Episode 52 with Elizabeth Hautman

Welcome to episode 52 of Self-Defense Gun Stories. Firearms instructor Elizabeth Hautman joins us this week. We report and analyze examples of armed civilian defense. Were these gun owners lucky, or were they prepared?

 

Introduction- Rob- Welcome to episode 52 of Self-Defense Gun Stories.  This show is for people who think they might want a firearm for self-defense, and those who already have one.  I’m Rob Morse and we’re joined this week by self-defense instructor Elizabeth Hautman.

Hi, Elizabeth.  How have you been?

Elizabeth- Hi, Rob. Happy birthday to the Self-Defense Gun Stories Podcast.  We’re a year old.

Rob- Thank you. And thank you to our listeners.

Elizabeth-  Let’s not forget them.  Hi to our new listeners, and welcome back to our regular listeners. We report and analyze three examples of armed civilian defense each week.  I hope we inspire you to defend the people you care about.  If you have questions or want to hear more, then please leave us a message on our facebook page.

Elizabeth- Rob, I want you to take this story first, because I have children at home.  Our first story took place this month in Oklahoma.

Rob- First story- Are you armed when you’re at home?  

You’re at home with your children on a Friday afternoon.  You hear sounds coming from the other end of the house.  That wasn’t the kids roughhousing.  Your daughter shouts, “Mom, someone is trying to open the front door.”  You go look, and by the time you get there, the visitor is gone.  Then you hear the sound of breaking glass.  Someone is breaking into your house through your children’s bedroom.  You grab your gun and walk towards the noise.  The kids are out of their room, but a stranger is climbing in through the broken window.

You yell, and then you shoot.  The female intruder runs away, and you call police.

The intruder was cut by the broken glass.  She tried to break into several other houses.  She also tried to break INTO a police car.  She was arrested by the Tulsa police, booked on first-degree burglary, attempted larceny of a vehicle, two counts of possession of a controlled drug and for resisting arrest.  The intruder was taken for medical treatment and then to jail.

Elizabeth-   There are quite a few lessons with this story.  Good job mom/dad for teaching the kids to notice the door issues and report the problem.  The kiddos didn’t open the door – never open the door!  That is a tough lesson for adults as well.  I can communicate through my door, and with the new doorbell technology, I can talk through that.  No need to open the door.

Rob- Good job kids.

Elizabeth-   Good job mom for recognizing the threat and retrieving her firearm.  I would always hope there is time to call the police before you shoot, but that is unrealistic at best.  Maybe if the kids are old enough, they could be on the phone.  Mom must have been hustling too!  She kept it together, because, I know, when my kids are in danger, the stress level and pressure will increase – calm heads must prevail.

Rob- How easy is it for new students to realize that they have a breakin?

Elizabeth- about 80 percent of my students are moms and new moms.  The question comes up again and again, will I have time to get my gun.  I have two answers.  This may sound a like a little much for people new to firearms, but the best place for me to keep my firearm, away from kids and always ready, is on my body.  It is in a secure holster and ready in 2 seconds.  But if that is not your style, and for many it isn’t, a safe, close at hand – like the one in my friend’s kitchen, is a good option as well.  

As a firearms owner it is my responsibility to keep my guns out of the hand of unauthorized people – my kids.  So yes there is a compromise, but the safe is easy open and will still keep my firearm close.

Lastly –  the character of the lady breaking in.  When I have students explain how racking the slide of a shotgun would scare away a criminal – they assume the criminal is of sound mind. This story states that the mom was screaming at the lady coming through the window before she fired her gun.  Any sane person would have high tailed it back out the window with the threat of being shot – this illustrates how deranged, or drugged up an intruder may be.  The intruder went on to even try to break into a police car.  The epitome of crazy.  You can never assume the intruder will think like you do.

Rob- 80 percent of criminals are high on drugs when they attack someone or break in.

Elizabeth- Our second story took place in Texas.

Second Story-  Are you armed at work?  You own a small barbeque restaurant in Houston Texas.  You’re 70 years old, and you’ve run J & S  Jeff’s Kitchen for a while.  It is late Saturday night.  You’ve closed up the place and are walking to your car to drive home home.  Two young men jump out from behind the dumpster and move toward you.  One of them has a gun out and he is pointing it at you.  They yell at you.  You know the drill.  You’ve been robbed before.  That is why you have a gun in your pocket tonight.

You didn’t see the thugs coming out of the darkness.  Now the darkness works to your advantage.  You draw your pistol and fire at the armed robber nearest to you.  He falls to the pavement.  You move and look for his partner.  The other robber is already running away.

It is hard to talk, but you call the police and try to explain what happened.

The police and EMTs arrive.  They take the wounded robber to the hospital where he died.  The police are looking for his partner.

Darkness, physical response

Elizabeth- The restaurant owner had a plan.  It is better to recognize the problem quickly so you can shoot slowly and accurately.  This older man did exactly that.  He had worked out his shoot and move strategy beforehand.

Rob- What can I do to recognize a robbery without on-the-job experience of being robbed?

Elizabeth-  You need to think about it ahead of time, and have a plan.

Rob- Give me an example.  What would I think, and what would I want to do?

Elizabeth- If I see people come out of the dark towards me with a gun, I’ll step to the side, draw my firearm, and defend myself.  Get off the line.  Keep moving, keep looking for bad guy number 2 or 3. Keep looking for cover, or an escape.

You don’t have to have a fire in your home to practice a fire drill – it just takes practice and FORETHOUGHT.  The same with a violent encounter.  Discuss with your spouse – what you might do if you hear an intruder.  Who goes to the kids, who calls the police, who retrieves the firearm.  Discuss with your co-workers – who leaves last, who will walk to the car – do you all leave together?  Work out a safety plan in advance.

Rob- The store owner was robbed at night.. Again.

Elizabeth- We can’t see well in the dark.  But this is important, neither can the criminals.  Action beats reaction.  That is why you need a plan.  A plan lets you take action when your brain locks up.  The animal instincts can kick in and should be expected if you are in fear for your life.  Training and practice can help anyone overcome that fearful paralysis.  The plan is the key.

It is hard for us to identify what is happening in the dark.  It is also hard for the criminals to recognize that their intended victim is defending himself.  Criminals pick their victims because they think they WON’T/CAN’T defend themselves.  Always be ready.  This BBQ owner was, and he had a strategy for survival.  I’m sure he knew the terrain better than the assailants in the dark as well – his advantage.

Local ranges often have simulators.

Another thought might have been to install lights.  Although the previous story illustrated that attackers don’t think like we do, and the light may not have deterred them, but lights help.  

It was also great that the restaurant owner called 911-  I recommend that if you ever get into a situation like this, get to safety, check to see if you are hurt, then call 911.  Remember you are the victim! You have been attacked and you defended yourself.  Give your statement to the police ONLY with your ATTORNEY present!

Elizabeth- Our third story took place in Illinois.

Please support Buckeye Firearms Foundation at https://www.buckeyefirearmsfoundation.org/

~

Third story- Rob- Are you armed when you’re in your car?

You’re driving a friend to her home.  You are 70 years old, and at your age, lots of your friends don’t drive any more.  It is harder to drive at night, but this is a sunny day at 10 in the morning.  Traffic isn’t too bad in Venice, Illinois, just across the river from Saint Louis, Missouri.  You arrive at your destination and stop to say goodby.

A car pulls up next to you.  They ask for directions.  In a moment, the passenger in the other car has a gun out and pointed at you.  He wants you to get out of your car.

You’re armed.  You’re also a vietnam veteran, so you go to work.  You wait for the right moment, and shoot the armed robber closest to you.  You also shoot the robber behind the wheel.  Then you and your passenger move to safety and call police.

The armed robber died at the scene.  The wounded driver was taken to the hospital.  Police told you that the two thugs had probably robbed another driver that morning.  They were wanted for questioning in as many as 20 robberies last year.  Both robbers had long criminal records.

