Episode 130 with Staff

Do gun owners defend themselves and not pull the trigger? Here are three examples of self-defense with no shots fired. (27 minute audio)

Rob- Introduction- I’m glad you found us and welcome to episode 130 of Self-Defense Gun Stories.

This podcast is for people who are curious about a firearm for self-defense, and for those who already have a gun of your own.. I’m your host, Rob Morse. Because of our schedules, this is a review episode. I search for stories where the defender did not shoot their gun. Too often those events don’t make the news. I’ve collected three of them for this episode.

Our first story took place in October 2018, and Jeff Street was our instructor.

Rob- First story-  Are you armed as you have a yard sale at your parents house?  

Your mom and dad are having a yard sale, and you said you’d stick around to help. Your mom saw someone stuffing clothing into her handbag. Your mom and dad asked her to stop that. Instead of returning the items, the stranger sprayed you mom and dad with pepper spray, and tried to stab your dad with a knife. You stepped inside and got the family shotgun. You pointed the shotgun at the attacker and told her to leave.

She saw the gun and ran.  You called police. The police said the young woman was lucky she was not shot and killed.

Jeff- 1st let’s look at avoidance.  We try to keep the pool of people who have been on our property or inside our home to a minimum.  In our neighborhood the nearby county park lets you rent a space once a month for a community yard sale.  They had no clue who would show up to their property.

This crazy woman looked normal in her mugshot photo.

I like this story because it’s the most likely defensive gun use scenario in that no shots were fired.  The scarry shotgun got the job done. You still need to call 911 as soon as possible so law enforcement can hear your side of the story 1st. This type of Defensive gun use rarely makes the news.

Of course we must add POGO pants on gun on.

Sounds like she had mental health issues.

The time while you went inside to get a gun could have cost your parents their lives.

Have a good plan. “We’ll get our gun.” might not work if it is hundreds of feet away while you’re out at your mailbox. You only have the tools that are within reach.

Jeff- Having a gun can stop the confrontation from escalating, so it would have been better if the family was armed with firearms on their bodies.

Rob- Do you talk to your students about what to do if someone in your family is attacked?

Rob- This took place at a yard sale. In your shooting classes, do you include targets that you don’t want to shoot?

Rob- What did our defender do correctly?

Jeff- Good restraint that the son tried verbal commands and did not shoot when he saw that the verbal commands worked. Good restrain in not following the attacker.

Rob- I’m imagining that someone tried to stab my dad. I can’t holster a shotgun, so I have to go back inside and put it away. I have the same problem with a handgun if I don’t have a holster. What do I do with the gun when I need two hands.

Next question is, can I stop the bleeding?

Our second story took place in July 2018.  Robyn Street was our instructor for that episode.

Rob- second story Are you armed at home?

It is well after dark when you hear someone knocking on your front door. You check your doorbell camera and don’t recognize the woman standing on your porch. The stranger says her friend lives there. The strange woman is obviously confused, and she also sounds increasingly angry as she demands to be let in. You call police. The strange woman rips the screen door off your entryway and the screens off your windows. Your doors and windows are locked. The intruder throws herself an your door over and over, then starts banging on your windows.

You tell her you have a gun and to go away. Police arrive a moment later and arrest her. The intruder is a 30-years-old and she was drunk. She faces charges with vandalism.

Robyn- The homeowner, a retired police officer, had a gun and was mentally prepared to use it to defend herself.  This was something that our homeowner had already envisioned as a possibility. She had done a good job of hardening her home.  The doors and windows were locked and secure, camera was installed and operating, phone was charged and in hand, gun was available and ready to use.  Hooray.

Robyn – I love the fact that she had installed a doorbell camera.  She could identify the person at the door without compromising her security..  I am not sure if the camera had a speaker but regardless she also issued clear verbal commands to leave.

Robyn – She did so many things right.  She called the police and got them on the way. A further benefit to calling 911 is that they can give you updates on the position of help on the way, you can keep them updated on the location of the threat and on your location.  Finally, it is recorded in case any legal action is required.

Robyn- She was frightened..and she is a retired police officer.  She did a great job of analyzing the threat as it was unfolding. I think it is important for us to mention how upset she was sharing how  close she was to shooting the woman. Perhaps she had drawn the red line at crossing the threshold of the house. She was prepared and stayed in control.  She had police on the way but they were not there yet. She was her own first responder. If we find ourselves in a similar situation this would give us a good mental map to follow.

Robyn- No shots fired.  I wish that every self defense scenario was like this one.  The preparations were sufficient to keep her potential attacker away.  Good job! Our second story happened North of Daytona Beach.

Rob- Our third story was with Amanda Suffecool as our instructor and it took place in October of 2017.

Rob- third story-  ARE YOU ARMED AS YOU RUN ON A JOGGING TRAIL BEFORE SUNRISE?

You’re running on a local trail before dawn. You hear a woman scream. You slow down and look to see where the screams came from. A man is holding a woman on the ground and she’s fighting him. You grab your flashlight and a gun from your fanny pack. You shine the light on the couple. The man is sitting on top of the woman, and pressing his hand over her mouth. You see her struggle.

You point your gun at the attacker and tell him to get away from the women. He does, but he runs away with her shoes and her shorts. You let him go.

Police report that the woman was attacked from behind and then dragged off the running trail. The victim identified her rapists as a homeless young man who has been previously charged with felony assault and eight misdemeanors including two charges of indecent exposure.  All these charges were filed within the last two years.

Amanda- She fought, and her screams brought help.  A Concealed carry does not make us an auxiliary police officer – yet at the same time we need to do what we can.

Amanda- the life you save may not be your own.   Preparedness and practice are critical when you are called to make instant judgments when yous and someone else’s life is on the line.

Amanda- Don’t wear earplugs when you run in strange places.  Or music, or…..

Amanda- Bring your own gun rather than rely on others.

Rob- We often tell students to avoid other people’s fights. She did make the choice to run in the dark without any tools of self-defense.

Amanda- We live in a society where selfishness abounds.   There is a line where it’s not your fight – but could you live with yourself if you just ran on.   In this case – No shots fired. This is a win on so many levels.

Rob- That wraps up this episode. Let us know what you think and leave us a message on the podcast facebook page. Please share the podcast with a friend and give us a rating on I-Tunes and Stitcher.  We’re also available on Google Play Music and Spotify. This podcast is part of the Self-defense radio network at sdrn.us

I’m Rob Morse.  We’ll be back in a few weeks with more Self-Defense Gun Stories.

Episode 129 with Ben Branam

What should you if you or your family were attacked at home or at work? Rob and Ben analyze four new examples of armed defense.

Rob- Introduction- I’m glad you found us, and welcome to episode 129 of Self-Defense Gun Stories.

This podcast is for people who might be curious about a firearm and for those who already own one for self-defense. I’m your host, Rob Morse. We’re joined this week by self defense instructor Ben Branam.

Ben- Hi, Rob.  I’ve been working and shooting and teaching..and driving a lot.

Rob- Ben, how do you listen to the show?

Ben– I listen to it on my  phone as I drive.

Rob- That is how most people listen. Please put us in your pocket every week, and give us rating on I-Tunes and Stitcher. Since iTunes and Stitcher lost our show, please go to their sites and give us a rating.

Ben, please tell our new listeners what to expect.

Ben- We study several examples where gun owners survived a life threatening situation. Were these defenders lucky, or did they have a plan? What should we do if we were in their place? Our first story took place last week in the Bronx borough of New York City.

Rob- First story-  Are you armed in your small grocery at closing time?  

It is 10:30 at night. The flow of customers is finally slowing down. You’re taking care of one customer after another and now you get a chance to clean up. A stranger comes in and says, “Give me your money.” You’re one of the few people in New York who have a permit to have a gun at home and at work. You are armed in your store tonight. You back away from the cash register, but the robber jumps up on the counter right in front of you.

With the robber towering over you, you draw your gun and fire. The robber stops advancing, so you stop firing. You move to the back room and call police.

Rob- Was this a situation that demanded self-defense including lethal force?

Ben- Position of advantage.

Rob- What did our defender do correctly?

Ben- Create distance. Stop shooting. Call police.

Rob- What would you tell your students to do if they were in this situation?

Ben- It wasn’t clear if the store owner had is gun in a holster on his body. You might not have time to get it unless it is with you.  Having your gun in your holster on your body also gives you a safe place to put your gun after you use it. I say that because after you’ve shot someone, you don’t want to run through your store with a gun in your hand.

Rob- What should you do after you’ve defended yourself?

Ben- Honor the witnesses.

“Stay down. Is anyone hurt? Please stay where you are so you’re not attacked.”

You don’t know if there is another robber waiting outside. You don’t know if this robber had another weapon. Look around and see if anyone else is hurt.

“I’m calling the police. Does anyone need immediate medical care? Check to see if someone in your aisle is hurt.”

This article didn’t include a video. An in-store video surveillance system can save you thousands of dollars in legal fees. You might end up in court even if you did everything exactly right. The video system can keep you from being arrested in the first place.

Have a lawyer and call them to make a formal statement to the police.

Rob- Do we see robberies very often?

Ben-
Rob- Anything else?

Ben- That is enough for now. Our second story happened last week in Tulsa, Oklahoma.

Rob- Second Story-  Are you armed when you have out of town guests staying with you overnight?   

Your house is full. You have old friends who are staying with you to avoid some storms. Your daughter is also visiting you. Your daughter’s ex-boyfriend came over, but she asked him to leave. Unfortunately, the ex-boyfriend came back at about 5 in the evening. He tries to get in the front door, but that is locked. He tries to get in the back door, but that door is locked too. He breaks into the garage, and then breaks through your door to the garage. You shout for him to leave, but he advances toward you. You shoot him when he advances toward your family and guests.

Ben- It doesn’t say, but I’ll bet that the mother and daughter were on the phone to the police before the ex-boyfriend broke the garage door and charged the homeowner. That is a good plan because it means that you wanted the police there and establishes you as the good guy asking for help.

The situation would have been entirely different if you’d gone outside to hunt this ex-boyfriend. That is not self-defense.

Rob- Was the homeowner legally justified in using a firearm?

Ben- Castle doctrine in Oklahoma

Oklahoma statute says you have grounds for self-defense if your attacker unlawfully broke into your home, your car, or your business.

Also, there are five of you, so you may not be able to safely retreat without leaving someone behind.

Rob- So I can shoot someone who breaks into my home?

Ben- Intrusion isn’t enough of a reason to shoot. You need to be at risk of an attack. If a young couple’s car breaks down, and they break into your garage to get out of a storm, you don’t have a hunting permit to shoot them as their hands are raised. We have a name for people who do that. They are called murderers and they go to prison.

Rob- What would you tell your students to do if they were in this situation?

Ben- The attacker was probably on drugs. Retreat if you can. Defend yourself if you must. Practice with your family so you all know what to do.

Rob- What could that family plan look like?

Ben- There are several task that you want to do at the same time.

-Who has armed defense?

-Who calls the police?

-Who takes care of the children or guests as the situation develops?

-Do you have solid doors on the room where you want to hide?

You have a very solid case if the crazy intruder is still there with a bruised shoulder as he is trying to break your solid door when the police walk in. I mean it that you don’t want to shoot people. Gunshots are messy, and a solid door and good locks are way cheaper than having to repaint your house because you shot someone in your living room.

Rob- I’ve heard you talk about a solid core bedroom door before.

Ben- Right. Little Ben Branam has a safespace.

In this case, I wish this homeowner had safety film on the glass near the door to his garage. That would have bought this family more time to retreat and more time for the police to arrive. I put the link in the show notes if you want to buy that film.

Rob- Are break ins like this fairly common?

Ben- They happen everywhere.

Rob- Is there more, or should we go on?
Ben- Let’s go on. Our third story happened last week in Taft, California.

Rob- First this message from the Crime Prevention Research Center.

 

Please support the Crime Prevention Research Center at
http://crimeresearch.org/

Rob- Third story- Are you armed at home while your kids are asleep?

 Your children wake you up Sunday morning. They want to use your laptop, but they can’t find it. You tell them it is on the table, but the kids say it isn’t there. You get out of bed and start to look for the missing laptop. You know you used it last night. Someone has also dumped out your purse and gone through it. That is when you hear your 7 year old daughter scream. You run to her and see her running back inside the house from the garage. There is a stranger in your garage.

 You put all the kids into the back room. Then you get your gun. This is the gun you bought only two weeks ago. You open the door to the garage and see the intruder in the corner. You tell the intruder that you’ll shoot him if he comes any closer.

 Then you call the police. The police arrest the intruder a few minutes later.

 Ben- Well that is an ugly way to start a Sunday morning. Holding a gun and making a phone call is really hard to do.

Rob- What did our mama bear do correctly?

Ben- She sent the kids to the back room, and that was perfect. It sounds like she had a plan, and she gets a gold star for that. She also had a gun, so she gets a second gold star. She had a video surveillance system, but she only gets partial credit for that one.

Rob- Why does she only get partial credit?

Ben- There were no signs of a breakin, so she probably left the garage door unlocked. Lock your doors.

