Episode 32 with David Cole

Welcome to episode 32 of Self-Defense Gun Stories. We report and analyze examples of armed civilian defense each week.

Introduction- Rob- We’re back with episode 32 of Self-Defense Gun Stories.  This podcast is part of the Self-Defense Radio Network.  I’m Rob Morse and we’re joined this week by self-defense instructor David Cole.  How have you been, David?David Cole

David – Hi, Rob.  Hi to our new listeners, and welcome back to our regular listeners. Together, we report and analyze examples of armed civilian defense.  We inform you about the news, and I hope we inspire you to defend the people you care about.

Our first story took place this month in Georgia.

First story-  Are you armed at home?  Police now believe it was a robbery, but a man and woman didn’t know what to believe when they were jolted awake.  They heard three man breaking in the front door of their Atlanta area home at 4 in the morning.

The woman immediately grabbed her gun.  She then walked towards the sounds and saw three man inside her home near the front door.  They were armed.  The female homeowner immediately shot at the intruders.  Two of the robbers ran and shot at the home as they left..  One of them tried to run, but died at the scene.  There were no other occupants of the home.

What is the first skill she needs, and where would she learn them?

David – Some “next steps” gun handling training

David – Of course, the big question is are you armed and home? Where is your gun?

David – Do you lock your doors? What if they had not had to kick the door? Would she have heard them in time?

David – She went to investigate. Should she have? I don’t think this is as simple as it seems. We are always taught to not search, but to bunker down and call police. Is this realistic? Is this ALWAYS the right answer? (FLASHLIGHT!)

David – Our second story took place in Florida.

Second Story-  Are you armed at work and on the street.. Or both?   

An employee at the Walmart in Sunrise, Florida was the victim of an attempted robbery.  The victim was waiting in his car before he could clock in.  A young man came up the the victim at about 4 AM and showed the victim a gun.  The robber then demanded that the victim turn over all his possessions.  The robber probably didn’t think that own of those possessions was a loaded gun.  The victim shot the robber several times.  He then ran into the store and asked for help.  Police pronounced the robber dead at the scene.  A victim’s sister said that their entire family has their permits.  A co-worker was surprised that the victim was armed.  Quote, “He’s a pretty mellow guy. If you ever get to meet him and talk to him, you wouldn’t even expect him to be able to defend himself like that because he’s very quiet and friendly.”

David – Not clear if he had to shoot from inside the car or outside.

Rob-  If you were in that situation, would you try to leave the car or would you try to stay inside your car?

David – I think that is hard to say, and is going to depend on the situation. While it might be difficult to draw while seated in a car (you should practice this), getting out takes time. That said, it also makes you a moving target, and movement can work to your advantage. Maybe an even better answer is to simply drive away? Do you leave your car locked while sitting in it? Running?

Important to note that this is one of the problems with employers who don’t allow guns on property, especially in states without “parking lot” laws.

David- Our third story took place in New Mexico.

acldn-logo

Armed Citizen Legal Defense Network at https://armedcitizensnetwork.org/  The tracking code is 15625 or “Paul Lathrop.

Third story- Are you armed when you’re at home?  An 70 year old man was at his home just outside Albuquerque, New Mexico.  He walks with a cane.  Neighbors said he has difficulty moving.  Quote, “..a strong breeze would push him over. “He wasn’t expecting visitors when a man stranger broke into his home at 5:30 in the afternoon.  The old man was expecting trouble and he wasn’t a pushover despite his age.  The surprised homeowner was hit on the head with a bamboo pole, and with a hockey stick.  The intruder was shot once in the chest and died at the scene.

David-  Sounds like the homeowner had a gun with him.  Who called the police?  Even if a neighbor calls the police before you do, you want to call as soon as you can.

Rob- This is why you lock your doors.

David- While in this case, the bad guy wasn’t calling anybody, in about 92% of armed self defense cases, no shots are fired. That means there is likely to be more than one version of the story told to police, and you want to get your version in first. The first caller is going to be considered the “victim”…if you are the second caller, or don’t call at all, you may well be considered to be the “suspect.” Just ask Paul Lathrop!

David- Also interesting to note the time of day…5:30 in the afternoon. It’s easy to envision the late night intruder, but what about in the middle of the day? Again, are your doors locked? Do you open the door for unexpected visitors? Might want to think about that.

 

Exit-  Rob- That wraps up this episode. David, thank you for helping me today.  Where can our listeners find out more about you?

David – I teach in the Cincinnati area.  They can contact me at Aegis Solutions for firearms instruction.  I also write at the Blackman with a Gun website.  Our listeners can reach me at either site.

Rob- Our listeners can share their thoughts with us by leaving a message on the podcast facebook page.  

David – If these examples inspired you, then please share them with a friend and give us a rating on I-Tunes.

I’m Rob Morse.  Please join us next week for more Self-Defense Gun Stories.CPRC_webPlease support the Crime Prevention Research Center at Crime Research.org

 

Episode 31 with Robyn Street

Welcome to episode 31 of Self-Defense Gun Stories. We report and analyze examples of armed civilian defense each week.

Introduction- Rob- We’re back with episode 31 of Self-Defense Gun Stories.  This podcast is part of the Self-Defense Radio Network.  I’m Rob Morse and I’m joined this week by self-defense instructor Robyn Street.  How have you been, Robyn?Robyn Street

Robyn – Hi, Rob.  

Hi to our new listeners, and welcome back to our regular listeners. Together, we report and analyze examples of armed civilian defense.  We inform you about the news, and I hope we inspire you to defend the people you love.

Our first story took place this month in Florida.

First story-  Are you ready to protect the people you love at home after dark?  Three men broke into a home in Port Richey, Florida just before 9 at night.  At least one of the three robbers was armed.  The armed robber pointed a gun at the male homeowner and ordered him to the ground.  The robbers then went through the man’s pockets.  The female homeowner went to her bedroom and retrieved her gun.  She returned to the living room where her husband was being held face down on the floor.  She told the robbers not to move.  The armed robber turned toward the armed homeowner and she shot the robber once in the shoulder.  All three robbers ran.  The male homeowner tackled the armed robber as he was leaving.  The homeowner and a neighbor held the wounded robber until police arrived.