Elizabeth-  Criminals look for older people to rob.  They always look for the easy target.  The distracted mom, the dreamy teen or the old person.  Gray hair can make you a target.  The best way to keep my students safe is to teach them to be aware of their surroundings and not act like a target.  Walk with a purpose, make eye contact, keep your phone in your pocket, look behind you when you leave a store.  These are habits that could make the difference between you being a victim or not.

Rob- So it wasn’t an accident that they chose two older people?

Elizabeth-??  Nope, and this older man had a plan.  Over the years, he had kept his skills sharp, and was alert!  I tell my students to be aware, not paranoid, but know where the exits are, pay attention to the people around you.  This veteran was aware and recognized the threat from the first question – asking for directions.  The questions close the space, can distract you and the excuse of asking a question brought the bad guy right up to the car.  This veteran was not fooled and was ready.

Rob- Broad daylight

Elizabeth-  Daylight, but the thieves couldn’t see into the car.  Think about it – it is difficult to see into a vehicle unless you are right up close.  Also, just because it is daytime, never become complacent.  Bad things happen anytime of day.

Rob- Two criminals versus two victims.

Elizabeth-   Yes there is safety in numbers, and there were two attackers.  Sometimes there are more.  But you can practice and train for an event like this.  Get with an instructor, go through possible scenarios, develop your defensive skills.  

Exit-  Rob- That wraps up this episode. Elizabeth, thank you for helping me today.  Where can our listeners learn more about you?

Elizabeth- I instruct in Colorado Springs.  I teach small classes at my private range in Black Forest.  Students can contact me at Colorado Boots Firearms Instruction.

Rob- Our listeners can share their thoughts with us by leaving a message on the podcast facebook page.  

Elizabeth-  If you liked this show, then you’ll like the other podcasts on the Self-defense radio network.  We create this podcast under a creative commons license, so please share it with a friend, and give us a rating on I-Tunes.

Rob- I’m Rob Morse.  We’ll be back next week with more Self-Defense Gun Stories.

Episode 51 with Ben Branam

Welcome to episode 51 of Self-Defense Gun Stories. Firearms instructor Ben Branam joins us this week. We report and analyze examples of armed civilian defense. Were these gun owners lucky, or were they prepared?

Introduction- Rob- Welcome to episode 51 of Self-Defense Gun Stories.  This show is for  people who think they might want a gun for self-defense, and those who already have one.  I’m Rob Morse and we’re joined this week by self-defense instructor Ben Branam.

How have you been?

Ben- Hi, Rob. Hi to our new listeners, and welcome back to our regular listeners. We report and analyze three examples of armed civilian defense each week.  I hope we inspire you to defend the people you care about.  If you have questions or want to hear more, then please leave us a message on our facebook page.

Ben- Our first story took place this month in Pennsylvania.

First story-  Are you armed at work late at night?  You’re a small Laotian woman.  Your three teenage girls are at home. But you, you manage a laundromat about 15 miles west of Philadelphia.   It is early in the morning and you are at work.  You have the night shift tonight..and every night, seven days a week.  You’re mopping the floor at this hour.  A man walks into your laundromat with his gun drawn.  You’ve been robbed at gunpoint before.  This robber pushes you back toward the back and demands money.  You don’t have any.  Then the robber tells you to strip off your clothes.  He pushes you into a back room.  This time you fight.  You grab his gun and fire.  He leans away from you for a moment and you run.  You don’t stop running until you reach the all-night convenience store across the street.  That is when you notice that you still have your attackers gun in your hand.  The convenience store employees call police.  They arrest your attacker a few blocks away.  His left arm is shattered.  He has a police record.

Ben- Good for her.   It would have been better if she had a gun of her own rather than having to take her attackers gun.  Philadelphia is anti-gun.  But this wasn’t in Philadelphia.  The victim could carry at work.

Rob- You can get a permit in most Pennsylvania counties. They cost some money, but you can get them.  

Ben- What bothers me is the cost.  Some counties make it expensive.  This woman was working hard to support her family by working seven days a week.  Maybe she couldn’t afford a class, and registration, and permits.

Rob- She fought hand to hand.

Ben- Our second story took place in Maryland.

Second Story- Are you armed at home?  You and your husband are at home this morning.  You live in a well to do rural neighborhood about 16 miles east of Washington, DC. You hear someone at your front door.  You turn around and a stranger is standing inside your home.  You ask him who he is, and then tell him to leave.  He doesn’t.  You yell, and then your husband comes toward the front of the house.  He pushed the intruder towards the front door.  The intruder pushes back.  They fight.  Your husband shoots the intruder once in the leg.  The intruder staggers, then grabs a metal bar and tries to attack your husband again.  Your husband shoots his attacker in the head.  The attacker runs from your home.

The attacker is arrested 300 feet from your home.  Police say your attacker is wanted for a number of break ins in the area.  There is a warrant waiting for him when your attacker is released from the hospital.

Ben- Some Maryland counties issue.  Some don’t.  The male homeowner used to work for the FBI, so maybe he was able to get a permit.  He was armed at home in any case.

Rob- It sounds like his wife wasn’t armed.

Ben- (teams vs single attacker)

Rob- This story is unusual in what it didn’t say.  It didn’t say the robber broke in and the homeowners were alerted by the sound.

Ben-  The door was unlocked.

Ben- Our third story took place in Philadelphia.

Listen to Gun Freedom Radio at http://gunfreedomradio.com

Third story- Are you armed when you make deliveries late at night?  You have kids at home, and you’re trying to make ends meet.  You’re delivering pizza at 7 at night.  It is dark at that hour given the time of year.  You get out of your car and three strangers step from the shadows around the building in front of you.  One of them already has a gun pointed at you.  They demand your money and the pizza.  You drop the pizza and run.  You’re shot in the arm and the bullet then hits your hip and the gun in its holster.  You have your permit and are carrying legally.  You duck behind your car.  You make your arm work.  You’re able to draw your firearm.  Fortunately, your gun still works, and you shoot your armed attacker.  All three of them run.

You drive yourself to the hospital and ask the staff to call police.

Ben- Three on one.  They chose the time and place, so they have their guns out.

Rob- He moved, rather than present a standing target.

Ben- (movement)

They would have killed the driver for a couple of pizzas and the 80 dollars he had from his earlier deliveries.  These thugs don’t care about us.

Rob- They would commit murder for a few hours pay.  Do you talk about that to your students?  What is your student’s attitude toward their attackers?  Does their attitude change after the class?

Ben- Sometimes you have to see it to believe it.  I’ve seen it.  I saw it overseas.  We have selfish people here too.  They don’t think of us as human.  We’re insects to these bad people.

Exit- Rob- That wraps up this episode. Ben, thank you for helping me today.  Where can our listeners learn more about you?

Ben- Our listeners can find me at Modern Self Protection.com.  I live in San Antonio, and most of my classes are in central Texas.  Listeners can see my complete class schedule at my website, and they can also listen to my podcast.  

Rob- Our listeners can share their thoughts with us by leaving a message on the podcast facebook page.  

Ben-  If you liked this show, then you’ll like the other podcasts on the Self-defense radio network.  We create this podcast under a creative commons license, so please share it with a friend, and give us a rating on I-Tunes.

Rob- I’m Rob Morse.  We’ll be back next week with more Self-Defense Gun Stories.

Episode 50 with Amber Kunau

Welcome to episode 50 of Self-Defense Gun Stories. Firearms instructor Amber Kunau joins us this week. We report and analyze examples of armed civilian defense. Were these gun owners lucky, or were they prepared?

Rob- Introduction- Welcome to episode 50 of Self-Defense Gun Stories.  This show is for  people who think they might want a gun for self-defense, and those who already have one.  I’m Rob Morse and we’re joined this week by self-defense instructor Amber Kunau.

How have you been?

