Episode 27 with Tony Simon

Welcome to episode 27 of Self-Defense Gun Stories. We report and analyze examples of armed civilian defense each week.

Introduction-  Rob- We’re back with episode 27 of Self-Defense Gun Stories.  I’m Rob Morse and I’m joined this week by self-defense instructor Tony Simon.Tony Simon

Tony- Hi, Rob.  Hi to our new listeners, and welcome back to our regular listeners. Together, we report and analyze examples of armed civilian defense.  We inform you about the news, and inspire you to defend the people you love.  Our first story took place last month in Ohio.

First story- Bring a knife to a gunfight.  A Youngstown homeowner heard a thief breaking into cars in front of his house.  The thief was breaking into the homeowner’s car when the homeowner came out and told the robber to stop.  The robber drew a knife and threatened the homeowner.  The homeowner drew his gun and shot the thief.  The thief ran.  The homeowner called the police and remained at the scene.

Tony, was this gun owner’s life in danger?

Tony- The homeowner wasn’t endangered while inside of the home, they put themselves in danger by becoming involved in an armed confrontation over a car.  Having a gun in a knife fight doesn’t guarantee the gun owner won’t sustain a life threatening injury. If no life is in danger don’t turn a robbery into a life and death situation. Call the police and be a good witness.

Our second story took place in Arizona

Second Story- Bringing a Hammer to a Gunfight  An employee left a store in Tempe Arizona at about 7 in the evening.  A man approached the employee and threatened him with a hammer before he hit him.  That is when the employee drew his firearm and shot his attacker one time in the chest.  The robber stopped hitting the employee and the employee stopped shooting his attacker.  The victim remained at the scene.  It isn’t clear who called police.

EMTs transported the robber.  The victim had injuries consistent with being the victim.

Tony- Avoid getting hit. Win the race to the phone. You have to talk to the police to establish your innocence.. And then shut up.

Tony- Our last story took place in Kentucky

 

SAF orgThe Second Amendment Foundation SAF.org  https://www.saf.org/

Third story-  Bringing your mom to a gunfight.  A large armed man walked into a corner market and demanded money.  The clerk grabbed a shotgun they keep behind the counter and shot the intruder.  The wounded robber ran, but did not seek treatment at a local hospital.  The surveillance video confirms the clerk’s story and that the robber was struck by the shotgun pellets.  The store was robbed earlier this year.  That time it was the clerk’s mother who was robbed of $600 dollars.

A shotgun?

Tony- A shotgun is a great home defense tool and it is just as good for defense of your business.  Your goal is to end the threat as quickly as possible, and shotguns bring much more power than a handgun with multiple projectiles per trigger pull.

Action is faster than reaction. Just because you are behind the curve doesn’t mean the fight is over.

Your defensive tools have to be near by, not across the room, not in a safe, not in the back office. It would have been much better if both clerks were carrying concealed so they could defend each other.  The same is true at for home invasions as well.

Don’t have established ideas of what your fight will look like, that will slow your reaction time.  Have a plan, take in new information, use it accordingly and have confidence in your tools and skill set to fight you way to victory.

Exit-  Rob- That wraps up this episode. Thank you, Tony for helping me today.  Where can our listeners learn more about you?

Tony- I teach firearms safety and armed-self defense courses in New Jersey.  Our listeners can contact me on Facebook at Simon Says Train or at The Second is for Everyone and SimonSaysTrain on Instagram.

Rob- Our listeners can share their thoughts with us by leaving a message on the podcast facebook page.  

Tony- If you like these examples then please share them with a friend and give us a rating on I-Tunes.

I’m Rob Morse.  Please join us next week for more Self-Defense Gun Stories.

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Episode 26 with Jenna Meek

Welcome to episode 26 of Self-Defense Gun Stories. We report and analyze examples of armed civilian defense each week.

Introduction- Rob- Welcome to episode 26 of Self-Defense Gun Stories.  I’m Rob Morse.  This week I’m joined by self-defense instructor Jenna Meek.  Hi Jenna.

Jenna Meek

Jenna- Hi, Rob.  Hi to our new listeners, and welcome back to our regular listeners. Together, we report and analyze examples of armed civilian defense.  We inform you about the news, and inspire you to defend the people you love.  Our first story took place last month in Pennsylvania.

First story-  A Pittsburgh, homeowner heard glass breaking at 2AM.  The homeowner grabbed his gun and walked toward the sound.  He saw two robbers in his kitchen and yelled for them to leave.  The two robbers left the way they had come, through his kitchen window and back down a fire escape.  No shots were fired.

Jenna- Not a lethal force incident, so no shots fired.

Also, good for the homeowner for reacting.  We don’t believe the first sound we hear.  We listen for confirmation.  Don’t lay there in bed when you hear a sound.  Grab your gun.  Grab your flashlight.  Grab your phone and grab your family.

Sleep inertia makes us idiots.  That is why you want to have the reaction routine committed to practiced memory.  If you have a gun for self-defense, then please practice getting your gun, your light, your phone and your family in the daylight.  Rehearse it as you would a fire drill.

Please do me a favor and learn to use a flashlight with your firearm. It is way too easy to get your support hand in front of your gun.  Work these things out with an instructor in the daylight.

Rob- What is the proportion of your students who are interested in handgun as opposed to using a long gun for home defense?

Second Story-  A couple were house sitting for a friend while she was out of town.  The slept in the house at night.  One night, a stranger entered the home and then kicked in the bedroom door.  The man shot the intruder.  The intruder fled.  The house sitters called police.  They picked up the intruder nearby.  He was the ex-boyfriend of the homeowner.  He wounded intruder was taken to a local hospital for treatment of non-life threatening injuries.

Jenna-Flashlight, Low light, Gun near you, Cell phone.  Do you know your address so you can call the police?