Robyn – Illusion of being “safe” at home.  

Robyn – She had to go to the bedroom to get her firearm.  

Rob- I’d ask our listener to conduct an experiment and time themselves.  You have to do this safely without pointing a loaded gun at your family.  If you have a gun for self-defense, then set your cell phone in the middle of your house and start it timing.  Go from the middle of your house and get your gun.  Make it ready to fire.  Then, walk quickly back to your cell phone and read the time.

Robyn- You could do this with dummy ammunition rather than live rounds.

Robyn – We train couples to consider splitting apart.  

Robyn – she shot him in the shoulder

Robyn – she had no duty to tell them not to move

Robyn – husband chased the robbers as they were running away.

Robyn – Our second story took place in Kentucky.

Second Story-  If your teeenagers are old enough to be left alone, are they old enough to have access to your firearms?  A sixteen year old boy heard someone in his house Saturday morning.  He wondered if it was his sister who usually works weekends.  Then the teenager heard the intruder’s voice, and it definitely was not his sister.  The teenager grabbed his gun.  He looked out his bedroom door into the hallway and saw an intruder with a knife.  The teenager told the intruder to drop the knife.  The armed intruder said, “No.”  That is when the armed teen pointed his gun at the intruder.

The intruder backed up, dropped the knife, and ran.  The teen called police.  Police were already familiar with the intruder.  This looks like a case of mistaken identity in a drug deal gone wrong.

Robyn – This brings up a question that we often hear…How old is old enough to train children about firearms.

Robyn – The teenager grabbed his gun. You would have to check state law to find out what the requirements are to determine if the teenager should have had access to the gun.

Rob- there is a difference between a found gun and a gun they handle under supervision.

Robyn –  The teenager told him to drop the knife … NO … he pointed the gun at him and he ran away.

Rob-What happens next?

Robyn – After the event it is so important to be the first one to call the police.

Robyn – The intruder mistakenly thought he was involved in a drug deal gone wrong.

Robyn- Our third story took place in Illinois.

acldn-logo

Armed Citizen Legal Defense Network at https://armedcitizensnetwork.org/  The tracking code is 15625 or “Paul Lathrop.

Third story-  Are you armed in your car?  A concealed carry holder in Granite City, Illinois dropped off a friend late at night after work.  One report says the driver was in the car.  A second report says the two men were standing next to the car when a stranger walked up to them.  The stranger presented a gun and announced a robbery.  The concealed carry holder drew his firearm and shot the robber.  This is where the news reports start dropping details.  We do know that the local prosecuting attorney praised the victims for defending themselves.

Robyn- If you are in a car and you can get away.  Get away!

Robyn- If he was outside of his car (second report), he needed to be using his situational awareness skills.  

Robyn- Evidently all the prior material had failed.  The driver had a gun pointed at him.  

Rob- Why was the victim justified in using lethal force?

Robyn- Get insured.

Exit-  Rob- That wraps up this episode. Robyn, thank you for helping me today.  Where can our listeners find out more about you?

Robyn –  I teach in Naples Florida, and our listeners can find me at Step by Step Gun Training.com  and on Facebook.  We design custom training as well as offer standard group classes.

Rob- events

Rob- Our listeners can share their thoughts with us by leaving a message on the podcast facebook page.  

Robyn – If these examples inspired you, then please share them with a friend and give us a rating on I-Tunes.

I’m Rob Morse.  Please join us next week for more Self-Defense Gun Stories.

BFF MASTER RGB

Buckeye Firearms Foundation at https://www.buckeyefirearmsfoundation.org/

Episode 30 with Ben Branam

Welcome to episode 30 of Self-Defense Gun Stories. We report and analyze examples of armed civilian defense each week.

Introduction- Rob- We’re back with episode 30 of Self-Defense Gun Stories.  This podcast is now part of the Self-Defense Radio Network.  I’m Rob Morse and I’m joined this week by my friend and self-defense instructor Ben Branam.

Ben Branam

Ben- Hi, Rob.  Hi to our new listeners, and welcome back to our regular listeners. Together, we report and analyze examples of armed civilian defense.  We inform you about the news, and I hope we inspire you to defend the people you love.  Our first story took place last month in Georgia.

Rob- first story-  Are you armed at home? There was a long running police record of trouble between the homeowner’s daughter and her daughter’s boyfriend.  This time the trouble escalated just before 8 pm.  The ex- boyfriend was visiting the home located just outside Savannah.  The couple argued.  The ex-boyfriend struck the daughter on the side and on the head.  The homeowner tried to stop him and was pushed to the ground.  The boyfriend broke the homeowner’s phone as she tried to call police.  The daughter ran to her mother’s bedroom.  The boyfriend followed and threatened the daughter with a carpet knife.  He later tried to cut her.  The homeowner secured her firearm from a drawer and shot the attacker once.  That ended the attacks.  The homeowner then successfully called police.

Ben- Gun on her person.  Immediate harm. Sever threat. Lethal intent.  You need to establish your own security before calling the police.

Rob- Do restraining orders work?

Ben- Cut ties and ask everyone for help.

Rob- I wonder if the ex-boyfriend would have attacked the women if they were both armed.

Ben- Our second story took place last month in Pennsylvania.

Second Story-  Should you open the door to strangers?  A homeowner in Reade township heard a loud knock at his door at 10:30 pm.  A stranger on his front porch said he needed help because of an accident with an off road vehicle.  The homeowner cracked the door open and handed the stranger his cell phone.  The stranger pushed the door open and attacked the homeowner.  The homeowner was on his back when he un-holstered his handgun and shot his attacker.  The homeowner then called police.  The police took all the homeowner’s firearms.  The police are continuing their investigation.  There was another person in the home, but reports are unclear if they saw the incident.

Ben- It isn’t clear why the police pursued the investigation.  Don’t you wish you had surveillance video to prove your innocence?  It is going to cost the homeowner tens  of thousands of dollars to clear himself.

Rob- I’m glad the homeowner was armed.  What should he have done differently?