Amber – Hi, Rob.  I’m… (it has been two months)

Hi to our new listeners, and welcome back to our regular listeners. We report and analyze three examples of armed civilian defense each week.  I hope we inspire you to defend the people you care about.  If you have questions or want to hear more, then please leave us a message on our facebook page.

Rob- Someone asked us why our discussion sometimes sounds scripted.  The answer is pretty simple.  I wasn’t at each of these robberies.  I collect the news accounts from several sources and put them together from the victim’s point of view.

Amber-  Some instructors write down every single word they want to say.  That can sound scripted.  Some instructors just write a few bullet points for the topics they want to cover.  That means that most of the conversation is free-form, and never makes it into the show notes.

Rob- I don’t know how to be both spontaneous and thoughtful.  I edit our half-hour conversation into a 15 minutes episode.  Lots of what we say never makes it onto the podcast.

Amber- So that is how two people who want to make clear concise points talk about self-defense.  Because it is really important information and we don’t want anything to get lost in translation.

Our first story took place last week in Florida.

Rob- First story-  Are you armed as you stop for coffee in the morning?

It is an ordinary work day.  You’re driving to work on your usual route.  Traffic is the same as it was the day before.  You stop for gas, a snack, and coffee at your usual store.  You wait as a customer orders, and you start to place your regular order, just as you have for the last 15 years.

The bell rings and another customer walks in behind you.  He yells, and you and the clerk look up.  The guy is wearing a mask over his face, and he has a gun pointed at you.  The robber yells, “’open the drawer and both of you get back in the cooler.'”  That is what happened in a small town just north of Tampa, Florida.

The clerk moves toward the cooler, and you follow him.  The robber closes the door.  That is when it dawns on you.  No one can hear what happens in this refrigerated room.  No one on the street will see what happens here.  The robber could open the door, and you’d have no time to react.  “We have to get out of here.”  You’re carrying your gun, just as you have for years.  You have your Florida permit.

You draw your handgun and walk out of the cooler.  The armed robber turns toward you.  You shoot, and miss.  The robber doesn’t run.  Instead he charges you and reaches for your gun.  You shoot again, and the robber falls to the floor.

You stand there while the clerk calls the police.

The robber was shot in the hip.  He was taken to the hospital with non life threatening injuries.   The criminal had more than 11 previous arrests, including theft and burglary charges.

Amber- (warning shots)???? Rob I don’t read this as the person firing warning shots I read it as he shot and missed? Am I missing something?  

Rob- Not sure.

Your life is in danger, or it isn’t

You have the right to use lethal force or you don’t.

Every gunshot is potentially fatal.  Every one.  The ones you shoot and the ones shot at you.

Don’t carry a gun in the hope that you will frighten a robber into running away.  That is the wrong reason.  To carry every day, you are willing to kill in order to save a life that criminals put at risk. In self defense shootings there are no winners, only victims. If you can’t handle that then you shouldn’t carry a gun.

Rob- Have you seen new gun owners who are mentally choosing a gun that doesn’t look lethal?  Sometimes I wonder if people choose small guns to conceal, or because they think a small green gun isn’t as lethal as a large black one.

Amber – No I haven’t Rob have you?

Rob- How do warning shots get us killed?

Amber-  You gave the robber time to kill you.  I’m begging you.  Don’t do that.

Rob- Could you run out the back of the store?

Amber- I wasn’t there.  If you could run out without the robber seeing you, then that could be a choice.  My point is that you don’t have to put your life at risk in order to save the life of someone who is trying to kill you.

Rob- Wow.

Amber – Our second story took place in Maryland.

Second Story-  Are you armed at home while you watch TV in the evening?

Two women were watching TV late at night.  They heard someone break the sliding glass window at the back of their home.  They ran upstairs.  One of the homeowners called police.  The second woman headed down stairs with her gun.  The robber had a knife in each hand.  She held the robber for police.

The first homeowner remained on the phone and described the situation to the dispatcher.

Amber – Glad they are OK and had a gun at all. Think about keeping guns on every level of your home. Seconds count. They did the right thing calling the police right away but I question why one of them went back downstairs and put themselves closer to the intruder.

Rob-What do you think a better option would have been?

Amber – If they weren’t going back downstairs to protect a child or another person they should have stayed put upstairs and watched and listened from a distance until the police came. It’s easy to play monday morning quarterback but we want to make sure our listeners really think about these things long and hard.

Amber- Our third story took place in Michigan.


Please join and support the Second Amendment Foundation at SAF.org

Rob- Third story- Are you armed when you’re out to eat with your date?  

You and your date are standing in line at the E&S Carry Out Shrimp Shack in Detroit.  You are looking at the menu and trying to decide what to have for dinner.  A young man comes into the restaurant and tells everyone to hand over their belongings.  You see the robber put his gun in your date’s face.

You throw your keys and wallet on the floor.  The thief turns to pick them up. You draw and fire one time.  The thief drops the gun and falls to the floor.  You kick the robber’s gun away.  Someone calls police.  You have your permit to carry.  You stay on scene and show your permit to police.

The armed citizen said, “I would have given him money if he asked for money.” but the robber wasn’t begging.

The robber was taken to the hospital for treatment of a gunshot wound to the stomach.

Amber- Stopped mass murder. There were the employees and at least four customers in the restaurant.

Rob- So the victim saved himself and everyone else.

Amber-  the victim said too much to police.  Please don’t say anything to the police other than you were in fear for your life, as long as you actually were in fear for your life.

Rob- People want to talk when they are excited.

Exit-  Rob- That wraps up this episode. Amber, thank you for helping me today.  Where can our listeners learn more about you?

Amber- I instruct and compete in Phoenix, Arizona.  Listeners can contact me at Instructor Amber K on my Facebook page  

Rob- Our listeners can share their thoughts with us by leaving a message on the podcast facebook page.  

Amber – If these examples inspired you, then please share them with a friend, and give us a rating on I-Tunes.  If you liked this show, then you’ll like the other podcasts on the Self-defense radio network.

I’m Rob Morse.  Please join us next week for more Self-Defense Gun Stories.

Episode 49 with Tony Simon

Welcome to episode 49 of Self-Defense Gun Stories. Firearms instructor Tony Simon joins us this week. We report and analyze examples of armed civilian defense. Were these gun owners lucky, or were they prepared?

Introduction- Rob- Welcome to episode 49 of Self-Defense Gun Stories.  This show is for people who think they might want a gun for self-defense, and those who already have one.  I’m Rob Morse and we’re joined this week by self-defense instructor Tony Simon.

Tony – Hi, Rob.  Hi to our new listeners, and welcome back to our regular listeners. We report and analyze three examples of armed civilian defense each week.  I hope we inspire you to defend the people you care about.  If you have questions or want to hear more, then please leave us a message on our facebook page.

Our first story took place this month in Pennsylvania.

First story-  Are you armed when you go out to pick-up Chinese food?  A 31 year old man walked across the street to pick up his order for Chinese food.  That done, he tried to return to his Philadelphia home.  A teenager punched the man in the face as he lef the restaurant.  The victim takes the punch, drops his food, and runs across the street trying to avoid a fight.  The robber pursues the victim and catches him across the street.  That is where the victim drew his firearm and shot the robber one time.

The victim stayed at the scene and spoke to police.  He had a license to carry.  The restaurant owner said that two people a week are mugged outside his store.

Tony – Be aware of what is happening in your neighborhood. Robberies by groups of young people have been happening in this area at the rate of  twice a week, according to a witness. If you know this type of crime is happening and you have a description of the suspects then be aware of people that fit the description.

Rob- The victim tried to run.  There wasn’t any question about who started this fight.

Tony -The victim did some things correctly. He dropped what he assumed the attacker wanted and tried to disengage from the confrontation. It seems that he was trying to avoid turning this strong armed robbery into a shooting. He placed rounds on target, making the bad guy stop and he waited for the police to arrive and gave a statement.

Rob- the victim stopped shooting.

Tony- It is hard to think in the moment if you haven’t thought about it ahead of time.