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The Second Amendment Foundation SAF.org

Third story-  A delivery driver and his wife were delivering bread to a local market.  They walked out of the market to find someone taking bread from their truck.  The driver told the robber to stay back.  The robber put his hand into his pocket and walked towards the driver.  The driver presented his firearm and shot the robber.  The driver has his carry license and he called the police.  The police transported the robber to the hospital and to jail.  The police released the driver to finish his deliveries.

This isn’t about baked bread, is it.

Jenna- Threat to property vs threat to your live and your loved ones.

Know what to say to the police.

Know what not to say to the police.

Have a lawyer you can call.

Have you practiced drawing your gun so you know how much time and distance you need to stop a threat?  Is it 10 feet or is it 500 feet?  Do you know what that distance looks like?

Exit-  Rob- That wraps up this episode. Jenna Meek, thank you for helping me today.  Where can our listeners learn more about you?

Jenna-  Listeners can contact me Carry On Colorado Dot Com.  I also have my new book called “Calling the Shots” on Amazon.

Rob- Our listeners can share their thoughts with us by leaving a message on the podcast facebook page.  

Jenna- If these examples inspired you, then please share them with a friend and give us a rating on I-Tunes.

I’m Rob Morse.  Please join us next week for more Self-Defense Gun Stories.

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Episode 25 with Bob Mayne

Welcome to episode 25 of Self-Defense Gun Stories. We report and analyze examples of armed civilian defense each week.

Introduction- Rob- We’re back with episode 25 of Self-Defense Gun Stories.  I’m Rob Morse and I’m joined this week by self-defense instructor Bob Mayne.  Bob is a special guest, so this is a treat for me to have him with us.Bob Mayne

Bob- Hi, Rob.  Hi to our new listeners, and welcome back to our regular listeners. Together, we report and analyze examples of armed civilian defense.  We inform you about recent self-defense events, and I hope we inspire you to defend the people you love.  Our first story took place last week in Michigan.

First story- A man broke into a home it Lincoln, Michigan just after noon.  One resident told him to leave, but the intruder refused saying he had just killed a policeman down the road.  The resident called police.  The intruder entered room after room, until he forced his way into a bedroom, where the occupant shot the intruder.  Police arrived and took the intruder into custody.  He was wanted for violating his parole.  Police took the intruder to a hospital where he was treated for a non-life-threatening gunshot wound.  He is now in jail awaiting a hearing.

What do you see here, Bob.

Bob- Note that this took place in a home at noon.  That means it could take place anytime and anywhere.

The person with a gun stopped the threat.  The other person had to flee.

It would be great to have bare hand combat skills.

Toxicology report?

Our next story takes place just after midnight in Arizona.

Rob- Second Story- A small 23 year old woman was walking past a Glendale convenience store.  A man asked her for a cigarette.  The man then grabbed her and put a gun to her neck.  The robber said  ‘It’s loaded, don’t move.”  The young woman dropped her soda, drew her gun and shot her attacker.  She ran.  She then called the police from her home nearby.  Her attacker died at the scene.

Witnesses and the store surveillance cameras confirmed the woman’s account of the story.  The young woman said, I had to save my life, but I’m sorry the man died.

Bob, how did this woman survive?  She shot a man who already had a gun to her neck.

Bob- Explain action versus reaction.

Rob- what else do you see in this story.

Bob- Robbers use a question to get close to us.  

Disparity of force, since the woman weighed 85 pounds and was only 4 foot 11 tall.

We don’t know how close she lived to the convenience store, but we usually say don’t leave the scene and call police immediately.

Our third story takes place in North Carolina.

SAF orgThe Second Amendment Foundation SAF.org

Rob- Third story-  Criminals have to choose their victims wisely.  Some criminals fail this important career limiting capability.  A customer and a gun shop employee both noticed two strangers lurking outside Jim’s Gun Shop.  The shop is next to the owner’s home, and neither the owner nor the clerk were expecting two men wearing white masks at 4 in the afternoon.  The store clerk closed the front door, but couldn’t lock it before the two robbers pushed their way inside.  The clerk drew his gun and fired.  The two thieves ran.  It appears the clerk missed, since police neither found evidence of the bullet’s impact, nor did a criminal go to the hospital looking for treatment.

Bob- The criminal in our second story expected the small woman to be an easy victim.  The owner and employees are armed in of every gun shop I’ve visited.  I suspect these two criminals don’t buy their guns legally so they don’t visit guns shops very often.

Just because you carry a gun, or sell guns for that matter, doesn’t mean you know how to use them in self-defense.  I suppose you could learn to use a gun by being in lots of gunfights, but that is really dangerous and time consuming.  A better way to learn is to find an instructor who has studied what works and who also knows how to teach those techniques.  The clerk needs training and practice.  And gun shops should let you go armed inside.

Rob- Bob, what is the difference between instruction, training, and practice?

Bob- A teacher instructs you on the proper thing to do.

He trains you how to do it by asking you to demonstrate, and then correcting your mistakes.

You practice what you’ve learned so it is available automatically when you need to defend yourself.

Rob- So you can’t train yourself by watching YouTube videos?

Bob- No, but that can be good instruction.  I have several youtube videos up on my members page.  I’m really glad that so many new people are buying guns, and getting their carry permits.  I’m really glad they are getting training and then practicing what they’ve learned.

Exit-  Rob- That wraps up this episode. Bob Mayne, thank you for helping me today.  Where can our listeners learn more about you?

Amber- I instruct in the San Antonio area.  Your listeners can contact me at my website Handgun World.  They can also find my podcast there, and join the Shooter’s Club to see our videos.

Rob- Our listeners can share their thoughts with us by leaving a message on the podcast facebook page.  If these examples inspired you, then please share them with a friend and give us a rating on I-Tunes.

I’m Rob Morse.  Please join us next week for more Self-Defense Gun Stories.