It turn out that mama bear had a surveillance system, and it captured the breakin. I bet she also had an alarm system..and she forgot to turn it on.

Turn on the alarms.

 Rob- What else did you notice.

Ben- You have kids in the home. That means your gun has to be in a rapid access safe because it has to be securely locked away from your children.

Rob- Ben, do you have a quick access safe for you AND one for your wife?

Ben- Not yet, but I’m working on it.

Rob- Talk about your security plan with the whole family. Who will move the kids. Who will call the police. Who will protect the family. Don’t hunt the bad guys over a laptop.

Rob- Why do you say not to look for the criminal. It turned out reasonably well this time.

Ben- The robber stole a laptop and bananas, and he was in the garage for a couple of hours. I think he was on drugs.

 When we look at the patterns of crime, there are usually several robbers. If they have guns, and more of them do all the time, then don’t get into a gunfight that you can avoid. Let the police do that because they wear body armor and , and dogs, and friends carrying shotguns.

 Rob- Anything else before we go to the next story?
Ben- A final gold star to this momma bear for not shooting the intruder in her garage. She was in Taft, California. If you point a gun at an intruder in your garage in San Francisco, then you might be arrested for aggravated assault. Remember the rules, and don’t put your finger on the trigger until you’re ready to shoot.

Rob- Good point. You’re going to be pretty nervous and you could fire by accident.

Ben- Our forth story was in Clarksville, Indiana.

 Rob- Fourth story- Are you armed when you go outside to investigate two women screaming for help?

 You’re getting ready for bed. You hear screams from outside your apartment. The voices sound familiar, so you go outside to see what is going on. A man is beating up your neighbor and your neighbor’s 9 year old daughter. You’re armed. You step closer and shout for the attacker to stop. He looks at you and he sees your gun pointed at him. You say you’ll shoot him if he attacks you. You tell him to sit down on the curb. The woman and her daughter move away from their attacker.

 The attacker gets up off the curb and comes toward you. You yell for him to stop and you take a step back. You shoot him as he closes the distance. Now he stops.

 You step back and call police and EMTs.

 Police take both the woman and her daughter to the hospital for treatment of their injuries. The attacker was declared dead at the scene.

 Ben- Are you going to get involved if you hear screams outside? It isn’t your duty to intervene. This woman could have had a gun of her own and protected herself, but she chose not to.

Rob- What about her daughter?

Ben- Good question, but why did this mother leave herself AND her daughter unprotected?

You have to think about this now. Otherwise you’ll be thinking about it for minutes while your neighbor and her young daughter are being beaten.

Rob- So you want us to make those decisions ahead of time?

Ben- As much as you can. This is a great example of why you need your tools with you. Suppose you run out to the street and shout for the guy to stop. He doesn’t stop, so then have to run back inside and open your gun safe? That isn’t a plan.

Rob- Is this a gun problem in the first place?

Ben- This attack was a lethal threat to the child. You could tackle the attacker. I weigh 280 pounds and I can lift 350. If you run up and you’re a 150 pound woman and the guy is my size beating a 9 year old girl, then this is definitely an immediate and unavoidable life threatening situation.

Rob- What happens next?

Ben- The beauty of having a holster is it gives you a place to put your gun once you’ve used it.

Call the police. Stay there if you are safe. Call your attorney. Give a very brief statement. Your attorney will give your full statement the next day.

Exit- Rob- You always give me a lot to think about. that wraps up this episode and thank you for helping us again. Where can we learn more about you?

Ben- Look for me at Modern Self Protection.com.  I live in San Antonio, and most of my classes are in central Texas.  I teach armed self-defense and church security. Listeners can see my class schedule at my website, and they can also listen to my weekly podcast Modern Self-Protection.

Ben- We share this podcast with you for free.  All we ask is that you share the podcast with a friend.  We’re also available on Google Play Music and Spotify.

Rob- Apple lost this podcast for a week, so we’re starting over. Please give us a rating on I-Tunes and Stitcher to let people know why they should listen.

Ben- This podcast, just like mine, is part of the Self-defense radio network at sdrn.us

Rob- I’m Rob Morse.  We’ll be back in a few weeks with more Self-Defense Gun Stories.

Episode 128 with Amanda Suffecool

Are you safe at home? What should you if you or your family is attacked? Rob and Amanda analyze four new examples of armed defense. (27 minutes)

Rob- Introduction- I’m glad you found us and welcome to episode 128 of Self-Defense Gun Stories.

This podcast is for people who are curious about a firearm for self-defense, and for those who already own one. I’m your host, Rob Morse. We’re joined this week by self defense instructor Amanda Suffecool.

Amanda- Hi, Rob.  I’ve been working and shooting- just came back from Davenport Iowa where I got to shoot a fully automatic suppressed MP5..  that was fun and Chicago where I produced and modeled in a concealed carry fashion

Rob- Amanda, how do you listen to the show?

Amanda- I listen to it a couple of ways.   It’s on the . Self Defense Radio Network at SDRN.us and now it part of Self Defense Monday ( along with my show) on KRMARadio.com every monday from 4p to 4a.

Rob- That is how most people listen. Please put us in your pocket every week, and give us rating on I-Tunes and Stitcher. Please leave a comment to tell us what you liked about the show.

Please introduce our podcast to our new listeners.

Amanda- We study several news stories where gun owners survived a life threatening situation. Were these defenders lucky, or did they have a plan? What should we do if we were in their place? Our first story took place last week in Knoxville, Tennessee.

Rob- First story-  Do you have a firearm nearby when everyone is in bed asleep?

You wake up to hear someone beating on your front door.  It is 1:30 in the morning on a weekday. The pounding goes on for several minutes. Then you hear glass breaking at the back of the house. Your housemate shouts that someone broke through the back window. You grab your shotgun and wait in the hallway. You see the intruder, and he has a gun. You shoot him. Now your housemate calls the police.

Amanda- There are thousands of home invasion robberies every day. What‘s your plan if it happens to you? If you live alone you need a plan. If you live with someone then both of you really need a plan. Your family needs a plan.

Rob- So my plan has to change if my family is at home with me or if I’m home alone?

Amanda-  It sounds like this was a household of two guys. You need a plan so you don’t shoot your housemates or get shot by them. Talk about it now.

Also, consider if you could hide and let the police solve the problem for you. That depends on who else is in the house with you that minute.  AND the anticipated time for the police to get there.

Rob- So what does a plan look like?

Amanda- The story doesn’t say how the homeowner saw the robber. Did our defender turn on the lights? Did he have a flashlight? How could he see the robbers hands at the other end of the house.

Rob- I have to see the intruder to know if he is a threat.

Amanda- The law assumes that anyone who breaks into my house is there to do me harm, not take me to the prom. Also, this robber was armed, but you can’t assume that. You can’t assume that law in every state – know your laws…and they say you can’t assume very intruder is a danger to you.

Don’t shoot your drunk neighbor or your stupid drugged nephew..unless he is a lethal threat to you.

Rob- The story doesn’t say where the shotgun came from. They make it sound like magic. One minute it wasn’t there, and the next minute the homeowner has a loaded gun in his hands.

Amanda- Gun Safes since this is the middle of the night. A nightstand drawer isn’t secure.  There are a HUGE variety of gun safes that are quick access – available to you. Simply google Quick Access Shotgun Safe.  
Rob- Now that I’m armed, when can I use my gun?

Amanda- Not when they knock on the door. Not when they break the back window. You only use lethal force, and that includes a gun, when you face a lethal threat, and you feel ( and can explain ) why your life was in jeopardy.   Such as… an armed intruder standing in the center of your house – is an immediate unavoidable lethal threat.

THAT is why you can use your gun.

Rob- Anything else?

Amanda- Since you’re working on your safety plan, practice calling the police.  Where you are, what you need, who you are. What you look like.

Also, if you carry in public then you need insurance. If you had insurance you’d want to call them too because if someone fired a shot – there will be a criminal investigation and you are in the center of it.

That is enough for now. Our second story happened last week in Fort Valley, Georgia.

Rob- Second Story-  Are you armed at home when you’re getting the kids ready for school?   

Your wife drove off to work. Now you’re getting your young girls ready for school. You hear a crunching sound, and the next thing you know two strangers are standing in your living room. They start to grab your things, and you fight with them to push them back out of your home. The kids are in the back room. You draw your firearm and shoot your nearest attacker. Now, both of the intruders run off. You call the police..and try to explain what happened to your wife.

The police capture your wounded attacker. He is taken to the hospital with non-life threatening chest wound. You know this man. You’ve given him donations of clothes before.

Amanda- It says this was a break in, so I assume the door was locked. Good for them.  That is always a good habit to get into.

Rob- It also sounds like the homeowner was either wearing a gun or had it very close to him.

Amanda- I’d like you to go armed so you don’t have to fight off two intruders just to go get your defensive tools.   Its easiest to know where you put your gun, when its with you.

Rob- Was this a gun problem?

Amanda- You’re being attacked by two people in your home. You’re also defending your family. You could not retreat because your family was there. The fact that you were outnumbered and felt that they intended to do you and yours harm – means you were ‘in the right’ to use a tool to stop the attack.

You are NOT allowed to use lethal force if the six year old next door comes over and starts fighting with you. That is not an immediate, unavoidable life threatening danger to you or others. You can just push the little stinker out the door and send him home, and the law expects you to do that.

Also, nobody wants to be shot by a gun.  That is true if the gun is a 22 or a 45. All guns have the potential to deliver lethal wounds, but most handgun wounds are not fatal.

Rob- So even a shot to my arm could be fatal if it isn’t treated.

Amanda- Exactly. Not treated, or in the ‘lucky or unlucky spot’  We teach people to aim for the center of the chest in order to stop the attack because its the largest area with the most ‘critical to life’ organs.  

Rob- The pictures of people at the shooting range show the shooter standing very still with his arms stuck out and firing very carefully. This man’s living room didn’t look anything like that. This was a dogfight that involved firearms.

Amanda- You’re talking about target shooting, and I love target shooting. We teach that, but we also teach people how to defend themselves with a handgun. Self-defense is usually over in the blink of an eye.

Rob- Is self-defense complicated?
Amanda- Yes and no. Look at the range of topics we talk about each week and you can see that the situations are not that simple, but handling a gun is easier than driving a car. You didn’t learn to drive a car in a one hour class, and I can’t pour everything you should learn into your head in an hour either.

Rob- So step at a time.

Amanda- Step at a time.  And Practice, practice, practice.

Rob- Lets step on to our next story.

Amanda- Our third story happened last week outside of Gans, Oklahoma.

Rob- First this message from the Buckeye Firearms Association.

Please support Buckeye Firearms Foundation at https://www.buckeyefirearmsfoundation.org/

Rob- Third story- Are you armed when you’re ex-boyfriend has been drinking?

You have a restraining order against your ex-boyfriend. You also have a firearm in your purse. Your ex shows knocks on the door of your apartment. He says he’s been drinking and wants to lay down. You say no. He raises his arm to push his way inside. You shoot him once in the center of the chest and he stops.  You stop shooting. You call 911 and ask for police and medical services.

EMT’s arrive and call for a life-flight transport due to life threatening injuries.

The sheriff said this was self defense.

Amanda- If you have an abusive ex then get a restraining order.   That was the paperwork – filed in a time where your head’s not swirling, and emotions are running high.  You can think through and explain why you are feeling a threat from this person.

Rob- What does a piece of paper do?

Amanda- Going to court now for the restraining order can keep you from going to jail later.  It also puts them on notice that you will not be tolerating their BS. This is part of your defensive plan – but I also want you to change the locks, get good locks on your doors, and learn armed self-defense.  Look at the lighting, trim the bushes and any hiding places… read up on implementing a defensive plan.

Rob- Some of your students have been victims of domestic violence? How are they as students?

Amanda-  Well, Rob,  They are interested, They are engaged.  THEY know that there is one person responsible for  their safety – and its them.

Rob- What would you tell your students to do in this situation?

Amanda- Don’t open the door. Make them break the door down because you changed the locks and their key doesn’t work any more. This isn’t negotiable. Change where you live if your landlord won’t put in new locks.   Maybe change where you live, anyway.

Rob- She had her gun with her.

Amanda- In a purse. I’d rather it was on her body because we put our purse down when we get home.

Bad start for opening the door – Don’t- just dont.  Good restraint for stopping when the threat stopped.   Your job is to stop the treat, the medical teams job is to provide the medical help necessary so that you can then take them through the legal system.

Rob- One of our listeners sent in an local article. In this case, a local stalker had harassed over 20 women. The judge not only put the stalker in jail, but the judge provided free concealed carry instruction classes for the victims. The link to that article is in our show notes. If you listen on your smartphone, the link might be in your pocket. Thank you, Matt for the article.

Amanda- This is important because domestic violence and stalking victims think they are alone and powerless. Abuse is a disease of doubt, and this class let the recovering victims see that they are not alone and they are not powerless. It is a beautiful prescription and a powerful antidote to abuse. Now, get trained and carry.

Rob- Let’s go on to our fourth story.

Amanda- Forth story? We usually do three stories.

