraining order made it easier for the police to figure out what happened, to understand who are the good guys and who are the bad guys. It will cost you nothing to get a restraining order. It will cost you tens of thousands of dollars in legal fees if you are arrested because the police didn’t have proof(like a restraining order) stating the ex-boyfriend wasn’t allowed to be near his ex. And now you need a lawyer after the self-defense shooting. If you don’t have that cash on hand, then please buy self-defense insurance, and take out a restraining order if you can.
You buy insurance for your car and your house. Buy it to defend you in court.
Rob- I shouldn’t have to defend myself in court.
Tony- Maybe, I’m talking about how the system works, not how you wish it worked. You’ll sit in jail until you post bond if you don’t have self defense insurance. You want someone to call, and you don’t want to depend on your buddy to find you a lawyer at midnight.
Rob- Anything else?
Tony- I’d like you to have an outside alarm system that tells you to pay attention because someone is outside. Other than that, let’s go to our next story from Houston, Texas.
Rob- Second Story- Are you armed at home at night?
It is 10 at night when you hear the sound of breaking glass. You see your ex- boyfriend walk into your apartment through a shattered sliding glass door. He chases you. You present your firearm and shoot him three times. Now he turns and runs back outside. You stop shooting. You stay inside and call 911.
Your neighbors report a stranger lying in their yard. Police arrest your ex-boyfriend and Emergency Medical Services take him to the hospital. Officers say he will be arrested and taken to jail when he’s released from the hospital. You are not charged.
Tony- Again, I’m loving that her doors were locked. The attacker picked up a piece of the patio and used that to break the back entry. I think it was a sliding-glass door.
The defender retreated and then shot her attacker when he advanced on her. This was a two story house and the attacker broke through at the ground level. Defending yourself from the top of the stairs is really smart. She stayed inside and called for help, so she let the police find the bad guy.
Rob- You’ve had students who had a problem with a domestic-partner. What do you want them to do in a situation like this one?
Tony- The way these two stories read is that the guy who was attacked at 10 in the morning wasn’t carrying his gun, but the woman who was attacked at 10 at night was carrying. Don’t you people have to get up and go to work in the morning? I want you to carry. I want you to get that protective order, or order of domestic protection, or restraining order. I’d like it if she filled a restraining order. The ex-boyfriend would definitely be charged with violating the restraining order. This news story reads that he may be charged with breaking into the house.
Also get security cameras for inside and outside your house. The cost of these devices are low and their quality is high compared to 10 and 20 years ago. That way you can show the police what happened.
Rob- I know that evidence like the broken door, like the security video, has to be given to the police immediately after the attack so they know who had the video from the time of the attack until it is delivered to a judge in court. When would your students learn about that?
Tony- Students should learn about things like security cameras, high security locks and layered security in our Home Hardening class.
Rob- You had to shoot an attacker in your home. What do we tell the police when they arrive?
Tony- Let’s start with the 911 call.
My name and address is… I’ve had to defend myself against an attack. Send police and emergency medical personnel.
Call your lawyer that is provided by your self defense insurance. Follow their advice.
If you don’t have any insurance or a lawyer, then describe the events in the simplest, most straightforward way possible using a minimum of words. Then tell the police that you’re going to retain an attorney.
Our third story happened Greensboro, North Carolina.
Rob- First this message from Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership.
Rob- Third story- Are you armed at work?
You’re working behind the counter at a smoke shop at 8 in the evening. Three young men come into the store, but one of them has a gun in his hands and he points his gun at you. You step into the back room. You keep your gun back there. The robbers have cleaned out the cash register, and the robber points his gun at you as you look through the doorway. You shoot your armed attacker. Now your robbers run away. You call 911.
Police find one of your robbers outside. It isn’t clear from the news accounts if the robber died at the scene, or later at a hospital. The other two robbers face charges of aggravated robbery and felony murder. The dead robber was 17 years old.
You recognize the three robbers since they were in your store an hour earlier.
Tony- Things that our defender did correctly.
- He had a firearm at his job.
- He was able to see the threat in time to get to his firearm.
- Had the skills to hit the threat
- Stopped shooting when the threat was over
- Called the police
Again, security cameras are inexpensive and should be a part of a business’s security plan.
There should have been a security video.
Rob- You want us to have the gun on us.