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Episode 24 with Jeff Street

Welcome to episode 24 of Self-Defense Gun Stories. We report and analyze examples of armed civilian defense each week.

Introduction- Rob- We’re back with episode 24 of Self-Defense Gun Stories.  I’m Rob Morse with self-defense instructor Jeff Street.

Jeff Street

Jeff- Hi, Rob.  Hi to our new listeners, and welcome back to our regular listeners. Together, we report and analyze examples of armed civilian defense each week.  We want to inform you about the news, and inspire you to defend the people you love.  Our first story took place this month late at night in Detroit.

First story-  A 37 year old man stopped his car at a traffic light when he noticed the car next to him.  The passenger in that car had a gun.. And the gun was pointed at our 37 year old driver.  He was being carjacked.  The armed robber told the driver to get out of his car.  The victim did.  He waited for the robber to get out of his car as well.  That is when the victim drew his legally concealed firearm and shot the armed robber.  The robber and his driver fled.  The victim called police.

Jeff- There are a lot of details we don’t know here.  So we are going to give him the benefit of doubt, atta boy.  It says he got out of his car, but it does not say why he got out of his car.  If you are in your car when threatened and you can drive away then that is the best defense.   

A friend of mine was forced off the road in a road rage incident.  The driver of the other car got out and was pounding the windshield of my friends car with his fists.  My friend popped his car in reverse and made his escape.

Someone tried to carjack me once late at night. I was stopped at a red light with no other traffic at all.  My car doors were locked.  The suspect walked off the curb and started to reach for my door handle.  I looked in my rearview and saw no cars, so I backed up and away from the suspect.  He walked back to the curb.  I drove back to the light.  He walked back to my car. I backed up again. Finally the light turned green and I went home.

In our story, our armed defender got out of his car.  If he got out of the car when he could have driven away, then it might look to a prosecutor like a mutual combat situation.  This would be akin to 2 guys in a bar saying let’s go outside and settle this.

Rob-  What else can we do to avoid being a target when we drive.

Jeff- I try to stop so I can see the bottom of the rear wheels of the car in front of me.

That might aid in evasion.   Even if i was boxed in a tiny bit of reverse would change my shot angle to my advantage.   Honking the car horn may offer a distraction and draw witnesses or help.

We assume the armed defender was carrying his gun in a holster.  He was probably very close to the attacker when he had to present his firearm and shoot.  Carrying your gun in front of you, called appendix carry, offers the fastest draw.  There might be a better option.  If you carry your gun at your side then you could turn your body slightly and get your hand on your weapon before your attacker even knows  you’re drawing a gun.  

Then, our defender needs to get his gun up to eye level and make some some fight-ending shots.

Time is everything in this situation.  In the words of firearms instructor John Hearn “If you can make your opponent think about what you are doing to him instead of what he needs to do to you, then you have largely won the fight.”

Our second story took place near Atlanta, Georgia.

Second Story-  A couple were sleeping in their bed at 4 in the morning.  They heard a strange noise which woke them up.  The husband got out of bed and called the police.  He also retrieved his legally owned handgun.  The sounds grew louder, and the husband shot an intruder as the intruder climbed into their master bathroom through a second story window.  The intruder retreated the way he’d come.

Police did not find the intruder, but they saw the ladder the intruder used to get onto a first story roof.  The police found the intruder lying dead on the roof.  The victims did not know the intruder.

Jeff- Again without more details this one gets an atta boy.  We can do a little better by getting our handgun 1st  and calling 911 2nd.  Shot placement looks like it was good in that it quickly ended the fight.

This situation is common enough that we’ve learned to keep ladders in your garage not in your yard.

Let’s eliminate some really bad advice.  The perpetrator fell outside the window after being shot. The horrible advice is that if the perpetrator falls outside the window pull the body inside so that it will look like you shot them inside.  Wow!  Don’t do it.  Talk about tampering with evidence.

Rob- Gun store myth.  Mantle of innocence. Cops deal with liars all day long. Don’t be one.

Jeff- Our third story takes place early morning in Kentucky.

SAF orgThe Second Amendment Foundation SAF.org

Third story-  An elderly Kentucky homeowner heard a woman knocking on his front door and crying for help.  It was about 5 in the morning.   Even though this homeowner had just gotten out of bed, he was thinking already.  He had been robbed before, so this time he answered the door with his gun in hand.  As soon as he turned the doorknob, a young man pushed the door in and pointed his gun at the homeowner’s head.  The homeowner raised his gun and fired four shots.  The robber dropped to the ground and never moved.  The female decoy was also shot in the arm.  She fled.  The victim called police.  The decoy and the female getaway driver were arrested at the local hospital.

Jeff-  This is another go team moment.  I recommend a surveillance camera.  I have them and use them so I would have seen that there was more than 1 person outside.  Cameras are so cheap now.  If your camera is all of the sudden out of order don’t open the door.  Call 911 and yell through the door that the police are on the way.  Even when i’m expecting company I check the cameras before answering the door.  If I ever felt the need to answer the door for a stranger, my gun would already be in my hand.

Rob- Close quarters.  Dim light.  The door gets pushed in.  You have fractions of a second to see and recognize a gun and multiple attackers.  That is a lot to deal with.  If you’ve never thought about it happening to you then you won’t have time to solve it in the moment.  

Jeff- You have time to prepare today.  Yeah, this attack is typical and what we should expect.

Exit-  Rob- That wraps up this episode. Jeff Street, thank you for helping me today.  Where can our listeners learn more about you?

Jeff- I teach in Naples, Florida, and our listeners can find me at Step by Step Gun Training.com  We provide customized training as well as standard group classes.  You can also reach us by leaving a message on the podcast facebook page.  

Rob- You can also wish Jeff a Happy Birthday on our facebook page.  If you liked our discussion of the news, then please share our podcast with a friend and rate the podcast on I-Tunes.