Rob- Our listeners left us a message on the podcast facebook page and asked for a fourth story. If you like more stories, then let us know. If you want a shorter podcast, then let us know that as well.

Amanda- Our fourth story took place last week in New Orleans, Louisiana.

Rob- Fourth story- Are you armed when you’re protecting your daughter from an abusive boyfriend?

Amanda- This is our episode for stopping crazy ex-boyfriends.

Rob- It is. Your daughter called you. It is late at night, but she heard from her ex-boyfriend. She’d taken out a restraining order, but the guy didn’t learn. You’re inside her home when the ex boyfriend tries to break into the house. You’re armed, but the door holds and he can’t get in. He stops shaking the door and you think he went away. You hope he went away, but you see him at the back of the house. He is trying to set the house on fire. Now, you go outside and tell him to leave. He moves toward you and you shoot him. That stops the attack and you stop shooting.

Your daughter calls police. You stay and talk to them. EMTs take the attacker to the hospital. He is arrested and charged with attempted aggravated arson, home invasion, domestic abuse battery, simple assault and simple criminal damage to property, and two counts of violating a protective order.

Amanda- If abusers learned then they wouldn’t be abusers. Get the restraining order because a few hundred dollars for a lawyer now saves you tens of thousands of dollars later if you have to protect yourself.

Rob- What else did you see?

Amanda- Abusers and their victims both normalize violence. That is why it was great that the victim called her dad. He doesn’t accept excuses, like that is just the way he is, or he was just trying to frighten me, or it won’t happen again.   That small eroding of confidence and space. Creeping in, getting closer.

Rob- Strangers see with clear eyes.

Amanda- And strangers carry their defensive tools. There was no time to go back inside the house, get your gun, load it, and then defend yourself. Like a fire extinguisher, you need it right now.

Rob- This happened at 10 at night.

Amanda- Bring a flashlight. You don’t want to shoot the neighbor who saw the fire and came over to put it out. You must, you must, identify your attacker before you shoot.

Rob- You mentioned a fire extinguisher. It would be good to have that.

Amanda- And mount them on the wall rather than leaving them in the litter on the bottom of the closet.

Again, I give the dad credit for stopping when the attack stopped.

Rob- Talk to us about talking to the police.

Amanda- if you have domestic abuse in your family, then you have to talk about it. We have the urge to keep it quiet. Talk about who to call, what to do, and what to say to the police.

Be brief until you talk to your lawyer before you give a full statement later..and you will talk to your lawyer if you even mention that you have a gun.

Brief, and it isn’t easy for me to be brief- I was attacked. I defended myself, I want the person arrested. I’ll swear that in a statement and testify. I was standing about here when I shot, so the shell casing should be about here. i’ll give you a full statement after I’ve talked with my lawyer.

Rob- Why do we talk to a lawyer?

Amanda- You and I don’t speak clearly. The lawyer will take our story the next day and present it in a way that can’t be twisted or misrepresented.  And they help you get it complete – with an event like this, your head is swirling, things are going through your head like a kaleidoscope. You need a clear, concise and complete story of what happened.  Right the first time

Exit-  Rob- Well I’ll take your statement and turn it into a podcast. Thank you again for helping us. Where can we learn more about you?

Amanda- You can find me at eye on the target radio radio. I have a nationally syndicated radio show on Sunday night. Give us a listen and call in and talk with us.  I also instruct on the weekends.

Rob- Thanks again for the comments you’ve left on our podcast facebook page.

Amanda- We share this podcast with you for free.  All we ask is that you share the podcast with a friend and give us a rating on I-Tunes and Stitcher.  We’re also available on Google Play Music and Spotify.

Rob- This podcast is part of the Self-defense radio network at sdrn.us

I’m Rob Morse.  We’ll be back next week with more Self-Defense Gun Stories.

Episode 127 with Tony Simon

Are you safe at home, as you shop, and as you drive? What should you if your family is attacked? Rob and Tony analyze four new examples of armed defense. (20 minute audio)

Rob- Introduction- I’m glad you found us and welcome to episode 127 of Self-Defense Gun Stories.

This podcast is for people who are curious about a firearm for self-defense, and for those who already own one. I’m your host, Rob Morse. We’re joined this week by self defense instructor Tony Simon.

Tony- Hi, Rob.  I’ve been working and shooting and.. diversity shoot, minute man challenge.

I noticed you had a problem with the last podcast.

Rob- Apple didn’t like one of the settings from our podcast host, so they shut us down until I changed the language setting from american english to “EN”.

Tony, how do you listen to the show?

Tony- I listen to it on.. my phone as I drive to work.

Rob- That is how most people listen. Please put us in your pocket every week, and give us rating on I-Tunes and Stitcher. Please leave a comment to tell us what you liked about the show.

Please introduce our podcast to our new listeners.

Tony- We study several examples where gun owners survived a life threatening situation. Were they lucky, or did they have a plan? What should we do if we were in their place? Our first story took place last week in Millcreek, Utah.

Rob- First story-  Are you armed as you stop to buy a cup of coffee?  

You’re sitting in a coffee shop when a man comes in and starts yelling. He hits the employee behind the counter in the back of the head. She backs up, and her attacker hits her again and again. The other employees run away. The attacker then hits the woman with a metal crate from the counter. She falls to the floor and he starts kicking her.

You get up and yell at the attacker to stop. He rushes toward you. You have a concealed carry permit. You’re armed. You shoot the attacker once in the chest, and your attacker runs from the store. You wait there for police to arrive.

The police had to taze your attacker several times in order to arrest him. The injured employee said she remembers you, but never knew you were armed.

Tony- Crazy man on drugs and a repeat offender. He was running from the police when he ran into the coffee shop. In training we use real stories just like this to set up force on force and shooting problems.

Rob- No warning for the clerk.

Tony- Never expect a fair fight, bad guys looks for victims not for challenges. The defender was in his late 60s and the attacker was 37 years old. When you carry a firearm you should have really thought about the real choices that you have to make, like can I shoot an unarmed but dangerous attacker?

Rob- Is that enough disparity in physical size and strength to justify the use of lethal force?

Tony-We are not the police we have No duty to defend others. A concealed carry permit isn’t a badge and we need to know what our state laws are regarding lethal force. As responsible armed citizen we must decide if we would intervene to save another person’s life with deadly force. Can you live with yourself if this woman is beaten to death in front of you while you have the means to stop it from happening?

Rob- Duty to warn?

Tony- You don’t need to tell the bad guy that you have a gun or warn him in any way. At times it may not even be smart to warn him.  No duty to warn, but it does make your legal defense much easier because you can testify on your own behalf that the assailant tried to attack you.

Rob-  

Tony- As a armed citizen that has used his firearm in a confrontation you must call the police as soon as it is safe to do so. I have not read anywhere that the good guy called the police. He may have but we don’t know
Rob- Anything else?

Tony- That is enough for now. Our second story happened last week in Chesterfield County, Virginia.

Rob- Second Story-  Are you armed at home?   

It is almost 10AM on a Saturday morning when you hear a crunching sound from your back door. Your whole house shakes. You go to see what is going on. A stranger kicks through your back door. You shout for him to stop. You’re armed. He enters your home and you shoot him. He runs away, and you call police.

The police find your robber on your front lawn. He was wounded in the foot. This was his second robbery and break in this morning.

Tony- 9am on Saturday morning isn’t the time most people think that a home invasion will take place. The back door was obviously locked because the intruder made noise breaking in. That gave the homeowner a warning that someone had breached their perimeter in other words kicked in their door.

Rob- Any duty to run away if someone breaks into your home?

Tony- Virginia case law assumes that someone breaking into your house is there to hurt you. These stories are never clear about where the good guy gets their gun. We need to ask ourselves, where would our defensive firearm be at 9am on a Saturday morning? If its not on your body could you get to it if you had to fight off a 19 year old attacker? But I want to ask another question. Where did this gun appear from? Was he carrying? Was it in his bedroom and he had to get it and run to the back of the house?

Rob- The article doesn’t say.

Tony- Marksmanship, the ability to put rounds where they need to go is very important for the armed citizen. We are good guys and responsible for every round we fire. The homeowner shot this guy in the foot! I am going to go out on a limb here and say that shot placement was unintentional. POGO, and practice so you can quickly shoot center of someone’s chest from 5 yards. You want your shot to physically stop a threat not leave it up to the bad guy to decide if he keeps attacking you or runs away.

Rob- Why is that?

Tony- A gun is lethal force. That is only justified if you face a lethal threat. I can’t say this enough, take a class that covers the use of deadly force where you live. We are good guys and we always want to make sure we are following the law. If it isn’t a lethal threat, then it isn’t a gun problem and you should run away or use other tools. If it is a lethal threat, then stop the threat immediately.

Tony- f you can get away form a deadly threat do so but if you have family that can’t leave then you must defend them also.You might be able to run away. You can’t do that if you have a family to protect.

Our third story happened last week near New Haven, Connecticut.

Rob- First this message from my friends at Armed Lutheran Radio.

Give a listen at http://www.armedlutheran.us/

Rob- Third story- Are you armed when you’re sitting in your car?

It is 10pm, and you’re sitting in your car waiting for your cousin. You see your cousin walk out of his house. A stranger walks past him, and you hear them shout. You get out of the car, and the stranger stabs you. You are a registered gun owner. You also have your carry permit. You’re armed. You draw your gun and shoot your attacker.

You call police.

Tony- Police say the attack was unprovoked. This happens more than people think. The world has some mentally disturbed people that are very dangerous to those around them.

Rob- Justified? He has a knife and you have a gun.

Tony- A knife is deadly force. A knife attack is very dangerous especially a unprovoked knife attack because many people think that they got punched and don’t know that they have been stabbed. Stab wounds are much more deadly and you may be unaware that you are in a stabbing not a fistfight.  You’re allowed to use any tool if you face a lethal threat. You don’t have to fight fair, in fact, fighting fair is a horrible strategy.

Tony- After being stabbed the armed citizen drew his gun from concealment, fired one round, hit the bad guy in the chest and stopped the attack immediately. Good shooting. One shot and that ended the attack.

Rob- So the victim was stabbed, then he drew his gun from under his shirt, and shot the attacker.

Tony- That sounds difficult, but I train ordinary people to do that in our classes.

Rob- How would I learn to do that?

Tony- We teach the firearms portion and we bring in experts to cover both medical and police interaction.

Step at a time.

I teach firearms safety so you are safe as you handle your gun.

Basic marksmanship, so you can consistently manipulate a gun and hit your target.

Concealed carry, so you can draw from under your clothing and stop an attack.


Ask for the police and medical attention.

Say that you’ll help the investigators after you talk to your lawyer. That is exactly what the police are told to say if they are involved in a shooting. If it is good enough for them, then it is good enough for you.

That said, if you’ve thought about what to say, then you can point out evidence..like the bloody knife in the bushes where your attacker dropped it.

Rob- Do you talk about that with your students?

Rob- Let’s go on to our fourth story.

Tony- Forth story? We usually do three stories.

Rob- Our listeners left us a message on the podcast facebook page and asked for a fourth story. If you like more stories, then let us know. If you want a shorter podcast, then let us know that as well.

Tony- Our forth story took place in Colorado Springs.

Rob- Fourth story- Are you armed when you’re at home late at night?

You hear your wife scream. A strange is trying to get into your home. It is after dinner. You hear your wife run upstairs. You grab your pistol and run down stairs to see what is going on. A stranger comes through the back hallway and attacks you. You shoot him. The attacker runs outside. Your wife has already called police.

The police have to taze your attacker several times to get him into handcuffs.  EMTs transport the 20 year old attacker to the hospital.

Tony- Have a plan. During a home invasion isn’t the time to say “ OMG, what am I going to do?” You are already a victim and time isn’t on your side. A plan adds time. You can react much quicker if you have a plan because you can implement it immediately. My wife screams “Someone is breaking into the house!!” I know what I’m doing next. I fact I’ve practiced and trained for that very emergency.

Tony- Lock your doors. ‘Of course I lock my doors” says everyone. I’ve been a locksmith since the early 90’s and have tons of stories of bad guy walking into homes through unlocked doors.

Tony- Stay upstairs. Searching for a bad guy we call that clearing a structure isn’t something that you want to do at all much less alone. If your family is secure upstairs don’t risk getting ambushed downstairs by one or more people. If you are hidden at the top of the stairs, the bad guy has to come to you and the only way is up the stairs. You have the advantage of surprise and knowing where they will appear.

Tony- Have your defensive tools with you. POGO

Tony- Call the police and ask for help ASAP. Have a safe room. It doesn’t have to be anything elaborate. A solid door, a deadbolt, a phone that you have on you to call for help.

Maybe you won’t have to kill someone if you’re locked into your upstairs bedroom while the police tackle the idiot downstairs.

Talk with an instructor and figure out what to say to the police. Everything is recorded and will be used against you.
Exit-  Rob- that wraps up this episode. Tony, thank you for helping us again. Where can we learn more about you?

Tony- Tony- My website is Diversityshoot.com You can find me on Instagram and facebook at Simon Says Train and The 2nd is For Everyone podcast.