Ben- Offer to call for them, but don’t open the door.  

Our third story took place in Tennessee.

SAF orgThe Second Amendment Foundation SAF.org  https://www.saf.org/

Third story-  Are you armed at work?  A clerk was working at a small convenience store outside Knoxville.  The clerk saw a man in a ski mask walk up to the customer waiting in line to pay for her purchases.  The masked man drew a knife and held the knife against the woman’s throat.  He then demanded the money from the cash register.  The robber was holding the woman as a hostage.

The clerk drew his firearm and pointed it at the robber.  The robber backed up and used the female customer as a shield.  The robber ran from the scene on foot.  The customer was upset but not physically injured.  The clerk called the police.

Ben- An intruder wearing a mask in the summertime is a pretty good clue that something has gone wrong.

Exit-  Rob- That wraps up this episode. Thank you, Ben, for helping me today.  Where can our listeners learn more about you?

Ben-  I live in San Antonio, Texas.  I do some traveling as I teach classes, but most of them are in the San Antonio area.  Our listeners can contact me at Modern Self Protection .com  to see my class schedule and my podcast.

Rob- Our listeners can share their thoughts with us by leaving a message on the podcast facebook page.  

Ben- If these examples inspired you, then please share them with a friend and give us a rating on I-Tunes.

I’m Rob Morse.  Please join us next week for more Self-Defense Gun Stories.
Gun Freedom Radio

Listen to Gun Freedom Radio  http://gunfreedomradio.com

Episode 29 with Amber Kunau

Welcome to episode 29 of Self-Defense Gun Stories. We report and analyze examples of armed civilian defense each week.

Introduction-  Rob- We’re back with episode 29 of Self-Defense Gun Stories.  Self-Defense Gun Stories is part of the Self-Defense Radio Network.  I’m Rob Morse and I’m joined this week by self-defense instructor Amber Kunau. Amber shoulder

Amber- Hi, Rob.  Hi to our new listeners, and welcome back to our regular listeners. Together, we report and analyze examples of armed civilian defense.  We bring you the news, and I hope we inspire you to defend the people you love.  Our first story took place last week in Tennessee.

First story- Can you defend yourself in your bedroom?  A couple in Sevierville, TN were asleep in their upstairs bedroom.  A noise woke them up.  They called 911 at about 5 in the morning and said an intruder was inside their home after breaking in the front door.

The homeowner armed himself with a handgun and told the intruder that law enforcement had been called, then warned the intruder not to come up the stairs to the bedroom.

The intruder came upstairs before the police arrived.  The intruder pointed a gun at the homeowner, and the only then did the homeowner draw and point his gun at the intruder.  The homeowner told the intruder to get down on the ground and not to move.  The intruder did.

The intruder was in possession of methamphetamine and drug paraphernalia when he was arrested.  The intruder was charged with aggravated assault, especially aggravated burglary, unlawful possession of a weapon by a convicted felon, gun possession during a violent felony and narcotic possession.  The intruder remains in the County jail.

Amber-  The homeowner used verbal commands before he drew a gun.

Typical because no shots fired.

Extraordinary because the homeowner had every reason to shoot.

The druggie said someone was after him.  Perhaps the druggie was too confused to be a threat, but you can’t know that when someone points a gun at you after breaking into your home.

The homeowner had a gun and he didn’t have time to go to the study and get a gun from the safe.

Rob- Better doors?

Amber- Better doors for your front door and bedroom would have bought the homeowner and the police more time to respond. Maybe he was so hopped-up on drugs he was better able to bust the doors down.  Get quality training too.

Our second story took place last week in Houston, Texas.

Second Story-  Are you armed when you are working in the back yard?  A young homeowner was standing in the backyard of his home at 8 in the evening.  The homeowner was armed and had received his concealed carry license four months ago.  The homeowner and his dad were standing there talking to each other when they noticed two young teenagers walk through the neighborhood several times.  The two teens then came down the driveway toward the two men.

The two teens pointed a gun at the homeowner and his dad.  The homeowner shot seven times before the teens turned away.  The homeowner called the police.

One of the attackers died at the scene.  The second ran home before asking for medical help.  

The homeowner said, “The first teenager pulls out his firearm and points it directly at us.  I didn’t let him finish talking. My first reaction was to take out my gun and open fire.  I didn’t want him to die, but oh well. He asked for it.”  The homeowner did not know the teenagers.

Amber-  Don’t talk like that when you are interviewed by the police.

Would you believe your eyes if a teenager pointed a gun at you?  You would if you were aware of crime in your area.

You and your family are looking death in the eye.  It is time to act right now.  You have no time to do anything but be a victim unless you’re armed.  You don’t have time to call for help.  You don’t have time to shout for your wife or husband.  The problem is immediate and lethal.

If you are not carrying a gun, then what are you going to do?  What is your plan if you’re unarmed?  You are betting your life that a teenage robber wants to leave you alive.

I want you to have better options.  This man and his family are alive because he defended himself.

Amber- Our third story took place last week near Lindale, Ohio.

SAF orgThe Second Amendment Foundation SAF.org  https://www.saf.org/

Third story- Are you armed when you go shopping?  A family dollar store was packed with shoppers buying back-to-school supplies.  The parking lot and nearby intersection were busy at 3 in the afternoon.  A man left the store and then was approached by an armed robber.  The robber fired first, then the victim drew his own gun and fired back.  Both men fired their guns several times.  The victim wasn’t hit, but the robber was.  Fortunately, none of the bystanders were struck.

The robber was shot in the head.  That stopped the gunfight.  It is unclear if the robber fell to the ground immediately or was captured nearby by policer.  Medical technicians took the robber to the hospital in critical condition.  The victim was not charged.  Police are looking at surveillance video.

Amber- You can’t talk your way out of an armed robbery.  You can’t negotiate when someone points a gun at you.  You have to move, present your firearm, and hit your target to stop the threat.  That is exactly what this man did.  He is alive today because of it.

Let me say that again.

  • Recognize the threat and be committed to saving your own life.
  • Move and present your firearm.  If you want to throw down your wallet as a distraction and back up with your hands spread, that is fine, but it doesn’t stop the threat.
  • Shoot until the threat stops.
  • Move to ensure your own security.
  • Call for police.