I’m Rob Morse.  Please join us next week for more Self-Defense Gun Stories.

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Episode 23 with Robyn Street

Welcome to episode 23 of Self-Defense Gun Stories. We report and analyze examples of armed civilian defense each week.

Introduction- Rob- Welcome to episode 23 of Self-Defense Gun Stories.  I’m Rob Morse and I’m helped by firearms instructor Robyn Street.

Robyn Street

Robyn-  Hi, Rob.  Hello new listeners, and welcome back for our regular listeners.  Each week we report and analyze examples of civilian defense.  Our first example took place last week in North Carolina

First story-  Rob- A man walked into the Lumberton, North Carolina mini-mart at 11 pm.  The customer then presented a gun and pointed it at the store clerk’s head.  The thief demanded money.  What the thief didn’t see was another store employee.  This second employee saw a gun being pointed at the clerk’s head, and the employee presented a handgun of his own.  He shot the thief.  The thief ran.  Neither store employees nor customers were injured.  Police used a K-9 unit to find the thief a few blocks away hiding in some bushes.  The thief is in the hospital with life threatening injuries.

Robyn-  This one really points out the importance of training.

Rob- how so?

Robyn- First, for the clerk with the gun pointed at his head.  Knowledge of pre attack indicators might have prevented the thief from getting so close with his gun out.

Often clerks are told to give the thief what they are asking for.  The problem with that theory is that after you give the thief what he wants, you are still at his mercy.  The thief gets to decide is he wants to go ahead and hurt you.  Compliance does not guarantee safety.

The employee actually had the gun pointed at his head.  The clerk could have benefitted from disarm training.

Rob- it is hard for clerks to keep customers away from them.

Robyn- Thank goodness for the second employee.  He was prepared.  He had his pistol with him.  The thief had time to prepare and gather the tools that he was going to use in the robbery.  The employees had to react and they only had the tools that they were carrying with them at that particular moment.

The second employee had a gun and the training to use it.  He shot the thief but he did not injure the store employees or customers.  He had to be aware of the violent criminal actor and all of the innocent people in the store.  He obviously did a good job.

The final thing that they did right was to let the thief run away.  They let the police find him and deal with him.  When the threat of attack from the thief was no longer present they no longer had a reason for self-defense.

Rob- You mean they didn’t shoot at a running man or chase him outside the store?

Robyn-  Our next story took place in Leitchfield, Kentucky at 9:30 in the evening.

Second Story-  Rob-  A woman had taken out a restraining order on her ex-boyfriend.  Unfortunately, the boyfriend lived next door.  The woman’s court order was ineffective when her ex-boyfriend started pounding on her windows and doors.  The woman retrieved her pistol and called police.  The ex-boyfriend broke down her front door and walked inside.  The woman shot the intruder, and he ran.  The woman said she feared for her life and the life of her 11-year-old son, who was in the home at the time.  The ex-boyfriend’s criminal history includes burglary, rape, kidnapping and assault.

Robyn-  When seconds are all that you have the police are still minutes away.  It is not their fault.  We have to call for them.  They have to get dispatched and travel to our location.  We are our own first responders.  That is a very important mindset.

Rob- We are on our own.

Robyn- We are on our own until the police arrive.  Domestic violence is such a problem.  The victim obviously knew that her ex-boyfriend was potentially going to give her trouble.  She did the right thing by documenting her fear and getting a restraining order.  The problem with criminals and other bad guys is that they don’t respect the laws or restraining orders.

I am glad that she was prepared.  Rather than going to retrieve her pistol, I would have preferred that she had it with her.  You never know how long you will have to go get your self-defense tools.  I am glad that it worked out for her.

She said the she was in fear for her life.  Based on the fact that he was pounding on windows and broke down the front door and she knew about his criminal history of burglary, rape, kidnapping and assault.  I don’t blame her for fearing for her life, but I gotta wonder what she saw in this man to begin with.  Be careful of the company that you keep.

Rob- at least she can bring his history into evidence to explain her actions.

Robyn- I am glad the she called the police not only to get help on the way but to document the event.  911 calls are recorded and can be used as evidence if there is a trial.  If you call to get help keep that line open to document what occurs.  You can put the phone down if you have to but they are still recording.

Robyn-  Our third story took place near Louisville, Kentucky.

SAF org

Second Amendment Foundation

SAF.org

Third story-  Rob-  A 65 year old man lived with an older man who owned the home.  The 65 year old heard noises outside the home and went to investigate.  He didn’t find anyone outside.  As he walked inside, he found a 39 year old man fighting with the older homeowner.  The 65 year old shot their younger attacker.  The attacker is in stable but serious condition at a hospital.   

Robyn- Don’t go looking for trouble.. Because you might find it.  What item outside the house was worth risking his personal safety?   When you hear noises secure yourself inside your home or whatever safe position is available.  This is the time that you make final preparations for a potential attack.  Call the police and let them investigate for you.  It would have been great if he would have had motion sensor lights or manually turned on the exterior lights.  Perhaps that might have helped persuade the attacker to leave.

Do whatever you can to make your home a hard target – lights, cameras, alarms etc.  If he would have had exterior cameras set up, he could have investigated without leaving the safety of his home.  Now is the time to make preparations like installing cameras and lights.  Then use it to your advantage to provide safety for you and your loved ones.  

Unfortunately that is not what this man decided to do.  He left the relative safety of his home and unfortunately he did not secure his house when he went outside to investigate the noises.   This allowed the much younger attacker to enter his home.  He returned to a disparity of force situation.  The older man would have every right to believe that the 39 year old attacker would be able to overpower them and hurt them.

The 65 year old man must have had his gun with him.  But shooting at two men fighting is not an easy task.  He had to make sure that he did not hurt the older man.  There is a lot of movement and the potential to hurt his friend.  I am glad that it worked out for him.

