Episode 278 with Tony Simon
Rob- Welcome to episode 278 of Self-Defense Gun Stories. We’re glad you found us if you’re well trained.. and if you are still learning about armed defense. I’m Rob Morse and we’re joined this week by firearms instructor Tony Simon. How have you been, Tony?
Tony- Hi, Rob. I’ve been traveling and teaching. (and…)
How about you?
Rob- We have not received a new rating or comment on iTunes (161,284) for the last two weeks.
Pastor Mel read an article on the USCCA website and shared it with us. The story reads-
Morton Grove, Illinois passed its infamous handgun ban. I was sitting in a tavern in neighboring Skokie. The bar was owned by a retired Marine Gunnery Sergeant. It was in the middle of the afternoon when a young man walked in. The other customer looked around, pulled out a butcher knife and demanded that the owner empty the cash register. The bar owner presented a .45 and said, “Drop the knife or I drop you!”
I called 9-11. The police took the offender into custody. The robber asked the officer, “Why aren’t you arresting him? I thought they outlawed handguns in this town!” The cop said, “This is Skokie, not Morton Grove.”
That incident gave me proof that such firearms bans should never be passed!
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Tony- Here in the US, we defend ourselves with a firearm thousands of times a day. We look at a few recent examples to see what we can learn. The links back to the original news articles are on our podcast webpage.
Our first story took place last week in Tuscaloosa, Alabama.
Rob- First Story- Are you armed as you drive?
You and your girlfriend are driving down the street. It is the middle of the afternoon when you pull into a small strip mall to buy something. A strange woman pulls her car into the parking lot near you and starts shouting at you. She waves a gun around and then points her gun at you.
You’re armed. You present your firearm and shoot your attacker through the open driver’s side window of your car. Your attacker drives away. Seconds later, a police officer runs up and stops you. You’re arrested for shooting at another driver. You tell the officer what happened. Your girlfriend gives her testimony too. The officer checks the security video from the nearby stores.
Your shots missed your attacker but hit her car. Your attacker’s car is identified in the security video. She is arrested for menacing with a firearm and held on a thousand dollars bond. Your attacker says you cut her off in traffic. The police officer was investigating a crime scene in another part of the parking lot when he turned to see you shoot at your attacker.
You are not charged with a crime.
Tony- Remember the television show “Candid Camera”? It’s been remade under different names but the principle is there are cameras in public places focused on you and the show staff and producers play a prank on you to get your reaction. That’s what today’s society is doing.
You are on camera much more than you are aware of and as an armed good guy you must act accordingly.
I like that he stopped shooting when the threat ended and the attacker drove away. I like that the defender and his girlfriend stayed at the scene and gave a statement.
Rob- Are there other things you tell your students to do in a similar situation?
Tony- If you get into an argument there will be a gun involved because you brought it. That is why I want you to walk away from any confrontation and be a courteous driver, particularly when you’re armed.
I want your girlfriend to be armed and I want you to have a trauma kit in your car.
Rob- Why do you mention a trauma kit?
Tony- Lots of injuries are survivable if they are treated in time. You or your girlfriend could get a minor wound on your arm or leg and still suffer severe organ damage or death if you don’t stop the bleeding in a few minutes. Have the trauma tools like a wound pack and a tourniquet. We’re much more likely to use our first aid equipment than to use our firearm in self-defense.
Rob- Do you talk to your students about that?
Tony- I do. We are lifesavers. We stop the threat to save lives and we treat the injured to save lives. Why not be an asset to your community and be medically trained and equipped to save lives?
Winning the fight but you or a family member dying from being wounded is not a win. Learn emergency first aid and equip yourself with a good kit.
Rob- Is road rage like this very common?
Tony- I read about it, and it seems we’re seeing more of it as people are stressed during the last few years. Social media shares stories that are local or regional stories and that might explain why we see it more but it may not be happening more.
Rob- Is there more you want to add, or should we go to the next story?
Tony- That is enough for now. Our second story happened in Webster, Texas.
Rob- Second Story- Are you armed at home?
You are at home with your children and other adults. It is 9 in the evening on a weeknight. Your doors and windows are locked. A stranger smashes his way through your front door. You own a gun. The news reports don’t tell us if you were carrying or if you had to go grab your gun. You shoot the intruder one time. He stops so you stop shooting. You and the other adults in the house call 911. You check on your children.
Police arrive and you put your gun away. Emergency medical personnel say your attacker is dead. You give a brief statement to the police. So do the other adults.
You are not charged with a crime.
Tony- I like that she was a gun owner. I love that she had her doors and windows locked. Our defender reacted to the breakin by getting her defensive tools. That tells me she had a plan. She stopped the threat and then checked on the people under her care. She got on the phone and asked for help.
Rob- What would you like us to do if we were there?
Tony- I want us to have our guns on our body. It is easy to imagine that we are at the opposite end of the house from our guns, so we have to right our way past our attacker, go to the other end of the house, get our defensive tools, and then run back. All that time our guests and family are at the mercy of a mad man.
Rob- If I have guests living with me, should they be armed?
Tony- Yes they should. They should be able to take care of themselves and to protect others.
Rob- Permits and all?
Tony- Permits and all. Adulting isn’t hard. Go do it.
Rob- We are seeing more home breakings because the economy is bad and more of us are at home.
Tony- Right. That turns a burglary into a robbery where the intruder confronts the homeowner. Please be prepared. Our third story happened in Chicago, Illinois.
Rob- There are gun owners in Chicago?
Tony- Oh Yes there are!