Rob- Could the victim have avoided the assault?

Tony – Our second story took place in Ohio.

Second Story-  Are you armed at home in the evening?  A Cleveland homeowner went out to his car  late friday night.  As he was returning from his driveway and attempting to go back inside when a stranger approached the homeowner.  The robber already had his gun drawn and told the homeowner to go back inside.  That is when another man inside the home saw the victim with his arms raised above his head.  The second homeowner recognized a robbery in progress.  He drew his firearm, and shot the robber. The robber ran.  The victims called police.

Tony – The homeowner got surprised by an armed suspect and complied with his demands. Lucky for him there was someone in the home that recognized what was happening and took action. This criminal had multiple weapons on him and was prepared to use them. Who knows what would have happened inside the home once the bad guy got them behind closed doors. Always let someone know when you are leaving the home, even to run outside really quickly. Not only because of situations like this but other mishaps can happen and without someone in the home knowing anything has happened to you. This could make a bad situation become worse.

For example, it’s cold up here in the Northeast and there are patches of black ice in people’s driveways and it gets dark early. A husband runs out to get something from the car and his wife, whose in another room assumes he’s inside the home. The husband falls and hits his head, is rendered unconscious and lays outside in freezing temperatures until he is discovered a couple of hours later. He could suffer from Hypothermia or Frostbite. This happened to my own father during the winter of 2014. Luckily he was discovered relatively quickly by a passerby and rushed to the hospital.

Rob-  The armed victim had to shoot at night at a moving assailant, with his friend near the target.  Not an easy shot.

Tony – The armed victim had to fire at night with a friend in close proximity to the bad guy. I tell my students that they most likely won’t get into a gunfight on a sunny day with a target that isn’t moving and has no one around him or her. You have to practice things like precision shot placement, shooting in low light and hitting moving targets. That is why we teach these skills and have force on force classes as part of our curriculum.

Tony- Our third story also took place in Ohio.

Please support Coloradans for civil liberties

 

Third story- Are you armed when you’re at home late at night?  A man answered his back door late at night in Columbus, Ohio.  Two men said their car broke down and they needed to use a phone to summon help.  The homeowner stepped outside and was hit with a gun when he tried to return back inside his own home.  The robbers demanded money.  They robbers demanded to search the back of the home.  That is where two children were sleeping.  Instead of opening the back room, the female homeowner grabbed a gun and shot the robbers.  They ran, and the victims called police.  Both robbers sought medical attention and were arrested by police.

Tony-  Don’t open the door to strangers late at night.

Rob- What should the homeowner have done if someone asked for help?

Tony- If they have car problems and you want to help then you can make the call for them. There is no reason to open your door and give them your phone.

Rob- You don’t need a permit to carry at home.

Tony- They both could have been armed and not opened the front door. That would have kept bad men outside their home.

Tony- In the online video of this story the family is upset about this robbery and want to move somewhere safer, where they won’t have to depend on their gun for their safety. No matter where you go you are responsible for your safety and security. You are your own first responder.

Exit-  Rob- That wraps up this episode. Tony, thank you for helping me today.  Where can our listeners learn more about you?

Tony-  I teach firearms safety and armed-self defense courses in New Jersey.  Our listeners can contact me on Facebook at Simon Says Train or at The Second is for Everyone and SimonSaysTrain on Instagram.  We have a class scheduled for March 4th in Pine Brook, New Jersey.  Sign up on our web page, BlackBagResources.com

Rob- Our listeners can share their thoughts with us by leaving a message on the podcast facebook page.  

Tony- We offer you this podcast for free.  We ask you to share them with a friend, and to give us a rating on I-Tunes.

I’m Rob Morse.  Please join us next week for more Self-Defense Gun Stories.

 

Episode 48 with Jenna Meek

Welcome to episode 48 of Self-Defense Gun Stories. Firearms instructor Jenna Meek joins us this week. We report and analyze examples of armed civilian defense. Were these gun owners lucky, or were they prepared?

Introduction- Rob- Welcome to episode 48 of Self-Defense Gun Stories.  This show is for the many people who think they might want a firearm for self-defense, and those who already have one.  I’m Rob Morse and we’re joined this week by self-defense instructor Jenna Meek.

Jenna- Hi, Rob.  

Hi to our new listeners, and welcome back to our regular listeners. We’ll report and analyze three examples of armed civilian defense.  I hope we inspire you to defend the people you care about.  If you have questions or want to hear more, then please leave us a message on our facebook page.

Our first story took place this month in Oklahoma.

First story-  Are you armed at home early in the morning?  Two homeowners were surprised at 6:30 in the morning on New Year’s eve.  They opened their door to find an armed stranger standing in their hallway.  We don’t know if the homeowners in Norman Oklahoma had ever seen the intruder before, but they sure didn’t expect to see him in their home at that hour.  One of the occupants confronted the strange intruder.  The intruder had studied martial arts, and the two men fought.  The second homeowner grabbed a gun and shot the intruder one time.  The intruder broke away from the homeowner and collapsed.

The homeowners called police.  Police said the intruder had a record of criminal convictions including burglary, robbery and domestic abuse-assault and battery.

Jenna- Luckily for the homeowners they outnumbered the bad guy.  It also seems like the physical altercation gave the 2nd homeowner time enough to get a gun into the fight, if they were not already armed.  I think that was a good call since things had gotten physical and the intruder had some martial arts training under his belt.

Rob- It doesn’t say if this was a break in.  Was the door locked?

Jenna- Not sure that the door being locked or not makes a difference.  “Castle Doctrine” laws differ from place to place.  My best advice is know what you are legally allowed to do and act within those boundaries a manner that you can morally live with.  The big point is that you need to be able to explain why you did what you did.  No matter if the door is locked or not. This is just one of the reasons that training on the law is so important!

Rob- I figured a broken door is a poor man’s intruder alarm.

Jenna- Our second story took place in Texas.

Second Story-  Do you have a gun nearby at night?  A homeowner in Tanglewood, Texas woke to the sound of breaking glass.  At 4:30 in the morning he didn’t expect that sound.  He got out of bed and grabbed his gun.  Then the armed homeowner opened his bedroom door.  He saw a man climbing in his livingroom window.  The homeowner fired once and the burglar ran.

Police arrested the intruder a few houses away.

Jenna- Having a gun nearby seems to be key in this scenario.  Sounds like the homeowner was able to diffuse the situation before it was able to get worse.  Do we know if he was struck by the shot that the homeowner fired?

Rob- The homeowner watched the intruder enter his home.  The intruder was several steps inside when the homeowner fired.  The homeowner said it took him that long to be sure the intruder wasn’t someone he knew.

Jenna- The only other way this may have been better is for the homeowner to barricade where he was with his gun and call 911.  However, we don’t know if there were family members in the house (kids) to worry about and it seems like keeping the intruder from getting inside might have been a better option.  Either way, it does not sound as if anyone was hurt in this scenario.  

 

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Jenna- Our third story also took place in Texas.

Third story- Are you armed at home in the evening.  A 74 year old grandmother was watching the evening news.  She stood up from her chair and a robber surprised her and put a gun in her face.  Grandma reached for a gun she keeps next to her chair.  She pointed the gun at the robber and the robber ran.

Jenna-  I love hearing stories about Grandmas defending themselves!  So glad she had quick access to that firearm.  I do wonder if she had such quick access and the intruder was already in the house how she managed to keep the gun away from him though.  Do we know how the gun was kept?  Holster etc…

Rob- It was sitting on a table, so the intruder could have grabbed it as easily as grandma.

Rob- Who explains how to carry a gun for defense.

Jenna- I lead that discussion.  The new students don’t know what they don’t know.

Exit-  Rob- That wraps up this episode. Jenna, thank you for helping me today.  Where can our listeners learn more about you?

Jenna-  I instruct in Castle Rock, Colorado.  

Rob- That is between Denver and Colorado Springs?