Rob- Let us know what you think. Do you like the longer podcast with four stories? Do you want more personal news from our instructors? Leave us a message on the podcast facebook page.  

Tony- We share this podcast with you for free.  All we ask is that you share the podcast with a friend and give us a rating on I-Tunes and Stitcher.  We’re also available on Google Play Music and Spotify.

Rob- This podcast is part of the Self-defense radio network at sdrn.us

I’m Rob Morse.  We’ll be back in a few weeks with more Self-Defense Gun Stories.

Episode 126 with Jeff Street

Are you safe at home? What should you if your family is attacked? We discuss four new examples of armed defense.

Rob- Introduction- I’m glad you found us and welcome to episode 126 of Self-Defense Gun Stories.

This podcast is for people who are curious about a firearm for self-defense, and for those who already own one. I’m your host, Rob Morse. We’re joined this week by self defense instructor Jeff Street.

Jeff- Hi, Rob.  Gabe White’s pistol shooting solutions, Private Coaching, Shooting Matches, Scoot n Shoots, and We will have 6 GLOCKs to give away at our Everglades GLOCK Range Event.

Rob- Jeff, how do you listen to the show?

Jeff– I listen to it on my iphone utilizing the Downcast podcatcher app.

Rob- That is how most people listen. You have our podcast in your pocket every week. Please give us rating on I-Tunes and Stitcher. Jeff, would you introduce our podcast to our new listeners.

Jeff- We study several examples where gun owners survived a life threatening situation. Were they lucky, or did they have a plan about what to do? What should we do if we were in their place?

Our first story took place last week in Portland, Oregon.

Rob- First story-  Are you armed as you have a yard sale at your parents house?  

Your mom and dad are having a yard sale, and you said you’d stick around to help. Your mom saw someone stuffing clothing into her handbag. Your mom and dad asked her to stop that. Instead of returning the items, the stranger sprayed you mom and dad with pepper spray, and tried to stab your dad with a knife. You stepped inside and got the family shotgun. You pointed the shotgun at the attacker and told her to leave.

She saw the gun and ran.  You called police. The police said the young woman was lucky she was not shot and killed.

Jeff- 1st let’s look at avoidance.  We try to keep the pool of people who have been on our property or inside our home to a minimum.  In our neighborhood the nearby county park lets you rent a space once a month for a community yard sale.  They had no clue who would show up to their property.

This crazy woman looked normal in her mugshot photo.

I like this story because it’s the most likely defensive gun use scenario in that no shots were fired.  The scarry shotgun got the job done. You still need to call 911 as soon as possible so law enforcement can hear your side of the story 1st. This type of Defensive gun use rarely makes the news.

Of course we must add POGO pants on gun on.

Sounds like she had mental health issues.

The time while you went inside to get a gun could have cost your parents their lives.

Have a good plan. “We’ll get our gun.” might not work if it is hundreds of feet away while you’re out at your mailbox. You only have the tools that are within reach.

Jeff- Having a gun can stop the confrontation from escalating, so it would have been better if the family was armed with firearms on their bodies.

Rob- Do you talk to your students about what to do if someone in your family is attacked?

Rob- This took place at a yard sale. In your shooting classes, do you include targets that you don’t want to shoot?

Rob- What did our defender do correctly?

Jeff- Good restraint that the son tried verbal commands and did not shoot when he saw that the verbal commands worked. Good restrain in not following the attacker.

Rob- I’m imagining that someone tried to stab my dad. I can’t holster a shotgun, so I have to go back inside and put it away. I have the same problem with a handgun if I don’t have a holster. What do I do with the gun when I need two hands.

Next question is, can I stop the bleeding?

Jeff- That is enough for now. Our second story happened last week in Warsaw, Missouri.

Rob- Second Story-  Are you armed when you go out to eat at a restaurant? 

It is late. You’re getting ready to leave a restaurant when you hear an explosion from the parking lot. At first you wonder if a car crashed into the sign outside and blew up. You hear it again, and then one of the restaurant windows shatters. Some crazy guy is shooting at the place. People are jumping out of their chairs and diving for the floor.

You have your carry permit, You’re armed. You move so there isn’t anyone in front of you, and you shoot at the attacker. Now he drives away. Lots of people call police. Amazingly, no one inside the restaurant is seriously hurt.

The intoxicated attacker was upset about a game of pool. He was arrested and charged with armed criminal action, 1st degree assault, and unlawful possession of a weapon.

Jeff- The police had been called after the crazy guy made credible threats.  The police came took statements and left. Then the crazy guy shows up.

It looks like the attacker was shooting from inside his car.  So our citizen hero shot at the car which caused the attacker to flee in his car.  

Our citizen defender had to respond very quickly, yet he took the time to move to a position where he wouldn’t be endangering bystanders.

Rob- Most attacks are face to face. This one was at a distance.

Jeff- sometimes you can use verbal commands. I’m betting this man was drunk, so verbal commands would not have worked in this case.

Rob- What else did you notice.

Jeff- I noticed that the defender had innocent people near him and had to move in order to have a clear shot.

Rob- We don’t want to hurt innocent people. Do you talk with your students about moving with a gun?

Rob- Do they get to practice moving around a target, a simulated person, that they don’t want to shoot, they don’t even want to point their gun at an innocent person.

Jeff- good restraint in that the defender stopped when the attack stopped.

Jeff- medical training. Our third story happened last week outside of Wichita, Kansas.

Rob- First this message from my friends at the Second Amendment Foundation.

Please join and support the Second Amendment Foundation at SAF.org

Rob- Third story- Are you armed when you’re driving your truck?

You’re driving along the street at 9 pm. A car pulls into the street right in front of you. You have to change lanes to keep from hitting the car. You pull back into the right lane and proceed on your way.  They car passes you, and then stops, blocking both lanes. The driver gets out of the car, walks up to your truck and demands money. You tell him to go away. The robber starts smashing windows of your truck.

You draw your firearm and shoot him. Now you call police.

You’re not charged. The robber’s family say he suffered from mental illness.

Jeff- our Defender was blocked in and couldn’t drive away. Once the window was broken our defender was in legitimate fear for his life.  Shooting the Crazy attacker was the only course left. Good thing he had his gun ready to use. The attacker died. Our defender probably had excellent shot placement.  The attacker may have seen the gun and still continued the attack. Well placed shots were the only answer. At this point we need immediate incapacitation.

mentioned in the previous story, that drunk people don’t respond to verbal commands. Crazy people don’t listen either.

Jeff- Again, no time to get a gun from home, or to go get ammunition and load it. By the time you recognize that you have a gun problem, you need your defensive tool right now.

Jeff- Drive away if you can.

Jeff- Use necessary force. It sounds like the victim stopped shooting when the attacker was no longer a threat.

Jeff- Call police. You want to identify yourself as the victim of a crime. Ask for police and EMTs.

Jeff- Call your lawyer.

Rob- Do we see attacks like this very often?

Jeff- There are thousands of attacks outside the home every day.

Rob- Let’s go on to our fourth story.

Jeff- Forth story? We usually do three stories.

Rob- Our listeners left us a message on the podcast facebook page and asked for a fourth story. If you like more stories, then let us know. If you want a shorter podcast, then let us know that as well.

Jeff- Our fourth story happened last week in Racine, Wisconsin.

Rob- Fourth story- Are you armed as you get into your car to go to work?

You’re running a little late and getting ready to leave for work. You hear two kids scream from in front of your house. You look up and see two kids being attacked by a dog, and the dog is about as big as they are. You run to the street and the dog stops biting the two kids. Now the 80 pound pit bull lunges at you.

You have your carry permit. You’re armed. You draw and shoot the dog. Evidently it wasn’t a fatal wound, and the dog runs back to it yard. You shout for help to treat the kids. Then you holster your gun and call police and EMTs.

The EMT take the children to the hospital to treat the bite wounds on their legs and feet. The dog has bitten strangers before.

Jeff- our hero stopped the attack on the kids but then the dog came after him.   Its difficult to hit a small fast moving target. The problem that you or i find ourselves in may be one that requires a higher degree of technical skill.  That is why we continue to train.

That is why Wait. let me go inside and open my gun safe and then get my ammunition that I keep stored in a separate location, and then load my gun, and then run to the scene to help.

Rob- There wasn’t time for that.

Jeff- People are attacked in their home and outside their home. I’m proud of this man for moving toward the sound of the screams to protect the kids. I’m also glad he wasn’t bitten himself. It shows good planning that he had a gun to protect himself and the children. The news reports say the dog and the older child weighed about 80 pounds. They were walking to the school bus stop down the street.

Rob- It was safe every other day.

Jeff- Yes, but that doesn’t mean it will be safe today or tomorrow.

Rob- Do you talk about this with your students?

Rob- It isn’t easy to shoot a small moving target with other people around.

Jeff- And the defender only grazed the animal. That means the bullet stopped somewhere else. You might be shooting down at a concrete or asphalt surface, and a bullet can skip off and head down the street into your neighbor’s house.

Rob- You might not be able to back up because the kids are behind you. How do you train your students to handle these situations?

Jeff- Small steps. Safety, concealed carry, advanced problems.

We get to practice all kinds of unusual shots out at the range. Those are things you probably can’t do at your usual shooting range where you rent a stall and have someone standing  and shooting right next to you.

Put your gun away.

Call for help.

Treat the injured. Medical training and equipment.

Call 911

Talk to the police.

Exit-  Rob- that wraps up this episode. Jeff, thank you for helping us again. Where can we learn more about you?

Jeff- Contact us at Step by Step Gun Training in Naples Florida.  We provide custom training courses as well as group classes. Leave a message for us on the Step by Step Facebook page.

Rob- Let us know what you think. Do you like the longer podcast with four stories? Do you want more personal news from our instructors? Leave us a message on the podcast facebook page.  We have an inbox there if you don’t want to leave your message in public.

Jeff- We share this podcast with you for free.  All we ask is that you share the podcast with a friend and give us a rating on I-Tunes and Stitcher.  We’re also available on Google Play Music and Spotify.

Rob- This podcast is part of the Self-defense radio network at sdrn.us

I’m Rob Morse.  We’ll be back in a few weeks with more Self-Defense Gun Stories.

Episode 125 with Andee Reardon

Can you defend yourself and your customers at work? What should you do when the police arrive? We discuss four new examples of armed defense. (23 minute audio)

I’m glad you found us. Welcome to episode 125 of Self-Defense Gun Stories.

This podcast is for people who are curious about a firearm for self-defense, and for those who already own one. I’m your host, Rob Morse. We’re joined this week by self defense instructor Andee Reardon.

Andee- Hi, Rob.  I’ve been working and shooting and enjoying some outdoor activities here in Maine.

Rob- Andee, how do you listen to the show?

Andee– I listen to it on my phone while I drive

Rob- That is how most people listen. Please put us in your pocket every week, and give us rating on I-Tunes and Stitcher. Please leave a comment to tell us what you liked about the show.

Andee- A listener left us a message about one of our stories where a couple who went to buy a camera and got mugged. He asks how many times you have to let your girlfriend be punched before lethal force is justified. Alone, she would easily be justified to use lethal force to defend herself, but can she really claim disparity of force while you’re standing right there?

Further, my girlfriend is a former UFC fighter. Does that mean I would have been disallowed to employ a firearm completely until the attacker produces a weapon?

Andee- It’s really important to know the laws in your state.

Our first story took place last week in Columbia, South Carolina.

Rob- First story-  Are you armed when you work behind the counter?

It is time to close up, clean up the restaurant, and go home. You look up from behind the cash register to see a man dressed in black clothes. He has a black mask over his face. He also has a black gun in his hand, and the gun is pointed at you. The robber says to open the cash register. You and your co-worker open the drawer and step back.

The robber reaches over the counter to grab the cash. That is when your co-worker reaches across the counter and grabs the robbers gun. You are armed. You present your firearm and shoot the robber as the two men struggle.

Now your attacker lets go of his gun. You and your co-worker run into the back room, but then come back out because you’ve left your customers unguarded. The robber is lying at the front of your store and you call 911.

Andee- Great that the defender had a gun on his body.

Rob- He didn’t have enough time to go back into the office where some store owners keep their gun. HE had his gun on him when he needed it.

Andee- Exactly, and our defender waited his turn. He was legally justified to use his gun as soon as he saw the robber threaten people with a gun. It met the legal standard of a lethal and immediate threat. Drawing right then leads to a gunfight. You’d rather wait until you get to shoot them and they don’t get to shoot you.

Rob- So he waited until the robber was involved with his co-worker, and the co-worker didn’t have to win the wrestling match with the robber.

Andee- All our defender needed was a fraction of a second head start so he could shoot the attacker first. His co-worker gave him the time he needed to draw his gun without being shot.

Rob- Do you think they had a plan?

Andee- I think he thought about it before it happened. He recognized the opportunity the instant the robber had his attention on struggling for his gun.

Rob- Anything else?

Andee- I like that they retreated to safety rather than chasing the robber. I also like that they worried about the rest of the customers.

You want to honor the witnesses.

Rob- What does it mean to honor the witnesses?