Rob- I’ve had some of that training, but it is too advanced for this show.

Robyn- It is important that our listeners know the training is out there.

We know that the attacker is in the hospital.  That means either after being shot he decided to leave the residence or he was unable to get away and the gentlemen called for the police and an ambulance.

We have to be prepared to deal with the possibility that the attacker may be in your house until help arrives.  How will you make sure that the attacker no longer poses a threat or that the attacker does not have accomplices in the area?

Now is the time to use stores like our self defense gun stories to help us mentally prepare for these situations.  We can learn from what happened to other people.  Going through these exercises helps us to determine  and fix weaknesses in our own self defense plan and opens our eyes to possibilities that we may not have considered.

 Thank you Rob for finding these stories each week and bringing them to our attention.

Exit- Rob- That wraps up this episode. Thank you for helping me today, Robyn.  Where can our listeners learn more about you?

Robyn- I teach in Naples Florida, and our listeners can find me at Step by Step Gun Training.com  and on Facebook.  We design custom training as well as offer standard group classes.

Rob- Our listeners can leave us a message on the podcast facebook page.

I’m Rob Morse.  Please join us next week for more Self-Defense Gun Stories.

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Episode 22 with David Cole

Welcome to episode 22 of Self-Defense Gun Stories. We report and analyze examples of armed civilian defense each week.

Introduction- Rob- Welcome to episode 22 of Self-Defense Gun Stories.  I’m Rob Morse and I’m helped this week by instructor David Cole.David Cole

David-  Hi, Rob.  Hello new listeners, and our regular listeners. Each week we report and analyze examples of civilian defense.  Our first example took place last week just south of Dallas, Texas.

First story-  Rob- A 26 year old man walked into a Waffle House restaurant carrying a rifle.  He robbed the store and the customers who were in the restaurant at 2 in the morning.  One customer was carrying concealed.  This customer expected his wife to join him at the restaurant any moment.  The customer followed the robber into the parking lot.  The customer shouted.  The robber turned and raised his rifle.  The customer shot the robber several times.  The robber dropped the rifle and collapsed on the pavement.  The robber is now on life support in a Dallas hospital.

David, I keep hearing that a person with a pistol is no match against a person with a rifle, so how did this happen?

David-  While a pistol may not be as effective as range increases, capabilities and limitations are much more a factor of the software…the person behind the gun…than the hardware. All things being equal, a rifle is going to be a more effective weapon than a pistol. But all things are rarely equal. In fact, Jeff Cooper’s “Combat Triad,” consists of marksmanship, gun handling, and mindset…the actual gun is not mentioned at all.

Rob- 2am.  Shooting by street lights.. And making hits on your attacker.

David-  Lighting is a big factor not just in being able to shoot accurately, but in being able to correctly identify a threat. In this case, it seems that there was enough available light, but as armed citizens, we shouldn’t depend on that.  Always carry a good source of white light, and incorporate it into your shooting practice.

Rob-  We normally tell people to let the criminal go and leave the arrest to the police.

David-  Correct. Normally, we would not want to follow a robber after the robbery has been completed and has left the area…that would be difficult to justify as self defense.  I do understand that in this case he was concerned that his wife might be arriving and was concerned for her safety. This is something that we had better be able to articulate when we are justifying a shooting.

Our next story took place in Kentucky

Second Story-  Rob- A homeowner in Brandenburg returned to his home and found a side door open and a storm door smashed.  Their security camera caught the entire robbery.  The robber shot the family dog, threw a knife at the dog, and then shot the dog again with an antique pistol the robber found in the home.  

The homeowner came through the door with his gun drawn.  The thief had a knife in his hands and the homeowner ordered him to the ground.  The thief complied, and was arrested by police.  

The thief was charged with burglary, theft by unlawful taking, receiving stolen property and animal cruelty.  The dog is recovering too.

Did this homeowner do the right thing?

David-  There’s a saying in training circles, “fortuitous outcomes reinforce poor tactics.”

Rob- you mean he was lucky.

Dave- In this case, while the outcome was positive, the homeowner did get lucky to a degree.

Unless there is a pressing reason to enter the home (other family members inside), a safer course of action would have been to stay outside and call the police. Searching a structure solo is very dangerous, and it could have ended very differently if the burglar was determined to fight.

Another concern…something to think about…is how to handle things when the police arrive.  We’re standing there with a gun out…we need to think about how we are going to avoid being shot ourselves by the police.

 

Our third story took place in Texas

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Third story-  Rob-  A 19 year old robber entered the convenience store in Lancaster Texas wearing gloves and with a mask over his face.  He put a bag on the counter and demanded the clerk hand over the money in the cash register.  The clerk grabbed the gun he keeps behind the counter and pointed it at the robber.  The robber pulled up his shirt and started to present a gun of his own.  That is when the clerk shot the robber once in the chest.  The robber collapsed at the door and was pronounced dead at a local hospital.

What if the clerk had been standing somewhere else, or if the robber had walked around the counter?

David- That’s an excellent point, and probably the biggest takeaway here. A gun under a counter (or in a nightstand, etc) is only useful if we are in a position to reach it. The BEST way to carry a defensive gun is to carry the defensive gun on your person. It would be understandable if in a state where guns are available, but carry permits are not, but this was in Texas. If you don’t have a permit and you can get one in your state, then get one…and then carry your gun.

Rob- I doubt the clerk had to use the sights on the gun.

Exit-  Rob- That wraps up this episode. Thank you for helping me today, David.  Where can our listeners learn more about you?

David- They can contact me at Aegis Solutions, and at Blackman with a Gun.

Rob- Our listeners can leave us a message on the podcast facebook page.

I’m Rob Morse.  Please join us next week for more Self-Defense Gun Stories.