Explain you’re the victim, and then be quiet until you have a lawyer.

Rob- Law enforcement is happy to prosecute you even if you’re innocent.  All the prosecutor needs need is a convincing story, so don’t give the police the story to use against you.

Amber- That self-control comes with practice.  I want our listeners to practice the entire scope of self-defense all the way through, from recognizing a threat, all the way to talking to the police.  I’d rather that you were exposed to all of it than be an expert in one area and clueless about the others.  Be a well rounded student of self-defense.

You must also be sure of yourself because a gun fight endangers other people if you miss.

Rob- Now that you say it that way, there is plenty to learn.

Amber- That way it never becomes boring.

Exit-  Rob- That wraps up this episode. Amber, thank you for helping me today.  Where can our listeners learn more about you?

Amber- I instruct and compete in Phoenix, Arizona.  Listeners can contact me at Instructor Amber K on Facebook  

Rob- Our listeners can share their thoughts with us by leaving a message on the podcast facebook page.

Amber- If these examples inspired you, then please share them with a friend.

Rob- You know you can automatically download the podcasts so they appear on your phone each week?

Amber- That is how I listen, and please give us a rating on I-Tunes so other people will find us.

Rob- I’m Rob Morse.  Please join us next week for more Self-Defense Gun Stories.

CPRC_web

Please support the Crime Prevention Research Center at Crime Research.org

Episode 27 with Tony Simon

Welcome to episode 27 of Self-Defense Gun Stories. We report and analyze examples of armed civilian defense each week.

Introduction-  Rob- We’re back with episode 27 of Self-Defense Gun Stories.  I’m Rob Morse and I’m joined this week by self-defense instructor Tony Simon.Tony Simon

Tony- Hi, Rob.  Hi to our new listeners, and welcome back to our regular listeners. Together, we report and analyze examples of armed civilian defense.  We inform you about the news, and inspire you to defend the people you love.  Our first story took place last month in Ohio.

First story- Bring a knife to a gunfight.  A Youngstown homeowner heard a thief breaking into cars in front of his house.  The thief was breaking into the homeowner’s car when the homeowner came out and told the robber to stop.  The robber drew a knife and threatened the homeowner.  The homeowner drew his gun and shot the thief.  The thief ran.  The homeowner called the police and remained at the scene.

Tony, was this gun owner’s life in danger?

Tony- The homeowner wasn’t endangered while inside of the home, they put themselves in danger by becoming involved in an armed confrontation over a car.  Having a gun in a knife fight doesn’t guarantee the gun owner won’t sustain a life threatening injury. If no life is in danger don’t turn a robbery into a life and death situation. Call the police and be a good witness.

Our second story took place in Arizona

Second Story- Bringing a Hammer to a Gunfight  An employee left a store in Tempe Arizona at about 7 in the evening.  A man approached the employee and threatened him with a hammer before he hit him.  That is when the employee drew his firearm and shot his attacker one time in the chest.  The robber stopped hitting the employee and the employee stopped shooting his attacker.  The victim remained at the scene.  It isn’t clear who called police.

EMTs transported the robber.  The victim had injuries consistent with being the victim.

Tony- Avoid getting hit. Win the race to the phone. You have to talk to the police to establish your innocence.. And then shut up.

Tony- Our last story took place in Kentucky

 

SAF orgThe Second Amendment Foundation SAF.org  https://www.saf.org/

Third story-  Bringing your mom to a gunfight.  A large armed man walked into a corner market and demanded money.  The clerk grabbed a shotgun they keep behind the counter and shot the intruder.  The wounded robber ran, but did not seek treatment at a local hospital.  The surveillance video confirms the clerk’s story and that the robber was struck by the shotgun pellets.  The store was robbed earlier this year.  That time it was the clerk’s mother who was robbed of $600 dollars.

A shotgun?

Tony- A shotgun is a great home defense tool and it is just as good for defense of your business.  Your goal is to end the threat as quickly as possible, and shotguns bring much more power than a handgun with multiple projectiles per trigger pull.

Action is faster than reaction. Just because you are behind the curve doesn’t mean the fight is over.

Your defensive tools have to be near by, not across the room, not in a safe, not in the back office. It would have been much better if both clerks were carrying concealed so they could defend each other.  The same is true at for home invasions as well.

Don’t have established ideas of what your fight will look like, that will slow your reaction time.  Have a plan, take in new information, use it accordingly and have confidence in your tools and skill set to fight you way to victory.

Exit-  Rob- That wraps up this episode. Thank you, Tony for helping me today.  Where can our listeners learn more about you?

Tony- I teach firearms safety and armed-self defense courses in New Jersey.  Our listeners can contact me on Facebook at Simon Says Train or at The Second is for Everyone and SimonSaysTrain on Instagram.

Rob- Our listeners can share their thoughts with us by leaving a message on the podcast facebook page.  

Tony- If you like these examples then please share them with a friend and give us a rating on I-Tunes.

I’m Rob Morse.  Please join us next week for more Self-Defense Gun Stories.

Gun Freedom Radio

Listen to Gun Freedom Radio  http://gunfreedomradio.com

Episode 26 with Jenna Meek

Welcome to episode 26 of Self-Defense Gun Stories. We report and analyze examples of armed civilian defense each week.

Introduction- Rob- Welcome to episode 26 of Self-Defense Gun Stories.  I’m Rob Morse.  This week I’m joined by self-defense instructor Jenna Meek.  Hi Jenna.

Jenna Meek

Jenna- Hi, Rob.  Hi to our new listeners, and welcome back to our regular listeners. Together, we report and analyze examples of armed civilian defense.  We inform you about the news, and inspire you to defend the people you love.  Our first story took place last month in Pennsylvania.

First story-  A Pittsburgh, homeowner heard glass breaking at 2AM.  The homeowner grabbed his gun and walked toward the sound.  He saw two robbers in his kitchen and yelled for them to leave.  The two robbers left the way they had come, through his kitchen window and back down a fire escape.  No shots were fired.