Andee- Tell the customers to get back away from the attacker so they are safe. The attacker might have another gun or an accomplice. If you can, you want the customers and staff to stay at the restaurant. Ask them if they are hurt. Have them there for the police to interview.

Rob- is there more?

Andee- This attack happened in South Carolina, so you don’t need a permit to carry behind the counter of your business. It would be foolish to survive an attack at your store, and then be attacked as you took the money to the bank. South Carolina is a shall issue state, so anyone who is legally eligible to own a gun is eligible to take the training and get a carry permit.

Rob- Good point. Do many of your business owners have their carry permits?

Andee- A lot of my students are small business owners.

Rob- Do you teach them how to draw a gun from a concealed holster?

Andee- I do. I feel it’s important to train for any possible scenarios. I’m a big advocate of carrying on the body, but that’s not enough. You need that muscle memory that comes from practicing your draw and firing on the range.

Our second story happened last week in Macon County, Missouri.

Rob- Second Story- Do you have a gun nearby when you’re asleep at home.

You hear someone inside your house. It is four in the morning. You roll out of bed and grab your gun. Before you can lock your bedroom door, the intruder is in your room and he’s pointing something at you.  It is a nail gun. You shout for him to leave.

Instead of leaving, the attacker drops the nail gun and draws a handgun from the waist of his pants. Now you shoot him. The attacker shoots back, but misses you. Your attacker falls down and you run from the room.  You call police.

The police say that the attacker used a ladder to get in an upstairs sliding glass door that was left open. The attacker was also carrying methamphetamine.

Andee- I talk about leaving doors and windows unlocked in my classes, it’s an intruder’s favorite way to enter- it’s easy and quiet. Balconies are often left unlocked because homeowners think they are hard to reach, ladders make it very accessible and often homeowners leave those outside. By securing your windows and doors, you’re creating an obstacle that an intruder can’t pass without making noise which will hopefully wake you. If you’re a sound sleeper, window and door alarms are fairly cheap and easy to install. Noise and time are your friend because they give you a chance to grab your gun and prepare.

Rob- The robber came in the bedroom and pointed a nail gun at the homeowner.

Andee- If you have your gun in your hand and are behind your bed, then you can yell at the robber to leave. A nail gun isn’t a lethal threat at that distance. A real firearm is a distance tool, and the homeowner defended himself when the robber drew a gun that presented an immediate and unavoidable threat.

Rob- So you have your gun pointed at the intruder. If they are at the other end of the house with a knife you can’t shoot them, but if they have a gun then you can?

Andee- and you should shoot because your life is being threatened right now, and if they are between you and the door then you can’t escape the threat.

Rob- Say that you’ve shot someone in your room. They fall down. What do you do now?

Andee- That is a hard question. You’d like to grab your phone and your clothes..but those might be back in the bedroom. Depending on where you live and the time of year, you might run out of the house to be safe.

Rob- Maybe run to a neighbor’s house and ask them to call the police?

Andee- Unless you live up here in Maine and it’s the wintertime. Everyone should make a plan ahead of time as to what they would do in different emergencies and let family members and people in the house know those plans also.

Rob- Do you talk about this with your students?

Andee- We talk a lot about planning ahead, muscle memory and how those thing are important when you’re under stress.

Our third story happened last week in Roanoke, Virginia.

Rob- First this message about my good friends at Gun Freedom Radio.

Listen to Gun Freedom Radio at http://gunfreedomradio.com

Rob- Third story- Are you armed at work?

It is three in the morning. You’re working at an all night gaming parlor. A stranger walks in, and before you know it, you hear a gunshot. Now the stranger yells for everyone to get down on the floor, and he fires his gun again.

You’re armed. You draw your gun and shoot the robber. He falls to the floor and drops his gun.

You take the criminal’s gun and call the police.

The police arrest the getaway driver.

Andee- I like that the defender was armed. Here is what I tell my students to do. First, if possible, take cover. Then shoot.

Rob- Why is that the first thing to do?

Andee- We want to cheat. We want to have the bad guy standing in the open and being a great big target, while we are hard to see, and even harder to shoot. It is pretty natural to drop behind a counter if you hear a loud noise.

Rob- Announcing yourself with a gun would make a lot of people jump, so everyone was probably moving and ducking down wouldn’t draw attention to you.

Andee- Again, honor the witnesses. Ask if they are hurt and need immediate help. Ask them to stay down, but to look around, see if anyone else is hurt or if there is anyone else with the attacker.

Rob- Should you disarm your attacker once they are down?

Andee- Yes, if you can do so safely. To protect others.

Call the police.

Give a short statement.

Clear lethal threat since the bad guy fired first.

Rob- lets go on to our forth story.

Andee- Forth story? We usually do three stories.

Rob- Our listeners left us a message on the podcast facebook page and about 80 percent wanted a fourth story.

Andee- I deserve a pay raise. Our last story took place in Cleveland, Ohio.

Rob- Fourth story- Do you have a gun accessible when you’re asleep at home?

You’re pretty sure someone just broke into your house downstairs. It is 2:30 in the morning. You get out of bed and grab your shotgun. You listen, and there are sounds coming from the first floor. You walk to the top of the stairs and wait.

You see a man turn the corner. You shout, “I’ll shoot you.” The intruder runs away. You call police. The intruder broke your kitchen window to get inside.

Andee- See? A locked window is easier to hear! The homeowner heard the noise of the window being pried open with a screwdriver. The homeowner was 68 years old. He used his shotgun as his defense gun and kept it ready.

Rob- So he probably didn’t want to go hand to hand.

Andee- He did not go investigate. He waited in a position of advantage. (good view. Only one direction of approach. You’re behind the wall or the floor, and they are out in the open. They have to work extra hard to come up the stairs to get to you.)

Rob- Should the homeowner have turned on the lights and shouted that he was armed?

Andee- Turning on lights is usually an advantage to the intruder- You already know the layout of your home. A tactical flashlight can be very useful though to help you see and blind the intruder. The homeowner didn’t chase the intruder, he waited. Calling out to warn you have a gun is important in some states so know the laws in yours.

Rob- Does this sort of attack happen very often?

Andee- There are lots of home break-ins. About one out of 40 of us will be the victim of a burglary or property crime each year. About 6 thousand of us defend themselves with a firearm every day, but I don’t know how many of those are the result of a robbery when the victim is at home. Here in the US, would-be robbers tend to pick homes at a time when no one is there. That being said, as the drug problem increases, these break-ins while the homeowner is present are becoming more frequent.

Rob- Do your students practice what to do in this situation?

Andee- Follow your safety plan: Get your tools, defend. Call police. Put your gun away when the police arrive.

Let the police clear the house rather than you doing it in the dark.

Exit-  Rob- that wraps up this episode. Andee, thank you for helping us again. Where can we learn more about you?

Andee- Find me at EastCoastSchoolofSafety.com and on my facebook and Instagram pages with the same name. EastCoastSOS_ar

Rob- We appreciate the feedback we’ve received on having four stories. Leave us a message with comments or questions on the podcast facebook page and we’ll answer them on the show.

Andee- We share this podcast with you for free.  All we ask is that you share the podcast with a friend and give us a rating on I-Tunes and Stitcher.  We’re also available on Google Play Music and Spotify.

Rob- This podcast is part of the Self-defense radio network at sdrn.us

I’m Rob Morse.  We’ll be back next week with more Self-Defense Gun Stories.

Episode 124 with Robyn Street

Can you protect your family and your neighbors? How about treating the injured until help arrives? Here are four new examples of armed defense.

Rob- Introduction- I’m glad you found us and welcome to episode 124 of Self-Defense Gun Stories. This podcast is for people who are curious about a firearm for self-defense, and for those who already own one. I’m your host, Rob Morse. We’re joined this week by self defense instructor Robyn Street.

Hi, Robyn.  I see that you’ve been busy with clinics on the weekend and your women’s group during the week.

Robyn- Hi, Rob.

Rob- Robyn, how do you listen to the show?

Robyn- I listen to it on my iPhone on the apple podcast app

Rob- That is how most people listen. Please put us in your pocket and give us rating on I-Tunes and Stitcher. Please leave a comment to tell us what you liked about the show. Now that we’ve talked about how to listen, tell our new listeners what to expect.

Robyn- We’re looking at several new stories of armed defense.  These gun owners survived a life threatening situation, but were they lucky, or did they have a good plan? What should we do if we were in their place, and how would we learn those skills?

Our first story took place last week in Spanaway, Washington.

Rob- First story-  Are you armed at home early in the morning?

You and your mom hear a scream from across the street. The sun is just coming up. You get dressed and go next door to see what is going on. Your neighbor had been attacked by her ex-boyfriend. The neighbor already called police.

You and your mom walk back to your home and notice that the power is off. That seems suspicious. You grab the family gun. You are only 16 years old, so you can’t carry in public. A few seconds later the ex-boyfriend forces open your back door and attacks you with a knife. You push him away and fire your gun. Now he runs.

Your mom calls police. They arrest your attacker. He is charged with first degree assault,  burglary, and domestic violence.

Robyn- I would have preferred that the mother and daughter have called the police when they heard the scream.  There was also a vandalized car. Both of these are clues that it is time to plan for our own safety.

Rob-  We tell people to stay at home and call police, but the police had been called several times and were unable to stop the threat.

Robyn – They left the relative safety of their home to go to see what was going on at the neighbors house.  It does not appear that they had any plan to protect themselves or the neighbor when they went to check on the neighbor.  Lots of warning bells should be ringing in their head. I would prefer that they had stayed home planning for their own security.

Robyn – Domestic situations are very dangerous.  Highly emotionally charged. We are not sure, but perhaps that is why the ex-boyfriend attacked their house.  Perhaps he felt that they were interfering or preventing him from succeeding with his ex-girlfriend.

Robyn – I also imagine that it was quite possible that he was under the influence of alcohol or drugs.  Lots of variables were in place to make this a very dangerous situation.

Robyn- If they were worried, I think that they should have called the police and then called the neighbor to check on her welfare.  That would have been much safer for the mother and the daughter to stay in the relative security of their home.

Robyn – I have several questions about the 16 year old grabbing the family gun.  Where is it stored? Why didn’t the mother grab the gun? What training did the 16 year old have?  Did they have a plan on what to do if a bad situation was unfolding?

Robyn – the daughter heard a noise coming from the back door and saw the suspect standing in the doorway.  I hope the noise occurred because the door was locked and he had to break into the house. Now is the time to install study locks like dead bolts and to use them all the time.  It is also helpful to lengthen and strengthen the screws used to hold the door frame in place. This would discourage less motivated intruders, slow down the motivated intruders and make noise to provide a warning for the homeowners.

Robyn – I would also advise the mother and daughter to position themselves in a position the provided concealment and cover.  A place where they could see what was happening in the doorway and where they would not be close enough for the intruder to start cutting the 16 year old with his knife.  A firearm is a distance tool. She could have protected her family without being in close proximity to the intruder.

Robyn – the intruder told the 16 year old that she was going to die and cut her several time with his knife.  That is a tough young lady. She was not going to let him kill her.

Robyn – I am happy that one shot was enough to convince the intruder that he needed to leave.  He had not prepared for his intended victims to fight back. It certainly sounds like without the pistol this story would have had a very different ending.

Robyn –  I am glad that the police found the ex-boyfriend and I hope that this situation will be enough to keep him away from his ex-girlfriend and the neighbors for a long time.

Rob- What would you tell your students to do?

Robyn- I like for families to have plan about how to handle situations.  I wish the young woman’s mom would have been the one that was armed. She should have been the responsible adult protecting her child.  But we do not know all the details of their lives. I am glad the mother was at least on the phone with the police while the daughter was defending the family.  They needed to get help there as soon as possible!

Robyn- Our second story happened last week in LIncoln, Illinois.

Rob- Second Story-  Are you armed when you answer the door at sunrise?

It is just about dawn. You hear a crash from the front of your house. Before you could go outside to investigate, there is a crazy man rattling your door knob. Fortunately, the door is locked. You yell for him to go away. He breaks the side window and tries to reach inside. You shoot at him and  he runs away. You call police.

Police report that a madman has broken car windows and front doors all along your street.

Robyn – Here we go again.  Please harden your home. Strengthen your locks and use them.  I know that side windows can be pretty but not the best idea from a security point of view.  It does not take much money or effort but in a bad situation, you will be thankful that you have done everything that you could do to ensure your security.

Robyn- Don’t open the door.  Don’t go outside to investigate.  Stay inside and use cameras to gather information.  Call the police and let them come investigate. Until the police arrive, stay on the phone with 911 and put your self-defense plans into action.  Prepare for the worst situation and hope that the police arrive before you are forced to enact your plan.

Robyn – That brings up a good point.  You need to make plans now. It is easy to come up with plans and evaluate them and improve them while we are calm.  Planning also helps to eliminate the time that can be lost from the denial/justification loop. Planning also our brain to stay in control.  It is helpful for the brain to stay in a rational state and to say “well, we know this could happen let’s put that plan into action and protect ourselves.”

Robyn-  Have your tools with you and position yourself where you are prepared to protect and defend yourself.  

Robyn- That includes your phone, flashlight, other defense tools and medical supplies.