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Episode 21 with Tatiana Whitlock

Welcome to episode 21 of Self-Defense Gun Stories. We report and analyze examples of armed civilian defense each week.

Introduction- Rob- Welcome to episode 21 of Self-Defense Gun Stories.  I’m Rob Morse and I’m helped this week by instructor Tatiana Whitlock.

Tatiana Whitlock 2Tatiana-  Hi, Rob.  Hello new listeners, and our regular listeners. Each week we report and analyze examples of civilian defense.  Our first example took place last week in Atlanta, Georgia.

First story-  Rob- A father and son were working together in their jewelry store at about 2 pm..  A man walked into Cachet Fine Jewelry and said he wanted to make a 70 thousand dollars purchase.  The store owners were suspicious since the man didn’t look like the usual person who might buy jewelry of that price.  The store owners also recognized the man since he’d walked past the shop and looked inside several times earlier in the day.  No other customers were in the store when this customer pulled out a firearm, pointed it at the older store owner, and demanded the two store owners “Put all the jewelry in the bag.”  The son saw the robber’s gun pointed at his father.  The young man presented his own handgun and fired three times.  He struck the robber in the neck.  The robber ran outside the store before he collapsed on the street.  Witnesses said a woman was waiting in a getaway car.  EMTs transported the robber to a local hospital where he was pronounced dead.

Tatiana, how many of your students say they’ll get their firearm if they are threatened?

Tatiana-  The vast majority of students I work with are motivated to learn about firearms for personal protection. About 50% are in the beginning phases of learning what it would take technically, physically, and emotionally use a gun when threatened. The other 50% are actively carrying concealed every day and I am VERY encouraged to see that percentage growing with each new class.

Rob- What do you say to them to convince them to carry all the time?

Tatiana-  So many people have their permit, have invested in a firearm, but have yet to incorporate it into their daily lives. They are just not “COMFORTABLE” with the logistics and lifestyle changes that are necessary to make carrying a firearm as natural a part of your day-to-day routine as carrying your cell phone. Alternately, many people have a common “I don’t think I could do it. I would freeze!” attitude. But when asked if they would defend their child the answer is a resounding, “YES! WITHOUT HESITATION!” The key thing I tell students that is a mindset game changer for making carrying a gun ALL THE TIME a reality is: That YOU BELONG TO SOMEONE. You are a parent, a child, a friend, a spouse. You BELONG to them 100% of the time whether they are with you are not.  You are NOT expendable. You are NOT replaceable. For me? I am a mother of two beautiful children that are 6 and 7 years old. I belong to them.  NO ONE  has the right to take me from them, to take me from this world, but GOD.  Accept that fact and the value of your life, of your role in a much bigger picture, your will and drive to protect it is no longer in question. Suddenly the nuisance of holstering up every morning becomes a non-issue.

Rob- Which of your classes show a firearms owner how to present their pistol?

Tatiana-  While I love teaching the fundamentals, my passion is firearms use for self and home defense thus the majority of the classes I teach incorporate pistol presentation. Basic Handgun for Self Defense, Concealed Carry Essentials, Home Defense Handgun all work from the holster as well as real world “ready” positions. HOWEVER, presenting the pistol is NOT the first and MOST CRITICAL step. Learning Situational Awareness and threat assessment come first. WHAT IS HAPPENING? WHO IS MY PROBLEM?(Bad guy/good guy can you tell the difference) WHAT ARE MY OPTIONS?(avoid/evade/engage) WHERE IS THE SOLUTION (locate a way out/away, de-escalate if possible, engage IMMEDIATE LIFE THREATENING ATTACKER where and how). Training in REAL WORLD context means we MUST incorporate these elements into our pistol fundamentals training or these vital, life saving skills, will NOT be there when things go bad. And to hiccup when the moment presents itself, to fumble the draw when fractions of seconds count, could cost you or your loved one their life.

Rob- About how practice do these new gun owners need at home until their presentation starts to look smooth?

Tatiana-  Dry fire is the best way to keep your skills from getting “foggy”, slow, and to keep your movements from feeling clumsy.  The reps needed depend on how well the individual is training/practicing. Making your dryfire a weekly routine for about 10-15 minutes 2 to 3 times a week is idea. Otherwise, draw the blinds so you don’t panic the neighbors and in an ammo free living room, practice during the commercial breaks of your favorite show. The more GOOD, clean, and technically correct reps you can get in the better!

Our next story took place in Florida.

Second Story-  Rob- A Boynton Beach grandmother heard someone knock on her door just after noon.  She didn’t open the door.  She looked through the peephole but didn’t recognize the man.  He kept ringing the bell and baning on the door.  He came back a few minutes later wearing rubber gloves and with his shirt pulled over his head to hide his face.  Grandma ran to her bedroom and grabbed the gun she and her husband keep in a dresser beside their bed.  She stood near the door when three robbers broke down her front door and then walked into her bedroom.  Grandma had her gun pointed at the robber’s face as he came through the doorway.  She yelled.  He ran and his two partners followed him.

She does not know if the robbers were armed.  The two homeowners also intend to get a bigger gun and go to a shooting range to practice.

Tatiana, was grandma lucky?

Tatiana-  Yes, she is and she did exactly what she should have. She felt threatened, was clearly in a vulnerable state (age, physical fitness, etc.) and armed herself, took a position in a room she could control, announced herself and stood her ground. That being said a gun isn’t’ a magic charm. You need to know how to use it. These kinds of experiences are NOT the time to familiarize yourself with how your gun works. Those skills need to be there BEFORE the worst happens.

Rob- Was grandma’s life in danger and was she justified in shooting these three robbers?