Jenna- Not a lethal force incident, so no shots fired.

Also, good for the homeowner for reacting.  We don’t believe the first sound we hear.  We listen for confirmation.  Don’t lay there in bed when you hear a sound.  Grab your gun.  Grab your flashlight.  Grab your phone and grab your family.

Sleep inertia makes us idiots.  That is why you want to have the reaction routine committed to practiced memory.  If you have a gun for self-defense, then please practice getting your gun, your light, your phone and your family in the daylight.  Rehearse it as you would a fire drill.

Please do me a favor and learn to use a flashlight with your firearm. It is way too easy to get your support hand in front of your gun.  Work these things out with an instructor in the daylight.

Rob- What is the proportion of your students who are interested in handgun as opposed to using a long gun for home defense?

Second Story-  A couple were house sitting for a friend while she was out of town.  The slept in the house at night.  One night, a stranger entered the home and then kicked in the bedroom door.  The man shot the intruder.  The intruder fled.  The house sitters called police.  They picked up the intruder nearby.  He was the ex-boyfriend of the homeowner.  He wounded intruder was taken to a local hospital for treatment of non-life threatening injuries.

Jenna-Flashlight, Low light, Gun near you, Cell phone.  Do you know your address so you can call the police?

SAF org

The Second Amendment Foundation SAF.org

Third story-  A delivery driver and his wife were delivering bread to a local market.  They walked out of the market to find someone taking bread from their truck.  The driver told the robber to stay back.  The robber put his hand into his pocket and walked towards the driver.  The driver presented his firearm and shot the robber.  The driver has his carry license and he called the police.  The police transported the robber to the hospital and to jail.  The police released the driver to finish his deliveries.

This isn’t about baked bread, is it.

Jenna- Threat to property vs threat to your live and your loved ones.

Know what to say to the police.

Know what not to say to the police.

Have a lawyer you can call.

Have you practiced drawing your gun so you know how much time and distance you need to stop a threat?  Is it 10 feet or is it 500 feet?  Do you know what that distance looks like?

Exit-  Rob- That wraps up this episode. Jenna Meek, thank you for helping me today.  Where can our listeners learn more about you?

Jenna-  Listeners can contact me Carry On Colorado Dot Com.  I also have my new book called “Calling the Shots” on Amazon.

Rob- Our listeners can share their thoughts with us by leaving a message on the podcast facebook page.  

Jenna- If these examples inspired you, then please share them with a friend and give us a rating on I-Tunes.

I’m Rob Morse.  Please join us next week for more Self-Defense Gun Stories.

CPRC_webPlease support the Crime Prevention Research Center at Crime Research.org

Episode 25 with Bob Mayne

Welcome to episode 25 of Self-Defense Gun Stories. We report and analyze examples of armed civilian defense each week.

Introduction- Rob- We’re back with episode 25 of Self-Defense Gun Stories.  I’m Rob Morse and I’m joined this week by self-defense instructor Bob Mayne.  Bob is a special guest, so this is a treat for me to have him with us.Bob Mayne

Bob- Hi, Rob.  Hi to our new listeners, and welcome back to our regular listeners. Together, we report and analyze examples of armed civilian defense.  We inform you about recent self-defense events, and I hope we inspire you to defend the people you love.  Our first story took place last week in Michigan.

First story- A man broke into a home it Lincoln, Michigan just after noon.  One resident told him to leave, but the intruder refused saying he had just killed a policeman down the road.  The resident called police.  The intruder entered room after room, until he forced his way into a bedroom, where the occupant shot the intruder.  Police arrived and took the intruder into custody.  He was wanted for violating his parole.  Police took the intruder to a hospital where he was treated for a non-life-threatening gunshot wound.  He is now in jail awaiting a hearing.

What do you see here, Bob.

Bob- Note that this took place in a home at noon.  That means it could take place anytime and anywhere.

The person with a gun stopped the threat.  The other person had to flee.

It would be great to have bare hand combat skills.

Toxicology report?

Our next story takes place just after midnight in Arizona.

Rob- Second Story- A small 23 year old woman was walking past a Glendale convenience store.  A man asked her for a cigarette.  The man then grabbed her and put a gun to her neck.  The robber said  ‘It’s loaded, don’t move.”  The young woman dropped her soda, drew her gun and shot her attacker.  She ran.  She then called the police from her home nearby.  Her attacker died at the scene.

Witnesses and the store surveillance cameras confirmed the woman’s account of the story.  The young woman said, I had to save my life, but I’m sorry the man died.

Bob, how did this woman survive?  She shot a man who already had a gun to her neck.

Bob- Explain action versus reaction.

Rob- what else do you see in this story.

Bob- Robbers use a question to get close to us.  

Disparity of force, since the woman weighed 85 pounds and was only 4 foot 11 tall.

We don’t know how close she lived to the convenience store, but we usually say don’t leave the scene and call police immediately.

Our third story takes place in North Carolina.

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Rob- Third story-  Criminals have to choose their victims wisely.  Some criminals fail this important career limiting capability.  A customer and a gun shop employee both noticed two strangers lurking outside Jim’s Gun Shop.  The shop is next to the owner’s home, and neither the owner nor the clerk were expecting two men wearing white masks at 4 in the afternoon.  The store clerk closed the front door, but couldn’t lock it before the two robbers pushed their way inside.  The clerk drew his gun and fired.  The two thieves ran.  It appears the clerk missed, since police neither found evidence of the bullet’s impact, nor did a criminal go to the hospital looking for treatment.

Bob- The criminal in our second story expected the small woman to be an easy victim.  The owner and employees are armed in of every gun shop I’ve visited.  I suspect these two criminals don’t buy their guns legally so they don’t visit guns shops very often.

Just because you carry a gun, or sell guns for that matter, doesn’t mean you know how to use them in self-defense.  I suppose you could learn to use a gun by being in lots of gunfights, but that is really dangerous and time consuming.  A better way to learn is to find an instructor who has studied what works and who also knows how to teach those techniques.  The clerk needs training and practice.  And gun shops should let you go armed inside.

Rob- Bob, what is the difference between instruction, training, and practice?

