Episode 265 with David Cole

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Rob- Introduction-

Welcome to episode 265 of Self-Defense Gun Stories. We’re glad you found us if you’re well trained.. and also if you are still learning about armed defense. I’m Rob Morse and we’re joined this week by firearms instructor David Cole. You were injured the last time you were with us. I hope you’re healed.

Dave- Hi, Rob.  Still healing slowly and setting up a new rifle and scope. How about you?

Rob- We received a new rating and and comment on iTunes ( 271×153) ). A listener (BobbyPos) said he found us from another podcast I was on, and he started listening from the beginning. He likes the format of the stories, and he likes the co-hosts.

Thank you, Bobby. I like them too.

On Facebook, John Ashton Randolph said he listens during his workouts. Quote “The content is amazing and the guests are very professional and knowledgeable. I look forward to sharing both the podcast and Facebook page with my students.”

Thank you, John. We grow because our listeners share us with their friends.

Please go to the iTunes store where you subscribe to podcasts and let others know why you listen.

Dave- In the United States, we defend ourselves with a firearm several thousand times a day. Each week we look at recent examples and see what we can learn. The links to the original news articles are on our podcast webpage.

Our first story took place last week in Killeen, Texas.

Rob- First story- Are you armed as you drive during the day?

It is 10 in the morning and you’re driving down a frontage road next to the highway. You’re watching as a car crashes at the intersection right in front of you. Police cars are right behind the crashed car. Some of the police get out of their cars and run toward you. That and the flashing lights stop traffic. A stranger is running away from the police and he has a gun in his hand. You put your hand on your concealed firearm. The stranger runs up to your car, points his gun at you, and shouts for you to get out of your car. You raise your firearm and shoot your attacker several times. He steps back from your car. Police are there in seconds. You drop your gun and put up your hands.

Police roll your attacker over and handcuff him. They call EMS. A few minutes later they ask you to step out of your car and show your identification. You give a brief statement to the police.

Later, you found out that your attacker was a known criminal running from the police. He had outstanding warrants for burglary and armed robbery. Your attacker remains in critical condition.

Dave- At its most basic level, this is defense from a carjacker…but with an extra degree of difficulty. I like that our defender was armed. I love that he was paying attention. He saw the crash happen in front of him and he recognized that was unusual. He decided that it was a threat.

Then, he got ahead of the problem by having his firearm in mind and in hand before an attacker could grab him.

The story doesn’t say if the defender shot through his car window, shot through the open window, or opened the door and then shot his attacker as the defender got out of his car.

With police that close, it is a good idea to drop the gun and put your hands where the police can see them.

Rob- What else do you see?

Dave- You don’t want to present a firearm when the robber already has his gun pointed at you. That means you need to be ahead of the curve, or find a distraction which will allow you to access your gun. Drawing from a seated position in a car is more difficult than standing.

Rob- Do carjackings happen very often?

Dave-  I read the news like you do. We’re seeing more of them. I think they have increased by at least 50 percent.

Rob- Our defender shot the attacker more than once. When do I start shooting and when should I stop?

Dave- When you have to, and not any longer.

Rob- When do your students learn about defense outside the home.

Dave- Using a firearm in defense…inside or outside the home…is normally taught as more advanced training after basic concealed carry. After they learn about firearms safety, marksmanship, presentation, concealed carry, use of cover and concealment, legal use of lethal force. Now we’re ready to talk about applying those building blocks outside the home.

Rob- Anything else you’d like to say about this story?

Dave- That is enough for now. Our second story happened in Kansas City, Missouri.

Rob- Second Story- Are you armed at home in the middle of the day?

It is a little before noon on Saturday. You are standing in your kitchen when you hear a thud from the back door. You look and see a man standing on your back porch. He shouts at you and you shout that this is your home and for him to go away, He slams into the door again and breaks some of the glass. You run to your bedroom and grab your handgun gun. The stranger slams into your back door again. You shoot him. Now he steps away from the door. You call 911. 

Police are already on the way because your neighbors reported a prowler in the area. You put your gun away and wait for the police. They find your intruder in your backyard. Emergency Medical Services take him to the hospital. You give a statement to the police. Your intruder died in the hospital.

Dave-  What she did right. She locked her doors. Thank you! She recognized a problem and ran to get her gun. She stayed inside so the bad guy could not get his hands on her. She defended herself and then she stayed inside and called for help.

Rob- That is a lot to do correctly, but there is even more you’d like your students to do.

Dave- This happened in the middle of the day. You are the treasure and I want to keep you safe. If the bad guy is pounding on your back door, can you grab your gun and your phone and leave out the front door. Can you retreat to your bedroom, lock the bedroom door, and call the police from there?

Rob- It is a gray area to shoot someone who is outside your home.

Dave- It can be. You have to be able to explain why the person outside your home was a lethal, immediate, and unavoidable threat, and that is hard to do. 

Rob- When do your students learn when they should use their gun?

Dave- 

Rob- Why do you think this homeowner shot the man outside her home?