Robyn- Don’t fire through a door or window. If the door is in the way, then the intruder is still outside. Let the doors and windows do their job and keep the intruder outside.

Robyn- We replaced our windows with hurricane glass.  If flying trees aren’t going to break through, hopefully that would keep the brick from breaking the glass.  It can’t hurt and at least we tried.

Robyn- As long as the intruder is still outside there is still time to avoid firing the gun.  But it is certainly time to prepare in case the situation demand it.

Rob- We include links to these news stories in the transcript of the show. That is on our website, and some podcast applications put it in your phone as well.

Robyn -Our next story happened last week in Palm Beach, Florida.

Rob- First this message from my friends at DRGO

Please support Doctors for responsible gun ownership, DRGO.us

Rob- Third story- Are you armed as you run errands with your children?

You ran an errand while your 12 year old son was getting a haircut. Your 5 year old daughter is asleep in the backseat of your car. You park at the curb right in front of the barbershop. This is South Florida in September, so you leave your car running as you walk in to pick up your son and pay for his haircut. As you’re walking in, you hear a car door slam behind you. Someone is trying to take your car. You run to the passenger window and yell for him to stop. The car starts to move with your daughter still inside.

You have your concealed carry permit. You’re armed. You draw your firearm and shoot the kidnapper. Then you open the passenger door and guide the car to a stop.

Your attacker had a record of breaking into cars and not showing up for his court dates. Two days later the police say they will not file charges against you.

Robyn- I know it is inconvenient to wake a sleeping child but please don’t leave your child in the car.  

Rob- This happened very fast.

Robyn – So many things are going wrong.  The child is unattended in the car, the doors must not have been unlocked and the car was running for a quick get away.  Oh my…this is not good.

Robyn – I am glad that the father had his firearm on his body.  There was no time to go get it. Imagine if he had been storing the gun in the car.  When a bad situation develops you have the tools that you have at that moment and nothing else.

Rob- Was dad justified in using lethal force against a car thief?

Robyn- No. Dad was justified in using lethal force against a kidnapper.

Rob- What else?

Robyn- I like the line that said that he father drew his gun and ordered the kidnapper to stop.  But I have trouble with the next statement that he then opened fire. How many times did he shoot?  What was he hitting? Were any bystanders injured. Was the child injured? So many things could have gone wrong.

Robyn –  He slipped into the car and prevented it from crashing.  Brave and determined father stayed in control of the situation after things had gone terribly wrong.

Robyn – As soon as it was safe he needed to call 911 to get police and medical help to the scene.

Robyn- Our fourth story took place in Garland, Texas.

Rob- Fourth story- Are you armed as you meet someone to buy a camera?

You and your girlfriend are waiting outside someone’s home. You found a camera for sale, and you want to see it. The seller said he’d be there in a moment. That is when a stranger comes up and demands your money. You say you don’t have any. You attacker then pushes you and your girlfriend and says he knows you have money. You try to stop the attack on your girlfriend. Your attacker hits you. You draw your firearm and shoot him once.

Now you can withdraw and call police?

Preliminary reports indicate that the person selling the camera was the same person who tried to rob you.

Robyn- I hope that our listeners know better than to do this. Tell your friends not to do this any longer. Make sales at the police station.

Rob- A firearm is lethal force. I have to ask again if lethal force was justified.

Robyn- Best plan is to avoid this type of situation.  Planning might also have prompted you to have other tools to defend yourself – OC spray might have changed the attackers mind.   

Robyn – Protecting someone else is a bit more complicated.  In this case, he was confident that the girlfriend was innocent and was certainly in danger of death or grave bodily harm.  How many punches can his girlfriend absorb before she is incapacitated and lying defenseless on the ground? One? Two? This had to be stopped.

Rob- It is harder to run away if you have a partner with you. Do you talk about defending a friend, a spouse, a child with your students?

Robyn- We help families and friends develop plans about how to best defend themselves in bad situations.  It is very helpful to honestly evaluate the skills and limitations of each person. Each person needs to know how the other person will react to situations.

Robyn- Sometimes it is as simple as having a code word to let others know this is unacceptable and I need you to do exactly what I am saying or we need to enact our plan now.

Rob- Is there more?

Robyn – Call 911 to get police and medical help on the way as soon as possible.

Exit-  Rob- That wraps up this episode. Robyn Street, thank you for helping us again. Where can we learn more about you?

Robyn- I’m at Step by Step Gun Training in Naples Florida.  We provide custom training courses as well as group classes. (Ladys weekday at the range?) Leave me a message for us on the Step by Step Facebook page.

Rob- Let us know what you think. Do you like the longer podcast with four stories? Do you want more personal news from our instructors? Leave us a message on the podcast facebook page.  We have an inbox there if you don’t want to leave your message in public.

Robyn-  We share this podcast with you for free.  All we ask is that you share the podcast with a friend and give us a rating on I-Tunes and Stitcher.  We’re also available on Google Play Music and Spotify.

This podcast is part of the Self-defense radio network. Find the other shows at sdrn.us

Rob- I’m Rob Morse.  We’ll be back in a few weeks with more Self-Defense Gun Stories.

Episode 132 with David Cole

Can you protect your family and your co-workers? How about treating the injured until help arrives? We have four new examples of armed defense.

Rob- Introduction- Welcome to episode 123 of Self-Defense Gun Stories. I’m glad you found us. This podcast is for people who are curious about a firearm for self-defense, and for those who already own one. I’m your host, Rob Morse. We’re joined this week by self defense instructor David Cole.

Hi, David.  You took on a new discipline besides martial arts and handgun competition.

David- Hi, Rob.  I’ve been practicing with my new bow. It’s a whole new challenge.

Rob- and getting better. How do you listen to the show?

David- I’m sort of “old school”…I actually still use an iPod for almost all of my listening. Who’d have thought an iPod would be “retro”? The easiest way for most people is probably with their cell phone.

Rob- That is how most people listen. Please put us in your pocket and give us rating on I-Tunes and Stitcher. Please leave a comment to tell us what you liked about the show.

Now that we’ve talked about how to listen, tell our new listeners what to expect.

David- We’re going to look at several news stories about armed defense.  These gun owners survived a life threatening situation. They succeeded, but were they lucky, or did they have a good plan? What should we do if we were in their place, and how would we learn those new skills?

Our first story took place last week in Kissimmee, Florida

Rob- First story-  Do you have a way to defend yourself when you meet someone to buy a cellphone?

You want a new cell phone. You searched around and found a seller on Craigslist. You agree to meet at nearby store. It is daylight and there are people around, so it looks safe enough.

You meet the seller and ask to see the phone. He raises the price and raises his voice. He angrily demands to see the money.

You are carrying your handgun concealed. The buyer gets angrier and he tells you to give him all your money. He reaches for his belt.

You step back and draw your handgun. You fire as you run away. The robber gets in his car and drives away. You call police.

The police find the robber and take him to a local hospital. They take the robber’s gun as evidence. Police book your attacker for armed robbery.

This story sounds scary, but is it that unusual?

David- Citizens defend themselves with guns thousands of times a day. Most are assaults in public.

Rob- What is the first thing we should do to defend ourselves?

David- Think about your defense now, and where your risks are. Daylight in a public place may present less risk, but any encounter involving meeting a stranger to exchange cash is not risk-free. Don’t buy into the falsehood that “it’s a safe neighborhood,” or worse, “it can’t happen to me”.

Call your police department and ask them if they have a place with video cameras so people can safely buy and sell face to face. Most do, and it doesn’t cost you a thing to be safer tomorrow.

Rob- It sounds like our defender carried a gun on his body when he was attacked.

David- Have your defensive tools.  Have a permit, if required in your state…but don’t stop there. Learn how to present, and then practice it.

Rob- Someone who doesn’t have a gun can’t master self-defense this afternoon. What are the stepping stones to get there.

David- The best, first thing that anyone can do is incorporate awareness and good personal safety habits into their daily life. Read! (Jeff Cooper, David Fowler, Steve Tarani, Andrew Branca) And you don’t need a gun of your own to get started. Many ranges and schools have loaners or rentals you can use…and that might be the best way to learn which gun you might want to purchase. Then once you’ve made that decision, continue to train and practice.

That is enough for now. Our second story happened last week in Greenville, South Carolina.

Rob- Second Story-  Are you armed as you leave home and get in your car?   

You own a gun. You have your concealed carry permit. You put your gun on as you dress for the day. You’re walking out to your truck parked in the driveway. As you open the door to climb in you see someone come around the corner of your house. He is wearing dark clothes, a sweatshirt, a hat, and has a bandana over his face. He says something, but it is hard to understand him.He also has a gun in his hand. You’re not used to seeing a gun pointed at you, but it is clear you’re being robbed.

You move out of the way as your attacker fires at you. You draw your gun and fire at him. He runs away. You run back in the house and call police.

You are shaking with excitement, but you’re not hit. The police find the bullet holes in your truck and your house where the robber fired as he ran away.

David- Being both prepared and aware made the difference. Not only did our citizen have his defensive firearm on his person…where it should be!…he also had his head up and his eyes open. This allowed him to see the threat and react.

Rob- What would you tell a beginner to do?

David- Drop the keys and run.

Rob- What did our defender do correctly?

David- When the would-be robber decided he had urgent business elsewhere, our good guy let him go. Don’t chase the bad guys. A concealed carry license does not make us police officers; we carry to defend, not to apprehend. Take care of your own safety, and call the police.

Rob- Two interactions w the police. 911 and then with officers who arrive. What do you tell your students to do?

David- Be the first to call. I personally plan to give the dispatcher my physical description, and to let them know that I am licensed and armed. Do not have a gun in your hand when the police roll up…don’t assume that they know you are the good guy. Show them empty hands, and expect to be handcuffed until they sort things out.

Rob- What could our good guy have done better?

David- Practice shooting, because our good guy missed. A more committed robber may have pressed the attack, and misses don’t count.

Rob- Most people don’t practice that way when they go to  the range. They don’t practice as if their life depended on the first shot.

David-  Stepstones. Safety, routine handling, concealed carry, presentation and self-defense.

Rob- What else do you notice.
David- Well, I couldn’t help but notice that in the video interview of our good guy, he happily shows the interviewer his revolver…with his finger on the trigger. He won the day, but he could clearly use a bit more training. Shooting yourself is a less than ideal way to begin a gunfight.

Rob- Sounds like our defender has to go back to a firearms safety class.

David- We cover review that in every class. Our next story took place in Louisville, Kentucky.

Rob- Fist this message from my friends at CPRC

Please support the Crime Prevention Research Center at
http://crimeresearch.org/

Rob- third story- Are you armed as you sit in your office?

A customer comes into your office. He needs some paperwork processed for a car he bought. The man seems upset and argues with one of the clerks who is trying to help him. Finally, the clerks ask him to leave. The customer says he is going to get a gun and come back and shoot up the place.

The two clerks in the front of the store step outside to see if the customer is coming back. The customer shoots at the two clerks.

That is when you get up from your desk. You are a gun owner. You have your carry permit and are armed. You shoot at the attacker and he runs. You call police and ask for EMTs to treat your injured friends.

The police ask if you know who attacked your co-workers. Of course you do since he gave you his name and address.

A K9 unit finds the attackers gun near the scene of the crime. Police arrest your attacker. He had a previous drug conviction. This time he is charged with two counts of assault, possession of a handgun by a convicted felon, wanton endangerment, tampering with physical evidence, trafficking a controlled substance, possession of a controlled substance.

David- The most important thing I learned during my time as a police officer is that there are no “Mayberrys”. There are truly bad, violent people in your world. There are career criminals who view you as simply an obstacle to what they want. They do not value life as we do, and have zero concern for you.

Rob- What should we do.

David- POGO. Be alert, be vigilant. Have defensive tools and the skills to use them.

At home. At the office. This was Kentucky, so you can get your CCW. You could carry as you go to lunch or to the bank…and not all businesses are “gun free zones.”

Rob- You could start to make your family safer today even if you won’t have your permit until tomorrow.

David- Kentucky has made it very easy to get a CCDW. After completing a 6-8 hour training class, you can apply either at your Sheriff’s office or online through the Kentucky State Police. The online process is extremely quick, and I have heard of people actually having their license in hand in less than 7 days from submitting their application. Easier to transport to your office with CCW, and a lot of states have “parking lot laws” which allow you to have your gun in your vehicle, even if they don’t let you carry in the office. With this, at least you are able to defend yourself to and from work. The good guy with a gun stopped an attack and saved his co-workers.

Rob- You gave us a plan to be armed. What should we do if this were our office?

David- Ask for help. Treat the injured. Call police. Go get a medical kit and training.

Rob- Did you see injured people as an LEO.

David- Absolutely. And in my current role in corporate security, one of the things I teach is a personal safety and self defense class. In it, one of the things I emphasize is having both the tools and training to care for yourself or others medically until help arrives. I want to keep my family alive until EMTs arrive.

Rob- Even the simplest story is complex. Let’s stop here and go on to our fourth story.

David- I noticed that we’re using four stories now.

Rob- Thank you for listening.

David- Our fourth story took place in Madison, Wisconsin.