Bob- A teacher instructs you on the proper thing to do.

He trains you how to do it by asking you to demonstrate, and then correcting your mistakes.

You practice what you’ve learned so it is available automatically when you need to defend yourself.

Rob- So you can’t train yourself by watching YouTube videos?

Bob- No, but that can be good instruction.  I have several youtube videos up on my members page.  I’m really glad that so many new people are buying guns, and getting their carry permits.  I’m really glad they are getting training and then practicing what they’ve learned.

Exit-  Rob- That wraps up this episode. Bob Mayne, thank you for helping me today.  Where can our listeners learn more about you?

Amber- I instruct in the San Antonio area.  Your listeners can contact me at my website Handgun World.  They can also find my podcast there, and join the Shooter’s Club to see our videos.

Rob- Our listeners can share their thoughts with us by leaving a message on the podcast facebook page.  If these examples inspired you, then please share them with a friend and give us a rating on I-Tunes.

I’m Rob Morse.  Please join us next week for more Self-Defense Gun Stories.

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Episode 24 with Jeff Street

Welcome to episode 24 of Self-Defense Gun Stories. We report and analyze examples of armed civilian defense each week.

Introduction- Rob- We’re back with episode 24 of Self-Defense Gun Stories.  I’m Rob Morse with self-defense instructor Jeff Street.

Jeff Street

Jeff- Hi, Rob.  Hi to our new listeners, and welcome back to our regular listeners. Together, we report and analyze examples of armed civilian defense each week.  We want to inform you about the news, and inspire you to defend the people you love.  Our first story took place this month late at night in Detroit.

First story-  A 37 year old man stopped his car at a traffic light when he noticed the car next to him.  The passenger in that car had a gun.. And the gun was pointed at our 37 year old driver.  He was being carjacked.  The armed robber told the driver to get out of his car.  The victim did.  He waited for the robber to get out of his car as well.  That is when the victim drew his legally concealed firearm and shot the armed robber.  The robber and his driver fled.  The victim called police.

Jeff- There are a lot of details we don’t know here.  So we are going to give him the benefit of doubt, atta boy.  It says he got out of his car, but it does not say why he got out of his car.  If you are in your car when threatened and you can drive away then that is the best defense.   

A friend of mine was forced off the road in a road rage incident.  The driver of the other car got out and was pounding the windshield of my friends car with his fists.  My friend popped his car in reverse and made his escape.

Someone tried to carjack me once late at night. I was stopped at a red light with no other traffic at all.  My car doors were locked.  The suspect walked off the curb and started to reach for my door handle.  I looked in my rearview and saw no cars, so I backed up and away from the suspect.  He walked back to the curb.  I drove back to the light.  He walked back to my car. I backed up again. Finally the light turned green and I went home.

In our story, our armed defender got out of his car.  If he got out of the car when he could have driven away, then it might look to a prosecutor like a mutual combat situation.  This would be akin to 2 guys in a bar saying let’s go outside and settle this.

Rob-  What else can we do to avoid being a target when we drive.

Jeff- I try to stop so I can see the bottom of the rear wheels of the car in front of me.

That might aid in evasion.   Even if i was boxed in a tiny bit of reverse would change my shot angle to my advantage.   Honking the car horn may offer a distraction and draw witnesses or help.

We assume the armed defender was carrying his gun in a holster.  He was probably very close to the attacker when he had to present his firearm and shoot.  Carrying your gun in front of you, called appendix carry, offers the fastest draw.  There might be a better option.  If you carry your gun at your side then you could turn your body slightly and get your hand on your weapon before your attacker even knows  you’re drawing a gun.  

Then, our defender needs to get his gun up to eye level and make some some fight-ending shots.

Time is everything in this situation.  In the words of firearms instructor John Hearn “If you can make your opponent think about what you are doing to him instead of what he needs to do to you, then you have largely won the fight.”

Our second story took place near Atlanta, Georgia.

Second Story-  A couple were sleeping in their bed at 4 in the morning.  They heard a strange noise which woke them up.  The husband got out of bed and called the police.  He also retrieved his legally owned handgun.  The sounds grew louder, and the husband shot an intruder as the intruder climbed into their master bathroom through a second story window.  The intruder retreated the way he’d come.

Police did not find the intruder, but they saw the ladder the intruder used to get onto a first story roof.  The police found the intruder lying dead on the roof.  The victims did not know the intruder.

Jeff- Again without more details this one gets an atta boy.  We can do a little better by getting our handgun 1st  and calling 911 2nd.  Shot placement looks like it was good in that it quickly ended the fight.

This situation is common enough that we’ve learned to keep ladders in your garage not in your yard.

Let’s eliminate some really bad advice.  The perpetrator fell outside the window after being shot. The horrible advice is that if the perpetrator falls outside the window pull the body inside so that it will look like you shot them inside.  Wow!  Don’t do it.  Talk about tampering with evidence.

Rob- Gun store myth.  Mantle of innocence. Cops deal with liars all day long. Don’t be one.

Jeff- Our third story takes place early morning in Kentucky.

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Third story-  An elderly Kentucky homeowner heard a woman knocking on his front door and crying for help.  It was about 5 in the morning.   Even though this homeowner had just gotten out of bed, he was thinking already.  He had been robbed before, so this time he answered the door with his gun in hand.  As soon as he turned the doorknob, a young man pushed the door in and pointed his gun at the homeowner’s head.  The homeowner raised his gun and fired four shots.  The robber dropped to the ground and never moved.  The female decoy was also shot in the arm.  She fled.  The victim called police.  The decoy and the female getaway driver were arrested at the local hospital.

Jeff-  This is another go team moment.  I recommend a surveillance camera.  I have them and use them so I would have seen that there was more than 1 person outside.  Cameras are so cheap now.  If your camera is all of the sudden out of order don’t open the door.  Call 911 and yell through the door that the police are on the way.  Even when i’m expecting company I check the cameras before answering the door.  If I ever felt the need to answer the door for a stranger, my gun would already be in my hand.