Tony- I do. Your safety and security is your responsibility. Not the store owner, store manager or the person closest to the store’s gun kept by the safe in the back room.
I understand having the gun next to the safe in the back room, but I’m not a fan of the plan that says, You come get me and I’ll protect you, because that supposes that the person won’t be injured before you defend them.
Rob- What else do you see here?
Tony-Again, security cameras are inexpensive and should be a part of a business’s security plan.
I know it’s hard to believe but… They could lie to the police about what really happened. It’s not unusual for bad guys to claim to be innocent victims.
I know. Shocking.
Without video evidence you have your version of events and three of them will have another version.
Also, I want you to call your lawyer.
Rob- This defender needed a lawyer?
Tony- Oh, yeah. It’s a defensive firearm use, you want a lawyer to help tell your story so it’s correct from the start without mistakes due to you being nervous, misremembering or being confused.
Without the video you need to be able to tell the facts to the police. Bad guys can say that you were the attacker, that you shot at them as they were running away.
Rob- When do you talk to your students about working through the aftermath of an attack?
Tony- I have hosted classes that cover home defense and reporting to the police. It’s important for an armed defender to get as much education as possible on all aspects of defensive firearms use.
Tony- Our fourth story took place in Lawrence, Indiana.
Rob- Fourth story- Are you armed in public?
You work in a pawn shop. You step out of the shop to run an errand at four in the afternoon. That is when three people approach you. They are armed. They tell you to give them everything you have. You are carrying a concealed firearm. You present your gun and shoot your attackers. They shoot back as they run away. The news report doesn’t mention if you stayed in the parking lot or if you went back inside the building to call 911.
Your robbers crashed their car a short distance away. They left their wounded accomplice in the car. EMS takes your wounded attacker to the hospital. He is 14 years old. Police are looking for his two accomplices.
Tony- You know why these guys attacked someone who was leaving a pawn shop?
Tony- People walk into a pawn shop with valuable articles and they walk out with cash. These thieves wanted the money. That is why pawn shop employees are usually armed at work.
I like that the employee was carrying on-body. How you carry is more important than what you carry. We’d laugh at someone who took a minute to draw from a holster, but we make excuses for ourselves if we need a minute to run and get our gun. Please be realistic about your defense.
Take defensive firearm training
Take a class on situational awareness
Come up with a good defensive plan. I know you have to start from where you are, so do what you can, and then improve that one step at a time. Maybe you can only carry when you’re at work or at home to start.
Our defender recognized a threat and defended himself. If you can, I want you to stay at the scene of the crime and call the police from there. Then I want you to call your lawyer.
Rob- Talk to me about self-defense in a parking lot facing three attackers.
Tony- The reason I suggest learning about situational awareness is the quicker you can see a problem coming the more options you have available. Seeing three people coming at you, one of them armed, allows you to implement the plan, deploy your firearm, move to put distance and hard objects between you and the bad guys and shoot them if necessary.
Rob- We took your advice and we had a plan. We defended ourself and the bad guy ran away. What do we tell the police, and when do we call our lawyer?
Tony- Move to safety as quickly as possible, then call the police. Report the attack and immediately call your lawyer.
You want to be the first to tell your story to authorities. The first person that police speak to is going to be designated as the victim.
Rob- When do your students learn about that?
Tony- They learn these in our Home Hardening class that I teach or Home Defender Handgun Tactics class that I host.
Rob- Your students learned to present their firearm. How often do they need to practice, and how often would you like them to practice their presentation?
Tony- I would like them to dry practice 15 minutes a day for the first month after they take our class. Then once or twice a week after that to maintain the skill.
Rob- Tony, thank you for helping us again. Where can we learn more about you?
Rob- After you subscribe to Tony’s podcast and look at his training schedule, then tell Tony how handsome he looks on the self-defense podcast webpage.
Tony- We share this podcast with you for free.
Please share the podcast with a friend and give us a rating on I-Tunes and Stitcher.
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Rob- This show is part of the Self-defense radio network. Find more pro-freedom podcasts at sdrn.us
I’m Rob Morse. We’ll be back next week with more Self-Defense Gun Stories.
Amanda, Ben, Heather, Dave, Candy, Tony, Robyn, Michael
Apple categories- News commentary, Self-improvement