Rob- Fourth story- Do you have a gun nearby as you get up out if bed in the middle of the night?

At first you’re not sure if you hear something or not. You listen, and now you’re sure. Someone is breaking into your house. You go to your gun safe and get your handgun. You see the intruder come in through the kitchen window. You shout for him to leave. He does, and in a hurry. Your wife calls the police. You both go check on the two children in the house. Police noticed where the robber cut through your window screens.

David- I like this family. Do you know why the homeowner heard the burglar prying open the window before the intruder got inside the house? He heard the burglar because the homeowner locked his doors. The burglar couldn’t walk in, he had to break in and make noise. Again, don’t assume you live in Mayberry…you don’t.

It starts out as a simple burglary…perhaps the criminal didn’t expect anyone to be home. The problem comes when a resident is home, and things become violent. Then it’s a robbery. A common bit of advice we hear is, “just give them what they want.” But it doesn’t always end there. Better to be armed.

Rob- There were young children in the home. I think they were 5 and 6 years old. How do you keep your gun so you can get it but your children can’t? Fast access safe?

David- The homeowner gave a good description of the intruder. So even though the story doesn’t mention a flashlight or if the homeowner turned on the lights, I think he did.

Rob- so even if I have a dusty gun up on a closet shelf, I should also have a flashlight next to it?

David- Don’t shoot at what you can’t see. It’s difficult to shoot accurately in the dark, and is extremely risky legally and morally. Don’t plan for it. Don’t do it. Plan for a light. Get a light, and practice with a light.

The suspect is described as a white man in his 20’s with an athletic/slender build. He has shoulder-length dirty blonde hair parted down the middle. He was wearing a gray zip-up hooded sweatshirt.

Rob- Did the homeowner have the right to point a gun at an intruder?

David- Yes, but you need to be able to articulate a threat.

Rob- Is there more?

David- Rob- That is enough for now. We’ll be back after this message from Faster Colorado.

Please support Coloradans for Civil Liberties

Exit-  Rob- That wraps up this episode. David Cole, thank you for helping us again. Where can we learn more about you?

David- My training website is Aegis Solutions  on Facebook, and I’m also at BlackManWithAGun.com

Rob- Let us know what you think. Do you like the longer podcast with four stories? Do you want more personal news from our instructors? Leave us a message on the podcast facebook page.  We have an inbox there if you don’t want to leave your message in public.

David-  We share this podcast with you for free.  All we ask is that you share the podcast with a friend and give us a rating on I-Tunes and Stitcher.  We’re also available on Google Play Music and Spotify.

This podcast is part of the Self-defense radio network. Find the other shows at sdrn.us

Rob- I’m Rob Morse.  We’ll be back next week with more Self-Defense Gun Stories.

Episode 122 with Elizabeth Hautman

Can you defend yourself at home, in public, at work, and as you drive? How will you protect your family when there is no time to think? You need a plan. Instructor Elizabeth Hautman brings us four new stories of self-defense. (25 minute audio podcast)

Rob- Introduction- Welcome to episode 122 of Self-Defense Gun Stories.  This podcast is for people who are thinking about a firearm for self-defense, and for those who already own own. I’m your host, Rob Morse. We have self defense instructor Elizabeth Hautman with us as co-host.

Hi, Elizabeth.  I know you’ve been teaching and advertising at summer fairs the last few weeks.

Elizabeth- Hi, Rob.  I’ve been working and shooting and I even got to watch the outhouse races.

Rob- Elizabeth, someone asked us how they can listen. Most people have an application on their cell phone that automatically loads each new episode. Please tell our new listeners what they have in their pocket.

Elizabeth- We’re going to look at several news stories about armed defense.  These gun owners survived a life threatening situation, but were they lucky, or smart, or did they have a plan? What should we do if we were in their place, and how would we learn those new skills?

Our first story took place last week in Elmira, New York.

Rob- First story-  Do you have a gun nearby when your family is waking up early in the morning?  

It is Sunday morning, so you get to sleep in. You’re at home with your wife and four young children. You’re jolted awake when you hear a crashing sound from the front of your house. Someone kicked in your front door. You keep a shotgun in the corner. You grab your gun and walk toward the front of the house. A stranger is standing in your house and walks toward you. You shoot him once. Now he turns around. You stop shooting.

Your wife grabs the children and calls police. The intruder was a felon who served time for robbery.

Rob- This story sounds scary, but is it that unusual?

Elizabeth- Self defense thousands of times a day. Most are assaults in public, but many of them are inside your home or business.

Rob- What is the first thing we should do to defend ourselves?

Elizabeth- Have a plan to protect yourself and your family. That usually means you’ll want a gun as part of your plan.

Rob- You didn’t say, get your gun. You said the first thing to do is to make a plan.

Elizabeth- Once you’re attacked there is too much to do and no time to do it. That is why you want to talk about this and rehearse the possible scenarios ahead of time with your spouse..and later as they grow up, with your children.   Just like when I taught my children about fire drills. It is not to panic them but to equip them with the skills and knowledge to handle the situation. And every child is different, as the parent, you get to decide at what level and how much information that will educate your children but not scare them.

Rob- What comes first.

Elizabeth- If you had a fire then you’d wake up your family and get them out of the house. Then you’d grab a fire fighting tool like a fire extinguisher. If you had an intruder, you’d grab your defensive tool, your gun, and your spouse grabs the kids and then calls 911.

The man grabbed a gun and went to investigate, because it was not a door to door salesman knocking at the door, it was an intruder who kicked his way inside. Your family is in danger right now and protecting them comes first.

Rob- That means a lot, because I could waste a lot of time calling 911 when I needed to protect my family.

Elizabeth- It sounds like the adults worked together. Someone called the police before the intruder was shot. I imagine that was the wife making a call on her cell phone. That’s great. She updated the police after shots were fired and her family was safe. If you can, stay on the phone until the police arrive. That is hard to do as you take care of four children.

Rob- What do you recommend for home defense.

Elizabeth- This is what I tell my students. If you conceal carry, then use the tool you know best. That may be your handgun. If you’re a hunter who doesn’t carry a handgun every day, then again use the tool you’re most comfortable with.

Rob- What would you tell a stay at home mom or dad to carry?  This question comes up in my classes quite a bit.

Elizabeth- I want them to get a permit and carry all the time. Until then, carry on body at home. You say you’re a stay at home parent, but your out of the home a lot. You go to school, to the store, to the gym, to the mailbox or to a neighbor’s house. You might be working in the yard. I want you to have your defensive tool all the time, that means a handgun that is carried on your body.

You took driving lessons to drive a car. You’d take swimming lessons if you didn’t know how to swim, or take lessons to learn how to ride a horse or scuba dive. We aren’t born knowing those things. Take a class and learn how to use your defensive tool.

Rob- Do you give your students homework?

Elizabeth- I do. Sometimes I go to their home and we walk through it together.  Sometimes another pair of eyes can look at situations and floorplans in different ways.  I can also suggest tools to keep your firearm accessible and unavailable to unauthorized people – kids…

Rob- What sort of things are you looking for.

Elizabeth- Start with inexpensive fixes – trim hedges away from the house – eliminating dark hiding places for bad guys, proper lighting, possible timers with different schedules to turn lights on and off when you are not around – especially as fall approaches and it is getting dark earlier.  Deadbolts, gun safes,

Rob- Anything else?

Elizabeth- That is enough for now. Our second story happened last week in Redding, California.

Rob- Second Story-  Are you armed when you’re helping someone with their homework?   

You’re visiting your girlfriend. It is a weeknight and lots of people are in the house. Your girlfriend’s cousin is working on homework and you are helping her. You’re also holding a four month old infant in your arms. Two men start a loud argument, and the homeowner tells them to go outside. They go outside, but they keep fighting.

You walk outside and ask them to stop. One of the men attacks you as you’re holding the infant. He hits you in the face several times. The child slips from your arms, but you catch her before she hits the ground.

You own a gun. You have your concealed carry permit. You’re carrying concealed today. You draw your gun and shoot your attacker once in the chest. Now he stops hitting you.

You shout for other people to call police. You stay on the porch until the police arrive.

EMTs said your attacker was dead when they arrived. The police identified your attacker and said he was a registered sex offender and had a long record of crimes and run-ins with the law.

Elizabeth- This is important?

Rob- Why?

Elizabeth- Suppose someone who is my own size and strength hits me. That isn’t considered a lethal threat. I can backup, or run away, or hit back to protect myself.

If I have a child in my arms then I need to immediately stop the threat for the safety of the innocent child. Thank god this man had a gun.

Rob- I’m imagining that I was in this man’s situation. All I’m doing is visiting a friend. That sounds like a safe place, and then things turned violent in a fraction of a second.

Elizabeth- Right. If you knew it would get crazy, you wouldn’t go. In fact, everyone would leave. You’re helping a student with their math and then this man attacked you and you had to defend yourself and others.

Rob- This was a dangerous situation.

Elizabeth- It is a really hard problem. You’re getting hit in the face. You have an infant in your arms so you can’t put up your arms and defend yourself. You have to turn your body so your body is between you and your attacker. You have to pull up your shirt, grab your gun, point it at your attacker, and press the trigger. Try doing that with one one handed while you’re holding a child.

Rob- Great. Now we’re one of the few podcasts that give homework to our listeners.  But you’re right. I need to try that myself and see if I can do it and how long it takes me.

Elizabeth- me too.

Rob- What else do you notice.
Elizabeth- Our defender asked people to call the police. He stayed on the scene to give his story. If you’re safe, then don’t run away. Bad guys run away and good guys stay and talk to the police. Unfortunately, our good guy dropped the gun rather than put it back into his holster. I wish he’d listened to these stories so he would have known what to do.

Rob- Putting your gun back into the holster isn’t easy when your that excited.

Elizabeth- Again, that takes practice. I know that I would be really emotional if I just defended my life and shot someone. Now I’ve got a baby on the ground and a gun in my hand. If I didn’t have a plan to safely re-holster my gun, if I hadn’t practiced that motion time after time, then it is easy to imagine being overwhelmed in the moment. That is why it is so important to practice holstering your gun.  I teach my students to draw from their holsters efficiently and reholster reluctantly. This is where muscle memory comes into play.

Rob- So we have been practicing all along. Good for us.

Elizabeth- You’re not done yet. You can’t influence the witnesses, but you can ask them if they are hurt. Ask them to stay put so the EMTs can look at them, and then ask them to stay so they can tell the police what they saw. They are part of your defense that you did the right thing, and you want the police to talk to them and establish their statements as part of your record.

Rob- You didn’t commit a crime, but you’re already putting elements in place that will show you’re the good guy in a court of law. Do you talk to your students about that too?

Elizabeth- I tell everyone about that..even our listeners.   Our third story happened last week near Detroit, Michigan.

Rob- Fist this message from my friends at Armed Lutheran Radio.

Give a listen at http://www.armedlutheran.us/

Rob- Third story- Are you armed when you open up your store first thing in the morning?

You work at a pawn shop. The store isn’t open yet, but you’re already getting ready for the day. There is equipment to repair. You’ll put construction tools out in front as workmen rent them for the day.  Before you get that done, there is a loud crash from the front of your store. You look into the front room to see a truck drive out of your store. He smashed a hole where your front door used to be. Now two men run inside and run to the gun counter. You shoot them. They run back outside, jump into their truck, and drive away.

You call the police and show them the surveillance videos.

Elizabeth- This is harder than it looks.

Rob- Why is that?

Elizabeth- If this break in were at my home then I’d be in my bedroom. The door is already locked. I’d grab my gun, point it at the door, and call the police.

I’d do the same thing if this were a clothing shop before it opened. Let them steal the money and the sox.

But this store had guns, and the thieves wanted the guns to commit more crimes. That is why gun-store employees go armed. They will kill you if you try to rob them.

Some states forbid you from protecting property. Some states allow you to defend yourself from any intruder. Michigan is a stand your ground state. The employee had no duty to run. That means that people who break into your home, your office or your store are assumed to be there to hurt you. You don’t have to get hit before you can defend yourself given that they have already smashed down the wall of your building.

That is the law. In general, don’t use your gun unless human life is at immediate risk.

Rob- That is a lot to think about.  In fact, it is too much for me to think about if it was happening to me. I’d have to plan what to do ahead of time.

Elizabeth- I talk to store owners. I train them and train with them. Safety is part of their business plan. They have their rules for them and their employees. Don’t go to war over the sox and snickers bars, but if employees are at risk of immediate serious harm, then they and you may and should use lethal force do protect human life. Think about it now.

Know your target and what is beyond..

Rob- How do your students learn about that?

Elizabeth- We talk about it a little, but there are excellent books and seminars on exactly that subject. (Which ones have you been to? NRA? Branka? McYoung? Kincaid?)

Rob-What else should we do in this situation.

Elizabeth- Don’t chase the bad guys. Make sure you’re safe. Once you’re sure you’re out of danger, then holster your gun and take a breath. Also, tell yourself a joke. Call the police. Call your lawyer. Wait for the police and give them a brief statement.

Rob- Even the simplest story is complex. Let’s stop here and go on to our fourth story.