Rob- Close quarters.  Dim light.  The door gets pushed in.  You have fractions of a second to see and recognize a gun and multiple attackers.  That is a lot to deal with.  If you’ve never thought about it happening to you then you won’t have time to solve it in the moment.  

Jeff- You have time to prepare today.  Yeah, this attack is typical and what we should expect.

Exit-  Rob- That wraps up this episode. Jeff Street, thank you for helping me today.  Where can our listeners learn more about you?

Jeff- I teach in Naples, Florida, and our listeners can find me at Step by Step Gun Training.com  We provide customized training as well as standard group classes.  You can also reach us by leaving a message on the podcast facebook page.  

Rob- You can also wish Jeff a Happy Birthday on our facebook page.  If you liked our discussion of the news, then please share our podcast with a friend and rate the podcast on I-Tunes.

I’m Rob Morse.  Please join us next week for more Self-Defense Gun Stories.

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Episode 23 with Robyn Street

Welcome to episode 23 of Self-Defense Gun Stories. We report and analyze examples of armed civilian defense each week.

Introduction- Rob- Welcome to episode 23 of Self-Defense Gun Stories.  I’m Rob Morse and I’m helped by firearms instructor Robyn Street.

Robyn Street

Robyn-  Hi, Rob.  Hello new listeners, and welcome back for our regular listeners.  Each week we report and analyze examples of civilian defense.  Our first example took place last week in North Carolina

First story-  Rob- A man walked into the Lumberton, North Carolina mini-mart at 11 pm.  The customer then presented a gun and pointed it at the store clerk’s head.  The thief demanded money.  What the thief didn’t see was another store employee.  This second employee saw a gun being pointed at the clerk’s head, and the employee presented a handgun of his own.  He shot the thief.  The thief ran.  Neither store employees nor customers were injured.  Police used a K-9 unit to find the thief a few blocks away hiding in some bushes.  The thief is in the hospital with life threatening injuries.

Robyn-  This one really points out the importance of training.

Rob- how so?

Robyn- First, for the clerk with the gun pointed at his head.  Knowledge of pre attack indicators might have prevented the thief from getting so close with his gun out.

Often clerks are told to give the thief what they are asking for.  The problem with that theory is that after you give the thief what he wants, you are still at his mercy.  The thief gets to decide is he wants to go ahead and hurt you.  Compliance does not guarantee safety.

The employee actually had the gun pointed at his head.  The clerk could have benefitted from disarm training.

Rob- it is hard for clerks to keep customers away from them.

Robyn- Thank goodness for the second employee.  He was prepared.  He had his pistol with him.  The thief had time to prepare and gather the tools that he was going to use in the robbery.  The employees had to react and they only had the tools that they were carrying with them at that particular moment.

The second employee had a gun and the training to use it.  He shot the thief but he did not injure the store employees or customers.  He had to be aware of the violent criminal actor and all of the innocent people in the store.  He obviously did a good job.

The final thing that they did right was to let the thief run away.  They let the police find him and deal with him.  When the threat of attack from the thief was no longer present they no longer had a reason for self-defense.

Rob- You mean they didn’t shoot at a running man or chase him outside the store?

Robyn-  Our next story took place in Leitchfield, Kentucky at 9:30 in the evening.

Second Story-  Rob-  A woman had taken out a restraining order on her ex-boyfriend.  Unfortunately, the boyfriend lived next door.  The woman’s court order was ineffective when her ex-boyfriend started pounding on her windows and doors.  The woman retrieved her pistol and called police.  The ex-boyfriend broke down her front door and walked inside.  The woman shot the intruder, and he ran.  The woman said she feared for her life and the life of her 11-year-old son, who was in the home at the time.  The ex-boyfriend’s criminal history includes burglary, rape, kidnapping and assault.

Robyn-  When seconds are all that you have the police are still minutes away.  It is not their fault.  We have to call for them.  They have to get dispatched and travel to our location.  We are our own first responders.  That is a very important mindset.

Rob- We are on our own.

Robyn- We are on our own until the police arrive.  Domestic violence is such a problem.  The victim obviously knew that her ex-boyfriend was potentially going to give her trouble.  She did the right thing by documenting her fear and getting a restraining order.  The problem with criminals and other bad guys is that they don’t respect the laws or restraining orders.

I am glad that she was prepared.  Rather than going to retrieve her pistol, I would have preferred that she had it with her.  You never know how long you will have to go get your self-defense tools.  I am glad that it worked out for her.

She said the she was in fear for her life.  Based on the fact that he was pounding on windows and broke down the front door and she knew about his criminal history of burglary, rape, kidnapping and assault.  I don’t blame her for fearing for her life, but I gotta wonder what she saw in this man to begin with.  Be careful of the company that you keep.

Rob- at least she can bring his history into evidence to explain her actions.

Robyn- I am glad the she called the police not only to get help on the way but to document the event.  911 calls are recorded and can be used as evidence if there is a trial.  If you call to get help keep that line open to document what occurs.  You can put the phone down if you have to but they are still recording.

Robyn-  Our third story took place near Louisville, Kentucky.

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SAF.org

Third story-  Rob-  A 65 year old man lived with an older man who owned the home.  The 65 year old heard noises outside the home and went to investigate.  He didn’t find anyone outside.  As he walked inside, he found a 39 year old man fighting with the older homeowner.  The 65 year old shot their younger attacker.  The attacker is in stable but serious condition at a hospital.   

Robyn- Don’t go looking for trouble.. Because you might find it.  What item outside the house was worth risking his personal safety?   When you hear noises secure yourself inside your home or whatever safe position is available.  This is the time that you make final preparations for a potential attack.  Call the police and let them investigate for you.  It would have been great if he would have had motion sensor lights or manually turned on the exterior lights.  Perhaps that might have helped persuade the attacker to leave.

Do whatever you can to make your home a hard target – lights, cameras, alarms etc.  If he would have had exterior cameras set up, he could have investigated without leaving the safety of his home.  Now is the time to make preparations like installing cameras and lights.  Then use it to your advantage to provide safety for you and your loved ones.  