Jenna- Listeners can contact me Carry On Colorado Dot Com.  I also have my new book called “Calling the Shots” on Amazon.

Rob- Our listeners can share their thoughts with us by leaving a message on the podcast facebook page.  

Jenna – If these examples inspired you, then please share them with a friend, and give us a rating on I-Tunes.
I’m Rob Morse.  Please join us next week for more Self-Defense Gun Stories.

Episode 47 with David Cole

Welcome to episode 47 of Self-Defense Gun Stories. Firearms instructor David Cole joins us this week. We report and analyze examples of armed civilian defense. Were these gun owners lucky, or were they prepared?

Introduction-  Rob- I’m Rob Morse, and welcome to episode 47 of Self-Defense Gun Stories.  This show is for new gun owners and people who think they might want a firearm for self-defense. We’re part of the Self-Defense Radio Network.   We have self-defense instructor David Cole with us this week.  How have you been, David?

David – Hi, Rob.  

Hi to our new listeners, and welcome back to our regular listeners. We report and analyze three examples of armed civilian defense each week.  I hope we inspire you to defend the people you care about.  If you have questions or want to hear more, then please leave us a message on our facebook page.

Rob, I have to say I’m really excited to talk about these three cases today, because they all have something in common…probably THE most important thing when it comes to self-defense. I’m not going to say what it is just yet, but I’m sure our listeners will figure it out by the end.

Our first story took place this month in Georgia.

First story-  Are you armed as you drive down the street?  A couple were driving in Midtown Atlanta.  The driver in front of them jumped out of his car and and tried to take theirs.  The victims stopped.  The two men struggled.  That is when the female victim drew her gun and shot their attacker.  Police were on the scene in a minute, even with the downtown traffic.  The carjacker had hit dozens of cars in an ongoing hit and run episode.  Police said the carjacker was on drugs.

David – Great job by the passenger in the car! While there is a lot we don’t know…method of carry, etc…what is apparent is that the passenger in the white Porsche acted quickly and decisively. From what we can tell, it seems that the armed passenger was immediately recognize the threat, decide, and then act without hesitation. That sort of awareness and decisiveness can make all the difference. It may have been very apparent in this case that action was warranted and what that action should be, but what gets folks in trouble all too often is that they aren’t able to see what is happening, accept that it is happening, and act in time to stop an attack.

 

David – Our second story took place just a few miles away, in Cobb County, Georgia.

Second Story-  Are you armed at work?  The store owner and his employee had opened the store only a few minutes earlier.  They already had two customers at Dixie Gun and Pawn.  Two more men entered, but these men were wearing ski-masks and carrying guns.  

“The robbers said, get down on the floor. Get down on the floor or I’ll kill you.”  

Then the robber fired his gun.  The owner drew his firearm and shot one of the robbers.  The second robber ran.  The wounded robber died at the scene.

The store owner said he hated to kill another man.  He had been burglarized many times.  The other store employee and the two customers were uninjured.

David – This is another example of how decisive action made the difference.  Had they been able to establish dominance, the two armed robbers would have been very difficult to overcome. They made it apparent that they were willing to kill to complete their crime, and had they established that dominance over the four people in the store…owner and two customers…they certainly could have killed them all. But the owner acted immediately, before they could establish that dominance…absolutely critical.

Rob- The owner had a plan.

 

David- Our third story took place in North Carolina.

Support Buckeye Firearms Foundation at https://www.buckeyefirearmsfoundation.org/

Third story- Are you armed as you arrive home after work?

A Wilmington woman arrived home after work at 11 in the evening.  She had a cup in one hand with her keys.  She was talking to her dad on the phone.  She unlocked her apartment door when a man pushed her inside.

The robber choked her.  He pushed her into her bedroom and tied her up.  The robber then searched the apartment.  The victim got her hands free and grabbed the gun she keeps beside her bed.  She shot the robber once in the chest.  The robber ran, but collapsed inside the apartment.  The victim called police.

She had the gun for over a year, but this was the first time she’d fired it.

The robber was a felon with over a dozen convictions.

David- Here’s another case where mindset and decisiveness come into play, in a slightly different way. While our armed citizen in this case did prevail…and we’re glad of it…there are some lessons we could take away.

Rob- She was successful, but what can we learn.

David- Some points for improvement are the fact that she wasn’t armed at the initial contact. Her gun was in her apartment, rather than on her person. It’s always going to be better to have it on you than not, if at all possible. It also sounds like although she had her keys in hand and another person on the line as she got out of her car and approached her home, she also had a drink in her hand…sounds like her hands were kind of full. Maybe unavoidable, maybe wouldn’t have made a difference…but definitely not optimal.

Rob-  What if the robber had tied her up in the living room?

David- But we should note that when she had the opportunity to act, she saw the opportunity and took decisive action to save her own life. Rather than give in to what could have been a tragic outcome, she worked to improve her position by getting free of her restraints, and then made a forceful and committed move. It’s a much better option than hoping the predator who just assaulted you and tied you up is going to let you live.

Rob- None of our victims thought they would be attacked.

David- In the unlikely case that anyone has not figured out the common thread in our three cases today…it’s MINDSET.  Recognizing a threat for what it is, and quickly making the decision to act. All three of our armed citizens today took prompt, decisive action to save their own lives in situations where even a moment’s hesitation could have been tragic.

Exit-  Rob- That wraps up this episode. David, thank you for helping me today.  Where can our listeners learn more about you?

David- I teach in the Cincinnati area.  They can contact me at Aegis Solutions for firearms instruction.  I also write at the Blackman with a Gun website.  Our listeners can reach me at either site.

Rob- Our listeners can share their thoughts with us by leaving a message on the podcast facebook page.  

David – If these examples inspired you, then please share them with a friend.  Would you also give us a rating on I-Tunes.

I’m Rob Morse.  Please join us next week for more Self-Defense Gun Stories.

Episode 46 with Robyn Street

Welcome to episode 46 of Self-Defense Gun Stories. Firearms instructor Robyn Street joins us this week. We report and analyze examples of armed civilian defense. Were these gun owners lucky, or were they prepared?

Introduction- Rob- Welcome to episode 46 of Self-Defense Gun Stories where we talk to people who think they might want a gun for self-defense.  I’m Rob Morse and we’re joined this week by self-defense instructor Robyn Street.  How have you been, Robyn?

Robyn – Hi, Rob.  We have been very busy with classes and range events. We have a night shoot coming up.  This gives our students a chance to train in daylight, twilight and in the dark.  It is important to prepare for any lighting situation. We are conducting training classes prior to the event to prepare the students.  We are using blue guns to teach them the skills that they will need. This  training allows them to learn the skills, practice dry fire at home, participate in supervised drills and scenarios at the range. Great opportunity.

Hi to our new listeners, and welcome back to our regular listeners from the Self-Defense Radio Network.  We report and analyze three examples of armed civilian defense each week.  I hope we inspire you to defend the people you care about.  If you have questions or want to hear more, then please leave us a message on our facebook page.

Our first story took place this month in Georgia.

Rob- First story-  Are you armed at work?  A convenience store clerk saw two men walk into his store at 3:30 in the morning.  Even at that early hour on a weekday, there were 5 people playing video games in the back of the store in Cartersville, Georgia.  The two visitors were wearing masks and carrying guns.  The clerk’s name was James, and he ran back to the office room behind the counter.  This room has a solid door and is where most stores keep and count their money.  The robbers were right behind him.  As James tried to close the door, the robbers struggled to push it open.

James reached around the door and shot the closest robber.  The robbers fired back as they ran.  The wounded robber was left behind by his two partners.  The robber died by the time police arrived.

Robyn – Avoid gas stations after dark or in sketchy areas (tank management)  

Rob- James stopped mass murder. (6 potential victims.)

Robyn – 5 people playing video games at 3:30 am.  Distracted!.

Robyn – Training video – run, hide, fight.  James did just that.  Glad James planned ahead for the fight and had a firearm.  Previsualization – had a plan.