Tatiana-  She only knew of one threatening person when she ran to her room. She was faced with THREE. Disparity of force would certainly apply here. She was hugely outnumbered. She felt threatened, acted appropriately, and her fears were confirmed. YES, she was absolutely in the right to fear for her life. Would they have covered their face if they thought no one was home? NO. They didn’t want to be recognizable upon entry so they had to know she was there. Not only did they enter masked, but they pursued her to her bedroom. Granny got her gun and I applaud her for her courage!

Our third story took place in South Carolina.

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Third story-  Rob- Most of us have heard about the mass murder at a Florida nightclub.  You might not have heard what happened last week at the Playoffz nightclub in Lyman, South Carolina.  Two men got into an argument at 3:30 in the morning.  The two men went outside, and one of them started shooting into the crowd standing outside the club.  The attacker hit three people.  He missed the fourth person, and this person standing in the crowd was armed.  He presented his handgun and shot back back.  His shots struck the attacker in the leg.  The attacker fell down and stopped shooting.

The scene was chaotic.  The police interviewed witnesses and had to look at surveillance video to sort the attacker from the defender.  The attacker was treated and booked into jail.  The three wounded victims are expected to recover, though some will require surgery.  The armed defender had a concealed carry permit and will not be charged.  The attacker was a convicted felon and had his gun illegally.

Tatiana, that is some shooting.

Tatiana- The response of the defending concealed carrier was absolutely appropriate. However, if we are making leg shots then we are falling victim to poor training and practice. Low left, anyone? A committed or inebriated/altered attacker WILL NOT STOP SHOOTING just because they have been hit once in the leg. Round placement to neutralize the attacking party does not happen in the extremities. He was lucky that  the leg shot was all it took and that there was not a continued exchange of gunfire. Next up: how many folks have trained to shoot their gun in low light or no light conditions? It’s a whole new world! How many folks have trained in a multi-day stress inducing program designed to push you to the point of what it would feel like to have to defend your life at 3am when you are physically tired in addition to being in the dark? Experiential training is a VITAL part of preparing yourself technically and mentally for this kind of VERY real and relevant type of attack.

Rob- How do we go out and keep ourselves safe at the same time?

Lastly, this is a GREAT example of how important it is especially given stories just like these to have a “Designated Carrier”. We have “Designated Drivers” to ensure those having a good time get home safely. Well folks, it’s time to seriously consider having that person also be a responsibly trained and legally armed Designated Carrier.
Exit- Rob- That wraps up this episode. Thank you for helping me today, Tatiana.  Where can our listeners learn more about you?

Tatiana- They can contact me at http://tatianawhitlock.com/, find availble courses at Ann Arbor Arms Academy, and at On Target Magazine and GunCulture.com

Rob- Our listeners can leave us a message on the podcast facebook page.

I’m Rob Morse.  Please join us next week for more Self-Defense Gun Stories.

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Episode 20 with Ben Branam

Welcome to episode 20 of Self-Defense Gun Stories. We report and analyze examples of armed civilian defense each week.

Ben BranamIntroduction-

Rob- Welcome to episode 20 of Self-Defense Gun Stories.  I’m Rob Morse with self-defense instructor Ben Branam.

Ben- Hi, Rob.  Hello to our new listeners, and welcome back to our regular listeners. We report and analyze examples of armed civilian defense each week.  Our first example took place last month in Oregon.

First story-  James Rorox was walking with his girlfriend.  They walked through Rose Garden Park in Eugene, Oregon.  The park was busy and crowded at mid-day.  A man jumped at the couple and threatened them with a knife.  The robber demanded their money.  The attacker moved closer, and Rorox didn’t reach for his wallet.  He pulled his handgun and the robber ran.  Rorox called the police who arrested the robber.

Ben- This story is the rule.  This is what usually happens when a good guy needs his gun.  A guy defended himself and his girlfriend without firing a shot, but here is an interesting perspective.  Some anti-rights groups would say this was not a defensive gun use since Rorox didn’t pull the trigger.  I say it is.

Rob- you don’t have to know how to present your firearm to have a ccw license, do you.

Ben, no, but you really need to know that skill.  Don’t try to learn how to present a firearm on your own.  It is too dangerous.  Please get training before you carry.

Ben- our next story is from Michigan.

Second Story-  This man wasn’t expecting trouble .. or company.. at 2 in the morning as he walked home in Detroit.  Four young men crossed the street and approached him.  The four thugs had just robbed a woman only an hour earlier.  This time they asked the man for gas money.  The man ignored them until they pulled out a gun and hit him in the back of the head with a baton.  The victim was a security guard.  He has his concealed carry license.  The victim was also armed.  He pulled out his own firearm and shot the armed robber several times.  All of the robbers ran, but one was arrested and is now in the hospital in serious but stable condition.

Ben- Four on one.  Late at night.  Attackers were prepared with weapons.  Practice your aim, because with four against one, you are outgunned even if only one of the robbers was armed.

Rob- shooting at close quarters, multiple moving targets, in the dark, while you are moving.  That is a far cry from standing in a lane shooting at paper targets at the range.

Ben- Yea, that takes some practice.

Rob- what do we need to practice?

Ben-?

Ben- our next story takes place in Illinois.

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Point Blank Range

Third story- A 28 year old man walked to his car just before midnight on Chcago’s north-west side.  Two teenagers walked up to him and told the man to give them his money.  The two teenagers had guns.  The 28 year old fought with the two teenagers, and then the victim presented his gun and shot the robbers.  The robbers fired back, but did not hit the victim.  One of the robbers was hit twice in the neck and was admitted to the hospital in critical condition.  The second robber is still being sought by chicago police.

Ben- Good on him for prevailing, but Alone, late at night, in Chicago.

Rob- was the victim justified?

Rob- When should you present a firearm?

Rob- What is the biggest hurdle for self-defense?

Ben- Mental preperation.  I bet the victim had heard of other people getting robbed in the area.  This victim wasn’t asking if this was really happening to him.  He recognized that he had to act.