Unfortunately that is not what this man decided to do.  He left the relative safety of his home and unfortunately he did not secure his house when he went outside to investigate the noises.   This allowed the much younger attacker to enter his home.  He returned to a disparity of force situation.  The older man would have every right to believe that the 39 year old attacker would be able to overpower them and hurt them.

The 65 year old man must have had his gun with him.  But shooting at two men fighting is not an easy task.  He had to make sure that he did not hurt the older man.  There is a lot of movement and the potential to hurt his friend.  I am glad that it worked out for him.

Rob- I’ve had some of that training, but it is too advanced for this show.

Robyn- It is important that our listeners know the training is out there.

We know that the attacker is in the hospital.  That means either after being shot he decided to leave the residence or he was unable to get away and the gentlemen called for the police and an ambulance.

We have to be prepared to deal with the possibility that the attacker may be in your house until help arrives.  How will you make sure that the attacker no longer poses a threat or that the attacker does not have accomplices in the area?

Now is the time to use stores like our self defense gun stories to help us mentally prepare for these situations.  We can learn from what happened to other people.  Going through these exercises helps us to determine  and fix weaknesses in our own self defense plan and opens our eyes to possibilities that we may not have considered.

 Thank you Rob for finding these stories each week and bringing them to our attention.

Exit- Rob- That wraps up this episode. Thank you for helping me today, Robyn.  Where can our listeners learn more about you?

Robyn- I teach in Naples Florida, and our listeners can find me at Step by Step Gun Training.com  and on Facebook.  We design custom training as well as offer standard group classes.

Rob- Our listeners can leave us a message on the podcast facebook page.

I’m Rob Morse.  Please join us next week for more Self-Defense Gun Stories.

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Episode 22 with David Cole

Welcome to episode 22 of Self-Defense Gun Stories. We report and analyze examples of armed civilian defense each week.

Introduction- Rob- Welcome to episode 22 of Self-Defense Gun Stories.  I’m Rob Morse and I’m helped this week by instructor David Cole.David Cole

David-  Hi, Rob.  Hello new listeners, and our regular listeners. Each week we report and analyze examples of civilian defense.  Our first example took place last week just south of Dallas, Texas.

First story-  Rob- A 26 year old man walked into a Waffle House restaurant carrying a rifle.  He robbed the store and the customers who were in the restaurant at 2 in the morning.  One customer was carrying concealed.  This customer expected his wife to join him at the restaurant any moment.  The customer followed the robber into the parking lot.  The customer shouted.  The robber turned and raised his rifle.  The customer shot the robber several times.  The robber dropped the rifle and collapsed on the pavement.  The robber is now on life support in a Dallas hospital.

David, I keep hearing that a person with a pistol is no match against a person with a rifle, so how did this happen?

David-  While a pistol may not be as effective as range increases, capabilities and limitations are much more a factor of the software…the person behind the gun…than the hardware. All things being equal, a rifle is going to be a more effective weapon than a pistol. But all things are rarely equal. In fact, Jeff Cooper’s “Combat Triad,” consists of marksmanship, gun handling, and mindset…the actual gun is not mentioned at all.

Rob- 2am.  Shooting by street lights.. And making hits on your attacker.

David-  Lighting is a big factor not just in being able to shoot accurately, but in being able to correctly identify a threat. In this case, it seems that there was enough available light, but as armed citizens, we shouldn’t depend on that.  Always carry a good source of white light, and incorporate it into your shooting practice.

Rob-  We normally tell people to let the criminal go and leave the arrest to the police.

David-  Correct. Normally, we would not want to follow a robber after the robbery has been completed and has left the area…that would be difficult to justify as self defense.  I do understand that in this case he was concerned that his wife might be arriving and was concerned for her safety. This is something that we had better be able to articulate when we are justifying a shooting.

Our next story took place in Kentucky

Second Story-  Rob- A homeowner in Brandenburg returned to his home and found a side door open and a storm door smashed.  Their security camera caught the entire robbery.  The robber shot the family dog, threw a knife at the dog, and then shot the dog again with an antique pistol the robber found in the home.  

The homeowner came through the door with his gun drawn.  The thief had a knife in his hands and the homeowner ordered him to the ground.  The thief complied, and was arrested by police.  

The thief was charged with burglary, theft by unlawful taking, receiving stolen property and animal cruelty.  The dog is recovering too.

Did this homeowner do the right thing?

David-  There’s a saying in training circles, “fortuitous outcomes reinforce poor tactics.”

Rob- you mean he was lucky.

Dave- In this case, while the outcome was positive, the homeowner did get lucky to a degree.

Unless there is a pressing reason to enter the home (other family members inside), a safer course of action would have been to stay outside and call the police. Searching a structure solo is very dangerous, and it could have ended very differently if the burglar was determined to fight.

Another concern…something to think about…is how to handle things when the police arrive.  We’re standing there with a gun out…we need to think about how we are going to avoid being shot ourselves by the police.

 

Our third story took place in Texas

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Third story-  Rob-  A 19 year old robber entered the convenience store in Lancaster Texas wearing gloves and with a mask over his face.  He put a bag on the counter and demanded the clerk hand over the money in the cash register.  The clerk grabbed the gun he keeps behind the counter and pointed it at the robber.  The robber pulled up his shirt and started to present a gun of his own.  That is when the clerk shot the robber once in the chest.  The robber collapsed at the door and was pronounced dead at a local hospital.

What if the clerk had been standing somewhere else, or if the robber had walked around the counter?

David- That’s an excellent point, and probably the biggest takeaway here. A gun under a counter (or in a nightstand, etc) is only useful if we are in a position to reach it. The BEST way to carry a defensive gun is to carry the defensive gun on your person. It would be understandable if in a state where guns are available, but carry permits are not, but this was in Texas. If you don’t have a permit and you can get one in your state, then get one…and then carry your gun.

Rob- I doubt the clerk had to use the sights on the gun.

Exit-  Rob- That wraps up this episode. Thank you for helping me today, David.  Where can our listeners learn more about you?

David- They can contact me at Aegis Solutions, and at Blackman with a Gun.

Rob- Our listeners can leave us a message on the podcast facebook page.

I’m Rob Morse.  Please join us next week for more Self-Defense Gun Stories.

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