Rob- James had a lot to think about, and probably more to handle than he could think about at the time.

Robyn – Situational awareness gains time to retreat and to get the response plans started.

Robyn – retreat to back room might be a good idea – less likely to hurt what you can’t see.  Construction of “safe room” is important.  Quality, construction materials, contents

Robyn – when I see the clerks encased behind the bulletproof glass I think good for them, how bad is this neighborhood and how quickly can I get out of here.

Robyn – James did not get to room quick enough to get the door shut and secured.  Two armed men within a foot of each other staring eye-to-eye.  Depending on the construction of the door either one could have shot through the door.  

Robyn – James reaching around the door.  How secure was his grip? Potentially disarmed.

Rob- And James faced three attackers.

Robyn – James defended his life so good for him.

Robyn – After the event was over there were a few problems.

Robyn – Don’t try to count the shots.  Leave details for the investigators.

Robyn – Don’t get interviewed by reporters.

Robyn – Save your statement for your lawyer.  Be prepared to give a statement to the police after you have had an appropriate amount of time.  Police have time (around 48 hours) for a sleep cycle and to dump all the additional adrenaline.  Be prepared for effects of stress and adrenaline on the body.    

Robyn –  Since he was carrying a firearm for self-defense, I hope that he is a member of an organization like the Armed Citizens Legal Defense Network.

Robyn – Important to prepare for the physical battle and the potential legal battle.  We are hosting Andrew Branca again this year.  Law of Self Defense seminar.

Robyn – Our second story took place in Texas.

Second Story-  Are you armed at home?  A homeowner was in the back of his house at about 7:30 on christmas morning.  He heard an unusual sound of a door closing.  It is an ordinary sound, but this homeowner lives alone, and santa uses the chimney.  The homeowner grabbed his gun and opened the door to his bedroom.  That is when the homeowner saw a stranger wearing a santa hat.  The homeowner raised his gun and santa ran out the garage door, the way he’d entered.  Police found the intruder nearby.

Robyn – Probably the last thing he expected at 7:30 in the morning on Christmas.

Rob- How many gun owners have an unloaded gun and think they are protected.  

Robyn- If that is how you store your gun, then I want you to time yourself.  How long does it take to lock your door, get your gun, your ammunition, and load your weapon?  Let us know, and we’ll post the times on this podcast.  I bet it takes you over a minute.

Robyn – Shame on him for leaving his garage open.  Make your home a hard target that is not worth the risk or effort.

Robyn – Homeowner was prepared.  He had a firearm to protect himself.

Robyn – Homeowner stayed in control.  He evaluated the intruder and decided to give verbal command to get out of his house.  It worked so no shots were fired.  He let the police do their job.

Robyn- Our third story took place in Alabama, but first we have a message from the Armed Citizens Legal Defense Network.

Become a member of ACLDN and use the promotion code “Paul” at https://armedcitizensnetwork.org/

 

Third story- Do you carry a firearm with you when you’re driving you car and need to stop for gasoline?  

A man stopped to get gas in Heflin, Alabama.  The customer paid for his purchase inside the store and was walking out when he ran into an unavoidable problem.  It was about 11 at night, and there stood a man dressed in black from head to toe and wearing a mask.  Then the man in black pulled a gun and said “Don’t leave, stay where you’re at or I’ll kill you guys.”  This was a robbery.

The customer was armed.  He drew his own firearm and shot at the robber twice.  The robber drove off.  The armed customer followed him outside.  The robber drove toward the armed customer, and the customer shot at the car.

Robyn – Back at a gas station at night.

Robyn – Police said that the armed robbers watched the establishment from a parked car.  If you see something that concerns you call the police.  Situational awareness, evaluation and decision making are all important.

Robyn – Compliance does not guarantee safety.

Robyn – Customer tried to get away told to stay or would be killed.  He had fulfilled the elements to be justified to defend himself.  He was prepared.

Robyn – After the armed robber left the store, I would prefer it if the customer would have let him go and called the police.  

Robyn – shooting at the car could endanger bystanders, bullets may not react as expected when they hit a car.  A vehicle defense class is very eye opening experience.

Robyn – In this case, the car was used as a weapon against our good Samaritan.  He needed to move to get objects between himself and the oncoming car.  Concrete posts on parking spots in from to the convenience store or the building itself.

Robyn – If the good Samaritan had stayed inside and called the police, the second confrontation may not have occurred in the parking lot.  As soon as you can safely call the police do it.  Let them track down the bad guy.  

Exit-  Rob- That wraps up this episode. Robyn, thank you for helping me today.  Where can our listeners learn more about you?

Robyn-  I teach in Naples Florida, and our listeners can find me at Step by Step Gun Training.com.  They can also contact us on Facebook.  We provide custom training courses as well as standard group classes.  We have a night shoot on January 7th and we have Andrew Branca coming to town to teach the law of self-defense on the 28.

Rob- Our listeners can share their thoughts with us by leaving a message on the podcast facebook page.  

Robyn – If these examples inspired you, then please share them with a friend.  Would you also give us a rating on I-Tunes.

I’m Rob Morse.  Please join us next week for more Self-Defense Gun Stories.

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Episode 45 with Jeff Street

Welcome to episode 45 of Self-Defense Gun Stories. Firearms instructor Jeff Street joins us this week. We report and analyze examples of armed civilian defense. Were these gun owners lucky, or were they prepared?

Introduction Rob- Welcome to episode 45 of Self-Defense Gun Stories.  This podcast is part of the Self-Defense Radio Network.  I’m Rob Morse and we’re joined this week by self-defense instructor Jeff Street.  How have you been, Jeff?

Jeff – Hi, Rob.  Anything new in your gun/training world?

Rob- Jeff.  Finally got tax stamps for suppressors we bought 9 months prior.  We are already using the 22 suppressors for training.  

Jeff- Hi to our new listeners, and welcome back to our regular listeners. We report and analyze three examples of armed civilian defense each week.  I hope we inspire you to defend the people you care about.  If you have questions or want to hear more, then please leave us a message on our facebook page.

Our first story took place this month in Florida.

Rob- First story-  Are you armed on your way to the airport?

An Uber driver picked up an early morning fare and started on his way to the Fort Lauderdale airport.  There aren’t many cars on the road at 5:30 in the morning.  Their small car was cut off by a Dodge Caravan.  The larger car slammed on their brakes, and the two occupants got out of the Caravan.  The driver was armed, and walked toward the Uber driver.  This was a robbery, and the robber demanded the driver’s wallet, phone and keys.  The driver was a licensed concealed carry holder in the state of Florida.

News reports are not clear if the Uber driver remained in his car or if he got out.  The driver shot the armed robber four times.  That is when the robber fell to the ground.  The other robber ran, and the armed victim stopped firing.  The surviving robber drove away.  Neither the driver nor the passenger were injured.

The robbery vehicle was an overdue rental car.  The two robbers had robbed someone else an hour earlier.

Jeff These are talking points.  I will elaborate in conversation.

  1. Stay in your car.  Drive away.  Blast your horn. Call 911.  Push the panic button on your key fob.  Emergency Flashers.  Side windows with protective film.
  2.  Have you practiced drawing your gun from a seated position.  Do you own a blue gun?  How to deal with a seat belt.  
  3. Why get out of the car?  

Jeff- Our second story took place in New Mexico

Second Story-  Do you have a firearm nearby when you’re in bed?  A naked man tried to break into several Albuquerque homes late at night.  The intruder broke the bedroom window of an elderly couple’s home.  The couple was asleep in their bed.  The male homeowner grabbed a gun he keeps near the bed and shot the intruder several times.  The intruder ran.  He jumped several fences before neighbors saw him and reported him to police.

The intruder was captured and taken to a local hospital for treatment.  He had been drinking and was out on parole.  

The elderly homeowner had difficulty answering the police because he couldn’t hear their questions.