Exit- Rob- That wraps up this episode. Ben, thank you for helping me today.  Where can our listeners learn more about you?

Ben- They can contact me at Modern Self Protection .com  to see my class schedule and my podcast.

Rob- Our listeners can share their comments on the podcast facebook page.

I’m Rob Morse.  Please join us next week for more Self-Defense Gun Stories.

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Episode 19 with Jenna Meek

Welcome to episode 19 of Self-Defense Gun Stories. We report and analyze examples of armed civilian defense each week.


Jenna MeekIntroduction-
 Rob- Welcome to episode 19 of Self-Defense Gun Stories.  I’m Rob Morse with self-defense instructor Jenna Meek.

Jenna- Hi, Rob.  Hi to our new listeners, and welcome back to our regular listeners. Together, we report and analyze examples of armed civilian defense each week.  Our first example took place this month in Albuquerque, New Mexico.

First story-  Several months ago, a young woman was deliberately hit in the head by her boyfriend.  Police issued a warrant for his arrest.  He was not arrested, and he continued to threaten the woman and her child.  The woman felt safer after she and her daughter moved in with her 76 year old father.

Early on a weekday morning last week, the ex-boyfriend broke out the family room window of their new home.  The ex-boyfriend was armed.  So was the woman’s father.  The father shot the armed intruder several times in the legs.  That stopped his advance.  The ex-boyfriend will be arrested when he is released from the hospital.

Jenna-  How long would it take you to get your gun at night?

Can you shoot accurately when it is dark and you can’t see your gunsights?

The next story takes place in Peoria, Arizona.

Second Story-  Two robbers came into a Peoria smoke shop at 5 in the evening.  One of the robbers was carrying a handgun and had his face covered with a bandana.  They demanded money from the cash register.  The store clerk was giving them the money when another store employee in a back room saw what was happening.  The second employee grabbed a gun and started firing.  Both robbers fled.  The robbers shot back, but no one was hit.

Jenna-  Can you shoot accurately and make your first shot count?

The next story takes place in Everett, Washington.

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Third story-  They had trouble before when the house in Everett, Washington had been burglarized and a firearm stolen.  This time, two masked and armed robbers kicked in the front door just before 5 in the morning.  The robbers held the residents at gunpoint and sprayed them with pepper spray.  A room mate heard the attack, and came out of his room with his gun drawn.  He saw his roommates held at gunpoint, and fired.  He killed one of the robbers, but the second robber escaped.

Jenna-  Again, how long would it take you to get your gun at night?  Can you shoot in the dark or the dim?

Do you have a solid bedroom door that would slow down an intruder?

Do you know the criminal history of your property?

Jenna- Rob, I think we’re confusing two different things with our stories this week, and I want our listeners to know the truth.  We should carry a gun where we are at risk.  We can be attacked anywhere and at anytime, but most people are attacked outside their home and at night.  We’re reporting our stories based on where most people are armed rather than where they are attacked.  Unfortunately, most people leave their guns at home.  I want them to carry all the time.

Exit- Rob- That wraps up this episode. Jenna, thank you for helping me today.  Where can our listeners learn more about you?

Jenna- Listeners can contact me Carry On Colorado Dot Com.  I also have my new book called “Calling the Shots” on Amazon.

Rob- Our listeners can share their thoughts on the podcast facebook page.

I’m Rob Morse.  Please join us next week for more Self-Defense Gun Stories.

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Episode 18 with Tony Simon

Welcome to episode 18 of Self-Defense Gun Stories. We report and analyze examples of armed civilian defense each week.

SelfDefenseGunStories_Header_v2-2Introduction– Rob- Welcome to episode 18 of Self-Defense Gun Stories.  I’m Rob Morse with self-defense instructor Tony Simon.

Tony- Hi, Rob.  Hi to our new listeners, and welcome back to our regular listeners. Together, we report and analyze examples of armed civilian defense each week.  Our first example took place last month in South Carolina.

First story-  A game store owner in Columbia was playing a videogame with a customer.  There were other customers in the store as well even though it was 9:30 in the morning.  Two robbers came into the store and one robber had his gun drawn.  They took money from the store.  The robbers turned their back on the store owner in order to rob other customers.   That gave the store owner a chance to draw his own firearm from his pocket and shoot the armed robbers.  Both robbers fled but were soon picked up by police.  The injured robber was taken to a local hospital

Tony-  This was at 9:30 in the morning with other people around.  The defender had to mind his shots because he didn’t want to shoot innocent customers.

Second Story-  A homeless woman living in Gainsville, Florida called police early in the evening.  One of the other homeless people in the encampment kept bothering her.  She was on the phone to the police dispatcher when she was attacked.  Police heard her yelling “get off me” before the call ended.  The homeless woman retrieved her firearm from her purse and then shot her attacker in the chest.  He died at the scene.  Witnesses say the woman acted in self-defense.

Tony-

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Third story-  A man in Dayton, Ohio was still lying in bed at 6 in the morning.  A burglar used a hammer to break through the homeowners back door.  By the time the homeowner was awake, the intruder was in his bedroom.  The homeowner grabbed his gun from his nightstand and shot the intruder.  The homeowner told police quote, “He said he had a gun and I shot him.”  The dead intruder was on probation after a conviction for aggravated burglary with a deadly weapon.

Tony-

Exit- Rob- That wraps up this episode. Tony, thank you for helping me today.  Where can our listeners learn more about you?

Tony- I teach firearms safety and armed-self defense courses in (what part of ) New Jersey.  Our listeners can contact me on Facebook at Simon Says Train or at The Second is for Everyone and SimonSaysTrain on Instagram.

Rob- Our listeners can leave us a message on the podcast facebook page.

I’m Rob Morse.  Please join us next week for more Self-Defense Gun Stories.

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