Rob- First this message from Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership.
Rob- Third story- Are you armed around your home?
You are working in your garage on a weekday afternoon. A strange man walks in and puts a large knife in your face. He says something but your attention is focused on the knife pointed at you. You own a gun. You’re carrying concealed. You present your firearm and shoot your attacker. He drops the knife. You back up and call 911. You stay near your garage and wait for the police. You holster your gun and give the police a statement.
Emergency medical services declare your attacker dead at the scene. You are not charged with a crime.
Tony- I’m sure our good guy had his firearm I D card but I do wonder if he had his carry permit. If he didn’t, I’ll bet that he is in the process of getting one now that he has been threatened by a stranger who walked into his garage out of a back alleyway.
Rob- Our friend Rick Ector was robbed as he stepped outside and carried the trash out past his garage. Rick got his permit, and later became an NRA training counselor.
Tony- I’m glad that our defender realized that a knife is a deadly weapon. It’s important to shoot your attacker until they stop attacking you or they are incapacitated. Do this as quickly as possible.
In this case the defender’s first shot was an incapacitating head wound on his attacker. That tells me the defender had a plan.
Rob- When do you talk to your students about carrying on their property?
Tony- We talk about that during our personal defense classes. You have to know the laws in your state. First, take a carry class because the instructor will go over local laws. In many states you can carry in your home, at work, and on our property while you wait for your carry license.
Rob- Do some of your students have trouble carrying a loaded gun on their body at first?
Tony- Yes. Many less experienced people are uncomfortable carrying with a round loaded in the chamber. That’s why it’s important to dry fire, take training classes and practice regularly. You have to learn to trust yourself with your loaded firearm. That happens with experience.
A gun with a empty chamber, in a defensive encounter could get you or your loved ones hurt or worse.
Rob- Some of our advice could have come from my grandfather, but what we teach people to do with a firearm and the way we teach it changes every year. What are some of the changes you’ve seen in the last few years?
Tony- Oh yes. We’ve learned a lot. We learned that an 8 hour course doesn’t teach you much more than a 2 hour class because we can only learn so much at one time. As instructors, we need to spread the material out over a number of days or weeks. Think of how we learn piano or judo and apply that to armed defense.
We also don’t teach people to handle a firearm the way we used to. We’re teaching people to hold a compact 9mm in the isosceles grip rather than using the Chapman stance to manage a 44 revolver. We emphasize the use of movement and cover rather than standing still and shooting at a bullseye target for score. Everything has changed.
Rob- Where are we going for our last story?
Tony- Our fourth story took place in Charleston, West Virginia.
Rob- Fourth story- Are you armed in public?
You are attending an outdoor party at an apartment complex. Some of the teenagers just graduated and some of them were having a birthday party. About 40 people are here. It is after dark when someone drives quickly through the parking lot. People shout for him to slow down. The driver leaves. He returns a while later and parks. A minute later you hear shots and see a muzzle flash from the back of the car. People run for cover.
You own a gun. You have your West Virginia carry permit in your purse and you’re carrying your firearm concealed tonight. You look to make sure no one is in the way. You present your handgun. You put several shots into the window where the attacker was shooting. You stop shooting because the attacker has stopped shooting. People are running for cover and that seems like a good idea if the attacker starts shooting again.
You holster your gun and stay at the scene. The police approach the attackers car. Emergency medical services declares the attacker dead at the scene. You move forward and give the police a statement. They ask to see your ID and for you to stay there while they talk to other witnesses.
After a while, the police return your ID and verify your contact information. You’re free to go. The chief of detectives says you may have prevented a mass murder. The amazing news is that no one except the attacker was injured.
Tony- This woman was ordinary when she got up that morning. She brought her gun along with her for no particular reason other than that is what she does every day. She was simply being a responsible adult in her community. She probably thought that someday she might have to defend herself, but that would probably never happen. And then she stopped a crazy man who would have killed a bunch of kids at a party.
Rob- I know that most of the people who commit assault are intoxicated. I bet this attacker was either drunk or high.
Tony- Most repeat criminals have drug problems. I also bet the defender was sober. We don’t drink and carry.
Rob- Why is that?
Tony- Let’s put our stories we talked about into a new combination. Suppose you are in this situation and the party is at your home. Like this woman, you do everything right. After you defend yourself you will be subject to a medical investigation to see if you were intoxicated or high, the same way a commercial driver has to give a specimen after an accident involving his truck even if the other driver clearly caused the accident. If anyone at your party was injured, then the police will ask if your use of drugs or alcohol contributed in any way to their injuries. You’ll probably lose your license to carry.
Rob- That is an expensive drink.
Tony- Be the designated driver and defender, or put your firearm away.
Rob- When do your students learn about that?
Tony- In our basic class. Living in a anti-gun state like New Jersey we talk about maintaining your “good guy” status all of the time. It’s important to be seen as a good person because the local police, media and even our governor will attempt to make an armed good guy look bad.
Rob- That wraps up this episode. Tony, thank you for helping us again. Where can we learn more about you?
Tony- Find me at Diversityshoot.com I’m also on Instagram and facebook at Simon Says Train
and at The 2nd is For Everyone podcast.
Rob- After you look at Tony podcasts and his classes, then leave Tony a message on the podcast episode webpage.
Tony- We share this podcast with you for free.
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Rob- This show is part of the Self-defense radio network. Find more pro-freedom podcasts at sdrn.us
I’m Rob Morse. We’ll be back next week with more Self-Defense Gun Stories.