Jeff- These are talking points:

  • Our homeowner shot the intruder several times.  Then the intruder jumped several fences.  Getting shot in this case was only a deterrent.  Our homeowner was lucky.  We call that a psychological stop.  He was shot several times with better training maybe our homeowner would have better shot placement and less shots needed and a physical stop.
  • Flash light.
  • Team tactics.
  • Harden your home to help deter criminals and slow them down.  Window film, alarm system, lighting, door locks, security cameras, bolt your safe to the floor.

Jeff- Our third story took place in Georgia, but first we have a message from the Armed Citizens Legal Defense Network.

Become a member of ACLDN and use the promotion code “Paul” at https://armedcitizensnetwork.org/

Rob- Third story- Are you armed when you are shopping or at work?  It is the holiday season.  A nail salon was very busy this evening with 10 employees and many customers.  Two armed robbers entered the store located in a strip mall west of Atlanta.  The robbers presented their firearms.  They threatened the employees and the customers.  They demanded money and other valuables.  One of the store employees was armed.

He shot one of the robbers.  Both robbers ran.  One drove away and left his wounded accomplice in a stand of trees.  Police dogs found the robber and his gun.  He was arrested and police are looking for his accomplice.

Rob- Will complying with the robber and giving him your money buy your safety?

 

  • You don’t get to know that.  What you get to know is that the criminal has threatened you with serious bodily injury or death.  Compliant people are murdered every year.
  • Now accurate shooting is more important.  You don’t have time to miss and you can’t afford to hit an innocent bystander.  Get with a trainer that can get you  to a competent level of speed and accuracy.
  • Blue guns are great for training to shoot from a seated position.  You probably don’t want to stand up and then draw your gun as you will draw attention to yourself.  In a case like this it would probably be ok if the 1st clue the criminal has that you are armed is the criminal getting shot.
  • Team tactics training for employees.

Exit-  Rob- That wraps up this episode. Jeff, thank you for helping me today.  Where can our listeners learn more about you?

Jeff Our listeners can contact me at

Rob- Our listeners can share their thoughts with us by leaving a message on the podcast facebook page.  

Jeff- If you like this podcast, then please share it with a friend and give us a rating on I-Tunes.

I’m Rob Morse.  Please join us next week for more Self-Defense Gun Stories.

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Episode 44 with Ben Branam

Welcome to episode 44 of Self-Defense Gun Stories. We report and analyze examples of armed civilian defense each week. Firearms instructor Ben Branam joins us this week. Were these gun owners lucky, or were they prepared?

 

Introduction- Rob- Welcome to episode 44 of Self-Defense Gun Stories.  This podcast is part of the Self-Defense Radio Network.  I’m Rob Morse and we’re joined this week by self-defense instructor Ben Branam.  How have you been, Ben?

Ben – Hi, Rob.   Hi to our new listeners, and welcome back to our regular listeners. We report and analyze three examples of armed civilian defense each week.  I hope we inspire you to defend the people you care about.  If you have questions or want to hear more about a topic, then please leave us a message on our facebook page.

Our first story took place this month in Florida.

Rob, first story-  Are you armed at home?  A homeowner in Sunrise, Florida was home alone on Monday morning.  He saw three strangers pull into his driveway.  The strangers got out of their car and then went around the side of the house.  The homeowner called 911 and retrieved his shotgun.  The three burglars shattered a sliding glass door at the back of the home and walked in while the homeowner was on the phone with the police dispatcher.

The homeowner was afraid that the intruders would arm themselves with some of the guns he keeps stored around his home.  He stepped toward the back of the home and fired four times.  He only hit his target once.

Two of the robbers ran.  One was transported to the hospital and where he died.  His two accomplices were arrested and charged with homicide during the commission of a burglary.

Ben-  Common crime, uncommon response.

Rob-  Three attackers against one defender.

Rob- If you have guns stored around your house so they are close to you, then they are close to intruders also.

Ben – Our second story took place in Missouri.

Rob, second story-  Are you armed at work?  A 38 year old customer walked into Poor Boy’s gas station in Kansas City, Missouri.  At 2:30 in the morning, the customer bought a candy bar and put a pocket full of change on the counter.  As the clerk counted the money, the customer drew a firearm and yelled, “Give me all the money!”

The clerk looked up, drew his own firearm, and shot the robber twice in the shoulder.  The robber then yelled. “Don’t shoot.  It’s only a toy gun.”

The robber tried to crawl away, but the store clerk blocked the entrance until police arrived.  The robber had prior convictions for shoplifting, burglary, drug possession and parole violation.

Ben-  One on one is unusual for a robbery. You need a plan.  It might be as simple as, if I see a lethal threat, then I’ll defend myself if I can’t run.

Rob- When do your students learn to present a firearm that is concealed on their body?

Ben- I teach intermediate students to present from a holster.

 

Ben- Our third story took place in Minnesota.

Rob- Are you armed when you drop off toys at charity donation sites this holiday?  We’ll learn the details after this commercial announcement.

Become a member of ACLDN and use the promotion code “Paul”

At https://armedcitizensnetwork.org/

Third story- Are you armed when you drop off toys for charity?  A security guard walked inside and outside the donations center for a charity called Samaritan’s Purse.  One of only eight processing centers in the US, this site handles thousands of shoe boxes each filled with about $25 worth of toys.  The toys are distributed to needy children between the ages of 2 to 14 years old.

The guard was attacked when he crossed the parking lot just after midnight.  A masked and armed man attacked the guard.  The guard fought back and shot his attacker.  The guard ran and called police.  Police found the attacker dead in the parking lot.  The police said that every indication is that the guard acted in self-defense.

Is this unusual?

Ben-  Charity drop off sites are often targeted by criminals. Criminals also hunt for victims in parking lots late at night.

Rob- Concealed carry from under a coat in the wintertime.

Rob- defense at night.

Exit-  Rob- That wraps up this episode. Ben, thank you for helping me today.  Where can our listeners learn more about you?

Ben-  I live in San Antonio, Texas.  I do some traveling as I teach classes, but most of them are in central Texas.  Our listeners can contact me at Modern Self Protection.com  to see my class schedule and listen to my podcast. Unfortunately, I lost my day job during the week so I’m expanding the classes I’m doing.  

Rob- Our listeners can share their thoughts with us by leaving a message on the podcast facebook page.  

Ben – If these examples inspired you, then please share them with a friend.  Would you also give us a rating on I-Tunes.

I’m Rob Morse.  Please join us next week for more Self-Defense Gun Stories.

Support Buckeye Firearms Foundation at https://www.buckeyefirearmsfoundation.org/

 

 

Episode 43 with Elizabeth Hautman

Welcome to episode 43 of Self-Defense Gun Stories. We report and analyze examples of armed civilian defense each week. Firearms instructor Elizabeth Hautman joins us this week.

Introduction- Rob- Welcome to episode 43 of Self-Defense Gun Stories.  This podcast is a proud part of the Self-Defense Radio Network.  I’m Rob Morse and we’re joined this week by self-defense instructor Elizabeth Hautman.   This is our first episode together, so please tell our listeners a little bit about you.

Elizabeth- Hi, Rob.  Thank you so much for having me.  I am a mom of two wonderful young men.  I love teaching firearms safety and concealed carry classes in Colorado Springs.  I designed my classes for new and timid shooters.  We increase their comfort and confidence with firearms in a few hours.

Rob- Welcome to the podcast.  You also worked with the NRA in your state.  Thank you for that.

Elizabeth- You’re welcome.  I listened to the podcast, and now I get to contribute.  Hi to our new listeners, and welcome back to our regular listeners. We report and analyze examples of armed civilian defense each week.  We bring you the news you don’t hear anywhere else, and I hope we inspire you to defend the people you care about.  If you have questions or want to hear more, then please leave us a message on our facebook page.

Elizabeth- Our first story took place this month in Florida.