Elizabeth- Forth story? We usually do three stories.

Rob- Our listeners left messages on the podcast facebook page. About 70 percent of the comments are in favor of a longer episode. Thank you, Leroy. If you like more stories, then let us know. If you want a shorter podcast, then tell us.

Elizabeth- Our fourth story took place in Winterhaven, Florida.

Rob- Fourth story- Are you armed as you drive for a ride-sharing company?

It is late at night. You’re driving for a ride sharing company. You get a call to drive someone home from a local bar. You’ve been there before. You identify yourself as you drive up. The lady matches her picture on the Uber account. She gets in and you start to drive her home. You’re on the highway when a pickup truck tries to run you off the road. You pull over to let him pass.

A truck driver stops and gets out of his truck. He runs toward your car and has something in his hands. The truck driver shouts, “You know I’ve got a pistol. You want me to f’ing shoot you!”

You own a gun. You have your concealed carry permit. You’re armed and carrying concealed right now. You draw your firearm and shoot your attacker as he reaches the door of your car.

You call 911 and provide emergency medical aid to your attacker.

Police said the driver thought you drove away from the bar with his girlfriend. You had never seen this passenger before this ride, and the truck driver’s girlfriend was back at the bar.

The police believe the truck driver may have been intoxicated and are waiting for medical reports on drugs and alcohol from the state medical examiner.

Elizabeth- This is a good story. I’m glad the driver had the means to protect himself and his passenger.

Rob- What do you see?

Elizabeth- Most of the attackers in assault cases are intoxicated on either drugs or alcohol. That is true for both robberies and fights at the local bar.

Rob- So you’re saying that the attacker’s story doesn’t have to make sense.

Elizabeth- Sometimes the crazy person is out to get you for no reason. That means you can’t always talk your way out of a problem. Yes, you should deescalate a situation if you can, but sometimes you can’t.

Rob- What do you tell your students to do?

Elizabeth- Be the innocent good guy. You can defend yourself because you didn’t do anything wrong. You lose that legal presumption of innocence if you threaten someone in a bar. You lose that innocence if you try to run someone off the road in a road-rage incident. If you do, then you lose the right of self-defense.

Rob- There is a lot to learn as you carry a gun for self-defense.

Elizabeth- But you can learn it. Not in one day, but you didn’t learn to drive in one day. It took a lot of practice before you could drive anywhere, day or night. Like learning to drive, there might be situations where you wouldn’t carry your gun yet because you feel you don’t have enough experience. That voice of concern you hear might be your good judgement trying to give you a message. Keep learning.

Rob- Is there more?

Elizabeth- Rob- That is enough for now. We’ll be back after this message from Buckeye Firearms Foundation

Please support Buckeye Firearms Foundation at https://www.buckeyefirearmsfoundation.org/

Exit-  Rob- That wraps up this episode. Elizabeth Hautman, thank you for helping us again. Where can we learn more about you?

Elizabeth- Elizabeth- I instruct in Colorado Springs.  I teach small classes at my private range in Black Forest.  Students can contact me at Colorado Boots Firearms Instruction.

Rob- Let us know what you think. Do you like the longer podcast with four stories? Do you want more personal news from our instructors? Leave us a message on the podcast facebook page.  We have an inbox there if you don’t want to leave your message in public.

Elizabeth-  We share this podcast with you for free.  All we ask is that you share the podcast with a friend and give us a rating on I-Tunes and Stitcher.  We’re also available on Google Play Music and Spotify.

Rob- I’m Rob Morse.  We’ll be back next week with more Self-Defense Gun Stories.

Episode 121 with Ben Branam

Can you defend yourself at your office, as you drive, at home and where you work? Instructor Ben Branam brings us three new stories of self-defense. (23 minute audio podcast)

Rob- Introduction- Welcome to episode 121 of Self-Defense Gun Stories.

This podcast is for people who might want a gun for self-defense, and for those who already a firearm.  I’m your host, Rob Morse. We have self defense instructor Ben Branam with us as co-host.

Hi, Ben.  I know you’ve been working on physical conditioning as well as shooting in the last few weeks.

Ben- Hi, Rob.  I’ve been working out and shooting..and my website was hacked by a shoe store.

Rob- Please introduce our podcast to our new listeners.

Ben- We will study several examples of armed defense.  These gun owners survived a life threatening situation, but were they lucky, or did they do the right thing? Our first story took place last week in Princess Anne, Maryland.

Rob- First story-  Are you armed at work?  

You own and operate a pharmacy. You ate lunch and are working in your office on some paperwork. You hear shouts from the front of the store. You step out of your office to see two large men wearing ski masks over their faces. They have a rifle pointed at your employees and your customers at the check-out line. You grab your handgun out of your drawer and shoot at the robbers. They run. None of your employees or customers were hurt.

Ben- The pharmacist had a gun.  Good for him.

Rob- Both of the robbers were over six feet tall, and they had a rifle.

Ben- The attackers had an preponderance of force. There were two of them and only one armed defender. They told people to get down on the ground. They posed a lethal threat with their rifle. That is why lethal force was justified, and necessary, to save innocent lives.

Rob- You need to recognize the situation when you see it. You can ask yourself, if I see this, am I justified in protecting myself and others.

Ben- Our good guy had thought that part through. He did not think about his self-defense enough. He did NOT carry a gun on his body. He had his gun in a drawer in his back office. That means he was  lucky to be in his office when the attack happened. If he had been at the drug counter.. A place where he spends a lot of time each day.. then the thieves could have taken the money, the drugs, the gun, and perhaps their lives as well.

Rob- Is this a common crime and a common response?

Ben- The bad news is that people are robbed tens of thousands of times a day. The good news is that we defend ourselves with a gun, in situations just like this, thousands of times a day.

Rob- You’ve trained small business owners. What do you tell them to do?

Ben- The pharmacist recognized a problem. He faced a lethal threat and he acted. He shot at his attackers. When it is time to press the trigger, opening your mouth and talking makes it much more likely that you’re going to get shot.

Rob- he understood that this could happen to him.

Ben- Right. I’m betting that either he was robbed before, or someone he knew was robbed. Most people don’t listen to this podcast, so they don’t know.

In this case, there were three gang members who came in to do harm. That is why I want all the adult staff to be armed, not just the sore owner. There were times when the pharmacist wasn’t at his desk with his gun. He might go out for lunch. He might run to the bank or go to the post office box. He might be in the back of the store accepting a shipment that was being delivered. That means he won’t be there to protect his staff.

I want the assistant pharmacist armed because they are at risk.

I want the cashire and the stocking clerk armed because they are at risk.

Rob- The pharmacist missed his attackers when he shot at them.

Ben- A gun is not a magic wand. You have to practice until your first shot hits your target.

Another good thing that the pharmacist did is he did not chase after the robbers. I want you to stay behind a wall so you don’t give that bad guys a target to shot at.

Also, there was a getaway driver waiting for the criminals to come out. You don’t want to run out the door and get shot by their accomplice. So, good job there. The police arrested all three of the bad guys and they are now in jail.

Rob- Anything else?

Ben- That is enough for now. Our second story happened last week in Old Iron Town, Utah.

Rob- Second Story-  Are you armed at home?   

You’ve finished lunch and are at home with your spouse. You’re both retired and have some disabilities. You hear a crash from the front of your house. A naked man broke through your front door. You shout at him to get out. You also grab your gun. The stranger walks toward your spouse and you shoot the intruder. Now the intruder turns around and leaves.

You call police.

Police find the intruder sitting in front of your house. He fights with the police and has to be tazed several times.

Ben- This is the carry your gun on you all the time episode.

Rob- How so?

Ben- Suppose you and your spouse were on opposite sides of the house when the intruder breaks in. You might have to fight your way to your gun while your spouse is being attacked, and then get back to the fight while the attacker is now holding your spouse. That’s a very hard problem to solve. That is a nightmare. You’re in your 60s or 70s and a 24 year old man is beating up your wife or your husband.

Suppose you were watching your grandkids that day. Maybe then you can’t get to your gun and you all become victims. Let’s plan ahead so we face a problem we can solve.

Rob- Lots of people imagine they will have time to get their gun.

Ben- We’ve asked our listeners to find out for themselves. If you have a gun in the other end of the house, have a friend start clapping slowly. As they clap, you have to go to your gun and then come back to your friend. Each clap was a time your friend was hit by an attacker. Do you want to wait that long? I don’t.

Rob- Wow.

Ben- Again, our good guys used verbal commands. “Get out of here.” and then they used self-defense when those commands didn’t work. Good job. Again, they called police and did not chase the crazy naked man. Leave that for the cops.

Rob- I noticed that both our first story and our second story took place in the middle of the afternoon.

Ben- Our third story happened last week outside of Pittsburg, Pennsylvania.

Rob- Fist this message from Doctors for responsible gun ownership.

Ben- Hey, I know them.

Please support Doctors for responsible gun ownership, DRGO.us

Rob- Third story- Are you armed when you’re driving?

You delivered food to an address after midnight. You’re walking back to your car when a stranger comes out of the darkness.

The stranger has a knife and demands your money and keys. He stabs you. You retreat to your car and grab your gun. You shoot your attacker. Now he stops attacking you.

Neighbors come outside and call police. You’re taken to the hospital for stab wounds to your back, shoulder, and head.

Ben- I just talked about being able to save your friend because you had your gun on you. The friend you save might be yourself. Good that our defender had a gun. Better if he had it on his body so he could get it when he needed it. This happened in Pennsylvania, so the driver could have a concealed carry permit and carry in public.

Rob- I bet he will once his wounds heal.

Ben- Yeah, but some wounds don’t heal. I want us to learn from his situation rather than wait until it happens to us or someone in our family.

And another thing, wearing a holster gives you a place to put your gun after you’ve defended yourself. The police won’t try to stop your bleeding until they have your gun put away. Witnesses are also reluctant to help you when you have a gun in your hands. Wear a holster if you can. We can show you how to use it. Honest. Millions of people carry concealed today..but you don’t see them..because, well, its concealed.

Rob- Yeah. We don’t advertise. Let’s go on to our fourth story.

Ben- Forth story? We usually do three stories.

Rob- Our listeners left us a message on the podcast facebook page and asked for a fourth story. If you like more stories, then let us know. If you want a shorter podcast, then let us know that as well.

Rob- Fourth story- Are you armed when you’re working construction outside?

You and your partner are working to repair an underground cable. It is an emergency repair and it is late at night. You’re both standing at the bottom of an excavated hole. Two strangers walk up to your work site. They point their gun at you and demand your money and your tools.

You draw your gun and shoot the robbers. They run away. You call police. They find one of the injured robbers at the end of the street.

Ben- I’m so glad he had a gun because it is really scary to have people pointing a gun at you when you’re down in a hole and can’t run away.

A gunfight is when the bad guys shoot at you and you shoot back. You don’t want to be in a gunfight. Good tactics mean you get a turn to shoot and they don’t. Use good tactics so you’re involved in a shooting where you stop the threat and they don’t get a chance to shoot you.

Rob- How do we change a gunfight into a shooting?

Ben- I’ve worked construction. You’re wearing a tool belt. You have keys and wallets and guns in your pockets. Just like at home when you undress, it takes time to pull all that out and complete the pocket dump.

Wait until the robber is watching your partner or reaching down for your wallet before you reach for your gun. In fact, the robber won’t recognize when you’re reaching for your gun because he expects you to be reaching into your pocket for your wallet.

“Easy, man. Here are the keys, and phone, and wallet. Take ‘em.”

Rob- So wait your turn.

Ben- Know how much time you need to present your gun and take a shot. Act when you see that opportunity. That said, don’t hesitate. You’re looking at a person who threatened to kill you. Don’t talk when it is time to press the trigger.

The good news is that you’re in a hole and under cover. That means that you’re hard to shoot once the bad guys step back a few feet. I like that a lot.

Once you defend yourself, grab your cell phone and call the police. Don’t jump out of the hole and chase the bad guys. You did a good job and didn’t get shot so far, now don’t go and spoil your good work.

Speaking from experience, you probably have to get out of the hole and get a drink of water and pee after the attack. If the scene is safe, then put your gun away and stay there until the police arrive.

Rob- We’ll be back after this message from the Second Amendment Foundation.

Please join and support the Second Amendment Foundation at SAF.org

Exit-  Rob- that wraps up this episode. Ben, thank you for helping us again. Where can we learn more about you?

Ben- Look for me at Modern Self Protection.com.  I live in San Antonio, and most of my classes are in central Texas.  I teach armed self-defense and church security. Listeners can see my class schedule at my website, and they can also listen to my podcast Modern Self-Protection.

Rob- Do you like the longer podcast with four stories? Do you want more personal news from our instructors? Let us know what you think by leaving a message on the podcast facebook page.  We have an inbox there if you don’t want to leave your message in public.

Ben-  We share this podcast with you for free.  All we ask is that you share the podcast with a friend and give us a rating on I-Tunes and Stitcher.  We’re also available on Google Play Music and Spotify.

Rob- I’m Rob Morse.  We’ll be back next week with more Self-Defense Gun Stories.