Dave- She might not have considered the many situations when she might need to use her firearm for defense. If she didn’t have a plan, that means she had to make a split second decision. We can’t plan for every eventuality, but we can think through options and walk through them, refine them, and then take our best option. That gives us an outline of what to do, and what to avoid.

Rob- Now we have a plan to make a plan.

Dave- Enough with the planning. Our third story happened Near Modesto, California.

 

Rob- First this message from the Second Amendment Foundation. 

https://www.saf.org/

Rob- Third story- Do you have a gun nearby at night?

You hear someone scratching at your window screen. You’re in bed and it is 4 in the morning. Someone tries to open your window, but your window is locked. You roll out of bed and grab your handgun. The intruder has a gun in his hand and you shoot him. You grab your phone and retreat from your room. You call 911 and ask for the police. You stay inside your home until the police arrive. You put your gun away. The police find your intruder’s firearm. Emergency Medical Services take your intruder to the hospital. You give a brief statement to the police.

Dave- I like that the doors and windows were locked. I like that the defender had his gun nearby at night.

I said it is hard to explain how someone outside your house is a threat? This is a good example where an attacker having a gun in his hands makes him a threat to you while you’re inside your home. Also, since this happened at night it is harder to run out the front door if you can’t see who is out there.

Rob- What would you like us to do?

Dave- I’d like you to turn on the lights in your room and move into the dark hallway outside your bedroom. That way you can see the bad guy but he can’t see you. I want you to call 911 as soon as you can.

Since you’ve given me a wish list, I want hurricane film on your windows. 

Rob- When do you talk with your students about stories like this one?

Dave- The NRA has a defense in the home class.

Dave- Our fourth story took place in Rock Island, Illinois.

Rob- Fourth story- Are you armed at work?

You’re working behind the counter at a smoke shop and corner store. It is early in the evening when three men run inside. They are wearing hoodies, but everyone wears hoodies. They are wearing masks, but lots of your customers wear masks. They point a gun at you, and that gets your attention. You’re armed. You are carrying concealed. The armed robber asks if you have kids and want to go home to see them. You open the cash register and hand him the evening’s receipts. The three robbers are leaving when you see them point their gun at a customer who is entering the store. You present your firearm and shoot the armed robber. All three robbers run out the door and drive away.

Your two co-workers are shaken, but not injured. You call 911. You give a statement to the police. You show the officers security video of the robbery. They find your injured robbers nearby. Two of them are taken to the hospital. The injured robbers had a history of armed robbery. One was out on parole. One died in the hospital. Police are looking for the third robber.

You called your boss and quit your job.

Dave- Our defender was armed. It sounds like he was carrying a personal firearm on his body. He recognized a threat and recognized he would need time to defend himself. He didn’t have that time, so he waited. I’ve heard it called a tactical pause, waiting for your turn, or tactical patience.

Rob- What else would you like us to do?

Dave- I’d like it if all of you were armed and you’d walked through a security plan. Maybe you would do exactly what this person did, but maybe not. Maybe you’d dive under the counter so you don’t get shot as soon as the robber turns away. While you’re down there, get your gun in your hands and have your co-workers crawl to the back room.

Rob- What else do you notice about this story?

Dave- Let’s look at this robbery moment by moment. You don’t want to draw on a drawn gun because you don’t want to be shot. You give the robber the money. Suppose the robbers turn around and walk toward the door. They might attack you again, but it is hard to call them an immediate threat. Now he points his gun at another customer who is coming in the door. That is a lethal threat to innocent parties so again you’re justified in shooting. You don’t have to shoot, but you can. 

Rob- This changes each second.

Dave- It does. While you have time, think about where your bullets will stop. What is behind or beyond your attacker? You don’t want to be the guy who shoots the innocent customer who is walking across your parking lot.

Dave- I remember when I started shooting competitively. I had a reasonably fast draw and good first shot accuracy. The more I studied self-defense the less important that became. I want enough time to shoot and disable the attacker before he can shoot me. It was good to know how much time I needed, but more important to recognize when I had enough time to act. Being crouched down behind a counter so I don’t get shot is a great idea. Use it.

Rob- The defender quit his job.

Dave- He said his life was threatened, and then he was afraid he’d be wiped out if he had to defend himself legally. I want you to have legal insurance if you plan to use a firearm for self-defense.

Rob- I see what you did there. You didn’t say if you carry concealed.

Dave- Right. Remember the story where the homeowners shot an intruder outside their home? They need a lawyer too.

Exit-

Rob- That wraps up this episode. Mister David Cole, thank you for helping us again. Where can we learn more about you?

David- Look for my written articles at deltabravocharlie.com

Rob- I noticed that your last article was called “Shooting to wound”.

Dave- Yes. It’s a popular theme in TV and movies, but not so great in real life.

Rob- After you look at Dave articles, then leave a comment for him on the podcast episode webpage.

Dave- We share this podcast with you for free.
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Rob- This show is part of the Self-defense radio network. Find more pro-freedom podcasts at sdrn.us

I’m Rob Morse.  We’ll be back next week with more Self-Defense Gun Stories.

~_~_

 

Amanda, Ben, Heather, Dave, Candy, Tony, Robyn, Michael

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