Rob- First story- Are you armed in the bathroom?  A man was visiting his girlfriend’s apartment in Jacksonville, Florida.  He went the the bathroom at 2:30 in the morning when the woman’s ex-boyfriend decided to force open the front door.  The current boyfriend opened the bathroom door and saw the ex pointing a gun at his girlfriend.  The intruder threatened to kill the woman.  The boyfriend fired his handgun several times.  The armed intruder fled the scene and ran into his ex-girlfriend’s car as he left.

Police found him driving slowly and pulled him over.  The wounded robber was taken to the hospital for treatment and charged with armed burglary and aggravated assault.

Elizabeth- Kudos to the boyfriend in the bathroom.  He was ready for anything.  I would think he heard a ruckus and came to his girlfriend’s aid.  He assessed the deadly threat and took action.   In an extremely, high stress, dangerous situation, a defender needs to understand that their body may not react like it might on a calm day on the range.  It takes practice and repetition to be an effective protector and counteract your body’s natural fear reaction.

Rob-  What happens during that stressful situation, and when do you tell our students about that reaction?

Elizabeth – There are many things that may happen to your body, including loss of fine motor control and time distortion.  I fully cover your body’s reaction and how to counteract that in my Conceal Carry Class.  

Elizabeth-   When the threat ended, the boyfriend ceased firing.  That is another great point from this story.  He let the bad guy “get away.”  He defended himself and girlfriend and when the bad guy “fled the scene,” he let the police take over.  The boyfriend understood his responsibility as a firearms owner.

Rob- What difference does training make?

Elizabeth – Training is everything.  It is about muscle memory it’s about mental focus.  When you are driving on ice and your car starts to spin, turning into the spin has to be automatic, there isn’t time to figure it out.  Just like in a defensive situation, manipulating your firearm, aiming, firing and assessing when the threat has ended has to be automatic.   Keeping your wits about you is the difference good practice can make.

Elizabeth- There is nothing in this article that states that the good guy was a  Concealed Carry Permit holder.   I work with many people who may never carry, so they say they don’t need the Conceal Carry Class.  It is those type of students who may need training the most.  When you use your firearm, at home OR in public, just like when you sit in the driver’s seat of the car, you must know the “rules of the road.”  On more than one occasion, a homeowner with a gun, at home, broke the rules and got in trouble.  So it is important whether you carry outside the home or not, to learn from other people’s mistakes.  We train for the possibility not the probability of a violent encounter.

Rob- who called the police, and what did they tell them?

Elizabeth – ALWAYS call the police when you draw your firearm.  Victims call the police, bad guys don’t.  Give 911 a description of the bad guys and let them do their job.

Elizabeth- Our second story took place in Indiana.

Rob- Second Story- Are you armed when you meet to complete a deal online?  We conduct commerce by e-mail and voice using our phones.  A man was lured to a home early Sunday morning.  It isn’t clear if the intended victim was an Uber driver, a Waiter delivery person, or if he responded to an online advertisement.  It is clear that a 15 year old boy pulled a gun when the unsuspecting visitor walked up to the door of this Indianapolis home.  The attacker and his friends then began to search the victim and empty his pockets.  They found more than they expected.

The intended victim was armed.  He drew his own gun and shot his attacker.  The victim ran to a safe location, and called police.  The wounded attacker was transported to a local hospital where he died.  The police interviewed the victim and released him.

Elizabeth-   First –  If you feel the situation you are walking into is shady, or too good to be true, say no.  No job is worth the risk. Trust and listen to that little voice inside, your intuition, your instinct.  

Rob-   But they ordered a pizza?

Elizabeth-  Second, bring a friend and meet in a public place, in daylight hours.  In my town, the police station has a special parking area for e commerce trade.  All of your transactions can be completed under the cameras of the police station.

Rob- I like that idea.  You mentioned concealed carry earlier.  Tell me more about that.

Elizabeth- My students learn what to do and how to do it.  That means they can defend themselves quickly and accurately.  The first time they present their firearm from a holster it may take us a few minutes.  Later, they will do it in two seconds.  

Rob- That is a huge improvement.

Elizabeth- it is, but they have to have those skills before they need them.  There isn’t time for “on the job training” in self-defense.

Elizabeth- Lastly, I’m asking our listeners the same thing I ask my students.  Please carry, be ready, and have a plan.  This man was not going to be a victim and was prepared to defend his life.  

Elizabeth- Our third story took place in California.

Become a member of ACLDN and use the promotion code “Paul” at https://armedcitizensnetwork.org/

Rob- Third story- Are you armed at work?  A convenience store clerk couldn’t believe his eyes. This happened in Fresno, California, and the clerk saw a man and a woman enter the store at 2 in the morning.  The man pulled a rifle from behind his coat and demanded money.  The clerk drew his gun and fired.  The thieves ran.  The clerk called police who looked at the surveillance video.  Door to door, the robbers were in the store less than eight seconds.

That isn’t a lot of time.

Elizabeth-  Eight seconds. Wow,  a fast draw from concealed on your body is less than 2 seconds.  It takes me 60 seconds just to find my keys in my purse.  It took us longer than that to describe the story.  Look at what the clerk did here.  To be aware enough to quickly recognize a threat, and defend yourself took courage and planning.  The clerk thought about this before it happened.

Rob-  You have to think ahead, just as you have to think ahead when you arrive at your car and look for your keys.  Otherwise you fumble around as you put away your phone.

Elizabeth-   That is us.  I am often asked by students if they should carry a loaded gun with a round in the chamber.

Rob- That means they are carrying a gun that is ready to fire?

Elizabeth- Right.  The gun is ready to do work.  I tell them “Yes, when you are confident enough to do it.”  The reason is time.  This lethal encounter took 8 seconds door to door and you don’t have an extra 1.5 seconds to put that round in the chamber.  Time is what you need in a defensive situation, and it is most often what you have least of.  

Rob- Time to think, or time to act?

Elizabeth-  You don’t have time for anything except to save your life right now.

Rob- How do your students react when you tell them they can save their lives?

Elizabeth- They don’t say a lot, but it shows on their faces.

Rob- What do their expressions tell you?

Elizabeth- Everything they ever learned watching television was incorrect, they realize that, “I am my own first responder!”

Elizabeth- Another question I am asked by students is ‘What size firearm should I buy?’ Well in this case, whatever pistol you brought to work that day, that gun was up against a rifle.  I recommend that the best firearm for you is the one you are will carry ALL THE TIME and are comfortable shooting accurately.  It doesn’t sound like the bad guys even got off a shot thanks to the quick thinking clerk.  

Rob- What mistakes do students make when they buy their first gun?  (Tell me about new gun owners who bought the wrong gun for them, too heavy to carry, too large to conceal, too small to handle, to powerful for its size)

Elizabeth-  Maybe because I grew up with a family in the automobile business, I use a lot of car analogies, everyone wants to buy a Large Suburban that  is safe, which gets the gas mileage of a Prius, and costs what a 1998 Camry does.  It is the same with firearms.  

Elizabeth- You have to choose a firearm that fits your hand, with the most stopping power, that you are willing to carry.  Many student’s first gun, just plain doesn’t fit their hands, but .  smaller size doesn’t compute to less recoil either.  I encourage my students to try a couple of firearms, take a class and evaluate how they are going to carry in the future.  And, I joke that the first gun, may not be the last. So don’t get caught up in over thinking the purchase, just get the gun and practice.

Exit-  Rob- That wraps up this episode. Elizabeth Hautman, thank you for helping me today.  Where can our listeners find out more about you?

Elizabeth- I instruct in Colorado Springs.  I teach small classes at my private range in Black Forest.  Students can contact me at Colorado Boots Firearms Instruction.

Rob- The link is in our show notes.  Our listeners can share their thoughts with us by leaving a message on the podcast facebook page.  

Elizabeth- If these examples inspired you, then please share them with a friend.  Give us a rating on I-Tunes.

I’m Rob Morse.  Please join us next week for more Self-Defense Gun Stories.

Listen to Gun Freedom Radio at http://gunfreedomradio.com